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Vulgarsty
12-08-2014, 22:10
These are not optimised for killiness and the Green knight is obviously excluded - ethereal, decent armour, a 5+ ward AND resurrection obviously makes for a fairly unkillable character.

Clearly all builds are situational, but I have set them against strikes from Halberd armed Chaos Warriors - common enough and a fair test of resilience (assuming they pass fear tests of course). Here are some thoughts

Anointed of Asuryan on Fire Phoenix, WS7, T3, W3, 510pts, Armour of Caledor (2+AS, 2+ fire ward), Dawnstone (re-roll AS), 4++ Ward, MR2 AND comes back to life on a 5+ with mount - 58 Blows to kill (just character, not mount)

Nurgle DP, WS9, T5, W4, 360 pts Scaled skin, Chaos Armour, Dawnstone (re-roll AS), 5++ ward, soul feeder - 144 blows to kill (nearly 7 CC phases from a horde of Khorne warriors - assuming Soul Feeder restores no wounds and all fear tests are passed)

So Nurgle DP is the winner (unless the Phoenix rider resurrects), getting decent armour, a re-roll and a decent ward are a key combo

SteveW
12-08-2014, 22:32
Savage orc warboss with the armor of gork, shield, mounted on a boar, in a unit with a shaman with lucky shrunken head.

thesoundofmusica
13-08-2014, 02:25
A dwarf lord on shieldbearers with a 4+ ward, 2+ armor save and runes of +1W and +2T will take 288 halberd warrior attacks to the face (on average rolls) before going down.

Alltaken
13-08-2014, 03:31
Archaon. The dwarf lord. Nurgle DP. Might fit the slan ethereal +2 ward against magic missiles (p) even, though he wont contend against the aformentioned.
Old blood sacred steg helm, 4++, luck stone on cold one 6T-4++-1 reroll for armor saves.

Wesser
13-08-2014, 05:52
Vlad Von Carstein

Any Wizard can cascade himself (including the DP), but DP can be targeted by say Waywatchers that can give him a hard time.

Having to kill a reasonably tough guy like Vlad twice seems uphill

TheSpid
13-08-2014, 05:56
Oldblood, glittering scales, cold one, dawnstone, 4++
1+ rerollable, 4++ and -1 to hit.
and he can kill stuff too with a gw 5 strength 7 attacks.
3 wounds * 2 (4+ ward) * 3 (1+-> 3+ armor)* 3 (armor rerollable) * 2 (4+ to wound) * 3 (5+ to hit) = 324 attacks to kill.


@thesoundofmuica: Your math appears wrong. 4 wounds * 2 (4+ ward) * 2 (2+ -> 4+ armor) * 6 (6s to wound) * 2 (4+ to hit) = 192.
Did i miss something?
EDIT: i did miss something... 2 more wounds from shieldbearers rights? 6 * 2 * 2 * 6 * 2 = 288.

Let's not forget that demon princes take more attacks than the smaller guys.

EDIT Again: OP did consider number of attacks. My oldblood suggestion would be 324 / 16 = 20.25 CC phases. Dwarf lord build would be 288 / 16 = 18 CC phases.

thesoundofmusica
13-08-2014, 09:10
How does the oldblood have glittering scales (armor), dawnstone (talisman) and a 4+ ward? I'm at work so could easily have missed something :)

Josfer
13-08-2014, 09:15
Can we agree to exclude ethereal from this "competition"?

And maybe even exclude any spell buffs be they from the character or a supporting character as well as magic items from a supporting unit? Or what should and shouldn't apply?


Oldblood, glittering scales, cold one, dawnstone, 4++
1+ rerollable, 4++ and -1 to hit.
How does he get 4++, glittering scales and dawnstone?

I suggest:
Chaos Lord, Mark of Tzeentch, Barded Demonic Mount, Armor of Destiny, Dawnstone, Third eye of Tzeentch, Scaled Skin, Soul Feeder, 25 magic items allowance left for mask of terrifying ee (if terror counts anything) or potion of toughness or ASF weapon if need be (given we don't fight CWs but some elves).
WS8 T5 W3 1+rr 3++rr1: 3*2*2*9*4,5=486
Given he doesn't regenerate health from soul feeder and terror doesn't help.

