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Uberprivate
24-08-2014, 17:04
Hey guys,

I'm building my first 1k and my main opponent is HE.

Uncommonly he uses no shooting except magic. He focuses on heavy infantry (swordmasters and the like) and uses silver helms, eagles and one of those lion chariots.


My army is supposed to be a tzeentch/mortal themed army. But I also use beastmen-models as proxies for which I find the MoK much more fitting.


The sorcerer would be with the TZ-Warriors. Is this wise? I have no idea where else I should put it. Where do you put your sorcerers?

The Forsaken are in there because 1. I have the right bits to build them and 2. I like the random element of the unit.
But how should I actually play them? In theory (I'm not very experienced in WHF) they run into the flank of enemy units. Is this a viable way to use them?


So, what do you think?



*************** 1 Hero ***************

Chaos Sorcerer
+ Lore of Shadows
- - - > 110 Points


*************** 6 Core Units ***************

15 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standardbearer, Champion
- - - > 285 Points

15 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Musician, Standardbearer, Champion
- - - > 315 Points

5 Forsaken, Forsaken of Khorne
- - - > 105 Points

5 Forsaken, Forsaken of Khorne
- - - > 105 Points

5 Chaos Warhounds, Scaly Skin, Mutant Poisons
- - - > 40 Points

5 Chaos Warhounds, Scaly Skin, Mutant Poisons
- - - > 40 Points


Total Points Warriors of Chaos : 1000

Lord Solar Plexus
24-08-2014, 17:54
Very neat and pretty straightforward. Some suggestions:

With no shooting, your Sorceror could run around on his own. You would need to dispel any threatening magic missiles aimed at him but if you can keep him out of line of sight, that is something to consider. Wherever you put him, I would give him an enchanted shield for a 2+ AS and a parry save. Against Swordmasters, he currently only has a 6+ AS - not good.

If your opponent likes to field the Lore of Metal, consider the Dragonbane Gem and let him waste power dice on your General.

Yes, Forsaken should be aimed at flanks, remnant units or chaff like Fast Cavalry (if you can catch them). They can also hurt Archer or Spearmen units if they're not too big.

The Lore of Shadow is a good lore but not so much for WoC. While Miasma is nifty to strike before Swordmasters and White Lions, it doesn't help against ASF. The Initiative-based spells aren't so hot against Elves either.

In order to free up some points for the shield mentioned above, you could drop the champions (I never play with champions). Granted, WoC get a quality attack for those 10 points but they're not a must.

The dogs don't need those upgrades. A 6+ save isn't going to help at all and they'll get cut down before poison makes itself felt. That would give you the same 20 points to play around with as dropping the Champions should you feel you want the latter. Alternatively, vanguard is a good upgrade for dogs as it lets them get into the right position to bait or divert.

I like to field Tzeentch Warriors with the MR1 banner. Together with their ward, that gives them a 5++ against magic missiles which at this point level and their unit size could well make a difference. If you chose to put your General here, the Standard of Discipline gives you 12" Ld 9. Again alternatively, the Gleaming Pennant can get you out of Dodge if you fail a critical Ld test. Having said that, you're often unlikely to be steadfast and will in such a case be testing on a modified Ld so while a 5 point re-roll is a steal, it might not help all that much.

Hope that helps.

zielonkak
25-08-2014, 01:10
Drop up grades on dogs, swap gw on warriors for halbreds, keep champion for unit with sorcerer for challenges. With extra points add either a scroll, or dragon bane gem and enchanted shield or even a power familar or power dice....magic needs to be effective....I would use fire also and try to get second level on him.

Uberprivate
25-08-2014, 10:07
Thanks guys, all your points sound very reasonable.


Lord Solar Plexus: What banner do you mean? I have to admit that I don't know what you mean with the second + regarding the 5++... I've seen it a few times but have no clue.

zielonkak: I use the GW because 1. WYSIWYG and 2. against HE the AHL isn't important, right?



I'm also thinking about a warrior-heavy list (see below).
Would that force be too immobile?
I would love to build and play a unit of Tz-Halberdiers, but I know that the best halberd-warriors would be nurgle. Could the setup below still be viable? For the price of the halberds I could upgrade my sorcerer...

