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View Full Version : Terminator armour can still be made.



Karhedron
22-03-2005, 21:51
This was just a small observation from WD304. Basically it states that the AM can still manufacture Terminator armour, just in very small quantities due to the level of skill and effort required. This is a recurring question that has been debated at people ponder exactly how much tech the Imperium has access to.

It looks like Terminator armour is not completely irreplacable but it is very hard to make. Possibly the same is true of other exotic items like Dreadnoughts etc.

the_yuk
22-03-2005, 22:22
Given tyhe amount of terminator armour and dreds that are destroyed in battle, i think they would have to be able to be able to make it. Otherwise there would be marine chapter who wouldnt have any of these things left in the armoury.

Alpharius
22-03-2005, 22:25
Good to see this point finally cleared up!

Logically ( :eek: ), we all assumed this *had* to be the case...

Now, as for Dreads, something similar "must" also be true, given the limited survivability on the field of battle...

But then, the background seems to suggest that they come out to play a lot less frequently than the actually do "game-wise"...

TheSonOfAbbadon
22-03-2005, 23:26
Also they'd probably bring in another 100 marines to get the dread back, those things don't grow on trees ya know.

It would be fun if they did though.

Reabe
22-03-2005, 23:50
Yeah, the Space Marines would most likely send in another force to get the Dreadnought back. I'm not sure if they would do this for a suit or two of Termintor Armour, though.

the_yuk
29-03-2005, 23:02
But what happens whe the dred or termie armour gets completly vapourised by some uber weapon, they would need to be replaced. I mean its a bit hard to keep dreds and termies for thousands of years in tact if they are used in battle. Some of the older chapters would probablty be out of dreds if they couldnt made new.

inquisitorautry
30-03-2005, 00:57
Now, as for Dreads, something similar "must" also be true, given the limited survivability on the field of battle...

IA 2 actuall mentions that it is possible to make new dreads, it just takes a while to do it.


Also they'd probably bring in another 100 marines to get the dread back,...
Thank you, I believe my IH just got an objective.

Str10_hurts
30-03-2005, 05:30
It takes that long because they need to get in a little piece of the emperors armor in it....

like a recite ticket, bring in a piece of the emperors armor and get a new terminator armor.

Sojourner
30-03-2005, 08:09
They've drifted away from that somewhat. Now it's supposed to be blessed by the Golden Throne - Emperor's Tears or something. Considering the numbers constructed, I don't think it would last.

Besides, would you want to be the one who suggests cannibalising your God's armour for scrap?

the_yuk
30-03-2005, 11:01
HAHA, I would think that the whoever suggested it would be in big trouble. I would think that it would onely require blessings from the chaplains and libraians from the company, and geting the blessing from the techmarines, all servants, and representitive of the emperors.

Sai-Lauren
30-03-2005, 12:26
Well, the emperors armour thing was originally just for terminator captains (WD 114). It was the emperors own decree (this is the lone terminator distracted Horus on his battle barge story, not the Olanius Pius got in the way story).
Something I posted about terminator armour previously was that parts get replaced on suits all the time, but the suit itself is considered to be the same one that was created all those millenia ago - marines do believe in weapon and armour spirits after all, so they probably believe that the suits spirit lives on in the tiniest surviving part, and expands to fill the replacement parts, undiminished and ready to go avenge itself on those that wounded it.
Closest example we would have would be things like restored vintage aircraft, railway locomotives and similar. A lot of the parts are new, but it's still thought of as the same thing that came off the production line.

But, basically the knowledge is there to produce the parts by hand and assemble them correctly, but there isn't the knowledge (and possibly also the will and/or resources) to mass produce them.

sigur
30-03-2005, 12:58
Yeah, yeah, Land Raiders can still be made, Vanquishers can still be made, TA can still be made, CSM can still be made...

These fluff things that were quite cool back in the old days had to be changed...even I have to admit it. :mad:

Especially since GW boosted the SM causualities in any battle to enormous numbers.

Mother_Mercy
30-03-2005, 14:46
I think the thing to remember here is that even if a terminator gets killed in action, it doesn't mean that his suit is destroyed. The Imperium builds to last, and I think that if anything can be done to repair a broken suit, it will be done. Hell, they ran an article about famous tanks on the GW site, citing their service record. This one Leman Russ had a titan fall over it and the entire crew killed. A few centuries later the damn tank is *still* operating! Now that's tough!

