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Dark_Mage99
08-09-2014, 01:06
Has anyone fought him yet?

How did you go about it? Did you just avoid him, or did you try to take him down?

EvanM
08-09-2014, 14:38
so far i saw him die once by combat res. perhaps all you need is a unit buffed up with a ward save that has rank bonuses so you pop him in one turn.

Banville
08-09-2014, 15:17
Holy moly. I think you'd need a combat res of +9 to do that! What was he fighting?

EvanM
08-09-2014, 15:17
Hahahahahaha

Witch elf horde + couldron of blood

Micalovits
09-09-2014, 09:27
Well... My tomb king HKB him in a game this weekend(thank you ASF light magic), so much for nagash breaking the tomb kings

Asuryan's Spear
09-09-2014, 13:43
2 cannons...2 turns and the lord of undeath was gone. He's like any monster, same weaknesess with the exception of of small high strength units

Bigman
09-09-2014, 21:25
He is big, but honestly, were you playing any impassable terrain? Stick him behind a wall...or a building...or an ETC hill with infinite height...

Any of that present on the table?

Montegue
09-09-2014, 21:36
He is big, but honestly, were you playing any impassable terrain? Stick him behind a wall...or a building...or an ETC hill with infinite height...

Any of that present on the table?

I don't think I'd play a game against Nagash with those stupid ETC/Other house rules. He could sit back there sipping a coffee while he summons an entire army for you to fight. No thanks.

Saldiven
09-09-2014, 23:02
He is big, but honestly, were you playing any impassable terrain? Stick him behind a wall...or a building...or an ETC hill with infinite height...

Any of that present on the table?

Wall only protects from the first cannon shot, assuming the initial deviation + bounce cross the wall. If the initial deviation carries the shot over the wall, it does nothing. Same thing for a building or other LOS blocking terrain piece; if the initial deviation takes the shot beyond the object that blocks targeting, it still hits. This is perfectly legal as the rules only require LOS to the initial declared target point.

Also, considering how huge some of the models coming out recently have been, the idea of "infinitely high hills" is just terrible. A hill that would block LOS to a group of 6' tall humans is not necessarily tall enough to block LOS to a Dragon, or other really big target.

EvanM
11-09-2014, 18:29
You know i dont really think hes OP. think about it. he barely starts with anything on the field, then he uses his magic phase to simply summon units. that uses dice. that means less other magic going off.

Spiney Norman
11-09-2014, 18:33
I don't think I'd play a game against Nagash with those stupid ETC/Other house rules. He could sit back there sipping a coffee while he summons an entire army for you to fight. No thanks.

Yep, terrain is bad for warhammer, anything that blocks a cannon shot should not be allowed because any unit that I cannot simply wipe out by pointing my cannon at them and clicking is hopelessly overpowered.

You know that walls and buildings are not 'house rules' right? They are there in the main rule book

As far as Nagash goes, try a light council, banishment at Str7/8 isn't too hard to achieve or failing that even a powered up shems could take a few wounds off him.

Catapults are also pretty good since Naggy is on such a huge base

EvanM
11-09-2014, 18:38
well itd be nice if you didnt NEED buildings/hill rules to fix the laser guided cannons of insta death. id rather see cannons do d6 S10 hits because then youd have a lot less chance of failing regens and wards and insta dying

Spiney Norman
11-09-2014, 18:41
well itd be nice if you didnt NEED buildings/hill rules to fix the laser guided cannons of insta death. id rather see cannons do d6 S10 hits because then youd have a lot less chance of failing regens and wards and insta dying

Well absolutely, but that isn't going to change before 9th at the earliest so we really just have to suck it up. However someone complaining that buildings and walls stop their cannon shots is a little beyond what I'm prepared to tolerate given how dominant cannons are in the current meta.

EvanM
11-09-2014, 18:56
well "lets fix cannons" has been discussed a gillion times and it gets no where, so for now, just dont be a D*** and take more than 2 cannons.

Rakariel
11-09-2014, 20:33
I don't think I'd play a game against Nagash with those stupid ETC/Other house rules. He could sit back there sipping a coffee while he summons an entire army for you to fight. No thanks.
Nagash is not allowed with ETC rules, hes a SC. So you will hardly see him if its a proper ETC game. Those "stupid" rules are actually there to avoid "stupid" broken things in every army, balance you know ;)
But as Spiney has already pointed out, taking a house as cover is something that is within the normal rulebook. But I guess its too much to ask for that monsters don`t get smoked in the first round.

