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View Full Version : how come nurgle is the best? (both Woc and Doc)



EvanM
02-09-2014, 04:15
i dont know what mark of nurgle does or what nurgle daemons do or whatever but i am wondering why they are "the best".

its probably a simple answer but what is it?

personally if i did DoC id do khorne just for the bloodletters

russellmoo
02-09-2014, 04:40
I think some would argue that tzeentch is the best. You see a lot of nurgle because plague bearers are the best core choice, and plague beasts and plague drones are also really good choices. However, when it comes to characters tzeentch tends to out perform the others.

EvanM
02-09-2014, 04:52
whats so good about plague bearers?

i think theyre ugly.

if it was me id do 2 big units of bloodletters + chariots + a monster character guy as most of my army even if thats sub optimal because i love the look of bloodletters

MOMUS
02-09-2014, 05:13
In a lot of tournamnets you're just as likely to see horror units spammed for the obvious reasons.

different marks are good on different things

rolly_321
02-09-2014, 05:20
tzeench magic law isn't as good as it should be but WoC can do some silly stuff with ward saves.
Slanesh is the cheapest, and this can be seen when you take deamonets or slanesh marked units. They do have some funny Ld gimmicks though.
Corn is tasty but lacks magic in a magic dominated meta.
Nurgle has a great magic law and its mark effect is always handy.

All are playable though.

EvanM
02-09-2014, 06:42
i was just wondering why 1/2 the daemons lists i recently saw were over half nurgle.

Lorcryst
02-09-2014, 07:02
Mark of Nurgle gives a -1 To Hit to your opponents ... combined with the Fear of the Plaguebearers and their WS3, it can be devastating : failed Fear check = WS1, vs WS3 = hitting of 5s, -1 To Hit = hitting on 6s ...

With Chaos Warriors and their already good WS5, that means an already hard unit is even harder to hit ...

The magic lore is nice, but not as devastating as Death magic.

The nasty trick with Nurgle DoC armies is the Heralds with Greater Locus of Fecundity ... 4+ regen is more than nice, and with a bit of magic you can boost that to 3+ ... combined with Fear and the -1 To Hit, Plaguebearers are a steel-solid anvil unit.

Plague Drones are really tough, and the flies themselves hit hard, the Beasts of Nurgle are an must-include horrible unit, it's only the Nurglings that are a bit "meh".

Oh, and the Daemon Prince in the WoC army is a beast in itself, but with a WS of 9 and -1 To Hit + Terror, it's almost unkillable.

pinktaco
02-09-2014, 07:06
i dont know what mark of nurgle does or what nurgle daemons do or whatever but i am wondering why they are "the best".

its probably a simple answer but what is it?

personally if i did DoC id do khorne just for the bloodletters

Since nobody answered: nurgle give your opponents -1 To Hit in CC. This also applies to demons
demons. However if you have a warrior with halbard you now have a great setup without compromising. High WS, 4+ armour and +1S is great along with -1 To Hit.

If you take khorne you just get one additional attack, which is fine just not as good. The other two give +1 ward and immune to certain effects such as panic, I believe.

Personally I find nurgle to be ridiculous compared to the other. Take the gorebeast chariot for instance. -1 To Hit, WS5, T6 and 3+ armour. Now compare this to the razorgore beast from beastmen and you have a clear difference.

Or how about chaos Ogres vs regular Ogres? Suddenly they have MoN and are quite superior.

MoN on a spell caster also gives the option to take more of death. This is especially useful on a demon prince who can fly up the flank of a low initiative unit and use purple sun.

These are just a few examples.

In terms of Doc the rest are just too expensive and not as good. I believe plague bearers can have T4, regen on 5+ and -1 To Hit so a good anvil that won't run/panic.

Beasts are ridiculous for their stats vs point cost and I believe the flying ones should be alright.

Lorcryst
02-09-2014, 07:12
In terms of Doc the rest are just too expensive and not as good. I believe plague bearers can have T4, regen on 5+ and -1 To Hit so a good anvil that won't run/panic.

