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Damien 1427
22-06-2006, 18:23
Right, back when the world was young and death was but a dream (Also known as Necromunda 1st Edition), Spyrers were true killing engines, unstoppable in early stages of campaigns and frighteningly lethal in the end-game.

Of course, they were pricey buggers. The cheapest was a "mere" 165 creds, more than a tooled up leader, the most expensive 195. The real sick part was they could buy D6 experience for 10 creds, meaning in theory you could have three guys with a load of skills and suit upgrades before the first game of the campaign. Of course, there was one little thing about Spyrer gangs that made them arguably broken beyond belief.

There was no minimum warband size. You could only have one Spyre Hunting Rig, loaded with potentially nineteen upgrades, able to rip apart almost any ganger in hand-to-hand and (In the case of the Orrus and Yeld) capable of shredding them from range. This was of course, always up for debate. On one hand, every other gang within the game had a stated minimum, whilst the Spyrers did not. On the other, it could have just been a typo.
Yet GW themselves used the legendary 1,000 Cred in a campaign within either Necromunda magazine or the Citadel Journal.

So, do you think, under the original rules (Not Underhive. That can rot in hell for all I care) that 1,000 Cred Spyrers were legal? Would you allow one in a campaign? And if you've the old rules, fancy showing the world your own perverse creations? :evilgrin:

Autobot HQ
26-06-2006, 15:33
Goldberg. Simply unstoppable. I can still use him in the next campaign, as he'd cost 185ts + 769pts of experience. Although chances are then I wouldn't be able to rehire him again.

An Orrus he was, ended up with a 3+ force field, a 2+ armour save, 2 wounds, 4 attacks, WS7. His bolt-fists had extra range and strength, and his skill list included (but not limited to) iron jaw, combat master, disarm, parry, bodyslam and the fear-causing skill ( name eludes me).

Never died. Ever. Never even lost both his wounds. Scary scary man he was.

A-HQ

Jo Bennett
26-06-2006, 18:25
it's not the power of spyrers I mind, it's the fact that their gang rating is so low. It's just sick having your entire gang ripped apart in 3 turns by a gang that is supposedly 3-500 points lower than yours, and there's virtually no way to stop them, especially with a gang like scavvies that can't take them on with ranged weapons.

Mouldsta
26-06-2006, 23:32
Spyrers stopping being played around me, since anyone that took them always ended up on the recieving end of a diving-juve-death voluntary bottle win. People didn't like playing against spyrers, especially as they attracted the worst kind of gamers around me. I never got to play against them, as I would have quite liked to :( (even if my gang would have become interesting suit ornaments)

Damien 1427
26-06-2006, 23:38
Well, I never feared them. I was introducing a friend to Necro, and I suggested he try them out against my starting Van Saar. Now, I have a policy of never arming a Juve until they've taken something out of action, so I had one Juve with a knife. He charged a pumped-up Yeld (He only had three spyrers, all filled to the brim with upgrades), and proceeded to fluke his rolls and since the Yeld only had one wound, promptly was taken out of action.

Following the game, which resulted in most of my gang laying around the table bleeding (Including my leader, heavies and a few gangers), we rolled injuries. He rolled snake-eyes for the Yeld. So yeah, a green Juve with a knife killed a Spyrer. Rolled up a Power Sword on rare trade, and gave him it. After the next game he died. :rolleyes: My friend, however, never really got into Necro after that.

Gen.Steiner
28-06-2006, 01:55
Yes, the 1,000 Cred Spyrer is legal.

However - I'd make him the Arbitrator... :evilgrin:

Chem-Dog
28-06-2006, 02:32
Yeah, Legal but not ethical ;)

I tried, for fun, to generate a Malcaddon one man spyrer gang with a view to including him as a special event in a campaign but rolled terribly for the advances, it's actually quite hard to get a really usefull Spyrer, Bs upgrades with no ranged weapon or an assault monster stuck with 1 attack.

