PDA

View Full Version : Player made changes



Azmodian
18-08-2014, 14:44
I've ranted before about the lack of GW involvment in their own game and got mixed results on the forums. I've decided to compile a list of requested changes from a community point of view. At the moment I am just trying to compile a list of ideas that are floating out there and of what players would like to see changed. By no means am I stating that all of these changes take place.

If you would like to provide constructive idea's than please post.

If you are here to troll, kindly find a fire and jump in. I want to see change in this game and I know I am not alone

What you can do to help is in your post explain the problem with the current rule and what the proposed change would do to fix it.

Lets see what we can do as a community of gamer's with a game that is not supported by its creator.

Azmodian
18-08-2014, 14:47
I propose a change to the monster and Chariot rules.

I would like to see them treated like the Monstrous Cavalry rules, I.E. use them as one profile with the highest toughness/wounds and share a save.

Reason. Lord level characters are vary pricey and it is a known fact that the mount they are riding is not protected or cannot be protected the way they should. A dragon costs 300-330 points. Chariots you still pay for the full cost to add it to the lord.

I would like to play test this and see if it would justify the points, Chaos lord for example is close to 700+ points on a dragon kitted out. It should reflect that on the table.

As for chariots, the same argument as above.

zoggin-eck
18-08-2014, 15:09
Posting this in the rules development section would be a good start?

HelloKitty
18-08-2014, 15:51
Posting this in the rules development section would be a good start?

Seconded. No offense meant but there have been a lot of these lately and that's where they should reside.

theunwantedbeing
18-08-2014, 16:14
Combined profiles helps
-face cannons as they only do 1 hit
-mages live longer as they get the mounts armour save and their ward, plus a higher toughness
-make uber combat lords who can wade through combats barely taking a scratch

Combined profiles don't help
-you being sucked into a challenge
-the mount not getting to fight in the challenge
-lines of steadfast enemies

EvanM
18-08-2014, 16:21
no ones gonna look at it in the rules dev section.

about monsters + chariots. the idea is great. the only thing it really does is boost the toughness and armor save of some characters, and allow some monsters to get a ward save, but right now monster + rider and chariot + rider are among the WORST units in the game for their points because they are treated separately.

The BRB is very good this edition, some changes i would make to it would mostly regard magic, but thats always a total Sh*tstorm

THe main problem most people have with warhammer is the army books, how they are Internally balanced (how come my demigryphs are better than my knights?) and how they are externally balanced (how come your white lions are infinitely better than my greatswords for 2 points more?)

what id suggest is fixing internal balance first, then external balance after, just at the army book level. Mostly points values, however some stat changes.

I have ideas to fix High Elves for example:
Internally:
1. phoenixes in rare section is 0-1 in non grand armies
2. spearmen and lothern sea guard get heavy armor for free (okay look at the model and tell me they dont have heavy armor on)
3. tiranoc chariot is core
4. give shadow warriors 2 hand weapons and S4 (just for fun) or something like poison

Externally:
1. Remove BOTWD, its horrid, theres no reason we need it
2. Book of hoeth is epic but its too cheap to consider not taking. make it 80-100 pts.

EvanM
18-08-2014, 16:22
oh sorry one more internal one: Lion chariot needs to be better, make it have 5 wounds and a 3+ armor save or something, or cheaper, because it is very weak right now.

tiranocs are cool and cheap enough to be weak but lion chariots are awesome looking but still fall over like paper

HelloKitty
18-08-2014, 17:34
no ones gonna look at it in the rules dev section.

People say that about the modeling forum, the battle reports forum, and the pricing thread as well which all have their places. The Rules dev section is where we put topics where rules are discussed for homebrew changes like it or not.

EvanM
18-08-2014, 17:53
well maybe less people will see it, but less people will troll it too.

dude why dont you move the thread?

jorgepo
18-08-2014, 19:43
oh sorry one more internal one: Lion chariot needs to be better, make it have 5 wounds and a 3+ armor save or something, or cheaper, because it is very weak right now.

tiranocs are cool and cheap enough to be weak but lion chariots are awesome looking but still fall over like paper

The Lion Chariot puts out 4 WS5/S5 attacks, 2 WS5/S6 attacks, plus S5 scythed impact hits. Plus high initiative, stubborn, fear, etc. You can't have everything, and if you did, you'd complain about the point cost.


Yes, the chariot can be a bit fragile, but it hits hard, which is in line with the High Elves style of play. Warhammer would be a very boring game if every unit was awesome at everything.