Plaguebearers are WS3 T4 S4 Poisonned Attacks 5+ Ward for 6.5 Skaven Slaves each, and can get 4+ Regeneration with a Herald with Greater Locus of Fecundity in the unit ... add to that the Nurgle spell that boosts Regeneration by 1 point (for a 3+), Fear and Daemonic Instability, and they are indeed a very solid anvil that can still dish some damage.

And then add Epidemius and his Tally to the mix, and they quickly become nasty ...

Metacarpi
02-09-2014, 11:28
Plaguebearers are WS3 T4 S4 Poisonned Attacks 5+ Ward for 6.5 Skaven Slaves each, and can get 4+ Regeneration with a Herald with Greater Locus of Fecundity in the unit ... add to that the Nurgle spell that boosts Regeneration by 1 point (for a 3+), Fear and Daemonic Instability, and they are indeed a very solid anvil that can still dish some damage.

And then add Epidemius and his Tally to the mix, and they quickly become nasty ...

This is precisely why I started evolving my DoC list to be more of a 50/50 mix of gods, straight up 100% Nurgle with Epi gets really nasty, really quickly.

Lorcryst
02-09-2014, 11:59
I'm a devotee of Papa Nurgle myself since the long gone days of 4th edition, and I field a "pure" Nurgle army, but I don't use Epidemius and usually play 1000 to 1500 points games with it, so not enough points to really bring the nasty comboes (I usually play without magic at 1K for example), but it's still a pain for some of my opponents (my uncanny luck with regen save doesn't help either).

I have lots more than that painted (see my plog, link in my siggy), but I don't own an Epidemius model, nor do I plan on fielding him when I'll finally bite the bullet and buy one for completeness' sake.

Never used more than 3 Plague Drones too, they're hard as nails and a royal pain as they are :p

But I cannot seem to make the other God's units work for me, to the point where I'm selling my Slaanesh Daemons, at low point levels with Slaanesh you can't really bring enough magic levels to get the right comboes of spell off to make the Daemonettes deadly (2 attacks with high Init/ASF are nice, but S3 is not enough to make a dent in WoC/Dwarf/OK, my usual opponents), Tzeentch really needs a lot of small Horror units and a couple of Heralds to try to spam magic missiles (meaning you're at the mercy of the Winds of Magic) and I didn't really have any luck while trying Khorne daemons ...

EvanM
02-09-2014, 13:47
why does khorne need luck? arent 20 bloodletters a force to be reckoned ith? (i thought they had 2 wounds but they changed it)

underscore
02-09-2014, 14:22
Nah, Bloodletters are nothing to be scared of these days, though Killing Blow is obviously a danger for some units. I mean, they're not as bad as much of the internet says, but that doesn't make them good either.

Lorcryst
02-09-2014, 15:40
My personnal lack of luck with Bloodletters is never rolling a Killing Blow, having the opponent make all his armour saves (they're only S4, S5 on the turn they charge) [but then I was fighting against Warriors of Chaos of Tzeentch], getting solidly beaten in combat resolution, and then going *POOF* with Daemonic Instability.

I only tried them in a couple of games, and using proxies too, but while I can make 4+ regen saves most of the time, I cannot do the same with 5+ ward saves, and I suffer more wounds with the Bloodletters due to their T3 ...

Ok, I'll admit, I'm the kind of player that prefers durability over punching power, but still, not convinced by the 'letters.

EvanM
02-09-2014, 16:58
BLOODLETTERS ARE T3????? WTF

i thought they were S5 all the time, had 2 wounds, 2 attacks, had T4, and a 5++.... crud. wow. cannot believe that. Although Killing blow is nice. basically you need static combat res for bloodletters to actually work. T4 would at least be nice.

