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View Full Version : Ogres is three the magic number????



Sgt_Hudson
23-06-2006, 08:46
Hey guys just trying to work out an ogre army with no gnoblars so Units of three or four??? basically i'm going for numbers so as many small units of big guys as possible

Snoozer
23-06-2006, 09:55
I would say four, you get a lot more attacks that way, but I would also take 1 or 2 big units that can auto break the opponent by outnumbering them.

But if the whole idea is to take a lot of small units, then maybe take units of 3, you don't lose so many ogres when a unit panics and flees, and you would have a lot more units.

So what I am saying is, decide yourself ;)

:D

T10
23-06-2006, 10:17
3 wide allows for more maneuverable units: 25% less movement is spent on wheeling compared to a unit 4 wide. There is also the issue of frontage crowding - several wide units tend to get in each other's way when moving around terrain and other units.

However, with a 4 wide unit you can still get every model into combat with even the basic 4x4 block of 20mm based infantry. That's a lot of impact.

-T10

Sgt_Hudson
23-06-2006, 10:18
cheers guys

Milgram
23-06-2006, 11:26
units of three ogres: forget the command besides probably the champion (and even then: only put in a champion against players with 'hard' champs. nothing as frustrating as fighting against a 10 point goblin-champion with a 50 points champion.)

gukal
23-06-2006, 13:20
If you are going "horde" ogres (if you can call it that). You will often find that you don't have room to bring all your minimum-sized units to bear. If so, give some thoughts to 5-Ogre units.

When I do this, I deploy either 3 or 4 wide with an Ogre or two trailing behind. This formation is somewhat helpful against armies which inflict a moderately heavy amount of (non-penetrating) missile or magic damage.

You will greatly reduce the number of panic tests en route to the enemy (because they need to inflict 6 wounds on T4 models rather than a mere 3 wounds). The base cost of a unit this size (naked bulls) is reasonable. A unit of 5 can give lookout sir rolls without the banner/gnoblar combo. A unit of 5 has US15 and can occassionally autobreak an enemy after a good round of combat.

If the enemy has multiple rank penetrating or multi-wound template weapons, then being 5-strong is less helpful because you are generally two-ranks deep.

This is just food for thought. I sometimes throw this setup at my regular opponents as a surprise and have had some success.

- Gukal

Your Mum Rang
23-06-2006, 13:28
One thing most people do is use 4 but deploy the front rank 3 and one in the rear rank.

This way the unit it a lot less inviting to flank chargers as they now face 2 Ogres insead of 1. The unit then still retains its manoevrability and has good US.

DeathlessDraich
23-06-2006, 18:39
The most difficult ogre army I faced, I think it ended in the top 30 in the GT tournament, had all its units of 3. Lots of them!

2 units of 3 Yhettees
2 units of 3 Ironguts
3 units of 3 Bulls

3 Butchers and a well equipped tyrant
plus a Slave Giant.

It destroyed the myth that ogres are weak against a shooting army by overwhelming a wood elf army and my SAD Skaven.

As for flanking: That was practically impossible with so many ogre units

Goq Gar
23-06-2006, 18:43
Id take that out with a skink army. About 10 units of skinks for that cost i believe? No, way more than that, and with 2 priests. I wouldnt need to flank, enough shooting to take them out with quick wounds.

Ganymede
23-06-2006, 19:19
Skinks don't work very well against massed ogres. if the skinks slow down enough to shoot, there is no way they would be able to outrun the monsters. And with so many ogre units, it will be impossible for the skinks to get around their formation.

Goq Gar
23-06-2006, 19:49
Ah yes, you're right. Id have to rely on heavy magic then or a solid saurus wall AND I MEAN SO-LID!

Shimmergloom
23-06-2006, 19:56
I've seen some ogre players experimenting with the torpedo formation.

1 wide, 3 deep. 3 units deployed like this next to each other. Maybe 6 or so units like this total in the army. So they have 3 S6 bull charge impact hits and their 9(12 if they have 2hw) regular attacks.

CarlostheCraven
23-06-2006, 20:43
Personally, I like units of 4 ogres, and well equipped at that - LA and IF. Sure, the Iron Fist is about as helpful as a wet paper bag when it comes to missile protection, but the flexibility in CC is so great. The 4+ armour save comes in handy against str 3 units that fight in ranks or that have poison. I experimented with naked bulls for a while, but they consistently got rocked by higher initiative, poison wielding units like Ghouls and Gutter Runners.

