PDA

View Full Version : Where are we heading after all the codex are updated? [40k]



Orkímedez
01-09-2014, 09:09
Hi folks,

with all the rush in the release of the new hard cover codex compared to "older times" I was wondering, what will become of 40k after all the codex are out?

Correct me if I am mistaken, but rumours says...
Sep: DE
BA: before the end of the year
CRONs: early 2015.
Sisters?: if ever

and that's it. Would they dare to start all over again after pulling through our guts the 7th ed only after 2years?

Last Orks update took 6 years, will the next one happens in 3?

There is soooo much room for supplements based in the mother codex that it would be hardly unaccountable to miss this chance.

Ideas?

ed: just realized this might be in the wrong section. Sorry about it, please move it accordingly.

Gingerwerewolf
01-09-2014, 09:28
The way I see it, GW are going to move to a model by model release - with WD releasing the Rules.

See how the new codecies are laid out almost identicle to the WD rules? Thats so you can cut out the WD rules and keep em with the Codex.

Id still expect to see certain codex's updating and changing - The Rumour about CSM being on the cards for next year does not surprise me - and other armies that dont work could be added to that list - Nids?

However I mainly see it as you say - a chance to do supplements - Sisters of Battle as a Minidex for any imperial army, Ork Freebooterz, Specific Marine Chapters for Both Chaos and Imperial - Specific Cabals / Craftworlds - hell we could even see Genestealer Cults, Squats, and the occasional Zoat...

*slaps himself*

But in general we'll see lots of releases of models that dont have to have a codex to come out.

tneva82
01-09-2014, 09:31
and that's it. Would they dare to start all over again after pulling through our guts the 7th ed only after 2years? .

Um all the codexes aren't in 7th ed format and GW has cycled through codexes before. There's no quarantee they will even publish codexes you mentioned before first 6th ed codex gets 7th edified.

So where are we heading: More 7th ed codexes. Majority of codexes aren't "newest edition". For that status we have just 3. Question is just do they update all the <6 before they start updating 6th ed ones.

Polaria
01-09-2014, 10:25
Supplements will be coming, thats for sure. In Grey Knight codex at least all FOC changes were removed from the oldie Codex so I would assume the same trend continues: There will be one list with no FOC changes in the basic Codex and if you wish a Battleforged army with something else for Troops those will be available as a supplement so GW can sell more books.

Also, since the most current layout is that all information on any specific unit is on one page it does support the idea Gingerwerewolf presented that GW will be moving to model-per-model releases with one-page rules in WD out the same week as model comes to preorder. Every once in awhile they can print "updated" codices which will be basically the old codex+WD pages.

The new business model would mean no large-scale releases on single army but gradual changes. This way GW could cut costs in art department (no new drawn art, using same pictures of units for model rules and WD) and book design & printing (same layout for everything, possibly print-on-demand supplements). It would also reduce financial risks involved in "big-push" type large army releases and basically make it impossible for their competing model-makers to push out any competing models for the game untill GW had sold its own models for at least a couple of weeks. At the same time their marketing would be to push people buy less models at one time but more often (as new models would be coming out for each army yearly) and buy more supplement books and WDs (as rules for everything cool and new would be in them). Maintaining this business model would mean there will be no big rules changes and no new editions any time soon.

If reading this someone thinks "wait, it sounds like how Warmahordes is done" that is because it is.

ashc
01-09-2014, 10:31
Supplements will be coming, thats for sure. In Grey Knight codex at least all FOC changes were removed from the oldie Codex so I would assume the same trend continues: There will be one list with no FOC changes in the basic Codex and if you wish a Battleforged army with something else for Troops those will be available as a supplement so GW can sell more books.

Also, since the most current layout is that all information on any specific unit is on one page it does support the idea Gingerwerewolf presented that GW will be moving to model-per-model releases with one-page rules in WD out the same week as model comes to preorder. Every once in awhile they can print "updated" codices which will be basically the old codex+WD pages.

