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Dkrewe
02-09-2014, 00:01
So I cannot afford to buy any Phoenix Guard or White Lions right now, so wanted to make a 1500 point list using what I do have. Here is what I came up with so far:

Core:
x15 Lothern Sea Guard (5x3)
x5 Ellyrian Reavers with bows
x14 Archers with Hawkeye (one of the 14) (5x3)

Special:
x15 Swordmasters (5x3) with Musician
x9 Dragon Princes with Drakemaster and Musician

Rare:
x1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Lords:
x1 Archmage lvl 4 with Dispel Scroll (in with the Archers)

Heroes:
x1 Noble (in Dragon Princes formation) as Battle Standard Banner
on Elven Steed with Ithilmar Barding, Lance, Dragon Armor, Charmed Shield

x1 Noble on Great Eagle (proxy of the model from the Isle of Blood box model)
with Armour of Fortune, Great Weapon, and Ironcurse Talisman (will face cannons)

All of that brought me to 1496 points total. The only debate I am having is that if I make the Noble on the Great Eagle my General, I feel he is too squishy. I COULD give him Dragon Armor, Shield of Merwyrm, a Lance for charges, the Biting Blade, and keep the Ironcurse Talisman and I would still be at 1498. However, with str 4 and no 2-handed weapon he would be hitting kind of weak vs heavily armored opponents. I will be facing Dwarves and WoC. I am trying not to take the BotWD or the Cloak of Beards because I feel it would be a bit cheesy.

Anyone have any advice for me?


PS: in reserve unused I have some more archers and spearmen, a chariot (not assembled yet so could be either one), and about 5 more Swordmasters

Adohan
02-09-2014, 07:38
Right first Archemage needs a ward save 5+ min and 4+ preferred. I think 2 Characters is enough for 1500 point.


Sword-masters I find get shoot and magiced off the table, the only way I have found to fix this is run them in units of 5s or take large block, banner of the world dragon and a Lvl 4 high wizard in there ranks for 2+ ward v magic and 6+number of spells cast in a turn v Shooting. So lose Noble on great eagle and maximums sword-master plus the banner of cheese. Also run them 7 wide to maxiumise attacks.


Lastly Drop archers down to 10 and change lothern Sea Guard to spear men and fill with remaining points. That way you should be pushing forward with three combat blocks, whilst your archers and bolt throwers pick of the chaff and weaken the scary things.

Your mage placement I think come down to spell lore chosen as range is an issue as archer normal want to start the game 8" from the table edge and not have to move.

EvanM
02-09-2014, 16:55
Only thing i am gonna say is take book of hoeth over dispel scroll and consider taking a loremaster of hoeth over the archmage. 8 spells. 8 fricken spells. 8 different lore attributes possible. are you kidding me? its EPIC! plus you get to wear armor

at 1500 pts the swordmasters are fine. some people do some stupid things with them and run them with BOTWD but thats cheap. basically if they kill your swordmasters then they arent killing something else!

give the noble on horse the ironcurse icon or crown of atrazare (basically another wound) AND the noble on eagle the charmed shield for the cannons (you may have mixed it ip but a 2++ one time vs cannons is better than a 6+ every time because it only takes once for you to get cannoned off the table) also you could just go for crown of atrazar on the eagle guy AND the charmed shield. that way you block 2 cannon balls.

Dkrewe
02-09-2014, 21:09
Only thing i am gonna say is take book of hoeth over dispel scroll and consider taking a loremaster of hoeth over the archmage. 8 spells. 8 fricken spells. 8 different lore attributes possible. are you kidding me? its EPIC! plus you get to wear armor

at 1500 pts the swordmasters are fine. some people do some stupid things with them and run them with BOTWD but thats cheap. basically if they kill your swordmasters then they arent killing something else!

give the noble on horse the ironcurse icon or crown of atrazare (basically another wound) AND the noble on eagle the charmed shield for the cannons (you may have mixed it ip but a 2++ one time vs cannons is better than a 6+ every time because it only takes once for you to get cannoned off the table) also you could just go for crown of atrazar on the eagle guy AND the charmed shield. that way you block 2 cannon balls.

