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EvanM
11-09-2014, 17:10
So what does empire need to do to beat vampire counts?

Im guessing: bring magic weapons to kill ethereal guys, bring lore of light because yes, bring something with flaming attacks... but what else?

Rakariel
11-09-2014, 17:19
Snipe the Vampire with your cannons....roll credits :p

EvanM
11-09-2014, 17:36
dont they get look out sir?

i was thinking also of taking a witch hunter, or a general with a runefang and potion of speed (+3I) but i literally dont know how to kill an ASF vampire lord.

Lvl 4 light could work. dont you get extra hits versus undead? thats cool.

Rakariel
11-09-2014, 17:37
Light council build, try that ;)

EvanM
11-09-2014, 17:44
what other lores are good for beating VC? I could take a lvl4 and a lvl 2

Folomo
11-09-2014, 18:57
Light council = lvl 4 light + 2 lvl1/2 light wizards.
If you want another lore, shadows and death are pretty good with their templates of initiative or die. Death also has some snipes that can kill a vampire lord with some luck.

EvanM
11-09-2014, 18:59
what about witch hunters? they get lots of special rules to try and kill a vamp with

Rudra34
11-09-2014, 22:42
You have to get extremely lucky to kill a vamp with a witch hunter. Go with an arch lector on the pope wagon, level 4 light, and two level 1 light. That's 2 high-strength banishments that will wreck his day. Clean up with halberds and or knights, and then head to the winchester for a pint.

EvanM
11-09-2014, 22:54
what does a terrorgheist do?

Rudra34
11-09-2014, 23:24
Flies around screaming at you. Scream does 2d6+terrorgheists current wounds minus your leadership worth of wounds, no armor saves. It can scream into combat, whether it is involved or not. Only a 6+ regen makes it good cannon fodder, even a couple wounds make the scream less effective.

EvanM
11-09-2014, 23:39
so dont let it scream at my demigryphs is the point here, right?

Moss
12-09-2014, 03:10
Right. Keep it away from demis and knights.

Don't go into it thinking you're going to kill his lord, because you probably won't. You have to get very lucky in combat against his unit. He needs to have enough models in his units for you to get combat res, yet so little models that the wounds carry over to the lord. It's stupidly tough. The best way to kill him (if you REALLY want to) is with Lore of Death.

EvanM
12-09-2014, 03:28
what lore is good agaisnt them? besides lore of light. I was thinking lvl4 lore of light and a lvl2 lore of metal (for the knights, or for buffing). so whats better, lvl4 light and lvl2 light or lvl4 light lvl2 something else? (i dont use death magic)

Rudra34
12-09-2014, 07:50
Metal is always good for empire, but is situational against VC. If he brings knights then you are all set, but pretty much nothing else in the list will give a crap against your magic missiles. Light and shadow are always good, and fire is actually a good lore against vamps if they bring a lot of regen. Ironically, the lore of death can be pretty awesome as well.

Wesser
12-09-2014, 08:04
Just play your advantage. Vampires have to come for you, so you can redeploy your army to max effect. Some of the most potent vc units are frenzied, which are perfect for detachments.

Flaggies also shine against undead

rolly_321
12-09-2014, 09:23
Generally speaking everything in a VC army is either a tarpit of a hammer. Avoid tar pits, unless you have something with crazy offensive power (which empire doesn't have) you are playing into their hands. On their own, their hammers are vulnerable, since they also take wounds through combat res. Target priority is the name of the game, obviously vampire lords are great if you can take them out but they're also generally the best protected model in the army. The other hammers tend to be more vulnerable.

Lunkinark is also one of these units that is usually just average but Vs VC is amazing.

EvanM
12-09-2014, 14:17
so are flaggies good because they can hit first? (init 3 is good enough) and be unbreakable?
ive heard of a horde of flagellants taking out 6 TK chariots in a single round of combat before they even attacked.

