PDA

View Full Version : 2400 Tomb Kings - new player



thefish11
13-08-2014, 19:20
Hi everyone! This is my first attempt at an 8th edition list. My goal here is to create a balanced all comers list that I can collect and build towards with the eventual goal of taking it to tournaments.

***New list based on advice***

Any opinions on switching the HA to carrion since I'm well over 25% core?

Lords
HLP - lvl 4 heirophant
HLP - lvl 4 lore of light, Power Stone

Heroes
LP - lvl 1 lore of light, Dispel Scroll
LP - lvl 1 lore of light

Core
26 Archers - musc, std
10 Archers - chars go here
4 Chariots - musc, std
4 Chariots - musc, std
5 Horse Archers

Special
4 Necropolis Knights - musc, std, EBtS
3 Sepulchral Stalkers
Warsphinx - Fiery Roar

Rare
Casket
Heirotitan

= 2396 points




Old List

Lords:
HLP - lvl 4 Lore of Nehekhara - heirophant

Heroes:
LP - lvl 2 Lore of Light - Dispel Scroll
LP - lvl 2 Lore of Light - Power Stone
LP - lvl 2 Lore of Light
Prince - GW, Dragonbane Gem

Core:
35 Archers - Std, Musc, Champ - characters go here
7 Chariots - Std, Musc
5 Horse Archers

Special
4 Necropolis Knights - Std, Musc, EBtS
3 Sepulchral Stalkers
Warsphinx - Fiery Roar

Rare
Casket of Souls
Heirotitan

= 2399 points

The biggest issue I'm having is my core. I feel vulnerable having so many wizards in the same bunker. I would love to hear some advice regarding bunkers from more experienced light council players. I've also considered splitting up the chariots into two units of three for more flexibility, but I think this might leave me without a solid combat block, and it's easier to cast buffs on the single unit. I figure the knights will most likely deploy normally, but the option to EBtS is nice to have if I face a shooty list. Any thoughts are much appreciated!

Just some added info, I played a little in 6th so I have the following models to start out with. I planned on buying another battalion next while I try to figure out the rest of the list.

1 battalion (everything with bows)
1 priest on foot
1 priest on horse
1 prince on foot
1 SSC
3 GW ushabti
3 swarms

EvanM
13-08-2014, 21:13
Ubshabti aren't that good but they are beautiful models sso you may want to try them out.

35 archers is okay, but I don't think putting 5 characters in the unit is a great idea. That leaves you pretty exposed.
Having a lvl4 and 3 lvl2's is sort of extensive, you may not need that much. Having 2 of them being lvl1's wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
7 chariots is a little unwieldy, units of 3 are okay and have enough hitting power. You could convert the 7th chariot to a prince/king on a chariot if you want. Its fluffy but fun!
If I were you i'd get yourself another battalion to give you more options and build the skellies into a unit of 40 spearmen.

Tomb kings were uber nerfed in 8th ed, and your list isn't netlist-y so just be careful and learn to use your army as best you can

ewar
13-08-2014, 21:52
Hi,

Welcome to warseer. I'm going to have to disagree a bit with what EvanM said, Tomb Kings were not 'uber nerfed' but they're definitely on the weak end of the spectrum. Don't run chariots less than 4 generally (it's very easy to lose one to light shooting and then two is pretty useless as 2D6 S4 impacts won't win anything. I'd run 7 in a rank of 4 and 3 (or 8 in two units of 4, my personal preference), just don't expect to keep the S5 as a wiley opponent will knock at least one of them out to get rid of the strength boost. Also, remember the FAQ allows you to heal a chariot after they've charged and you still get the impact hits and strength boost.

If you're running a light council you really need to invest in it to make it worthwhile - this normally entails running at least a level 4 of light with supporting level 1s and a hierotitan. This is probably our most competitive build as S6 or 7 banishment is our only answer to a lot of horrible stuff out there. You have to use the spell selection rules to your advantage in order to ensure you get Banishment on your level 4, although you could do something similar with your 3 x level 2s set up. Roll the spells for the other mages first and if they get banishment swap it out.

Putting them all in one bunker is fine, just make sure to have an escape plan if it gets a bit dicey (don't be afraid to walk them out of the unit for instance, better that they might die to ranged attacks than definitely die if their bunker is engaged. On that note - what is your Prince in the list for? He doesn't add a lot defensively to the archers as you have so many characters in there. Maybe split a small bunker off for the mages (10 archers with 4 mages) and run it 1" behind the main unit so nothing can get between them.