Lorcryst
02-09-2014, 17:26
Yup, M5, WS5, BS5 (:wtf:), S4 (+1 when they charge due to the Mark of Khorne), T3, W1, I4, A1, Ld7 ... 6+ Scaly Skin, 5+ Ward, Magic Resistance (1) and Killing Blow from their Hellblades for 7 Skaven Slaves each (the most expensive Core unit in the DoC book too).

You really need ranks, say something like 25-30 minimum 5-wide, and a Herald with Greater (Frenzy) or Exalted (Hatred) Locus in the unit or on a Blood Throne within 6 inches to make them work ...

Okay, like all DoC units they cause Fear, and with their high-ish WS they tend to hit on 3s, but they're a glass cannon unit without guaranteed results ... if you don't roll those 6s to wound, they won't munch through anything with a decent armour (WoCs, any heavy Cavalry, Ironbreakers/Dwarfs with shields in general, in short all the armies in my local gaming group).

Bloodcrushers have the same problem, the Juggernauts are only T4 (:wtf: again, a big beastie like that is as tough as an orc), they do have a nice-ish 4+ armour save (6+ Scaly Skin and "Brass Behemoth" rule for a +2), at least they're S5 and have the Mark (so S6 on the charge for the Juggies) and have three Attacks, but at 32.5 Skaven Slaves each (min 3) that's one hefty investment for a Monstrous Beast with Init 2 and a "standard" Bloodletter on top ...

Dunno about the Bloodthirster tough, the only time I fielded one in a thematic Khorne force (1 BT, 1 big unit of BLs, 2 units of Fleshounds) I rolled the Blood and Glory scenario against a Dwarf gunline, it took a cannon ball to the face first turn, failed the 5+ ward, suffered 6 wounds, and I was below my Breaking Point and lost the game in less than 15 minutes, deployment included ...

EvanM
02-09-2014, 17:53
bloodcrushers are 62 skaven slaves? and daemonic unstability while demisgryphs are only 29 skaven slaves....? what?


wow i feel bad for khorne dude. i'll take that into account in my new recosting mechanic

Lorcryst
02-09-2014, 17:59
Whuuups, that was a typo, sorry ... the correct price in WarSeer lingo is 32.5 Skaven Slaves ... still more expensive than Demigryphs.

EvanM
02-09-2014, 18:35
demis are unbelievable though. they are undercosted even before they got T4 from a faq

Captain Collius
03-09-2014, 02:19
Also its important to note the earlier you can modify a stat the better it is ergo -1 to hit is better than -1 to wound. This isn't always true but is a decent rule of thumb

popisdead
03-09-2014, 15:54
-1 To Hit is an underrated mechanism for how good it is.

Add that they have the only Heralds who can end up with high T, Regen, the Fencers Blades paired with their mark to only be hit on 6s.

Beasts of Nurgle being 1+, having a high number of attacks and regen is powerful for a re-director.

In Warriors having high WS, init, an amazing Toughness, lots of attacks on the Gorebeast, then add -1 to hit that and it will be winning combat more often than not on it's own.

Their lore is good too. For your average player the best lore in that book (unless a better player brings Slaanesh).

Rakariel
03-09-2014, 18:22
i thought they were S5 all the time, had 2 wounds, 2 attacks, had T4, and a 5++.... crud. wow. cannot believe that. Although Killing blow is nice. basically you need static combat res for bloodletters to actually work. T4 would at least be nice.

You thought a Core unit had two wounds a model, S5, 2A, T4 and a 5++? Seriously? Whatever you are smoking, you might wanna reconsider doing that again :wtf:;)

EvanM
03-09-2014, 18:38
You thought a Core unit had two wounds a model, S5, 2A, T4 and a 5++? Seriously? Whatever you are smoking, you might wanna reconsider doing that again :wtf:;)

hey bloodletters are the scariest unit ive ever seen so yes!

Rakariel
03-09-2014, 18:47
hey bloodletters are the scariest unit ive ever seen so yes!
Following this logic humans should have 1s across the board. And a skullcannon would be a 10 overall....no wait forget the latter we are talking about scariest not shitiest looking ;)

Lorcryst
03-09-2014, 19:06
Honestly I find the Mournfangs much scarier than the spindly looking Bloodletters, without even going to their stats in the game ... those huge mounds of tusks and fat (and that's without the ogre on top of it), when seen alongside a humble Empire Spearman are absolutely horrifying ...