The new business model would mean no large-scale releases on single army but gradual changes. This way GW could cut costs in art department (no new drawn art, using same pictures of units for model rules and WD) and book design & printing (same layout for everything, possibly print-on-demand supplements). It would also reduce financial risks involved in "big-push" type large army releases and basically make it impossible for their competing model-makers to push out any competing models for the game untill GW had sold its own models for at least a couple of weeks. At the same time their marketing would be to push people buy less models at one time but more often (as new models would be coming out for each army yearly) and buy more supplement books and WDs (as rules for everything cool and new would be in them). Maintaining this business model would mean there will be no big rules changes and no new editions any time soon.

If reading this someone thinks "wait, it sounds like how Warmahordes is done" that is because it is.

Yeah, pretty much this post. GW have worked out they can make a lot of cash from publishing vs. making more models :p

ehlijen
01-09-2014, 11:30
There hasn't been an edition that's seen all codices brought up to date since 3rd, and I doubt we will with 7th. There are quite a few paradigm changes that mark 6th ed books as no longer current. Most notably LOW characters, alternate FO charts and objectives and a lack of troops shuffling.

We will see 8th ed, or a major update to 7th, before we've got all books up to 7th. And there will be many supplements and dataslates, almost none, if any, of which will be worth the asking price :(

aprilmanha
01-09-2014, 11:53
There hasn't been an edition that's seen all codices brought up to date since 3rd, and I doubt we will with 7th. There are quite a few paradigm changes that mark 6th ed books as no longer current. Most notably LOW characters, alternate FO charts and objectives and a lack of troops shuffling.

We will see 8th ed, or a major update to 7th, before we've got all books up to 7th. And there will be many supplements and dataslates, almost none, if any, of which will be worth the asking price :(

Quoting for truth.

MiyamatoMusashi
01-09-2014, 12:15
There hasn't been an edition that's seen all codices brought up to date since 3rd, and I doubt we will with 7th. There are quite a few paradigm changes that mark 6th ed books as no longer current. Most notably LOW characters, alternate FO charts and objectives and a lack of troops shuffling.

But is any of that worth paying £30 for? And I don't even just mean that in a price-complaint sense, just that surely even GW will realise that it's not enough new content to justify a new book.

"Oh, yay, a new Tau Codex just two years after the last one! Let's see what's changed for 7th Ed... Shadowsun is a Lord of War, there's an FOC that lets me take more Heavy Support (at the cost of Troops no longer taking objectives), and the first six results on the random objective table have changed. Totally worth it!"

One has to wonder how long the new-Codex-every-X-years cycle can realistically continue. Once they've done DE/BA/Crons (assuming they are the next three), all the Codices will be more than sufficiently up to date, even without the minor changes that mark out the difference between 6th and 7th Ed Codices. What then?

aprilmanha
01-09-2014, 12:20
But is any of that worth paying £30 for? And I don't even just mean that in a price-complaint sense, just that surely even GW will realise that it's not enough new content to justify a new book.

"Oh, yay, a new Tau Codex just two years after the last one! Let's see what's changed for 7th Ed... Shadowsun is a Lord of War, there's an FOC that lets me take more Heavy Support (at the cost of Troops no longer taking objectives), and the first six results on the random objective table have changed. Totally worth it!"

One has to wonder how long the new-Codex-every-X-years cycle can realistically continue. Once they've done DE/BA/Crons (assuming they are the next three), all the Codices will be more than sufficiently up to date, even without the minor changes that mark out the difference between 6th and 7th Ed Codices. What then?

That was the thing, an update every 5-6 years, people had gotten enough out of their codex that it was ready for a change with a reshuffle and a couple of new units to add in.
Try to do that on a 2 year cycle with even smaller changes and its way to fast, and a £30 book suddenly is worth far far less...

Orkímedez
01-09-2014, 12:30
One has to wonder how long the new-Codex-every-X-years cycle can realistically continue. Once they've done DE/BA/Crons (assuming they are the next three), all the Codices will be more than sufficiently up to date, even without the minor changes that mark out the difference between 6th and 7th Ed Codices. What then?

Exactly, that's my point, I personally don't believe GW can milk the cow that fast anymore. It could work out in a 5-6 years spam but for sure, not in a 2years basis.

Model-rules release is a potential solution, although the WD is too fluffy (well, so are dataslates).

Could we see models designed to/for supplements?

shabbadoo
01-09-2014, 12:34
Eldar and Chaos Space Marines still need 12+ units *EACH* covered in plastic. I have no idea how these two relatively popular armies got shunted to the wayside so far as plastic support is concerned.