@Dwarf Lord: I'd suggest taking a Runelord on anvil instead. A shield and runes of parrying, fortitude, iron 2 and warding 3 makes him:
WS6 (-1 to hit) T7 W6 3+ 4++: 6*3*6*3/2*2=324
(too sad you can only take 3 armor runes, otherwise I'd take fortitude 2 and gromril instead of warding, which would reach 486 like the chaos lord)

On the other hand if you give the dwarf lord on shieldbearers with fortitude, iron 2 and warding 3 a shield you get:
WS7 T7 W6 1+ 4++: 6*2*6*3*2=432

thesoundofmusica
13-08-2014, 10:07
On the other hand if you give the dwarf lord on shieldbearers with fortitude, iron 2 and warding 3 a shield you get:
WS7 T7 W6 1+ 4++: 6*2*6*3*2=432

Ah of course the shield haha good catch! So used to defaulting to GW.

Josfer
13-08-2014, 10:46
Archaon is way off. He has -1 to hit, WS9 T5 W4 2+ 3++: 4*3*2*2*3=144
Vlad von Carstein and the savage orc boss too.

I'm curious if someone beats 500 ^^

If the enemy would be different, this could easily be done. The chaos lord could get to nearly 3000 against standard WS3- S3- attacks.
On the other hand a nurgle lord on foot with HW+shield, scaled skin, tricksters helm and dawnstone could get to:
WS8 T5rr W4 1+rr 6++: 4*6*36*36*6/5=37325 ^^
And have points allowance left for terror, I10, soul feeder and similar stuff.

Josfer
13-08-2014, 11:13
uhm... he`s only W3, so 27993

TheSpid
13-08-2014, 12:59
My bad. I always seem to think dawnstone is enchanted item.

Alltaken
13-08-2014, 13:50
Whats your calculations Josfer? How does the guo do? And how do we account shots here? Cannons mostly

Josfer
13-08-2014, 14:37
Whats your calculations Josfer?
Sorry, I have no clue what you ask.


How does the guo do?
-1 to hit WS6 T7 W6 5++: 6*3*6*3/2=162


And how do we account shots here? Cannons mostly
I guess we don't. Best build against cannons I can come up with would be thorgrim (0%), followed by a chaos lord with blessed shield and 3++rr1 (2%), followed by a dwarf on anything with runes of shielding and iron (3%), followed by a dwarf rune lord on anvil with rune of adamant and rune of warding 3 (5%), followed by a chaos lord with tricksters helmet and 3++rr1 (10%), followed by archaon (only be wounded on 3+ and 3+ ward save) (15%). The percentages are the probabilities to die after the first hit. If you get shot at multiple times, blessed shield is way worse.
The percentages to be hit in the first place are:
Thorgrim: 14% (W7)
Shielding&Iron: 14% (W6)
Tricksters&4+r1: 15% (W3)
Archaon: 22% (W3)
Adamant&Warding 3: 25% (W5)
Multiple Wounds D6 makes this really a mess to calculate.

Alltaken
13-08-2014, 14:40
Sorry, I have no clue what you ask.

Your making a factor out of stats, you were trying to find someone that got to 500, whats that calculation?

Josfer
13-08-2014, 14:47
Your making a factor out of stats, you were trying to find someone that got to 500, whats that calculation?
The calculation is how many WS5 S5 chaos warrior halberdier attacks are statistically needed to kill the model. It's number of wounds times attacks needed for a hit times hits needed for a wound times wounds needed to pass armor save times wounds needed to pass ward save.

For example:
"Archaon is way off. He has -1 to hit, WS9 T5 W4 2+ 3++: 4*3*2*2*3=144"
4 wounds, you need 3 attacks on 5+ for one hit, you need two hits on S5 to wound T5 on 4+, you need two wounds on S5 to "get through" 2+ armor save on 3- and you need three wounds to "get through" 3+ ward save on 2-. In total statistically Archaon dies to 144 chaos warrior halberdier attacks.