Finally, I have had more luck with Necrosphinxes than Warsphinxes. Fly is great, even if it is restricted to 10", as the swiftstride means you can get him into more favourable combats, where a warpshinx will often just be given the run around. Good luck!

Mondobot
13-08-2014, 22:12
Hi, Long time (bad) TK player here, I know everything that does NOT work!. EvanM is right about wizards, max should be 1 LvL 4 and 2 LvL2.

I run Bob-who you know as Grand Heirophant Khatep-he rocks with his Lawmaster and reroll one cast per turn. I take him and 2 LvL2 wizards with laws based on opponent(often I use Nehek just for a second Smiting for my archers)

I use 2 big blocks of archers, about 40 in each. Skellies suck in combat(i.e.are not much better off with spears than bows) so shooting is good, then sheer numbers are key in a fight, I deploy in a horde and swift/combat reform later if I need rank bonuses. That gives the unit 30 shots-60 if you cast Smiting!!!! Always hitting on 5s!!!

I have been running 7 charriots for a while - EPIC FAIL EVERY TIME!!! They are way to hard to manoeuvre well. I try it for the extra rank for impact hits-not worth it. You need the 7th so you can take a loss before charging so you might as well just run 3 in a unit. 2 units of 3 plus your horses give you some mobile shooting to distract your opponents flankers.

Don't bother with the Tomb Prince unless you put him in a combat unit, and don't put all your lords/heroes in one unit, it will get spanked so hard.

I have had great success with Necrolith Colossussess (Colosi?) as support for the big blocks but the Heiro is nearly as good in combat to be honest.

Hope this might help.

ewar
13-08-2014, 23:10
EvanM is right about wizards, max should be 1 LvL 4 and 2 LvL2.

Sorry, that's simply not true. My tournament build for tomb kings is Arkhan, level 4 light and 3 level 1s of light for 12 magic levels, plus casket and hierotitan for 3 bound spells. Between generating D3 from the casket, storing 3 DD as PD, 5 channels and lore of death I've had 18-20 PD phases before.

Of course a lot of tournies comp this to max 3, which is understandable as that build can be brutal when the casting rolls go well.

EvanM
14-08-2014, 00:08
Tomb kings are the only army who can get more than 6 magic levels effectively.

18 dice? Can't you only have 12 at a time?

Wow tomb king special characters really save their butt huh

Sexiest_hero
14-08-2014, 02:04
Yeah TK SC are where it's at. As for myself I run skeleton horde 150 skeletons with spears, or chariot horde 12 chariots (with banner of swiftness) and monsters with kitted out TK. I like the chariot list because one desert wind can send your chariots and monsters screaming across the field a lot faster than people are used to seeing TK move. And even if it's dispelled your slowist model is moving 6-7". I'd listen to Ewar although I wanna know how he gets 18 dice as well.

thefish11
14-08-2014, 02:46
Thanks everyone for the insight. I really want to stick with the light council because I see the S6 banishments providing a counter to things that the rest of the TK army doesn't have an answer for. With that in mind I like the suggestion of hiding a smaller bunker behind the bigger archer unit. Below is a new list that takes a lot of the suggestions. I split the chariots so they're less unwieldy and ditched the prince. I wanted to keep the warsphinx since its my answer for high strength infantry (white lions, etc). I'm over 25% core so I could switch the HA for carrion. Any thoughts?

Lords
HLP - lvl 4 heirophant
HLP - lvl 4 lore of light, Power Stone

Heroes
LP - lvl 1 lore of light, Dispel Scroll
LP - lvl 1 lore of light

Core
26 Archers - musc, std
10 Archers - chars go here
4 Chariots - musc, std
4 Chariots - musc, std
5 Horse Archers

Special
4 Necropolis Knights - musc, std, EBtS
3 Sepulchral Stalkers
Warsphinx - Fiery Roar

Rare
Casket
Heirotitan

= 2396 points

Folomo
14-08-2014, 04:08
@thefish11
The idea of the list looks good to me, but some things can be improved.
For example, the Tomb Prince has no unit to support, at least no combat able unit. 30 skeletons are too few for a combat block. Think about 50-60 at least if you want to use them in this function.
IME, The chariot unit work well IF you have enough chaff to ensure the charge (since terrain aside from buildings and impassable terrain can be pretty much ignored). But in this list, you have only 1 chaff unit, so they have a good chance of getting themself chaffed and then charged.
Also, not sure 35 archers is such a good number. Too many for a simple bunker. Too few to turn into a combat block. I would either divide them in two or reduce the size of the unit.
Another thing I would consider is turning those 3 lvl 2 wizards into a lvl 4 and two lvl 1. For 35 pts you would get a +2 to cast on 4 spells and get a better chance of selecting your spells. Also, the power stone would be a better option on him.