EvanM
03-09-2014, 23:54
mournfang charging you would be scary. monsters would be worse.

N00B
07-09-2014, 08:40
You thought a Core unit had two wounds a model, S5, 2A, T4 and a 5++? Seriously? Whatever you are smoking, you might wanna reconsider doing that again :wtf:;)

Well chaos trolls under Throgg have this and their regen is better than 5++, Chaos warriors are not far off. Ogres get three attacks and three wounds. Savage orc biguns are like that on the charge (6++ not 5++ by themselves though (and if you want the extra wounds you can just take more of them)

Lorcryst
07-09-2014, 09:00
Regeneration is ALWAYS 4+, check page 74 of the rulebook, it's a special kind of ward save nullified by fire, and it can be boosted by the Lore of Nurgle, but don't confuse if with a "normal" ward save that can be anywhere from 6+ to 2+ and is not negated by flaming attacks.

Lord Dan
07-09-2014, 09:16
i dont know what mark of nurgle does or what nurgle daemons do or whatever but i am wondering why they are "the best".

its probably a simple answer but what is it?

personally if i did DoC id do khorne just for the bloodletters

It is a simple answer: -1 to hit is incredible, and it works all the time. I'd rather see it make the Nurgle units physically tougher, not harder to hit.

I think you also need to change the other marks around a bit:

Khorne: +1 WS and Frenzy.
Slaanesh: +1 I and ASF.
Tzeentch: Roll on a chart for temporary +1 to a non-wound, non-Ld characteristic each turn, +1 Ld.
Nurgle: Scaly Skin (5+) or Regen (5+), Fear.

Lord Dan
07-09-2014, 09:19
Regeneration is ALWAYS 4+, check page 74 of the rulebook, it's a special kind of ward save nullified by fire, and it can be boosted by the Lore of Nurgle, but don't confuse if with a "normal" ward save that can be anywhere from 6+ to 2+ and is not negated by flaming attacks.

I don't have my book on me, but how do you explain the Terrorgheists regen (6+) and Crypt Horror's regen (5+)?

Nubl0
07-09-2014, 09:33
Honestly given that the plaguebearers come with a 5+ ward already I never really bother with regen locus. Seeing as a lot of nasty things have regen in the game now most people I play will be rocking the flaming banner or have a lvl 1 fire wizard to strip regen/burn elves. Just seems like a very expensive thing to be potentially nullified, I have however been having great success with the poison 5+ locus. Makes them quite competent in melee imo.

As for bloodletter shaving bs 5? Well they are the war gods demons, and war involves shooting. Plus the dark elves player's face when you announce that your skullcannon is going to grapeshot his dark riders at bs5 all day long, they really can do everything.

Also regen if not stated what type it is is always considered a 4+ but in many cases (such as the Tghiest and Crypt horrors) it will say what their regen save is. For example my necrotect gives animated constructs regen 6+ whereas the hellpit abomination just has the special rule regeneration so it's a 4+ by default.

Lorcryst
07-09-2014, 09:40
I don't have my book on me, but how do you explain the Terrorgheists regen (6+) and Crypt Horror's regen (5+)?

The usual caveat from GW's rulebooks : "unless specified otherwise" ...

More specifically :



Whilst the type of regeneration described above is the most common form, some creatures do have a lesser or greater chance to regenerate. Where this is the case, the score required to regenerate will be shown in brackets after the special rule, e.g. Regeneration (5+) would indicate that the model had the Regeneration special rule, but that it only worked on a 5+, whilst Regeneration (2+) would mean that the creature would pass its regeneration save on a 2 or more !

CountUlrich
07-09-2014, 13:19
It is a simple answer: -1 to hit is incredible, and it works all the time. I'd rather see it make the Nurgle units physically tougher, not harder to hit.