Alltaken
13-08-2014, 14:48
Thanks I wasnt sure if you considered shots and stuff

Josfer
13-08-2014, 14:50
I was just following the calculations in the first post (too disregarding soul feeder and fear/terror).

snyggejygge
13-08-2014, 16:15
How about Chaos Lord of Nurgle with Glittering Scales, scaly skin, mounted on a steed with barding & carrying a shield, as well as having Dawnstone, healing potion & Soul feeder? 1+ re-rollable armoursave, -2 to be hit & reganing wounds on a 6, can even get a cheap magic weapon & firebreathing to give him an easier time wounding his opponents (more wounds equals more regained wounds)


The calculation is how many WS5 S5 chaos warrior halberdier attacks are statistically needed to kill the model. It's number of wounds times attacks needed for a hit times hits needed for a wound times wounds needed to pass armor save times wounds needed to pass ward save.

For example:
"Archaon is way off. He has -1 to hit, WS9 T5 W4 2+ 3++: 4*3*2*2*3=144"
4 wounds, you need 3 attacks on 5+ for one hit, you need two hits on S5 to wound T5 on 4+, you need two wounds on S5 to "get through" 2+ armor save on 3- and you need three wounds to "get through" 3+ ward save on 2-. In total statistically Archaon dies to 144 chaos warrior halberdier attacks.

Sry for double post, but according to your calculation S5 is -3 to armour, it should be -2 & also Archaon has a 1+ save when mounted.

Josfer
13-08-2014, 18:48
Sry for double post, but according to your calculation S5 is -3 to armour, it should be -2 & also Archaon has a 1+ save when mounted.
Damnit, forgot the shield. Then it's 216. And with 3- I meant you need a 3 or less to get through the armor save. 2+ AS vs. S5 is 4+ AS -> wound with 3 or less.

@Nurgle CL: I calculated that and it doesn't get close to the tzeentch guy I posted (who also has soul feeder). 3*6*2*9=324

Vulgarsty
13-08-2014, 19:42
to (sort of) address snyggejygge (http://www.warseer.com/forums/member.php?32317-snyggejygge)'s post

A nurgle Lord on palanquin, WS8, T5, W4, Armour of destiny, shield, dawnstone, soul feeder, scaled skin, Nurgles Rot, sword of swift slaying (asf)-1 to hit, 1+ re-rollable, 4++ ward, 405 points.

Like I said, discounting fear and regaining wounds through soulfeeder (although I have given him offensive bits to cost him properly) it takes 432 WS5, S5 hits to kill him. A horde of Khorne halberdiers with champ, puts out 21 attacks S5 attacks per CC phase, 10 whole game turns later he will still be alive...

He is killed with 192 blows if you swap for glittering scales as although he is only hit on 6's, he then only has 2+ and no ward.

So I think Josfers Ttzeench lord on 486 wins. but I do wonder about the maths cos although the Nurgle lord has slightly worse ward (and doesn't re-roll ones) he is -1 to hit AND has an extra wound

Wesser
14-08-2014, 06:13
I still think Vlad has the edge

None of those calculations takes into account that he resurrects on a 2+, and can heal himself with his attacks and his spells


The game isn't math. The DP will likely keel over immediately to waywatchers or metal mages as will many of the other candidates. Those may be pretty specific, but the title of Unkillable probably don't apply to guys relying on an armour save.

Spid's Oldblood is a good example as my trusty Treeman showed him a few games back. Tree Whack and done

pinktaco
14-08-2014, 11:17
If WS5/S5 is the basis for our calculations then:
Oldblood, great weapon, cold one, armour of destiny, dawnstone (and potion of toughness).
Takes 225 attacks to die, a bit more with the potion.
No other OB builds are quite as good because dawnstone + AoD is superior to Steg helmet, glittering scales and what not.
At 251pts without the potion he's quite durable for his price.

pinktaco
14-08-2014, 11:19
I still think Vlad has the edge

None of those calculations takes into account that he resurrects on a 2+, and can heal himself with his attacks and his spells


The game isn't math. The DP will likely keel over immediately to waywatchers or metal mages as will many of the other candidates. Those may be pretty specific, but the title of Unkillable probably don't apply to guys relying on an armour save.