IME, chariots can be used in units of 3 as damaging chaff (can cause 2d6 S4 hits before dying and can clear other chaff) or as a combat block of 7.

Not a fan of 1 sphinx. I prefer either 2+ or none, to saturate the units capable of dealing with the sp

I think suggesting Ushabti to a new player is a pretty mean thing. They look awesone, but are one of the worst flops on the book. Buying them will only leave a player unsatisfied with either and unused model or lost games :p.


build the skellies into a unit of 40 spearmen
I would HIGHLY recommend not using spears on skeleton warriors. You are paying 25% more points for downgrading your SW :(. losing parry doesn't compensate the few extra S3 attacks.


Putting them all in one bunker is fine, just make sure to have an escape plan if it gets a bit dicey (don't be afraid to walk them out of the unit for instance, better that they might die to ranged attacks than definitely die if their bunker is engaged.
<- Good advice. Try to remember this when under pressure.


@EvanM:

and your list isn't netlist-y
Would love to know what you consider a TK netlist :)


Also, remember the FAQ allows you to heal a chariot after they've charged and you still get the impact hits and strength boost.
Just wanted to clarigy this. If you resurrect a chariot that wasn't in contact before the charge, you don't get extra impact hits. If you resurrect a chariot and get a second rank, then you DO get a bonus to S on the impacts.


EvanM is right about wizards, max should be 1 LvL 4 and 2 LvL2.
Strongly disagree. IME, most TK list get good when you have at least 8 levels of wizards (double lvl 4), and 10 in the case of a council with magical support.


I take him and 2 LvL2 wizards with laws based on opponent(often I use Nehek just for a second Smiting for my archers)

I think smiting gets a bit overstimated.
40 extra shoots is fun to roll, but in practice its only 13 S3 hits, which in most situations is pretty similar to 2d6 S4 hits. You don't see much people saying how good a boosted fireball is.


Skellies suck in combat(i.e.are not much better off with spears than bows)
Not surprise here, because spears are a downgrade for skeletons :p. Shield and hand weapon is simply a superior choice.


I deploy in a horde and swift/combat reform later if I need rank bonuses.
why not 20 wide?? You are losing 10/20 for no real reason there. And you will be swift reforming before combat anyways. After all, in most situations you definitely don't want 40- skellies in horde formation.


18 dice? Can't you only have 12 at a time?
You start with 12, but a purple sun with your last dice can easily generate 6-8 Power Dice. Any death wizard can achieve this, but the extra PD of Arkham doesn't hurt :p.

If you haven't visited the dedicated TK forum I would highly recommend it.

Sexiest_hero
14-08-2014, 04:10
I'd tell you to stay way from the TK forum unless you hate your army and yourself. It's like reading youtube comments in there.

ewar
14-08-2014, 12:13
I'd tell you to stay way from the TK forum unless you hate your army and yourself. It's like reading youtube comments in there.

Haha, that's very true. I can't go in there, it's like watching a room full of teenagers self harm and then complaining when someone tells them to cheer up.

Regarding the power dice - remember the 12 cap is only in the pool at one time. By rolling 2D6+D3 casket +3 stored +1 channel you can generally have 10-12 PD every turn. You then trickle cast with Arkhan and Light HLP (remember that arkhan + titan gets an insane +6 to +8 on every casting) so you can trickle cast almost the whole lore of death and finish off with a Purple Sun to give yourself another 6-8 dice with a good hit.

Trust me, don't use this on your friends kids!

Folomo
14-08-2014, 14:46
Have any of you used it in the last year?
The tone of the post's there have changed a ton over time. While a year ago half the post had negative comments, right now its lower than what you see in a common warseer post.
In fact, this post is far more depressing that the TK forum XD.

At least read the pinned tactical articles, there are TONS of insights and tricks to learn there that no other army can pull or will use.
There you will find tons of useful post that will let you play TK with a style that suits you while making use of their strength and preventing you from trying to use styles that don't fit the army (which will cause unnecessary teeth grinding)

EvanM
14-08-2014, 19:20
If i was playing a TK player in the current rules id give him 100 extra points and the first turn out of pity. same for beastmen

thefish11
15-08-2014, 11:41
Thanks for the info. I've been reading through the TK forums and while some of it is doom and gloom, a lot of it is very informative. Does anyone have opinions on the new army list I posted? I will update the op with the new list.