PDA

View Full Version : Two clarification questions about combat



-Epimetheus-
24-08-2014, 23:38
I used to play Warhammer many, many years ago, in previous editions. I'm getting back into the game, and recently got the new rulebook, and have been going through it to look at the changes. I like a lot of the changes regarding movement, and magic seems like it's almost going to cause more trouble than it's worth now.....

I've been looking through the rulebook, and seem stumped on two things though. The first thing is shields. In the shooting section, it mentions that Shields have an effect on armour saves vs shooting. There is no mention of that in the combat section of the rulebook however, other than that it provides a parry save when used with a regular hand weapon. So, for instance, in close combat, Warriors of Chaos with hand weapons and shields would get their 4+ armour save plus a 6+ parry save. Alternatively, depending on how the rule in the Shooting section is interpreted, you could gain a bonus to armour while still using a 2 handed weapon or a magical weapon..... Can someone point out if this is right or wrong, since this is vastly different from previous editions that I have played.....

Secondly, should I choose to upgrade my Warriors with Halberds, would I now be unable to use the Hand weapon + Shield combination in close combat if I so choose to do so? This also seems weird to me..... The rulebook doesn't seem to specify how a choice like that would work in either the combat or weapons sections, since it completely avoids talking about shields in combat other than a parry save.....

If I'm mistaken, or if there's been some kind of FAQ addressing this (I've read the one in the Black Library without finding anything related to this, as well as ran through a bunch of threads in this forum), or if I've missed something, could you let me know?

Blkc57
25-08-2014, 03:31
In 8th edition if you purchase a weapons upgrade for a unit you are required to use it in close combat, these are things like great weapons, halberds and spears. (this is stated in the rulebook) Thus if you purchase both halberds and shields for a unit of warriors then in close combat you must discard the shield and utilize the halberds. Out of close combat you can choose to either use the shield or not if you want (and really in a shooting situation you would want to utilize the shields). So the final situation is a unit of warriors with shields and halberds would have a 3+ armor save against shooting attacks, but have that armor save reduced to 4+ in close combat due to the fact that they have to switch to their halberds (a weapon that requires both hands). So really the parry save is only for those warriors on foot who choose not to purchase any weapons upgrades but still wish to buy shields (and these people are usually Tzeentch Warriors to benefit from their mark.)

bigbiggles
25-08-2014, 10:21
Shields also still add 1 to your save in cc

-Epimetheus-
25-08-2014, 10:41
In 8th edition if you purchase a weapons upgrade for a unit you are required to use it in close combat, these are things like great weapons, halberds and spears. (this is stated in the rulebook) Thus if you purchase both halberds and shields for a unit of warriors then in close combat you must discard the shield and utilize the halberds. Out of close combat you can choose to either use the shield or not if you want (and really in a shooting situation you would want to utilize the shields). So the final situation is a unit of warriors with shields and halberds would have a 3+ armor save against shooting attacks, but have that armor save reduced to 4+ in close combat due to the fact that they have to switch to their halberds (a weapon that requires both hands). So really the parry save is only for those warriors on foot who choose not to purchase any weapons upgrades but still wish to buy shields (and these people are usually Tzeentch Warriors to benefit from their mark.)

Can you point out the section that states that you get the +1 armour save bonus for using a shield in combat that requires you to use it with one of your hands though? The way I'm reading things, you either get the +1 regardless (mentioned in the shooting section), or you only get a parry save with a hand weapon in close combat.....

Also, if true that you can't choose to use a Shield in close combat by choice, that kinda sucks :(

Mr_Rose
25-08-2014, 10:54
On p.51 in the close combat rules, it directs you to p.43 in the shooting rules to figure out how armour saves work, so they naturally function exactly the same way as against shooting (unless something special happens), meaning you get the bonus save for having a shield in close combat too. Nothing about the "Hand Weapon and Shield" rule on p.88 states that you lose the shield bonus to your save in exchange, nor does it state that you don't get the save bonus with other types of weapon like Spears.

Except: in the selection of weapon profiles, starting on p.90, we see that some have the "Requires Two Hands" rule which can found on p.75; this specifies that models using such a weapon can't use shields in close combat.
Also in the Weapons section, there is a heading "Special Weapons" under which is the sub-heading "Close Combat Weapons" on p.89 which describes which weapons you can use. This is where the "no HW&Shield if you got a Spear rule" lives.

-Epimetheus-
25-08-2014, 11:25
Thanks. I missed the part on 75, and the implcations were confusing.....