Spid's Oldblood is a good example as my trusty Treeman showed him a few games back. Tree Whack and done

How's the tree whack rule? D6 wounds only saved on an initiative test, no armour but ward?

Lord Shadowheart
14-08-2014, 12:07
How's the tree whack rule? D6 wounds only saved on an initiative test, no armour but ward?

Off the top of my head, you sacrifice all your attacks to make a single 10 attack, if it hits it does D6 wounds, ward save allowed. Initiative test was an old version of it I think, could be wrong though.

Josfer
14-08-2014, 12:36
So I think Josfers Ttzeench lord on 486 wins. but I do wonder about the maths cos although the Nurgle lord has slightly worse ward (and doesn't re-roll ones) he is -1 to hit AND has an extra wound
-1 to hit is 50% increase in attacks needed, a fourth wound is 33% increase. Together that's only times 2, while the "slightly worse ward" is 4.5/2 times worse so 2.25.


I still think Vlad has the edge
None of those calculations takes into account that he resurrects on a 2+, and can heal himself with his attacks
WS7 T5 W3 5+ 4++: 3*2*2*2=24
He resurrects on 2+ with one wound and with 5 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, passing armor on 6+, regenerating on 4+ that's not even one wound he recovers, so he dies after another 16 attacks AGAIN. And again and again and again. So he holds for about 5 rounds of combat facing 16 attacks aka 80 attacks resulting in his death after about 104 attacks.

The chaos lords can heal themselves too and with a great weapon wound on 2+ and face no armor save, but regenerate only on 6, so only 5/9 of a wound per turn, BUT a wound is worth 162 attacks, so that's about 90 attacks per turn... So even if you face hordes of lucky hysterical khorne chosen halberdiers (7 attacks per file) on all sides (on DM that's 10 files plus 2 files of non-horde so 82 attacks max) you statistically won't die.


and his spells
The chaos lord could be equally a chaos sorc lvl 4 metal with +2 to armor (glittering scales?) and -1 to hit.
A Nurgle sorcerer could take glittering scales and dawnstone, cast himself regeneration 5+ and woud gain +1T +1W until he has T10 W10 before getting killed.

And Vlad can't even go beyond W3, so he won't survive more than 24 attacks per turn anyways.

Oh and he's undead so crumbles if facing a unit with ranks, flanking, banners and stuff without support, right?

Wesser
14-08-2014, 13:26
-1 to hit is 50% increase in attacks needed, a fourth wound is 33% increase. Together that's only times 2, while the "slightly worse ward" is 4.5/2 times worse so 2.25.


WS7 T5 W3 5+ 4++: 3*2*2*2=24
He resurrects on 2+ with one wound and with 5 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, passing armor on 6+, regenerating on 4+ that's not even one wound he recovers, so he dies after another 16 attacks AGAIN. And again and again and again. So he holds for about 5 rounds of combat facing 16 attacks aka 80 attacks resulting in his death after about 104 attacks.

The chaos lords can heal themselves too and with a great weapon wound on 2+ and face no armor save, but regenerate only on 6, so only 5/9 of a wound per turn, BUT a wound is worth 162 attacks, so that's about 90 attacks per turn... So even if you face hordes of lucky hysterical khorne chosen halberdiers (7 attacks per file) on all sides (on DM that's 10 files plus 2 files of non-horde so 82 attacks max) you statistically won't die.


The chaos lord could be equally a chaos sorc lvl 4 metal with +2 to armor (glittering scales?) and -1 to hit.
A Nurgle sorcerer could take glittering scales and dawnstone, cast himself regeneration 5+ and woud gain +1T +1W until he has T10 W10 before getting killed.

And Vlad can't even go beyond W3, so he won't survive more than 24 attacks per turn anyways.