I haven`t fought him yet but I guess a Light Council, cannons and strong close combat units will get rid of him without too much trouble.

Andy p
12-09-2014, 21:40
Well absolutely, but that isn't going to change before 9th at the earliest so we really just have to suck it up. However someone complaining that buildings and walls stop their cannon shots is a little beyond what I'm prepared to tolerate given how dominant cannons are in the current meta.

And it doesn't really stop them, it only stops the bounce that comes after the initial shot. Which is...to be polite, fcucking stupid.

But I shouldn't really feed the cannon hate. But yeah, my answer to Nagash would be...derpa derp de cannon de derp. Maybe a couple of bret knight buses could break him as well.

EvanM
12-09-2014, 22:26
you know using cannons on monsters isnt any different than using purple sun on saurus warriors

nagash may be able to be countered that way but it doesnt mean everything cannons do is unfair

Andy p
12-09-2014, 22:47
you know using cannons on monsters isnt any different than using purple sun on saurus warriors

nagash may be able to be countered that way but it doesnt mean everything cannons do is unfair

Cannons are arguably more reliable than purple sun, (particularly with the FAQ change to the power scroll), but yeah that's an issue too. I don't really see your point though, bringing up a different issue doesn't negate the original one.

My beef with cannons is how poorly they appear to have been thought out, not that they are unfair to certain armies, which by the way is the only reason to mention something like purple sun as a comparison. But I guess you were just replying to everyone who mentioned cannons.

EvanM
12-09-2014, 22:52
i agree. cannons were not thought out well. actually neither were stone throwers. right now, with either one, from hundreds of yards away you have a decent chance of dropping the template exactly on a single human sized model.
both of these things should be reliably accurate but not be a fricken sniper rifle

emirparkreiner7
16-09-2014, 20:44
I haven't fought Nagash but I used him against Dwarfs. I made it a priority to get him into combat with a horde of Dwarf Warriors where he couldn't get shot, could safely summon 1800pts of models, and slowly slaughter 30 steadfast Dwarfs who never wounded him. By the time he was done, the cannon and Organ Gun were mopped up. So the moral of the story is don't let Nagash hide in combat!

Tato
17-09-2014, 01:43
Didn't the Dwarf player try to multi-combat you and and kill Nagash on static res?

emirparkreiner7
17-09-2014, 07:38
Yeah he did. So I put 11 Crypt Horrors in front of him because he failed to dispel. I also feel like unless you're putting wounds on Nagash in combat, static res isn't as effective against him because he already reduces the number of Unstable wounds he takes by two.

Tato
17-09-2014, 15:37
Fully agree with the above.

I am asking because I am both a Dwarf and TK player and plan on using Nagash, but at the same time thinking on how to destroy him with my other armies. Thing is, I consider a Dwarf army as an especially difficult enemy for Nagash. Reason one: artillery, obviously. Reason two: high strenghth infantry which actually should make it tricky for Nagash to hide in CC.

Should I have a chance to take on Nagash with Dwarfs my list (considering I have the possibility to tailor build for this particular encounter) would be hordes of great weapon infantry equipped with Strollaz, a kitted out Lord for monster killing, artillery and, points permitting, some copters to take care of summoned chaff. My idea would be get in CC with Nagash if possible. I understand it is hard to choose fights if you move only 6" max but eventually if this happens I can hardly envision Nagash withstanding 20 S7 attacks from Hammerers or 15 S6 attacks grom GW Longbreards for long if all he has left then is his 4++ ward save. That's 2,5 unsaved wound form a combat block of H's and 1,88 from a block of LB's per combat phase.

emirparkreiner7
17-09-2014, 15:56
Hammerers will do the trick. Get ready to dispel any junk Nagash summons to get in their way (I fed them 60 Zombies, which they killed in two rounds of combat!) and bring him down. The game that this all happened, I definitely had the advantage of 'first time using Nagash'. I think the Dwarf player will be more prepared next time and hopefully I'll know how to counter that.