Darke
01-09-2014, 13:48
It would be nice to see a true new faction. I don't really count Imperial Knights. It's been something like 13 years since Tau were introduced, and 12 years since Necrons were fully fleshed out.

Mr. Ultra
01-09-2014, 14:00
The Rumour about CSM being on the cards for next year does not surprise me.

Wait, what? What rumour? New CSM Codex?!? If true it's great news, I despise the current codex and I've been waiting for plastic Cult Troops since 1999!!

MajorWesJanson
01-09-2014, 20:07
Eldar and Chaos Space Marines still need 12+ units *EACH* covered in plastic. I have no idea how these two relatively popular armies got shunted to the wayside so far as plastic support is concerned.

Because like Orks, they are some of the original armies, and had a much larger base of units in existence before the shift to plastic. Having 20 units in metal takes a while to convert over when you are only updating say 2 old units at a time, and adding 2 new ones.

Orks still need 5-6 units + characters in plastic, even with their recent release.
Dark Eldar need 6-7 units + characters, and they had a massive revamp and several waves of models.

nosebiter
01-09-2014, 20:13
Single model releases, campaign arcs like Sanctus Reach, never codexes updated to 7th but model less, terrain, plastification of the miniatures range.

aprilmanha
01-09-2014, 22:33
Because like Orks, they are some of t...ship

And yet, rather then getting people excited for new plastic models that these armies have been waiting for over 10 years in some cases, GWS is ignoring the needed things and instead releasing new models...

I've wanted new models to make an awesome Kult of Speed list for years, but yeah... that's not happening.. but why? Kult of speed is one of the best ways to play the orks!

Master Sheol
01-09-2014, 22:38
Do you really think that GW wouldnt take the opportunity to revamp 6th Edition dexes to 7th???
Yes GW leave half of the dexes without LoWs, peculiar FOCs, peculiar psychic powers (where applicabile), formations and so on???
GW is shrinking and such non sense model towards 7th Edition would be a suicide...

My 2 cents

GoodCarl
01-09-2014, 22:57
Hopefully they're rushing to get all the codices out of the way so they can give 40k what it needs and deserves: a complete rewrite from the ground up. Exterminatus if you will.
Out of the ashes can then rise a modular game system that scales the rules based on the size of game you are playing.

aprilmanha
01-09-2014, 23:09
Hopefully they're rushing to get all the codices out of the way so they can give 40k what it needs and deserves: a complete rewrite from the ground up. Exterminatus if you will.
Out of the ashes can then rise a modular game system that scales the rules based on the size of game you are playing.

Well they have already taken some queues from Video games, they have already dropped the numbering system for the version of the game :P

Mr. Ultra
01-09-2014, 23:18
Well they have already taken some queues from Video games, they have already dropped the numbering system for the version of the game :P

Is that a fact?

09philj
01-09-2014, 23:18
Hopefully they're rushing to get all the codices out of the way so they can give 40k what it needs and deserves: a complete rewrite from the ground up. Exterminatus if you will.
Out of the ashes can then rise a modular game system that scales the rules based on the size of game you are playing.

Keep dreaming. Dreaming is good. Also, be prepared for disappointment.

DoctorTom
01-09-2014, 23:36
There hasn't been an edition that's seen all codices brought up to date since 3rd, and I doubt we will with 7th. There are quite a few paradigm changes that mark 6th ed books as no longer current. Most notably LOW characters, alternate FO charts and objectives and a lack of troops shuffling.

We will see 8th ed, or a major update to 7th, before we've got all books up to 7th. And there will be many supplements and dataslates, almost none, if any, of which will be worth the asking price :(

Yeah, it will be hard for them to get all of the codexes a proper update before next year when they release 8th edition (but probably released without mentioning a number). :shifty:

MajorWesJanson
02-09-2014, 02:17
Yeah, it will be hard for them to get all of the codexes a proper update before next year when they release 8th edition (but probably released without mentioning a number). :shifty:

No, we should have some relief. I expect next year to be Fantasy 9th, with these End Times books being like Escalation and easing people into new mechanics like allies/mixed armies and lord of war/Nagash sized beasties before they consolidate it into the core rules.

aprilmanha
02-09-2014, 07:43
Is that a fact?
As far as I can see, its only the fans who refer to this as 7th edition.
GWS does not think of it like that.

vlad78
02-09-2014, 15:18
As far as I can see, its only the fans who refer to this as 7th edition.
GWS does not think of it like that.