I think you also need to change the other marks around a bit:

Khorne: +1 WS and Frenzy.
Slaanesh: +1 I and ASF.
Tzeentch: Roll on a chart for temporary +1 to a non-wound, non-Ld characteristic each turn, +1 Ld.
Nurgle: Scaly Skin (5+) or Regen (5+), Fear.

I agree w them needing revamping, but on your proposals I would say Khorne and Nurgle are fine, you just made Slanesh the new Nurgle of over powered-ness and Teeth is underpowered.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Lord Dan
07-09-2014, 15:08
I agree w them needing revamping, but on your proposals I would say Khorne and Nurgle are fine, you just made Slanesh the new Nurgle of over powered-ness and Teeth is underpowered.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Obviously it would need some tweaking, but I think the point is that they need to be balanced in a way in which they're all worth taking, just in different capacities.

underscore
07-09-2014, 22:09
Obviously it would need some tweaking, but I think the point is that they need to be balanced in a way in which they're all worth taking, just in different capacities.
Well, it's a bit different to Warriors as most units don't have a choice in their alignment (the only 3 are DPs, Furies and Grinders). Having a standard rules seems kinda redundant as that could just be part of the unit's special rules anyway.

Personally, my pick would be:

Khorne: +1 S and A on the charge
Slaneesh: Auto-pass all characteristic tests (maybe just non magical ones...)
Nurgle: -1 Leadership in base contact (doesn't stack)
Tzeentch: +1 to channel, re-roll 1s to saves

Though I'd rather have more flexibility with gifts than a better alignment rule, speaking as a Khorne player.

N00B
07-09-2014, 22:53
Wow. Tzeench knights would be a bit good.

underscore
07-09-2014, 23:35
Ah. I forgot this thread was for Warriors as well! Those were all Daemon suggestions. :-)

Dark_Mage99
07-09-2014, 23:45
I've found bloodletters to be effective in big units of 30-40.

Plaguebearers are good anvils, but really don't cause many wounds.

People like to use them because they're hard to kill, and in Daemons you have a lot of other stuff that does cause wounds, so it's nice to have something to anchor the line.

I think a lot of it also comes down to the BSB.

You can only use the general's leadership and the BSB rerolls if you are of the same mark - and people love the other Nurgle units like Beasts of Nurgle and Plague Drones.

If you want to help them out, you need a BSB, and you need him to be Nurgle too. And he needs somewhere to go - Plaguebearers.

Rakariel
08-09-2014, 09:51
Well chaos trolls under Throgg have this and their regen is better than 5++, Chaos warriors are not far off. Ogres get three attacks and three wounds. Savage orc biguns are like that on the charge (6++ not 5++ by themselves though (and if you want the extra wounds you can just take more of them)
You are considering a SC which I never do because they are just not allowed in tourney play around here. Still, even if you do consider Throgg (borderline broken good in his own right), you are adding a SC to a unit which we didn`t do with Bloodletters. Its like saying Welfs are better if I add Hellebron. Secondly, you are talking about Trolls, costing nearly tripple the points of a single bloodletter. They should damn well be better stats wise. Apart from that we all know that Trolls are too cheap for what they can do so theres that aswell. Chaos Warriors cost a few points more and only have a 6++ and only if they go Tzeentch, are not unbreakable and don`t have KB.

If you ask me, Bloodletters should be T4, have 2A or cost 1-2 less but other than that they are fine. In general its more in the special rules anyway. Plaguebearers are good because of Nurgle -1hit. If Khorne had a better special rule it could look quite differently regarding their effictiveness.

olderplayer
09-09-2014, 01:57
Many GTs now allow special characters more generally with the 8th edition books. There are only a few exceptions in my region of the US.