Damien 1427
28-06-2006, 07:39
However - I'd make him the Arbitrator... :evilgrin:

I'm plotting that, since I'll be making DAVE (My first one, made from a Heavy Gear mech, two bolters, two powerfists and a Catachan head) out of a Kommander Karchev Warmachine figure, and a few chainguns. He'll loom, making him a massive target, but to compensate I'll probably give him Terror.

robertsjf
01-07-2006, 20:24
We only ran the 1000 cred Spyrer against that one gang. You know, after about 3 months of a new campaign one playre had developed their gang to where noone could match it. The 1000 cred spyrer was a sort of measuring stick. Either he took the gang down a few pegs to make the campaign viable or they would do horrible things to him, thus prompting us to start a new campaign...

Lord Humongous
05-07-2006, 17:19
Spyre Hunters are fairly easy to deal with if the scenario allows you to take enough guys to outnumber them. All you need do is go on overwatch, get them pinned, and then keep yur guys on overwatch. Then keep shooting the hunters in thier own turn, after they make thier rolls to un-pin, and they can't do anything for the rest of the game! It does require setting up traps, maybe sacrtificing a man, and a bit of luck, but that's what makes it a worthwhile game, eh? I've never lost to spyrers when using those tactics, or at least not badly enough to worry about. I've even beaten experienced spyrer gangs (old rules) with brand new scavvie gangs (also old rules)- with no zombies, just lots of gun-toting scavvies and one scalie. The one-man spyrer "gang" would be VERY vulnerable to this tactic, I'd expect, so it doesn't bother me any.

Autobot HQ
07-07-2006, 15:38
Scarier than the one man spyer for me personally was the old Scavvies. Just in general. They basically won the campiagn with this "tactic"

1) Hire the bare minimum guys (Leader and 2 scavvies), with no equipment.
2) Bottle your first game
3) Choose Caravan Scenerio for your second
3) Hire Karloth Valois and 500 creds of plague zombies (For 50D6+1 of them...)
4) Run forward in a crazy mass by rolling 3D6 and choosing the highest two dice for their movement. Get about 70 models off the table egde, which netted d6x15 creds per model, usually resulting in about 3,000 credits.
5) Buy your actual gang of about 20 guys armed to the teeth. And richer than most uphivers ever, saving 500 creds obviously...
6) Rinse and repeat, and spend the 3000 creds from that battle buying all the drugs, rare weapons and armour you're offered.

Cpt. Drill
08-07-2006, 02:03
Well, I never feared them. I was introducing a friend to Necro, and I suggested he try them out against my starting Van Saar. Now, I have a policy of never arming a Juve until they've taken something out of action, so I had one Juve with a knife. He charged a pumped-up Yeld (He only had three spyrers, all filled to the brim with upgrades), and proceeded to fluke his rolls and since the Yeld only had one wound, promptly was taken out of action.

Following the game, which resulted in most of my gang laying around the table bleeding (Including my leader, heavies and a few gangers), we rolled injuries. He rolled snake-eyes for the Yeld. So yeah, a green Juve with a knife killed a Spyrer. Rolled up a Power Sword on rare trade, and gave him it. After the next game he died. :rolleyes: My friend, however, never really got into Necro after that.

If the spyre player allows you to even see any of his gang.... he doesnt count...



A friend of mine took three yields and he counted it as a loss if you ever could get a shot off at his gang...

Bubble Ghost
08-07-2006, 11:37
Am I the only one who's never had a problem with Spyrers? I'd love it if someone only took one of them, especially if it was a Jakara or Orrus. You just need to keep your gang together and swamp them. If you have even one half decent close combat fighter, the Spyrer's toast. Even if there's three or four, a bit of chess-like positioning nous and a decent scenario will see you through. They aren't that tough.