So the other thing is against VC if you can just engage the zombies/skellies then the hammers will worry about trying to hammer/anvil you because if you can kill enough zombies then you'll pop the hammer?

pinktaco
12-09-2014, 20:52
Wouldn't it be much more fun if you didn't have to tsiŠor your List?make a strong all comer list and know what to avoid/what to kill. Personally I'm not too fond of winning over someone if you've completely countered your opponent before the game even begin :)

EvanM
12-09-2014, 22:03
Wouldn't it be much more fun if you didn't have to tsiŠor your List?make a strong all comer list and know what to avoid/what to kill. Personally I'm not too fond of winning over someone if you've completely countered your opponent before the game even begin :)

normally yes.

i have not played in a while and i have never played against VC. my opponent is much more experienced than me. I just wanna give him a good game and avoid any stupid mistakes in game or in my list

Folomo
12-09-2014, 22:27
Well, if you go with a light council its not really tayloring :p.

EvanM
12-09-2014, 22:35
light council isnt tailoring, light council is just the best thing empire does. we get banishment as a bound spell on the war altar with power level 5. you can 6 dice it every turn with no miscast at all. thats like one of the best things in the list.

rolly_321
13-09-2014, 05:09
EvenM, against VC Flaggies are good since their lower Ws and I matters less but in general they're a unit that takes some skill to use and against Elves they're almost useless.

Anyway, super killy units can go strait for skellies and zombies and generate enough CR to worry the hammers but with empire you don't have enough hitting power so this is exactly the situation the VC player wants. You're units will be held in place all game and the hammers will be free to choose where to hit you. With Empire against VC you want to avoid combat against skellies, zombies or gouls with your main combat blocks, instead use chaff to disrupt them. Everything else should focus on eliminating their genuinely threatening units. To be more specific we'd need to know what your list is and what you are facing.

EvanM
13-09-2014, 05:35
i have no idea what i am facing but i have two hordes of infantry, sporadic hero characters with minimum equipment to make any character killing damage mitigated, a reiksguard knight unit with warrior priest and 3 demigryphs. cannon, helblaster, 2 detachments of archers and some handguns.

so far, i am thinking
1. dont let anyone scream at my knights or demis
2. shoot the hammers, dont try shooting zombies or skellies
3. try to kill the hammers and vampires by popping them in combat res
4. take lore of light for banishment and shems gaze on my lvl 4

thoughts?

btw i have a few magic weapons (the low point ones) to kill ethereal guys and a unit with flaming banner if they have tons of regen

Bigman
14-09-2014, 12:13
Sounds good to me.

Also movement is key in this match up...unless within 12" he can't march, unless vampiric units (vargheists, vargulf, obv vamps mounted on monsters, coven thrones) so be aware of for deployment.

A good deployment for you can win you the game, so maybe run the archers as a ten, then they can be a separate unit drop.

Cannon the Terroghiest (1st priorty)
Hellblaster opposite any black knights/ high toughness monstrous units.

Don't forget, the war altar's prayers can fir flaming to units in 6"....including cannons and hellblasters...

emirparkreiner7
16-09-2014, 20:36
My Vampire Lord was sniped out of his unit by a Witch Hunter on a Flying Carpet Turn 2. And needless to say it was all downhill from there. You could try that for fun.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
19-09-2014, 18:33
1) get a steam tank if you don't already have one. They're amazing, and vamps don't have all that much to deal with them.

2) cannons into terrorgheists. They're nasty...but only at full wounds and they go down easy.

3) light or fire are good ways to deal with ethereal units. 2d6 fireball will toast spirit hosts or hex wraiths.

4) vampire lord is nasty, but his delivery unit is not. Beat it up and kill the lord on combat res. Always challenge with your champion as well, to try and kill his champ and lock up the VL in challenges.

4) he has to come to you. Use this to your advantage. Stuff outside 12" from his general can't march and are liable to be left behind.