Oh and he's undead so crumbles if facing a unit with ranks, flanking, banners and stuff without support, right?

So?

You only got 6 turns in most games. Unless you get him killed and roll a 1' on his rez I'd say it's actually difficult to lose him twice. He probably won't even be in combat until Turn 3, so unless he keeps dancing in front of a pair of cannons I don't see how you can lose him entirely as he doesn't have to rez in the unit he died in.

Josfer
14-08-2014, 13:42
So?
You only got 6 turns in most games. Unless you get him killed and roll a 1' on his rez I'd say it's actually difficult to lose him twice. He probably won't even be in combat until Turn 3, so unless he keeps dancing in front of a pair of cannons I don't see how you can lose him entirely as he doesn't have to rez in the unit he died in.
Nearly everyone posted here will statistically survive (mostly way more than) 6 turns and we search for the "Most unkillable build" (see topic) by looking at extended games/comparing attacks needed. Did you even read the thread?
Yes he's "unkillable", but he is far from being the most unkillable in this thread.
@Cannons: He has a 5% chance to die from the first cannon hit (just to have this mentioned).

Bladelord
14-08-2014, 14:50
Jules the Jester wins this thread. He might only be a puny peasant with a single wound but that 2+ ward save makes him untouchable (screw statistics I go by experience).

Vulgarsty
14-08-2014, 18:35
So?

You only got 6 turns in most games. Unless you get him killed and roll a 1' on his rez I'd say it's actually difficult to lose him twice. He probably won't even be in combat until Turn 3, so unless he keeps dancing in front of a pair of cannons I don't see how you can lose him entirely as he doesn't have to rez in the unit he died in.

It's just an academic exercise, Ethereal and resurrection are discounted because they are so rare (most races get armour and wards for example), WS5 S5 was picked because it is a commonish opponent that tests both toughness and armour a bit

Wesser
15-08-2014, 05:41
Nearly everyone posted here will statistically survive (mostly way more than) 6 turns and we search for the "Most unkillable build" (see topic) by looking at extended games/comparing attacks needed. Did you even read the thread?
Yes he's "unkillable", but he is far from being the most unkillable in this thread.
@Cannons: He has a 5% chance to die from the first cannon hit (just to have this mentioned).

What's the use of academics if it have no practical value or validity?

The DP is actually fairly easy to nail and even Chaos Lords can fail "Characteristics Test or die spell". Vlad can come back from even that.


Surely Unkillable refers to the likelihood of said character being alive and kicking at the end? Not how many STR4 attacks he can survive.


Or was the point to rape Math with random stuff?

Josfer
15-08-2014, 06:54
What's the use of academics if it have no practical value or validity?
What's the use in you participating in a conversation not even understanding what it's about?

tneva82
15-08-2014, 07:02
Well he has point in that I would try to find what's the most unkillable overall. Ie which is THE hardest target you can find to kill with anything at your available. The one that makes you go "screw it. I ain't even trying to kill that one because it ain't worth it". Like the 40k model I got to face that would require literally over thousand attacks that wound him on 2+ to kill. The ones that require you basically gear your entire army to kill one.

Don't know enough about FB army books ATM to give my own version. But the T7 dwarf lord and vlad looks pretty icky. Though dwarf lord suffers from danger of breaking and running him down. That's one way to kill somebody as well so if I'm looking to create most unkillable model then I would make sure he won't be in danger of getting killed by being overran.

Josfer
15-08-2014, 07:13
Well he has point in that I would try to find what's the most unkillable overall.
Then maybe you should make your own thread and start a discussion about that there. I think it's hard to argue with such a broad viewpoint, because vlad needs a unit inside 12" to even be able to raise again in the first place, what's the chance of that? And what's the chance of the enemy having and getting of a test or die spell and the model in question failing it? For example the cannon shots are a small focus you can look at calculate and compare, I even included that into this discussion although it wasn't even a point.

But all of this is totally meta and kind of off topic

Wesser
15-08-2014, 13:55
It was you who turned it into a pseudo-math competition and generally going off-topic

Of course Vlad resist any attempt to math him due to rezzing within 12'

Math can only be used to analyze specific situations in a vacuum, so what use is math in determining "Unkillable"?