Mark of Nurgle -1 to hit is so good for this reason: Suppose that the average opponent rolls to hit on a 4+; making them hit on a 5+ instead is the equivalent of a 5+ ward save (reduces the unsaved wound rate by one-third). in combat, plague bearers are S4 with poison and T4 with a 5+ ward save; this makes the -1 to hit almost like an additional second ward save.
The beast of nurgle is perhaps the best use of lore of nurgle with -1 to hit, T5, a 5+ ward save and a 4+ regen save. A solo beast can charge a unit, put out some wounds and take very few wounds in return with the regen, -1 to hit, T5 and 5+ ward save. Beasts of Nurgle are one of the more undercosted units in the game right now with their poison attacks, large number of wounds, -1 to hit, T5, and saves.

For Nurgle Deamon Prince in WoC, the high WS means hitting of a 6+ against units with WS4 or less and 5+ for all but a few selected characters (or except for a unit with lore of light boosting to WS10). An unbreakable Daemon Prince with -1 to hit and with soul feeder becomes almost invulnerable in combat with infantry blocks where the thunderstomps rack up addiitonal unsaved wounds on the opposing unit and feed to soul feeder rolls to recover wounds. Additionally, Lore of Death (which is the common BRB lore option for Nurgle wizards) is one of best lores for a Nurgle caster (soul blight and purple sun can wreck units and a character in closer range can use the death sniping spells and generate additional power dice).

In warriors of chaos, Nurgle chariots have WS5, as do many other Nurgle models. Also, with access the lore of shadow in slaanesh, a simple miasma spell reducing WS to 2 or less and low WS units (zombies, skeletons, skinks, ...) are now hitting on 6's and wounding oftten on 6's against T5 and T6 chariots. One player I played against recently runs an army of almost all Nurgle chariots (17) plus a Mark of Tzeentch mounted BSB (with the re-roll ward save rolls of 1 and 3+ ward save) and a cheap general. It often runs over a lot of armies because of the impact hits plus multiple chariot attacks at S5 and the difficulties of hitting back with -1 to hit and the high AS.

decker_cky
09-09-2014, 14:24
For tzeentch, I've come to like the idea of units with mark of tzeentch gaining channeling for power dice, or getting +1 to channel power dice if they were already a wizard. Add 6+ ward or reroll 1's for wards if they already had one. Two useful, but overall relatively marginal abilities.

Do something similar with khorne - maybe channeling dispel dice, and reroll 1's to hit?

Slaanesh immune to psych (there was never a reason for super immune to psych) and armour piercing?

For nurgle, I actually like the 6th edition rules applied to 8th - fear and characters get +1 wound. If units already cause fear, then enemies in base to base contact reroll successful fear tests or something?

Slaanesh for daemons and other ItP feels a bit weaker than the others, but I think those are in the right range of what the marks should be.

mostlyharmless
09-09-2014, 16:54
Giving Mark of Slaanesh Immune to Psychology is actually alot worse than what they have right now. If they are Immune to Psychology, they can't flee, which makes the mark completely useless on fast cavalry.

Soundwave
09-09-2014, 16:57
Aside from those siding with Tzeentch this thread is all lies! :).

Lorcryst
09-09-2014, 17:17
Giving Mark of Slaanesh Immune to Psychology is actually alot worse than what they have right now. If they are Immune to Psychology, they can't flee, which makes the mark completely useless on fast cavalry.

Exactly. That's why the Seekers of Slaanesh in the DoC book are terribad.

Fast Cavalry unit that costs an arm, a leg and a nut, S3/T3, cannot flee as a charge reaction, 6+/5++, cannot be joined by a character ... oh yeah, 2 attacks for the riders, the Steeds have Poisonned attacks (at WS3) and an overall Initiative of 5 *could* be good, but they cannot perform the main role of Fast Cavalry (bait and flee) and are horrendously fragile.

I've tried Slaaneshi Daemons lots of time and always had the same results : they hit like a wet paper bag and have the survivability of the same paper bag ...

Anyone want cheap Slaaneshi Daemons ?

underscore
09-09-2014, 17:47
Wait... Why can't characters join seekers?