GW did not think of 1.5 or 2nd edition like that at the time. It's the 7th edition, period.

And if they call the next one 7th too, it wil be the (8th called 7th) ;)

Mr. Ultra
02-09-2014, 15:41
GW did not think of 1.5 or 2nd edition like that at the time.

I have White Dwarfs from the 1998-2005 period that refers to the 3d edition as 3d edition, the previous one as 2nd and the next as 4th edition.

red_drake
02-09-2014, 15:45
Were 5th and 6th edition referred to as such?

Mr. Ultra
02-09-2014, 15:58
Were 5th and 6th edition referred to as such?

That, I don't know, it was the period I quit the hobby.

aprilmanha
02-09-2014, 16:23
Were 5th and 6th edition referred to as such?

I was sure that the front covers of 3rd 4th and 5th all had clues in the design that referred to the version number and some little W40k secrets, though I cannot remember what they were meant to be now!
I remember being saddened when the 6th ed book came out though, its like they had forgotten about this slowly evolving symbol of the w40k universe.

Mauler
02-09-2014, 16:43
No, we should have some relief. I expect next year to be Fantasy 9th, with these End Times books being like Escalation and easing people into new mechanics like allies/mixed armies and lord of war/Nagash sized beasties before they consolidate it into the core rules.

This.

It's difficult to say really as GW don't offer any kind of release roadmap unlike other sectors that hold my interest. 40k is clearly their main product these days so I fully expect the remaining codices to be released by the end of Q1 next year, then I imagine it will be Fantasy & supplements for a bit until the new Chaos Marine codex is out. The Design Studio is fully aware that people want cults so if their interests align then we should see those, preferably with some 'slates on the side. If GW stick to the current two-year development cycle whatever new Chaos plastics are in the new book will've had the tooling done and sprues in production by now.

Zion
02-09-2014, 17:10
After all the codexes are updated? 8th edition. :P

DoctorTom
02-09-2014, 17:22
It's difficult to say really as GW don't offer any kind of release roadmap unlike other sectors that hold my interest

You mean unlike everyone else in the world? ;)

nosebiter
02-09-2014, 17:34
You mean unlike everyone else in the world? ;)

Cough*apple*cough

Gonefishing
02-09-2014, 18:29
Personally I predict they will keep on throwing out new codexes and supplements (which contain the things that used to be in your codex like changes to force org [not that this really matters anymore]) at a break net rate, with little to no play testing and at a premium price (absurdly premium for digital copies). When they have milked this cow for all they are worth they will release 8th edition (prob 2016) and begin the whole process again, but at higher prices and with even less content as they attempt to milk even more cash out of a more rapidly diminishing player base who have lost all will to continue buying / keep up with, the breath-taking amount of crap flying out the doors of GW HQ ;)

obithius
02-09-2014, 19:27
Were 5th and 6th edition referred to as such?

4th ed has a skull on the front cover with a big IV on its forehead :-)

Sephillion
02-09-2014, 20:08
There are multiple possibilities.



Updates on a model basis. They release a new SM tank? They also release a dataslate and/or print the rules in WD.
Faster Codex updates. They start re-updating codices again. So once they’re all done, it’s CSM, DA, etc. all over again.

3. Expansions (a bit like PP). Books, accompanied with a few models, including scenarios, formations and the dataslates for the accompanying models. Might include a few armies at a time.

Charistoph
02-09-2014, 20:28
As far as I can see, its only the fans who refer to this as 7th edition.
GWS does not think of it like that.

Actually, they did at announcement and launch. Only players really care about refining the differences, though. We're the ones who obsess over if a codex was 3rd Edition or a 3.5, not them. At best, they look at production/copyright dates to make sure they can retain rights.

obithius
03-09-2014, 11:09
My belief is that they will continue updating the codexes and supplements until 8th ed arrives in a year or two, and then start again. That's what they've been doing for 20 years, can't imagine why they'd change- so long as people are happy to keep paying for the same thing, they'll keep doing it. I would.

