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View Full Version : Advice appreciated on 1500 Dark Elves - returning player, objectives included



Flatworldsedge
15-08-2014, 20:20
Edited list, following feedback (explained below in thread):

1x Dreadlord, Heavy armour, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Charmed shield, Cloak of twilight, Cold one; 234

1x Sorceress, Level 2, Dark steed; 125
Embedded with; 5x Dark Riders, Shields, Repeating Crossbows; 100

6x Dark Riders, Shields, Repeating Crossbows; 120

1x Master, BSB, Cold One, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Shield; 121
Embedded with; 8x Cold One Knights, Champion, Musician; 260

24x Witch Elves, Standard Bearer, Musician, Razor standard; 329

5x Doomfire Warlocks; 125

5x Shades; 80

Total - 1,500


Original post:

Hi all - hope you're all having a fantastic end to the week. I'd very much appreciate some thoughts on a 1,500 Dark Elf list I'm putting together ahead of starting buying/building/beautifying next week. I'm a returning player, coming back after ten years away, so am not 100% up to speed on rule changes (when I last played properly you still drew magic cards from a deck, and that was a new innovation). Any advice, ideas and suggestions would be gratefully received.

Some quick contextual points and objectives before the list;

i) I'm a somewhat fluffy player, so there are some biases/narratives shaping my initial choices, yet I don't want the army to be disastrously uncompetitive. I don't need to win every game, and don't expect to, but would like a flexible force capable of giving a good showing if I use it competently against a wide range of opponents.

ii) I'm building up to 3,000 force and prefer to paint full units together - so would ideally take a few bigger units in my 1,500 and paint them all in one go, rather than buying them piecemeal over time and not having units blend so well in the final force.

iii) I come from years playing Dwarves, painting infantry and war machines, etc. and really missing the conversion potentially of big monsters, etc. So I massively want a mounted general. In the ultimate 3,000 force I'd like that to be a dragon, so will buy and paint that, but call it a manticore in the early days. That feels like it demands a melee general, rather than a sorceress that I want to keep out of combat. That said, I've never had mounts before, so advice is particularly appreciated here.

iv) I love the Witch Elf and Cold One models, so will want them to start with. For whatever reason, I can't stand the Cauldron of Blood model, or concept it wheels itself along at the will of the gods. So I intend to convert a massive spider, and mount a cauldron, etc. on its back. I can't afford to do all that just yet, hence leaving it out of the initial force despite the large Witch Elf unit. I'd look to add that by ~2500 pts.

v) Thanks for bearing with the ramble if you're still with me! Here's my initial list; in juggling the above objectives it feels unbalanced and potentially flawed... Is it completely broken?


1x Dreadlord, Heavy armour, Sea dragon cloak, Charmed shield, Cloak of twilight, Warrior bane, Manticore; 364

1x Sorceress, Level 2, Dispel scroll; 140

20x Witch Elves, Standard Bearer, Musician, Razor standard; 285

5x Cold One Knights, Full Command; 180

5x Doomfire Warlocks; 125

15x Black Ark Corsairs, Repeater handbows; 165

10x Shades, Light armour; 170

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower; 70


Total - 1,499

Knifeparty
15-08-2014, 22:12
Welcome back, and congratulations on picking Dark Elves.

Right off the bat, that is a large amount of points to put into a Dreadlord at this many points. I would suggest putting him on a Cold One or Dark steed and putting him in either the Cold One Knights or the Warlocks. However, if you are intent on putting him on a manticore I would seriously consider dropping the warriors bane, it might be the most useless magic item out there, though there are others that might give it a run for its money. Just give him the Ogre Blade, or better yet just a lance because you are already taking the Cloak of Twilight so all your awesome abilities go away after you charge anyway. Either way, don't bother with stupid gimmicky weapons. Just go for strength bonuses, nothing else really matters unless you have something specific in mind and trust me, the warriors bane isn't one of them.

What lore are you running on your level 2 wizard. I would consider putting her on a dark steed and running her with the unit of warlocks. Generally I run a level 2 sorceress on a dark steed with the lore of Beasts with a unit of 9 warlocks. They run up the board casting doom bolt and soul blight, and then she buffs my units with Wild Form, imagine strength 4 witch elves? or strength 5 Warlocks? Yes Please!

