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View Full Version : Greenskins dealing with ASF (Pointy ears/heads)



Churchie123
09-09-2014, 23:40
So lately I've been losing a lot of games to both Dark and High Elves. Yes, Orcs and Goblins sometimes lose games due to their nature, and yes, often I lose games due to being a poor player, but I am wondering if there's something I'm missing when it comes facing ASF. At 2-2.5k I field up to 20 wolf riders (not in one unit...), two doom divers, 30+ savage big uns, 10 boars, a savage great great shaman (w/LSH), 50 night goblins with fanatic and battle standard and a few other bits. Not an optimal list but not a terrible one... And ASF is killing me. I guess, the second part is, can you ever reliably beat Crone lists using this kind of casual (ish) army or do I need to accept that won't happen? Cheers.

-Totenkopf-
09-09-2014, 23:50
Chariots.. You have access to some of the best in the game
Large blocks to weather them down..

You have some of the right elements there for sure.. Use you tools and your magic phase too.. Elves don't like foot of gork!

I always found greenskins to be a good matchup for pointy ears

Bladelord
09-09-2014, 23:55
Elves want board control so protect those Doom Divers well and use them to fend off all those pesky Dark Riders & Ellyrian Reavers. Try out Bosses on squigs if those pesky elves are trying to run away from your charges, random charge move can really be a blessing to have.

If their elite infantry are giving you trouble load up on chariots, pump wagons, mangler squigs, fanatics. Elves might have ASF but those units strike before ASF & elves hate getting hit.

Otherwise, the bigger the better I guess. Like I said elves really hate getting hit and even a goblin have a chance of killing an elf. 100 goblins doesn't cost that many points and will give elves a ton of trouble.

Mind you that I'm a footslogging Asur player and I'm not really a top notch player.

sephiroth87
10-09-2014, 06:26
So lately I've been losing a lot of games to both Dark and High Elves. Yes, Orcs and Goblins sometimes lose games due to their nature, and yes, often I lose games due to being a poor player, but I am wondering if there's something I'm missing when it comes facing ASF. At 2-2.5k I field up to 20 wolf riders (not in one unit...), two doom divers, 30+ savage big uns, 10 boars, a savage great great shaman (w/LSH), 50 night goblins with fanatic and battle standard and a few other bits. Not an optimal list but not a terrible one... And ASF is killing me. I guess, the second part is, can you ever reliably beat Crone lists using this kind of casual (ish) army or do I need to accept that won't happen? Cheers.

First, wolf riders are terrible against ASF. Bosses on wolves do it better. Next, the stuff about chariots is right. However, chariots really don't do as much as pumpwagons for the cost against elves. My normal chaff is 2 pumpwagons with spikyroller/outriggas, 2 mangler squigs, and 2 bosses on wolves. Next, in this meta (proliferation of ASF and elves), you are far better off with a defensive shooty list than with a take all comers or aggressive combat list. Big units of night goblins toting bows, nets, and lots of fanatics protect your war machines far better than anything else. I'd love to tell you that your list will work, but you will have to be relying on friendly opponent lists, very good gameplay, or luck to do well.

As for the second part, a unit of 70 night goblins with bows, nets, 3 fanatics, a unit of 50 with same, 2 units of 25 with bows and 2 fanatics, a spider banner bsb, orc great shaman, black orc general, manglers, pumpwagons, and a metric #@*% ton of war machines will usually break that dark elf list. Lots of shots will beat lightly armored troops most of the time.

Yowzo
10-09-2014, 08:52
Use lobbas instead of doom divers or, even better, in addition to them.

T3, low armour elves don't like being shot at with templates.

Add chariots, fanatics and manglers and you're set.

BorkBork
10-09-2014, 10:04
Apart from what people allready mentioned (shooting, impact hits etc), dont forget to bring some goblin mages and try to get itchy nuisanse off. It reduces movement and Initiative and with an avarage roll you can bring the Initiative down to Night goblin lvl (3) or even orc lvl (2). And without rerolls to hit dem pansies aint that tough anymore.

Also, you could bring some small squig herds, with a front rank existing entirely of goblins. That way, the elves are likely to kill all goblins in combat (cause they can only target the goblins) and then the unit explodes for massive damage. And even if they dont kill all goblins, the squigs will most likely be forced to the front rank and you get to do your attacks.

Bladelord
10-09-2014, 10:30
Also, you could bring some small squig herds, with a front rank existing entirely of goblins. That way, the elves are likely to kill all goblins in combat (cause they can only target the goblins) and then the unit explodes for massive damage. And even if they dont kill all goblins, the squigs will most likely be forced to the front rank and you get to do your attacks.