My point is that a chapter can probably painstakingly maintain its number of terminator suits and dreadnoughts throughout the millenia (unless something catastrophic happens, causing the termie/dread to vaporize completely), and thus they are not so rare as one would think even though they can hardly be produced anymore.

Edit: It's great to be back, by the way.

TheSonOfAbbadon
30-03-2005, 16:20
You know most of the Land raiders may have fought in the first few scrapes with aliens, theyre millenia old! For at least 10,000 years chaos has maintained it's Land raiders and Rhinoes as has the Imperium with it's and their IG tanks.

Some terminator armour is about as old.

Hell's Angel
30-03-2005, 16:43
To carry on the last point a model that is removed from play as a casualty is not even necessarily dead. It is a casualty which until pronounced is merely wounded. I imagine as the lines of battle change some of these models limp off the field, and back to their transports/drop pods. Not to mention that even a basic space marine suit has life support (not that he would need it with all the organic back-ups his body has in addition.) As for the CSM's making new marines, well Fabius Bile harvests gene seeds for implementation in the same way that other apothecaries do.
I also agree that most the armors are repaired from salvaged suits as well, and always got the feeling from the books that the repairs were not as good as the original work. Landraiders are RELICS from the distant past, and represent the Imperial golden age of technology. No they cant 'pump out' Landraiders although you might feel that way judging by some peoples army composition. :rolleyes:
For the last topic, dreadnaughts and their un-survivability, I have to disagree completely. If you throw something with a low armor out in front of heavy weapons you cant blame it for getting destroyed. The fault lies in you as the strategic commander. Dreadnaughts work wonders when armed with a plasma cannon, and missile launcher. Of course if this configuration is not hulled down at all times your missing the point. (The point being that people will go out of their way to stun or destroy the dreadnaught because of the cannon.) For those of us who worship the chaos gods a possessed dreadnaught with a mutated hull is truly a thing of beauty (and survivability.)
The game and 'fluff' is constantly evolving, I dont think that pessimism is the best way to greet changing times.

But thats just my two cents :D

Alpharius
30-03-2005, 21:38
The latest US WD also puts the "piece of the Emperor's Armor in every Crux" back into the current "background" (meow!), but it does so as a rumor that its in there...

And even then, it mentions that the rumor is hard to believe and/or the piece must be very small, given the numbers involved...

Xhalax
02-04-2005, 00:16
It also makes sense that Termie armour can still be made, coz in fluff, it now seems that everyone and his dog is too big for normal power armour and has to have special armour made for them out of scarped and salvaged bits of Termie armour.

Also, I found the piece about how the Crux is supposed to contain a piece of the Emperor's armour quite intriguing (something i didn't know was in older fluff coz i'm a n00b). Though it would have to be a teeny tiny piece for there to be some in every suit. But also, it would mean that the Ad Mech still had the Emperor's armour (however much is left of it) still stashed somewhere....especially if they still have the means to make more.

Though in fluff, usually when it talks about Termie armour...it goes on about how ancient suits are, and how the art of making them has been lost. So I guess that, despite the fact that they Termies usually take quite a battering, that usually theirs enough of the suit left to repair and rebuild....but not make from scratch.
But what gets me is.....using slavaged Termie parts to either fix another suit, or custom make on for a HUGE marine, wouldn't that make the machine/war spirit of the suit, well a bit pissed off?

TheSonOfAbbadon
02-04-2005, 03:19
If you took half of one suit and welded it to half of another one, the SM would say something like 'The armour spirits have combined so this suit is ultra special.' but there isn't actually a spirit.

sulla
02-04-2005, 03:39
If you took half of one suit and welded it to half of another one, the SM would say something like 'The armour spirits have combined so this suit is ultra special.' but there isn't actually a spirit.

Huh? You accept the concepts of Daemons and Psychic powers but you categorically state that 40K imperial machines don't have a spirit? For all you know, they really do...

TheSonOfAbbadon
02-04-2005, 04:12
If armour had a spirit wouldn't it be able to move?

GuardianoftheFlame
02-04-2005, 04:40
not all spirits are able to posses and interact with the world around them, some may only be a faint voice in someone's head, or a full ghost who haunts mansions.