4 strong also means your opponent has to do twice as much work to negate your bull charge (6 wounds to 3 wounds).

The drawback of 4 strong is that you take panic tests if you lose one ogre. Which is why you have a Tyrant with Kineater nearby for ld 9 with a re-roll. 5 strong would also take care of that, but it gets really unwieldy, though you could havea "trailer" in the second rank.

Cheers

Sgt_Hudson
23-06-2006, 20:51
Just kinda worked out an army here goes....

Tyrant Longstrider,sword of battle,heavy armour,spangleshard,thief stone
Bruiser Mawseeker,siege breaker,heavy armour
Butcher Blood Cleaver, dispell scroll
3 x iron guts
4 x iron guts with std with canibal totem
3 x bulls add hw
4 x bulls iron fists
3 x leadbelchers
3 x leadbelchers
3 x maneaters
slave giant

need to drop 80 points but i think its fairly big for an ogre army of just ogres

DirtJumper
23-06-2006, 21:50
It is very possible: skinks are skermishers, and always "move at the double" (march) with m6, while the Ogres will be stuck with a march-blocked m6, and will need to change facings to get to the skinks, which then dart back in front of them, all the while shooting, because skirmishers can do it while moving at the double. Oh yeah, and Lore of the Heavens rocks.

alextroy
23-06-2006, 23:28
It is very possible: skinks are skermishers, and always "move at the double" (march) with m6, while the Ogres will be stuck with a march-blocked m6, and will need to change facings to get to the skinks, which then dart back in front of them, all the while shooting, because skirmishers can do it while moving at the double. Oh yeah, and Lore of the Heavens rocks.
While Fast Cavalry can march and shoot, Skirmishers may not fire shoot if they move more then their standard Movement characteristic (see WFB page 115).

Alextroy

Adlan
24-06-2006, 07:30
Skinks have javalins, which can be thrown after marching.

WarSmith7
24-06-2006, 07:50
Skinks have javalins, which can be thrown after marching.

Uh, sure....

Latro
24-06-2006, 08:22
Skinks have javalins, which can be thrown after marching.

Nope, Javelins are thrown weapons ... just check the rules on thrown weapons (BRB page 90) and you will notice the part about not being able to march and shoot/throw.


:cool:

Latro
24-06-2006, 08:27
It is very possible: skinks are skermishers, and always "move at the double" (march) with m6, while the Ogres will be stuck with a march-blocked m6, and will need to change facings to get to the skinks, which then dart back in front of them, all the while shooting, because skirmishers can do it while moving at the double. Oh yeah, and Lore of the Heavens rocks.

Nice theory, but a lot harder in practice ...

If the Ogre army has enough units to cover the front with charge-arcs and have some units in second line to cover the gaps of the front-line, no Skinks will be able to slip through. Especially when some of those units feel very much at home in difficult terrain.

... large numbers and good charge-reach means bad news for Skinks.


:cool:

kyussinchains
24-06-2006, 17:57
I've found that smaller units of ogres really do work better, I used to take 7 ironguts with the tyrant, the plan was to get loads of high strength impact hits, then expand frontage or lap round.

Strangely enough it didnt work!

I use smaller units nowadays usually 4, or 3 with a character, tends to work okay

ZomboCom
24-06-2006, 19:45
Skinks have javalins, which can be thrown after marching.

No they can't.

DirtJumper
25-06-2006, 01:09
Sorry, I thought skirmishers could move and shoot, thanks for clearing that up. Skinks are annoying to get your hands on, but they are generaly just annoting at blocking march moves, they aren't that great at killing anything (besides Giants, of course :P) But the OK need to march, or else they're moving as slow as Dwarfs, and against a shooty army like the Southlands Lizzy list, that's a very bad thing. Protecting your flanks and rear is definatly vital for any army, and especially OK. As to the 3 wide, I find this is the optimum nuber, because you get the most out of your unit, with no wasted points in ranks, While this is true for 4 wide as well, I find 4 is much too wide, and it gets tricky to maneuver them.