Cheeslord
03-09-2014, 13:57
It certainly seems like shifting content out to supplements is the big ticket item this year. It does allow greater variety in each army and some of the supplements may also include new models rather than simply models removed from the codices at the last rewrite.

I suspect we will see a new wave of supplements once the majority of codices have been updated to 7th (at least all the pre-6th ones), since there are a lot of possibilities for these (the less popular SM chapters, the CSM chapters, eldar craftworlds and exodites, Tyrranid swarms, Necron tombworlds, gurad regiments, Ork clans... virtually every army has subdivisions not fully addressed in the current rules).

Hopefully most of these will include a new model or two...

Mark.

Mauler
03-09-2014, 14:28
Personally I predict they will keep on throwing out new codexes and supplements (which contain the things that used to be in your codex like changes to force org [not that this really matters anymore]) at a break net rate, with little to no play testing and at a premium price (absurdly premium for digital copies). When they have milked this cow for all they are worth they will release 8th edition (prob 2016) and begin the whole process again, but at higher prices and with even less content as they attempt to milk even more cash out of a more rapidly diminishing player base who have lost all will to continue buying / keep up with, the breath-taking amount of crap flying out the doors of GW HQ ;)

Less content?! What books are you reading?

Tyranids:
5E: 32 units, 96 pages
6E: 34 units, 104 pages

Marines:
5E: 47 units, 144 pages
6E: 58 units, 175 pages

Wolves:
5E: 34 units, 96 pages
7E: 40 units, 104 pages

Dark Angels:
4E: 27 units, 88 pages
6E: 38 units, 105 pages

Guard:
5E: 39 units, 104 pages
6E: 42 units, 104 pages

Tau:
4E: 19 units, 65 pages
6E: 26 units, 104 pages

Eldar:
4E: 32 units, 68 pages
6E: 40 units, 107 pages

Those are just the books I have to hand to quickly look through and count unit headers. Less content indeed. If this were Facebook there's be a picture of Gene Wilder playing Willy Wonka with a patronising comment right here.

:P

Konovalev
03-09-2014, 14:33
Marines:
6E: 58 units, 175 pages

6ED Marines is the largest codex to date isn't it? I don't remember any 40k codex ever being that large.

Mauler
03-09-2014, 14:59
6ED Marines is the largest codex to date isn't it? I don't remember any 40k codex ever being that large.

The new Nagash stuff aside, aye I believe it is. The biggest got bigger.

DoctorTom
03-09-2014, 16:25
Less content?! What books are you reading?

Probably things like the 7th edition Grey Knights Codex, which had half it's units removed from the previous edition, or Imperial Knights, which made an entire codex out of two units. Or maybe Codex: Militarum Tempestus, which certainly doesn't have that many unit entries. Or possibly the online Codex: Inquisition. Or Codex: Legion of the Damned. :p

Zion
03-09-2014, 17:40
The new Nagash stuff aside, aye I believe it is. The biggest got bigger.
And some people still want to bloat it even further by rolling all the loyalist Marines into it.

Dominoris
03-09-2014, 18:25
Guard:
5E: 39 units, 104 pages
6E: 42 units, 104 pages

I count 45 units IF you count every Hellhound(3) and Russ(7) variant and every infantry platoon squad(5) as a different unit. Otherwise it's 33 unique units.

I really wish I was home right now and could get the number of units per codex for the Sisters of Battle.

Charistoph
03-09-2014, 19:09
Less content?! What books are you reading?

Tyranids:
5E: 32 units, 96 pages
6E: 34 units, 104 pages

Marines:
5E: 47 units, 144 pages
6E: 58 units, 175 pages

Wolves:
5E: 34 units, 96 pages
7E: 40 units, 104 pages

Dark Angels:
4E: 27 units, 88 pages
6E: 38 units, 105 pages

Guard:
5E: 39 units, 104 pages
6E: 42 units, 104 pages

Tau:
4E: 19 units, 65 pages
6E: 26 units, 104 pages

Eldar:
4E: 32 units, 68 pages
6E: 40 units, 107 pages

Those are just the books I have to hand to quickly look through and count unit headers. Less content indeed. If this were Facebook there's be a picture of Gene Wilder playing Willy Wonka with a patronising comment right here.