EvanM
18-08-2014, 20:20
T4 with 4 wounds and a 4+ armor save is essentially the same amount of health as 4 black orcs.

Literally any shooting can kill this, even pistoliers can take it out in one turn.

EvanM
18-08-2014, 20:21
The difference is that you can't put BOTWD on a lion chariot, unlike an otherwise massive unit of fragile troops

Azmodian
18-08-2014, 20:32
Keep in mind treating a monster with a rider like a monstrous cav would mean you can't target the monster or chariot in CC, in the case of a challenge it would be the same as for example with a chaos lord on a daemonic mount.

As for internal balance and external balance that is going to be vary tough. I really can't make heads or tails of what GW has justified a point cost to be. Why a human captain is 50 points and a wood elf captain is 75 points really makes no sense in a generic point cost equation... I'm no math guru but it doesn't feel balanced on the table.

As for moving this thread, didn't know there was a development section, and second I disagree with this thread going there. I'm not developing anything new at this point. Right now we are discussing changes. In the future I wouldn't mind moving it there when we are done compiling ideas and moving towards testing.

Thanks for the feedback thus far

jorgepo
18-08-2014, 21:04
The difference is that you can't put BOTWD on a lion chariot, unlike an otherwise massive unit of fragile troops

You've officially been spoiled by BOTWD. :)

jorgepo
18-08-2014, 21:35
T4 with 4 wounds and a 4+ armor save is essentially the same amount of health as 4 black orcs.

Literally any shooting can kill this, even pistoliers can take it out in one turn.

Literally any shooting? Most shooting is S3. Look, you're playing a glass hammer army, get used to it.

EvanM
19-08-2014, 01:12
shooting is scary for the lion chariot, but the WORST thing is that when you get to close combat you basically will only ever get to attack one time. you strike, almost any unit in the game will kill it in one turn. thats the problem with the lion chariot unless you:

flank/rear charge, but still.

go after war machine crew, wiz bunkers, or tarpits.

-----------------------------------------------------

anyway back to the other thing:

Everyone seems to think that GW prices things linearly, by that i mean this:

basic human model is 3 pts
T+1 = +2 pts per model
S+1 = +2 pts per model
light armor = +1pts
heavy = +2pts
full plate or other 4+ = +3pts
shield = +1pts
ASF (for elves) = +2pts
M +1 = +1 pt
WS+1 = +1 pt

and so on. so thats how basic troops are scaled. and it makes HORRID sense. The thing is that if you start stacking all of these on at once (imagine a S4 T4 chaos elf warior with ASF 2 attacks frenzy chaos armor shield .... yadda yadda yadda and its like 25 pts. but that guy is epic)

most players would pay +1 points per model for simple upgrades especially from light armor to heavy

Ramius4
19-08-2014, 04:48
shooting is scary for the lion chariot, but the WORST thing is that when you get to close combat you basically will only ever get to attack one time. you strike, almost any unit in the game will kill it in one turn. thats the problem with the lion chariot unless you:

flank/rear charge, but still.

go after war machine crew, wiz bunkers, or tarpits.

Since Chariots are support type units, that's exactly what I expect out of them. If they're getting blown up in one turn, you're charging the wrong units. Or, you're using them unsupported. Either way, that's something you have to learn to use differently. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with the unit.

Urgat
19-08-2014, 07:17
shooting is scary for the lion chariot, but the WORST thing is that when you get to close combat you basically will only ever get to attack one time. you strike, almost any unit in the game will kill it in one turn. thats the problem with the lion chariot unless you:

flank/rear charge, but still.

go after war machine crew, wiz bunkers, or tarpits.

Try wolf chariots someday :rolleyes: I get the feeling you want your chariots to survive combats on their own, but that's not how they work. Lion chariots are great.

EvanM
19-08-2014, 07:29
Anyway I literally care the LEAST about changing the lion chariot. What about the other high elf changes I said? It's really not much, just keeping players honest

EvanM
19-08-2014, 07:31
New rule, every time you take BOTWD you have to tell the opponent what unit it's in, and he gets to slap you in the face once for every 10 models in that unit

Heepnose
19-08-2014, 07:32
My tomb king chariots should have 5 wounds and 3+save too please. Pretty please? With a cherry on top?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

EvanM
19-08-2014, 08:22
Again whatever I concede the lion chariot thing, how about we talk about actual important stuff.

And tomb kings need some love, bro, so I wouldn't be that against a boost for them