The DP for instance is horribly vulnerable to Waywatchers and other shooting that limits or ignores armour. Oldbloods don't like initiative tests.

"Unkillable" as such have to take into account weaknesses towards specific hard counters and math don't do that. I actually think math is detrimental unless OP was asking what the most unkillable is if you are facing WoC specifically for instance

snyggejygge
15-08-2014, 15:26
It was you who turned it into a pseudo-math competition and generally going off-topic

Of course Vlad resist any attempt to math him due to rezzing within 12'

Math can only be used to analyze specific situations in a vacuum, so what use is math in determining "Unkillable"?

The DP for instance is horribly vulnerable to Waywatchers and other shooting that limits or ignores armour. Oldbloods don't like initiative tests.

"Unkillable" as such have to take into account weaknesses towards specific hard counters and math don't do that. I actually think math is detrimental unless OP was asking what the most unkillable is if you are facing WoC specifically for instance

The starter of the thread was the one saying it should be faced off against Chaos Warriors with Halberds, & while Vlad is tough, I think you greatly overestimate him, Iīve killed him twice in Storm of Magic games & once in a normal game (permanently that is), but so far I have never lost my Battlestandardbearer with a 3+ ward, re-Rolling 1īs & having a decent 1+ save (2+ in combat), does that mean my cheap bsb is more survivable, maybe, in a vaccum yes, in a normal game, I guess about the same, both are models opponents usually never try to kill, since theyīre too tough. When looking at the toughest, mathhammer is your best bet, Vlad is quite tough to math out, but overall he isnīt as tough as other characters mentioned, especially since he canīt resurrect unless he has raised a unit of skellies, in which case you just kill the skellies & let Vlad die to CR....

Wesser
15-08-2014, 19:56
Team its a good build. Very boring and All that. But Ive had the satisfaction of severinog himmel fail a panik test and flere the field. But then again he is in every Woc army every time so eventually shift happens.

Josfer
15-08-2014, 22:27
It was you who turned it into a pseudo-math competition and generally going off-topic
Read the first post:

Clearly all builds are situational, but I have set them against strikes from Halberd armed Chaos Warriors - common enough and a fair test of resilience (assuming they pass fear tests of course). Here are some thoughts
Anointed of Asuryan on Fire Phoenix, WS7, T3, W3, 510pts, Armour of Caledor (2+AS, 2+ fire ward), Dawnstone (re-roll AS), 4++ Ward, MR2 AND comes back to life on a 5+ with mount - 58 Blows to kill (just character, not mount)
Nurgle DP, WS9, T5, W4, 360 pts Scaled skin, Chaos Armour, Dawnstone (re-roll AS), 5++ ward, soul feeder - 144 blows to kill (nearly 7 CC phases from a horde of Khorne warriors - assuming Soul Feeder restores no wounds and all fear tests are passed)
So Nurgle DP is the winner (unless the Phoenix rider resurrects), getting decent armour, a re-roll and a decent ward are a key combo
How is that not a pseudo-math competition? What did I do to poor OP to do this? How can I influence him before even starting the thread?
The correct answers are: It IS a pseude-math competition, I did NOTHING and didn't turn it off-topic (besides MAYBE the cannon calculations).
YOU on the other hand didn't read the thread, ALTHOUGH I explicitly asked AND always dragged the thread to a somewhat "Vlad is so cool, oh he didn't win, this is all so silly" thing.
And NOTHING is really unkillable. Vlad dies to anything killy you throw at him, you roll a one at the end of the turn and he's gone for good. That's one roll with 1/6 chance and he's dead. Even IF he is within 12" of a unit.


Team its a good build. Very boring and All that. But Ive had the satisfaction of severinog himmel fail a panik test and flere the field. But then again he is in every Woc army every time so eventually shift happens.
Uh what?

Arnizipal
15-08-2014, 23:00
I suggest we keep in friendly in here. Wouldn't want to start having to hand out warnings...