:P

Format is completely different with 7th as opposed to the late 4th-6th styles. Bestiary and army list are in the same section, now, reducing room. Army lists are 1-2 pages per unit instead of 1-5 units per page, increasing space needed. Formations and new Detachment styles have been added, too. The new codex style is just too different for such a quick side-by-side comparison to informative or useful.

However, individual unit fluff has dropped considerably.


And some people still want to bloat it even further by rolling all the loyalist Marines into it.

It wouldn't be as bloated as you think. Aside from the Puppies different unit formations, at least 75% of the Angel units are C:SM, anyway, and aside from the Flyers and the LS Storm, all the Vehicles match.

Leave most of the Special Characters to Supplements, and you're good.

Formerly Wu
03-09-2014, 20:10
However, individual unit fluff has dropped considerably.
Note that that's not necessarily a bad thing. Many fifth edition unit entries suffered from having to stretch out each individual unit's fluff to page length, even when it wasn't warranted. The seams often showed in the form of repetitive, increasingly hyperbolic descriptions and half-baked hero stories where (x unit) wiped out an entire (enemy unit y) all by itself.

Personally I find that trend more to blame for the lackluster fluff of fifth edition than any of the inflammatory-but-ignorable Ward-isms.

Zion
04-09-2014, 04:38
It wouldn't be as bloated as you think.

Considering it's often called "too full" already, I think it would be.


Aside from the Puppies different unit formations, at least 75% of the Angel units are C:SM, anyway, and aside from the Flyers and the LS Storm, all the Vehicles match.

You forgot the DA in that as well. And all those unique units would have to be locked out to specific chapter tactics too. That just makes it even more of a headache for list building. I'm not saying that we need to split the book up, but we definitely don't need to roll the other three Marine armies into it (I'm excluding Grey Knights because they are so drastically different there is no point adding them in).


Leave most of the Special Characters to Supplements, and you're good.

I disagree; supplements are meant to stand on their own without needing regular updates everytime the codex gets a new book (meaning each release of that codex should, in theory, add a new supplement to the mix, if not two). Putting special characters in them means they need updating more often and takes time away from other supplements that could be developed instead.

Charistoph
04-09-2014, 05:11
Considering it's often called "too full" already, I think it would be.

Again, not really, but then it's really about all about the approach.


You forgot the DA in that as well. And all those unique units would have to be locked out to specific chapter tactics too. That just makes it even more of a headache for list building. I'm not saying that we need to split the book up, but we definitely don't need to roll the other three Marine armies into it (I'm excluding Grey Knights because they are so drastically different there is no point adding them in).

Oh, no, I didn't forget the DA, I DID say Angels. And yes, about 75% of the DARK ANGEL codex is little different from Codex: Space Marines. They even have their own Tactics already built in. They're crap, but they are there.


I disagree; supplements are meant to stand on their own without needing regular updates everytime the codex gets a new book (meaning each release of that codex should, in theory, add a new supplement to the mix, if not two). Putting special characters in them means they need updating more often and takes time away from other supplements that could be developed instead.

And it wouldn't really take that much to update them, either. But then, I suppose it largely depends on the direction they're taking the codices at that point. They've done it before after all. Poorly, but they've done it. They are far more capable of keeping up with them now then they ever have been.

Mauler
04-09-2014, 12:50
Probably things like the 7th edition Grey Knights Codex, which had half it's units removed from the previous edition, or Imperial Knights, which made an entire codex out of two units. Or maybe Codex: Militarum Tempestus, which certainly doesn't have that many unit entries. Or possibly the online Codex: Inquisition. Or Codex: Legion of the Damned. :p

Both "Knights" codices; fair enough but they're hardly the norm. The others are supplements though so are another matter (and format) entirely.



I count 45 units IF you count every Hellhound(3) and Russ(7) variant and every infantry platoon squad(5) as a different unit. Otherwise it's 33 unique units.

I really wish I was home right now and could get the number of units per codex for the Sisters of Battle.


I didn't count every individual variant as I'm at work and skimming through the books but if you wanna bump it up from 42 to 45 then I'll not argue. lol


*hides the spoon*

Zion
04-09-2014, 17:51
Again, not really, but then it's really about all about the approach.

Which, historically, hasn't been a great one.