Rich
03-04-2005, 15:40
In the current SM 'dex it mentions (under the traits section) that new chapters take while to accumulate specialised and rare equipment such as terminator armour and dreadnoughts because it is only constructed in small quantities - suggesting that it is still constructed. Personally, I think its like diamonds; plenty about, but the supply is restricted to keep the demand (and price) up. The AdMech want to maintain their monopoly, so making the chapters pay large amounts for a couple of suits is a very good thing. It ensures that there is always a market for the equipment. I don't honestly believe that STC material cannot be readily constructed - we already know that landraiders were used by every arm of the Imperial military before the heresy, and the same with rhinos. The only reason that they are not used so still is not because of the construction difficulties (although that does play a role) but because the Emperor decreed that their use should be restricted, and nobody has since dared to rescind the order. Over the years they have gained sacred value, and now the marines avoid constructing them unless they have to because they are so obsessed with maintaining the status quo imposed on them by their god.

salty
03-04-2005, 16:22
In the UK WD 304, it mentioned that perhaps the Emperor's army was melted down, adn the tiniest portion of his armour incorporated into each Crux; otherwise, there is no way in hell each Termie could have apiece of the Emperor's armour on his shoulder!

Plus, if this is the case, then there is all the more reason to ruch in and resuce the armour after a battle! Golden "Emperor Armour" Slivers don't come cheap ya know!

Salty :)

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-04-2005, 18:00
Personally I think they put a forcefield generator in the Terminator armour and don't tell anyone.

Well, it would be strange that the Emperor's blessed armour still protects Chaos marines!

Minister
03-04-2005, 18:02
In the UK WD 304, it mentioned that perhaps the Emperor's army was melted down...
Rather harsh on the poor boys, wasn't it? :D

UberPope
04-04-2005, 08:26
Well, it would be strange that the Emperor's blessed armour still protects Chaos marines!


Personally, I would think that the chunk of armour itself wouldn't have the protective power, but the psychic energy and will of the Emperor to protect his servants, drawn through the piece, or honed by the piece.

In essence, I wouldn't think that Chaos would get this added. Besides, you would think that, being Emperor Haters, they would want to either get rid of or some how deface the power of something like a piece of the Emp's Armor, so that they could get it fully from their own gods...

-Uber

Sai-Lauren
04-04-2005, 08:28
Personally I think they put a forcefield generator in the Terminator armour and don't tell anyone.

Well, it would be strange that the Emperor's blessed armour still protects Chaos marines!
No, because they got their suits before/during the heresy, and the emperor's order was carried out at the end/afterwards.
Besides, chaos have their own ways of getting highly resistant armour.

As for forcefields, RT era terminator marines could take refractor fields, so they could have a 2+/6+ invulnerable save with a 5+ invulnerable save on top of that - they just cost somewhere around 700 points a squad. :eek:

Rich
04-04-2005, 08:54
Terminator armour now has 'Crux Terminatus' now doesn't it? - which I assume to be the equivalent of a refractor field (5+ invulnerable save). It would make sence if terminator armour incorporated a small personal force field.

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-04-2005, 10:25
Crux Terminatus is supposed to be the 5+ inv. that the Empy's armour gives them.

I'm now going by the hypotheses that the chaos terminator armour is protected by the chaos gods, not the Emp.

DantesInferno
04-04-2005, 12:36
If armour had a spirit wouldn't it be able to move?

That's the point.....it CAN move. ;)

Delicious Soy
04-04-2005, 13:43
Just because the rule is called Crux Terminatus doesn't mean that it's the Emperor/Chaos guidance. It because terminators are walking battle tanks, it simply represents theincredible resilence of the armour.

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-04-2005, 14:42
No, that would be armour save, and that's already 2+, so Imperials get the Emp's blessing, Heretics get Chaos's.

Thats why Ork mega armour doesn't have an invulnerable save.

Delicious Soy
05-04-2005, 00:46
Okay, pay attention younglings!

Here is the original description of Crux Terminatus rules. Read carefully:

Terminator Armour is legendarily thick and heavily reinforced with armaplas and adamantium. Terminators are capable of surviving just about any hit, even one from plasma or power weapons.

There. First Chapter Approved book. No mention of mysterious refractor or displace fields, just bloody thick armour.