Thanks for the ideas. I don't have a model for a Loremaster but I do have one for an archmage (courtesy of Isle of Blood box). As for the guy on the Great Eagle, I was concerned that with just a hand weapon and no great weapon that I wouldn't be able to damage high armor and toughness targets. I didn't give the ironcurse icon to the BSB noble because it was already on the noble on the eagle.

Also, I forgot to mention I have 10 shadow warriors laying around as well, but I have heard that they are not really worth their points.

EvanM
02-09-2014, 21:49
i use my IoB archmage as a loremaster right now because i HATE high magic and i cannot figure out which basic lore i like with high elves. so do that for a while!

the noble on eagle is a good unit to fly around the back of people and attack wizard bunkers. lance is fine on him, or a great weapon. still you NEED crown of atrazar and charmed shield most likely for him, just because you dont have other monsters to be cannon bait

TheItalian567
03-09-2014, 17:48
EvanM - Try Shadow. I was running it last weekend. I dropped Pit of Shades on a OK deathstar and just blew it apart utterly. They make an initiative test, so it just wrecks house. Also, Okkam's Mindrazor or whatever it is that makes their LEADERSHIP their STRENGTH. I put it on my Swordmasters w/ Razor Standard to make them a Str 9, AP, two attack killing machines.

Dkrewe - I think you have a solid list, but it's spread too thin.

- You have a low unit count on your LSG (and honestly after trying two games with them, I'm thinking of saying mine are spearmen as their bows just aren't worth it between trying to move them up the line and getting shots off. You can still move and shoot, but you do suffer the penalty, and with their range, you're likely to suffer a second -1 to hit)
- You have a low unit count on your SMs
- Trust us, Book of Hoeth you're going to love on that Archmage. I've yet to use my Loremaster because I love my archmage, but like Evan said. 8. Spells. 8. Damn. Spells. I kit my Archmage with crown of altrabrabzlrzoraorzorr and book of hoeth.


Because I too have not bought my Phoenix Guard or White Lions, I am doing something very similar as all I have is IoB + some archers and silver helms from my first try at High Elves.

Your noble on the Great Eagle? give him a Reaver Bow and charmed shield- he'll be able to rove around and pick off Dwarf war machines as he's a roving Repeater Bolt Thrower. I give him Dragon Armor and a GW as well.

If you want to put your noblewith the dragon princes, realize that they're going to get targeted fast and would benefit from either some extra protection or damage mitigation. I really want to run a 10 man bus for my Dragon Princes, but I'm worried about it because that's a juicy points target. You could try running two units, one of 5, one of 4 (with noble) and see how that works as far as having two targets to choose from. Let us know how the 10-man unit works.

For your BSB, I'd just give him Crown of Command + enchanted shield or something of the sort. That'll make your Dragon Princes stubborn which is quite nice.


Note on Shield of Merwyrm: It can be taken with a magic weapon- which is great, BUT! You cannot get a parry save on a horse :( Or else I'd be using that thing non-stop.

Dkrewe
07-09-2014, 19:27
So I tried to take some of the advice you guys gave about too many points in the Dragon Prince bus as well as needing more Spearmen and SMs for maximizing the three ranks. Also, the Reaver Bow on the Noble on the Great Eagle is a fantastic idea for taking out war machines or things in the back ranks. This is what I have come up with:

Core
x18 Spearmen
x14 Archers (one as a Hawkeye)
x5 Silver Helms with shields

Special
x21 Swordmasters (with musician)
x4 Dragon Princes (with Drake Master and musician)

Rare
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Lords
Archmage (in Archers bunker)
+level 4
+Book of Hoeth

Heroes
Noble on Elven Steed (Dragon Princes formation)
+Ithilmar Barding
+Lance
+Dragon Armor
+Shield, Golden Crown of Atrazar
+BSB

Noble on Great Eagle
+Great Weapon
+Dragon Armor
+Reaver Bow
+Charmed Shield
+Ironcurse Talisman

Does this seem a bit better? I am still very new to this and have not played much so am working with little experience. I have however agreed not to take the Banner of the World dragon at this point range as it is just friendly games so will not be adding that.