Oh, no, I didn't forget the DA, I DID say Angels. And yes, about 75% of the DARK ANGEL codex is little different from Codex: Space Marines. They even have their own Tactics already built in. They're crap, but they are there.

No need to get snippy when both Angels are plural names. I have no excuse for blanking and thinking you were only talking about the BA, but still, it's not really a reason to snap at me.


And it wouldn't really take that much to update them, either. But then, I suppose it largely depends on the direction they're taking the codices at that point. They've done it before after all. Poorly, but they've done it. They are far more capable of keeping up with them now then they ever have been.

Again, it defeats the purpose and intent of the supplements if they need to be updated every edition. Yes they can be, but they're not supposed to be.

DoctorTom
04-09-2014, 17:57
Both "Knights" codices; fair enough but they're hardly the norm. The others are supplements though so are another matter (and format) entirely.

No, they're not. Every one I listed is listed as a codex, not just a dataslate or a supplement. That's why each of their entries starts with "Codex". As such they count as codexes, even though they're only online (except Militarum Tempestus, that was also a hardback). You don't get to ignore them just because they're inconvenient for your point.

DoctorTom
04-09-2014, 17:59
Again, it defeats the purpose and intent of the supplements if they need to be updated every edition. Yes they can be, but they're not supposed to be.

Where has GW stated that?

Charistoph
04-09-2014, 18:16
Which, historically, hasn't been a great one.

Well, I can't argue that one. We all know that's true. Buy hey, miracles can happen. I know many believe it will happen about the same time as peace in the Middle East.


No need to get snippy when both Angels are plural names. I have no excuse for blanking and thinking you were only talking about the BA, but still, it's not really a reason to snap at me.

Well, it did seem rather derogatory on how you addressed it.


Again, it defeats the purpose and intent of the supplements if they need to be updated every edition. Yes they can be, but they're not supposed to be.

As DoctorTom said, "Where has GW stated that?" That's just an assumption based on the fact that they haven't included new units in to a supplement as yet. This is something that could just as easily change with the next book. Every single army out there, with possible exception of the Tau due to relative size, has more than enough room to supplement out new units with.

Just Tony
05-09-2014, 02:43
Where are we headed? More lipstick promises of "one book, one ruleset from here on out" and another sweeping rewrite that will invalidate the hundreds of dollars you spent getting everything 7th Ed. current. If history is any indicator, at least.

Fangschrecken
05-09-2014, 05:57
Where are we headed? More lipstick promises of "one book, one ruleset from here on out" and another sweeping rewrite that will invalidate the hundreds of dollars you spent getting everything 7th Ed. current. If history is any indicator, at least.

There can be only one!

But seriously, I figure that they'll start doing more supplements. I'm praying for a Mercs list because that could be done with only a couple new spures (or zero if they're lazy). Unbound, hopefully, signals that they'll start making less conventional lists. Ex: right now I can make a genestealer cult list from unbound tyranids and guard (and maybe inquisition) what's to say they won't see that and just make a list for it? Maybe even a clampack patriarch?

That or they could relaunch sisters in all plastic. I've heard teenage girls have more disposable income than teenage boys, so if that's the age group they're targeting it would make sense to redo sisters.

GoodCarl
07-09-2014, 13:38
Where are we headed? More lipstick promises of "one book, one ruleset from here on out" and another sweeping rewrite that will invalidate the hundreds of dollars you spent getting everything 7th Ed. current. If history is any indicator, at least.

40k has gone full circle. 7th edition is where 2nd was in 1998: lots and lots of different books, supplements, datasheets etc in lots of different places. It's just rather than publishing it all in WD, they charge for it as a separate entity.

GW seem in a massive hurry to get all the codices out as quickly as possible. After reading them recently the SW and GK books were laughable updates: Rolled up bestiary and army list together with streamlined special rules. It was like reading a 3E codex with a WD fluff article bolted on to the front. The GK 5E book might have been beardy but it was full of flavour. This sort of writing smells of 'get them out quick'.

7E is IMO a mess of a game. GW need to spend a good few years writing 8E with a focus on a scalable ruleset that loses detail and nuance as the points level rises, making 1000pts the core game size. This way those craving detail can have it in smaller games where the minutae matter whereas those playing the larger 2-3000+ battles can have a faster time* At the centre would be a WFB-style FoC and unbound would be opponents discretion.