At the moment the list is 1005 because I don't know if I should drop the dragonbane gem or shield or drop smth else.


*************** 1 Hero ***************

Chaos Sorcerer
+ Lore of Metal
+ Dragonbane Gem, Enchanted Shield
- - - > 120 Points


*************** 4 Core Units ***************

12 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standardbearer, Champion
- - - > 234 Points

12 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Halberds, Musician, Standardbearer
- - - > 260 Points

14 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Musician, Standardbearer
- - - > 286 Points

5 Forsaken, Forsaken of Khorne
- - - > 105 Points


Total Points Warriors of Chaos : 1005

Uberprivate
04-09-2014, 17:54
Does anyone have thoughts on the warrior-heavy list?

Skallagoose
04-09-2014, 18:17
Does anyone have thoughts on the warrior-heavy list?

I run a warrior heavy list- one big block. Its always worked for me, but a lot of people (and highly competitive players) use horsemen more so then warriors. I think it comes down to what you want.

I will be trying out horsemen, but as of right now i ONLY have experience with a big block of warriors. I love them. I only lost them once to 2 big blocks of 40 hitting them. Model to model- warriors are the BEST core choice in the game (imo). They are customizable too- with MoT/MoN being tanks/anvils, or MoK for that hard hitting hammer.

Warrior-heavy list will be a power-house!

Uberprivate
04-09-2014, 18:24
That sounds great, i thought and hoped so. What do you think about Tz-Halberdiers or Kh-Halberdiers with shields? Too expensive? I like to play wysiwyg, so i might even try Kh with boards.

Skallagoose
04-09-2014, 19:53
That sounds great, i thought and hoped so. What do you think about Tz-Halberdiers or Kh-Halberdiers with shields? Too expensive? I like to play wysiwyg, so i might even try Kh with boards.

I'd go Khorne with that setup (frenzy plus halberts is a good idea). Tz you lose the benefit if you take halberts (6+parry gets turned into 5+ with Tz, but Halberts are two handed weapons- lose shield in close combat). Personally i like Nurgle halberts (-1hit adds a lot of survivability), but i would lie if i didnt say my halbert unit (has yet to see combat) is khorne.

Edit Note; I love playing WYSIWYG too! i feel like I'm cheating when i don't. My DP doesn't have wings on him (I'm working on a conversion with undead dragon wings on a 40k metal DP) and thats the only thing i will allow. So i understand your struggle. But remember you are being 100% more honorable.

Josfer
08-09-2014, 10:55
Chaos Sorcerer, Lore of Metal, Dragonbane Gem, Enchanted Shield 120 Points
12 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standardbearer, Champion 234 Points
12 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Halberds, Musician, Standardbearer 260 Points
14 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Musician, Standardbearer 286 Points
5 Forsaken, Forsaken of Khorne 105 Points
=1005
The dragonbane gem is kinda very luck dependent in 1000 pts. A Luckstone will probably have way better value for the guy. Or ironcurse icon if he goes in a unit...which he should. And why doesn't he have a mark??? 10 pts for MoT gives him a 6++ (6+ ward save) which is a steal compared to talisman of protection.
MoT+Shield warriors are a defensive unit. Those should be fielded 5 wide to minimize incoming attacks from hordes. Warriors are tough as nails and only lose 1 attack in the back row, so 10 are enough. Especially if your caster goes here. Having a champion in your mage bunker is a good thing (you have. Just saying).
Halberdiers should really not have MoT if they aren't prone to be shot to pieces (for example you know you'll face a gun line). Same goes with shields although removing shields only saves some points and giving them another mark gives them a huge benefit. If you need the 12 points somewhere else, drop them, otherwise they're fine.
MoK warriors are three attacks in the front row and one in the back row. Losing a back rank model isn't that bad. You can easily go down to 12 (as offensive units should be fielded 6 wide).
If you follow my advice that's 89 pts you can spend. Give the sorc MoT, get the bunker a standard of discipline, the khornies a banner of swiftness and the halberdiers (who should be MoK or MoN) a gleaming penant. Now get a unit of dogs and you have 14 pts left for either shields, something nice for the sorc like a biting blade or luckstone+ironcurse icon.