What I have in reserve: x5 Ellyrian Reavers and x10 Shadow Warriors and about 5 more Archers

TheItalian567
09-09-2014, 23:11
The issue I see is that you have two very small cavalry blocks here, neither one being particularly safe for a noble to hang out in. With the Dragon Princes there's too few for them to deliver him to the enemy.

Think of a bus like this: you want a relatively low cost unit to transport a very high priced character right in to the heart of the enemy.

Your spearmen are really too small to make much of a difference, you could even drop them outright, add more Silverhelms up to either 8 or 12, and drop in your reavers and/or shadow warriors (in groups of 5). The Noble on the Eagle fits better if you're going up to 2500 points. I'd take him off the Eagle, make him a BSB and giving him Crown of Command for your Swordmasters to make them stubborn. Crown of Command + Shield of Merwyrm and he's 4/4++

For your mounted noble.. give him the sword of anti-heroes.. +1 str/att for each character. CHAMPIONS COUNT AS CHARACTERS.. Then add Crown of Atrazar for the one off ward save

Glorfindel
12-09-2014, 14:51
Hey, you need to have a at least 5 Dragon princes. The units size is 5+ in the army book. Remember, they can't target your noble's eagle, only the noble and he gets an extra wound from the eagle.

Mannfred
13-09-2014, 05:02
If your insisting on cavalry just got for silver helm core; with the banner of world dragon. Dragon princes don't do enough to justify the premium. Overall high elf core is the armies weakness. Beside the two units of reavers there's no need to spend extra points there.

Another thing is BSB. It's more beneficial that he be on foot with the 4+ parry shield combo ed with the ring of khaines fury. It may seem silly but it'll boast his ward to a 3+ , give Swordmasters a 5+ from shooting. Yes I actually find High Magic to be ridiculous.

Level 4 with a Book of Hoeth gives u insane amount of offensive potential especially when ur doing High Magic. You can two dice nearly every spell. The Level 4 needs to be in the unit with the World Dragon Banner. There's no other options unless u want to risk death via miscasts...making it useable against miscasts was the most bs thing.

Eagle Noble is fine. Charmed shield sure is nice but in reality any realistic opponent will just shoot u with a magic spell first or use some crummy throwing weapon on u before rolling the cannon ball. If u want to protect ur Eagle noble also be between the cannon and an enemy unit. The rules stat for a cannon it must be placed where there is no chance of hitting a friendly unit hence the spot must be placed 20' from them. Hence it is very unpractical that ull be hit by it cause u can charge it down safely from 15' away. Careful placement = a 1+ ward save.

Swordmasters are the bottom of the barrel in the elite infantry section. A Loremaster maybe good in low points games but itself is also impractical since the best u can have is a 2+ armour, A level 4 with High Magic and a 4+ ward save is way safer.

Dkrewe
14-09-2014, 04:59
So I am trying to take some advice here. Yes the spearmen were small. Also, the BSB being in the DPs was pretty crazy I guess. Noticing that Silver Helms do about the same job, just with less attacks. Since I see they won't do much outside of the charge then I am assuming the extra 8 points per model are not really worth it for a 6+ ward save and 2 attacks instead of 1 (also, my core needed the boost to be legal for 1500 points).

What I have:

Core
x21 Spearmen
x14 Archer
x1 Hawkeye (protect Wizard from challenges)
x10 Silver Helms

Lord
x1 Archmage (in unit of Archers)
+level 4 Wizard
+Book of Hoeth

Rare
x1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Special
x20 Sword Masters of Hoeth
x1 Bladelord (protect BSB from challenges)
x1 Musician

Heroes
x1 Noble (in unit of SMs)
+Dragon Armour
+Shield of Merwyrm
+Biting Blade
+Khaine's Ring of Fury
+Battle Standard Bearer

x1 Noble
+Great Eagle
+Dragon Armour
+Charmed Shield
+Ironcurse Icon
+Reaver Bow

That brought me to 1498 points total. I will be proxying my Dragon Prince models as the Silver Helms. The only models not used are going to be my Shadow Warriors and my Reavers and a chariot. I am not going to be buying any more High Elves for quite some time too so am trying to do the best with what I have.

Still looking for more advice as I have gotten some really good suggestions from this forum.