*Getting rid of dice rolling for mathhammer. 1000pts: BS4 hits on a 3+, 2000pts BS4 means 2/3 of shots hit. Roll to wound as normal.

ashc
07-09-2014, 14:08
Their whole release schedule is now based around 'get them out quick' so it is no surprise if the design has suffered.

Beppo1234
07-09-2014, 15:55
*Getting rid of dice rolling for mathhammer. 1000pts: BS4 hits on a 3+, 2000pts BS4 means 2/3 of shots hit. Roll to wound as normal.

take rolling out of the game... no. However there are some random/dice driven mechanics that could be removed to expedience. Off the top of my head, I hate rolling for Apothecaries, I kind of want them just to auto save one wound per turn. I think taking dice rolling out of the core mechanics is a bad idea (ie shooting, cC etc), but for the more peripheral mechanics, rolling is kind of time consuming. Also, making a uniform dice scoring system would be good (ie. higher is always better, 1 always misses, 6 always hits) Change the way leadership tests are taken, so that they fit in with all the other dice scores

hobojebus
09-09-2014, 17:44
To think they won't redo 6th ed codexes this soon is naive, sure it's only been two years but they can alter a few points costs here and there add some new random kit and boom your down another £30.

Then in a year eighth will be rushed out again and guess how long that codex will last.

All they know is they have to wring every penny out of you before you get tired off it and go to play something else.

People mocked months ago when I said books were going to be their new earner, but I point you to the nagash book and say to thee all I told you so.

Felwether
09-09-2014, 17:55
People mocked months ago when I said books were going to be their new earner, but I point you to the nagash book and say to thee all I told you so.

The Nagash book isn't exactly a rush job update like Grey Knights though, it's a 400 page tome with lots of nice new stuff in it. Great release for Fantasy.

Charistoph
09-09-2014, 18:43
People mocked months ago when I said books were going to be their new earner, but I point you to the nagash book and say to thee all I told you so.

They are as they ever were, ways to sell the models. The only books that have come out without an accompanying model release were the Rules and Supplements. With Nagash, we have the largest non-Terrain Fantasy model created, a triple kit to create one of 3 models almost as large, and then there are the Undead Daemon Princes that are coming out later on. If anything, the Nagash books are an excellent counter to your argument, rather than in support of them.

aprilmanha
09-09-2014, 22:03
They are as they ever were, ways to sell the models. The only books that have come out without an accompanying model release were the Rules and Supplements. With Nagash, we have the largest non-Terrain Fantasy model created, a triple kit to create one of 3 models almost as large, and then there are the Undead Daemon Princes that are coming out later on. If anything, the Nagash books are an excellent counter to your argument, rather than in support of them.
Then we present the Grey Knight codex, that kindly removed a whole lot of models to give one less reason to buy them :)

Charistoph
09-09-2014, 22:14
Then we present the Grey Knight codex, that kindly removed a whole lot of models to give one less reason to buy them :)

Which are now in two different codices, and they delivered a new box for them. Admittedly, it was just the old box times two, but it's a new box.

aprilmanha
09-09-2014, 22:24
Not really new models though :P

I can't imagine any O&G players were happy then they "Rereleased" the standard Boys box a couple of years ago :P

And I don't think anyone ever can claim it is a good thing that they are told they need to buy 2 codex's and an extra dataslate just to do the exact same army they had the day before :)

DoctorTom
09-09-2014, 22:27
Which are now in two different codices, and they delivered a new box for them. Admittedly, it was just the old box times two, but it's a new box.

Two codexes and a dataslate, given assassins aren't in the Inquisition Codex. And, if you want hardback codexes, you have one codex and GW saying "No Inquisition for you!".

Mauler
10-09-2014, 14:34
No, they're not. Every one I listed is listed as a codex, not just a dataslate or a supplement. That's why each of their entries starts with "Codex". As such they count as codexes, even though they're only online (except Militarum Tempestus, that was also a hardback). You don't get to ignore them just because they're inconvenient for your point.

Nope, they're not covered by my Supplements comment and are covered by my previous post: on average the new books have more content than the old ones. Having three which are a tad thinner doesn't swing that in your favour given that they're not as expensive as the normal codices; Inquisition is 25% cheaper and Damned is half the price!

Tempestus though..mwer.