Witch Elves are good, I would add one more to make the unit 21 and run them 7 wide and 3 ranks deep. Maximize attacks because that's all witches have going for them, if there are any enemies left after they've attacked then their going to get a beating. At 3000 pts I usually run 35 with full command with the razor standard and the Cauldron of blood with cry of war.

Cold One Knights are my favourite unit, I've loved them since I started playing and I always take a unit, however they aren't as good as they were last edition and generally need character support to help them out. This is one of the reasons I suggested putting your Dreadlord in there. I generally run a unit of 12 with a Battle Standard Bearer in the unit to re-roll stupidity tests. 6 wide and 2 ranks deep.

Doomfire Warlocks are one of the best units in the game, no problems there.

I haven't used shades in a very long time, I might suggest splitting them into 2 units of 5 and dropping the light armour because it will literally not do anything.

Bolt Throwers are good, however you need to take at least 3 or 4 to get any kind of usefulness out of them, a single bolt thrower will not do much and is pretty much a waste of 70 points

I'm just going to come out and say that you should drop the corsairs. At this points level it's either Witches or Corsairs but not both, you don't have the points and there's no sense in bringing more core than you need. I would drop them and buy at least 2 units of 5 Dark Riders. Dark Riders are insanely good and you'll need them to dance around the enemy. You want to stay mobile and command the battlefield. You determine when and where you fight the enemy, not them. Dark Riders are key to bait/flee/re-director tactics and are great for taking out enemy chaff and war machines.

The first thing I would suggest is getting a Battle standard bearer, in the new edition he gives all units within 12" re-rolls on all failed psychology, stupidity and break tests. as well as adding +1 combat resolution to any combat he is in. Battle Standard bearers are important in pretty much every army except undead.

I know I just gave you a lot to take in, hopefully that will be of some help.

Flatworldsedge
15-08-2014, 23:01
Thanks so much for the detailed thoughts and advice - it's hugely useful and I really appreciate the time!

It's got me thinking about how to reshuffle things and I have a second version coming together that feels more focused. The lance on Dreadlord is a superb thought. I'd gone with the Warriorbane thinking that with the Cloak of Twilight being first round only, this might help cripple possible reprisals from enemy generals in CC. The lance does that so much better, I see now, with the better chance to wound and get the first round D3 wounds on them. The manticore does seem a massive extravagance at this points level, but the appeal of a conversion and big beast to paint is too tempting. At least the reshuffle allowed for its 4+ save to be added.

The lack of BSB was worrying me too, so I've dropped the bolt thrower to make that possible. I really want a highly manoeuvrable army (for fluffy backstory reasons, and having played Dwarves for years!). I've moved missile weapons to cavalry and invested in the steed for the sorceress to help keep her safe (though I wish I could afford a ward for her). My only concern embedded her with the warlocks is that they look decent in CC if the opportunity for a flank charge occurred.

V2 then looks like this;

1x Dreadlord, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Charmed shield, Cloak of twilight, Manticore with Iron hard skin; 370

1x Sorceress, Level 2, Dark steed; 125

1x Master, BSB, Cold One, Sea dragon cloak, Lance; 119
Embedded with; 7x Cold One Knights, Musician; 220

25x Witch Elves, Standard Bearer, Musician, Razor standard; 340

5x Doomfire Warlocks; 125

5x Dark Riders, Shields, Repeating Crossbows; 100

5x Dark Riders, Shields, Repeating Crossbows; 100

Total - 1,499

Thanks again!

Mannfred
18-08-2014, 02:11
Few things...

Firstly I don't like the manticore idea...if u must take a flyer...take the dark Pegasus, less p

Flatworldsedge
18-08-2014, 17:14
Thanks Mannfred - I think your post was chopped in half somehow, but I get the essential point. Others had fed back, and my revised list ditches the monster. I'd love one in a larger list, but just for now I'm contenting myself with a conversion of a Cold One rider using a female head...

The revised list is as follows;

1x Dreadlord, Heavy armour, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Charmed shield, Cloak of twilight, Cold one; 234

1x Sorceress, Level 2, Dark steed; 125
Embedded with; 5x Dark Riders, Shields, Repeating Crossbows; 100

6x Dark Riders, Shields, Repeating Crossbows; 120

1x Master, BSB, Cold One, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Shield; 121
Embedded with; 8x Cold One Knights, Champion, Musician; 260

24x Witch Elves, Standard Bearer, Musician, Razor standard; 329

5x Doomfire Warlocks; 125

5x Shades; 80

Total - 1,500