Arnizipal,

++ The Warseer Moderation Team ++

moonlapse
16-08-2014, 10:58
Something which has been bugging me - I noticed people (esp. Wesser) have been stating that Vlad can keep resurrecting every time he's killed. Have I missed something here? The Carstein Ring states "the first time Vlad is removed from play, roll a D6 at the end of the phase. On a roll of 2 +, he is immediately returned to 'life' with a single Wound". The FIRST time. So if you kill him a second time, he doesn't come back. Kind of takes him out of the running completely as far as I can see.

Wesser
17-08-2014, 09:32
Of course he doesnt keep rezzing. But While he isnt the hardest guy losing him twice seems like hard Work.

Josfer
17-08-2014, 18:49
The point is: it isn't. He dies to any stiff breeze compared to the (better) guys we talk in this thread. The only advantage is, that he has a 6 times the chance to survive a failed test or die spell and (compared to the 3++rr1 CL) 2.6 times the chance to survive HKB. Against cannon balls, close combat, shooting, normal spells, KB, static CR etc. he has major disadvantages compared to the other guys. AND as said, this thread happens to be about WS5 S5 CC enemies.

PaulGreatrix
18-08-2014, 17:00
The 2+ Doombull on a magic carpet.

Josfer
18-08-2014, 21:38
The 2+ Doombull on a magic carpet.
Could you maybe state the full build (inclduing stats if you would be so kind)?

PaulGreatrix
23-08-2014, 16:18
[QUOTE=Josfer;7247321]Could you maybe state the full build (inclduing stats if you would be

Doombull with heavy armour, shield, ramhorn helm, gnarled hide, dawn stone and flyinging carpet. My mistake, its actually a 1+ re-rollable save, that grants him an extra attack for each save he makes. BEEFY!

Josfer
25-08-2014, 09:10
Nagash hits on 3+, wounds on 2+, faces a 6+rr giving free attacks on succes, multiple wounds d3 with 6 attacks:
4 hits, 3.33 wounds, 2.31 pass AS multiplied by d3 is nearly dead Doombull (4.63 of 5).
3.5 stomps, 2.92 wounds, 2 pass armor save, you get another attack

You get two free attacks and 6 normal attacks plus d3 impact hits on S6:
2 impact hits, 0.33 wounds, 0.17 pass ward
8 normal attacks, 4 hits, 0.67 wounds, 0.33 pass ward save

You horribly die. If not you lose the combat and frenzy, don't have impact hits next turn and IF you survive the first round and don't break, surely die in the second turn. In the mean time you barely scratched nagash. If you didn't die from his normal attacks and wound at all (60% chance to not wound him at all).

N00B
26-08-2014, 10:40
Isnt the doom bull monstrous infantry?

Josfer
26-08-2014, 16:00
You are right...then forget the thunderstomp and the DB actually survives the first turn and horribly dies in the next.
...if not nagash uses his 37% chance to HKB him with 4 dice in his staff.

BorkBork
03-09-2014, 14:47
Savage orc warboss with the armor of gork, shield, mounted on a boar, in a unit with a shaman with lucky shrunken head.

You will need to give the shaman or other character in the unit the obsidian lodestone or morks warbanner as well, otherwise your warboss will still die to some snipe spell. And you dont want to fight anyone with poisoned attacks. Imho Orcs cant put anything together that is even remotely unkillable.

Wesser
04-09-2014, 07:28
Everyone have their weaknesses and you can't design something "unkillable" that takes every situation into account (such as snipe spells), and how many poisoned attacks can you put against one cavalry model?

I've seen the DP Cascade himself more than once...

0604854
04-09-2014, 14:48
What about Nagash? How highly does he rate?

Josfer
08-09-2014, 08:49
Until now I think there are only two builds found that can kill nagash with a high probability. Both haven't been calculated here before against most contestants. As Kholek owned this before and nagash is basically Kholek with a 4++, I'd guess he would win where kholek does and win against Kholek.

Will soon have a look at the two nagash killers. ...and make a list of the contestants and how they won.