I never had a problem with Scavvies, either, but that's probably because I play Goliaths and thus half my gang had the Combat Master skill - plague zombies were basically walking experience points. And Autobot HQ, that's why you need a campaign arbitrator. I'd come up with horrible things to do to a player who tried that.

Autobot HQ
08-07-2006, 15:12
Bubble, I was the campaign arbitrator. At first I didn't wanna get involved, then just decided screw it and sent 15 Adeptus Arbites in along with the three redemtionist gangs. That sorted the problem nicely.

Bubble Ghost
08-07-2006, 16:03
Glad to hear it.:D My approach would probably have been to wait until after a player tried it, then apply common sense - wait until he was halfway through gleefully counting up the credits he would be getting, them tell him that the plague zombies had actually eaten or destroyed everything and he got no credits at all. "Did you really expect zombies to just carry everything back to base in an orderly fashion? Karloth can tell them where to go, but he obviously can't override instinct to that extent... Guess you won't be making that mistake again, eh?" That'd learn him sharpish.

Darkseer
08-07-2006, 18:01
But WHICH spyrer would you choose to spend 1000creds on above all others?

Lord Humongous
08-07-2006, 19:13
As lone fighters, the Orus is probably the best, or maybe the Jakkara. Both have an unmodifiable save which, if passed, prevents them from having been hit (and thus pinned). The others are MUCH more vulnerable to "hold fire" tactics.

Darkseer
09-07-2006, 05:06
I was thinking that 1 Yeld would be pretty good?

Gen.Steiner
09-07-2006, 14:36
I'd have to plump for an Orrus myself. 1,000 cred Orrus... mmm...

Damien 1427
09-07-2006, 15:20
Orrus, most certainly. Like I said, if I were to build another one, it'd be as big, bulky and dangerous-looking as possible.

Cpt. Drill
09-07-2006, 15:46
Yield is the best by far...

Orrus is okay.. but cannot beat an entire gang in a fire fight!

memitchell747
19-07-2006, 03:20
What really sucks is SG is trying to eliminate any and all abuses possible with Outlander gangs. But, they have no play testing capability. So, the result is boring, nerfed gangs (except fo the Redemptionts mob which seems to be coming down the pike). I'm not happy with any Outlander rewrites.

Tomothy
21-07-2006, 13:55
I think everyone who has played a spyrer gang has at one point at least toyed with the idea of 1 spyrer with all the rest of the money spent on training if not actually done it.

However I have to disagree with everyone else who says it is legal. It is not. None of the Outlander gangs specifically say in their rules that they have a minimum of 3 members. This is because they follow the standard rules for building a gang unless otherwise excepted.

Nowhere in their rules does it say they have any credits to start with, the place starting credits is listed is in the same place the minimum of 3 gang members is listed. In the sourcebook, page 32. The same place it says you can only have one leader.


On the subject of scavvies and zombies. If I was arbitrator I would not allow that tactic, zombies will not loot. That is just silly, they are not thinking or reasoning. Having Karloth in your gang does not make them smarter, just more dangerous. Its just like hired guns, i don't allow them to loot either. They are not technically part of the gang (as they are not constant), they don't affect the income chart of legal gangs. They don't affect your bottle limit.
The tactic i heard was spend half your money on scavvies (with only knife and club) and a leader, then the rest on zombies when you get to choose the scenario. Use the zombies to take out and/or distract the enemy and run the scavvies off the table.
My gaming group tried to come up with solutions for the problems scavvies represented after discussion rather than accepting the rules as law. Its obvious that in some cases they don't work as they should.

Damien 1427
22-07-2006, 12:57
Orrus is okay.. but cannot beat an entire gang in a fire fight!

Doesn't need to if you get the 2+ Unmodifiable Save.

warpscum
22-07-2006, 18:46
Doesn't need to if you get the 2+ Unmodifiable Save.

Exactly!
I like the Orrus best anyway. But i don'r like the Spyers much, there's no feeling in them:(