Lorcryst
09-09-2014, 17:52
Wait... Why can't characters join seekers?

Whuuups, my mistake, I forgot the line in the army list entry about Heralds of Slaanesh being allowed to take Steeds of Slaanesh as a mount, so if mounted on that they can indeed join Seekers units.

I was reading the Bestiary entry and there's only a mention of chariots in there ... sorry again !

Doesn't change the fact that at 10 Skaven Slaves per model, a Fast Cavalry unit that cannot bait and flee is mostly useless ... unless buffed with Shadow Magic to raise their S, with a Herald on a Steed that gives them ASF, etc ... but then, they are not longer a cheap throw-away Fast Cavalry unit, they become a main combat block, and are still as solid as a wet paper bag ...

Andy p
09-09-2014, 18:27
If you are playing a battle in which you've agreed to use the new percentages from the Nagash release, (or not needing to agree since I know there is still some debate about that), then Tzeentch could be quite nasty.

50% heroes worth of exalted flamers would be annoying to face, although it might require a lot of flamer units in order to use skirmish.

decker_cky
11-09-2014, 01:48
Giving Mark of Slaanesh Immune to Psychology is actually alot worse than what they have right now. If they are Immune to Psychology, they can't flee, which makes the mark completely useless on fast cavalry.

That's fine. Marauders never should have had marks so that's not a real issue (I'd remove marks from them altogether).

rolly_321
12-09-2014, 08:48
Captain collius, its an odd one due to how the rules function. -1 to hit is better than -1 wound, but strength is more important than ws. Its better to be hitting on 5s and wounding on 3s than vice versa if you have S4 or more, since it also effects armor.

jorgepo
12-09-2014, 13:38
Regeneration is ... a special kind of ward save ....

Important note: the mechanic is the same, but it is not a ward. So magic items that affect wards (OTS, Blade of Realities, etc.) have no effect on regen.

Captain Collius
12-09-2014, 13:46
Hi
Captain collius, its an odd one due to how the rules function. -1 to hit is better than -1 wound, but strength is more important than ws. Its better to be hitting on 5s and wounding on 3s than vice versa if you have S4 or more, since it also effects armor.

Ohh I definitely agree. Look at how much effect the frostheart phoenix's aura has on the game its -1swhich means -1 ap. Its ridiculous how much changing strength can effect the game. Try using enfeebling foe on chaos warriors nurgle halberdiers who hit at s2 are just sad

Lorcryst
12-09-2014, 14:13
Important note: the mechanic is the same, but it is not a ward. So magic items that affect wards (OTS, Blade of Realities, etc.) have no effect on regen.

You're quite right, it's not a Ward Save and has another set of rules, I was wrong in remembering the exact wording of the rulebook, specifically this bit :


A model with the Regeneration special rule is permitted a special regenerate saving throw after it failed any armour save it may have, instead of taking a ward save (if it has one). If a model has both a ward save and Regeneration, you must choose which save is used.

That's what happens with I post on WarSeer without my books in front of me :shifty:

mostlyharmless
12-09-2014, 21:27
That's fine. Marauders never should have had marks so that's not a real issue (I'd remove marks from them altogether).

The thing is, the other marks already outclass Slaanesh by a long shot. Making it worse will not see it getting used more often. The fact that it is only useful on Marauder Horsemen and Sorcerers is a major problem. Hell, I ever consider myself a goofball for using Mark of Slaanesh on my sword and board warriors. Should have a reason to use it beyond flavor purposes.

Josfer
16-09-2014, 09:58
Hell, I ever consider myself a goofball for using Mark of Slaanesh on my sword and board warriors. Should have a reason to use it beyond flavor purposes.
Bunker for MoS caster or sigvald. I think it's better to have MoS than to have them unmarked for the rare case of hellcannon and fear/terror tests (especially as lvl 2 bunker with "only" Ld8). On the other hand taking SnB with sigvald would be kinda nutcase ;) And MoS caster not on fast cav isn't that great too because of the short ranges.