I'll have to remember that and use it when my Goblin army is finally assembled ready to WAAAGH!

EvanM
10-09-2014, 20:51
high elves dont have any template weapons or any unit with tons of attacks. a tarpit of 100 gobbos is nearly unkillable unless they use magic or they break you. so try that, especially against a deathstar unit. id try tarpittting half their army, and attacking the other half with sav orc big un horde, chariots, and artillery. break em there, run them down and hopefully they wont be able to do the same to your tarpitting flank.

against dark elves witch elves are your worst enemy. shoot every possible thing at them, dont take on witch elves unless theres less than 5 models left. they will cut through 100 gobos in like 2 turns. its rediculous

aprilmanha
10-09-2014, 23:02
Tons of 20 man gobo units with fanatics, those work great and always destroy every thing they touch, then doom divers and rock lobbers and you win :-)

Voss
10-09-2014, 23:10
So lately I've been losing a lot of games to both Dark and High Elves. Yes, Orcs and Goblins sometimes lose games due to their nature, and yes, often I lose games due to being a poor player, but I am wondering if there's something I'm missing when it comes facing ASF. At 2-2.5k I field up to 20 wolf riders (not in one unit...), two doom divers, 30+ savage big uns, 10 boars, a savage great great shaman (w/LSH), 50 night goblins with fanatic and battle standard and a few other bits. Not an optimal list but not a terrible one... And ASF is killing me. I guess, the second part is, can you ever reliably beat Crone lists using this kind of casual (ish) army or do I need to accept that won't happen? Cheers.
Yes, you've effectively lost in the list building phase. You've got quite a lot that will fall over dead to just about anything and very little with any ability to inflict damage (and is quite vulnerable to kiting)

Fighting Newfoundlander
11-09-2014, 00:31
Next, in this meta (proliferation of ASF and elves), you are far better off with a defensive shooty list [....] Big units of night goblins toting bows, nets, and lots of fanatics protect your war machines far better than anything else. I'd love to tell you that your list will work, but you will have to be relying on friendly opponent lists, very good gameplay, or luck to do well.

As for the second part, a unit of 70 night goblins with bows, nets, 3 fanatics, a unit of 50 with same, 2 units of 25 with bows and 2 fanatics, a spider banner bsb, orc great shaman, black orc general, manglers, pumpwagons, and a metric #@*% ton of war machines will usually break that dark elf list. Lots of shots will beat lightly armored troops most of the time.

I think this gets it right. I don't have any experience against the 'high' variety since their new book, but for any elf really, I think you're better off if you can force him to you. You can out shoot either of those armies, though I think the dark elf repeater barrage can make it dicey if the DE player invests heavily in them. Your warmachines are the best. Getting decent spots for all the chuckas can be a job, but when you can put out 10, that's T-E-N, warmachines out for 540 points it`s actually hard to lose the shooting war. The other big advantage you have here is that your units will be larger and thus harder to panic, or reduce below a level where they cease to be effective. Go defensive and make all them elves cry :evilgrin:

theunwantedbeing
11-09-2014, 01:18
At 2-2.5k I field up to 20 wolf riders (not in one unit...), two doom divers, 30+ savage big uns, 10 boars, a savage great great shaman (w/LSH), 50 night goblins with fanatic and battle standard and a few other bits. Not an optimal list but not a terrible one... And ASF is killing me. I guess, the second part is, can you ever reliably beat Crone lists using this kind of casual (ish) army or do I need to accept that won't happen? Cheers.

A couple of things to try.
1. Split everything into as many minimum size units as possible and run that for a few games.
You'll likely not win, but you will start to appreciate how to use a tonne of units and the strengths and drawbacks.
2. Double up on anything that can hurt the enemy.
Chariots specifically, but also fanatics, war machines and cheap fighter heroes.
You run them together (except the machines that you spread out so you can't lose more than one to a single charge) but not as a single unit.

When fighting an enemy that will easily kill you in close combat, you want to aim to flank charge them with something that will hurt them enough to stand a reasonable chance of making them break. So when the enemy charges you, you flee unless sticking around will expose the enemies flank better.

Churchie123
18-09-2014, 22:48
Cheers for the ideas guys. Lots of reasonable suggestions, I think that I'd lost perspective a bit and couldn't figure out why the army I've been regularly beating Empire and Dwarfs with doesn't work on Elves. It turns out that was the key to it. Remember they're fragile and expensive, duh!