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sturguard
04-10-2014, 13:44
Hey folks,
I have read through much of the rumor mill but I have to admit, I still don't get it.

Is the Nagash End of Times book a new rule book? Does it replace the old one? Do I need to get it to play games at my local hobby store?

If you can lead me out of the dark I would appreciate it.

Also- has anything been said about ogres going forward? It is my only fantasy army and I havent heard anything about them-

Thanks for your time.

Snake1311
04-10-2014, 14:12
Its an expansion.

It doesn't replace the current rulebook.

It doesn't affect your army, although some opponents's armies may contain a thing or two you are unfamiliar with.

Shandor
04-10-2014, 14:28
Hey folks,
I have read through much of the rumor mill but I have to admit, I still don't get it.

Is the Nagash End of Times book a new rule book? Does it replace the old one? Do I need to get it to play games at my local hobby store?

If you can lead me out of the dark I would appreciate it.

Also- has anything been said about ogres going forward? It is my only fantasy army and I havent heard anything about them-

Thanks for your time.

Its just an addon. You can play it but you dont have to. Its just somethign extra. Best would be to ask your Opponent if you can play with End times rules. But it does not change anythign to the "normal Game rules" You can still play as always.

Its just nice to take the New Undead Rules for Tomb king players. But i always skip the 50% Hero Rules..

Tah Kazak Rik
07-10-2014, 05:12
Here are quotes from the Book:

"This section updates the rules for how to pick an army for games of Warhammer. Just as the Lore of Undeath is available to any Wizard, all armies use these rules for choosing an army"

"This section allows you to pick a force of Undead miniatures....in your games of Warhammer."

"information that will allow you to use...miniatures based on the campaign in your games of Warhammer."

"These are new rules that you can use in any game of Warhammer..."

"Chapter 1: New Warhammer Rules"

Notice the language here. It is not saying Warhammer: Nagash or Warhammer Expansion: Nagash.

I think the language is clear that this serves as an update for Warhammer, not merely an optional expansion.

I may be blind but I can find nowhere in the book that states that it is an expansion in the same sense as the Storm of Magic or Blood on the Badlands.

I Am Forsaken
07-10-2014, 06:55
The only real new rules are that you can take up to 50% of your army as Lords and Heroes, up from the 25% stated in the BRB, and that all wizards can choose to use the Lore of Undeath.

Any other new rules in the book only affect an undead legions army, with the exception of the added heroes (Crom for WoC and Valten for Empire).

As to whether it replaces the old rules or is an addon - best to talk it over with your usual game group and come to a decision everyone is happy with. If you play in your local GW store, then you will probably just need to accept that some people will take the extra points in heroes and some wont.

Greyshadow
07-10-2014, 07:57
...I think the language is clear that this serves as an update for Warhammer, not merely an optional expansion.

I may be blind but I can find nowhere in the book that states that it is an expansion in the same sense as the Storm of Magic or Blood on the Badlands.

You may have missed the following in the 'How to Use This Book' section:

"(After describing all the contents of the book in preceding paragraphs) As you can see, this book represents more than just a selection of scenarios and special rules to go with them. Instead you should think of it as a toolbox, from which you can pick and choose what to use in any games of Warhammer that you play."

Please note that I do agree you could mount a cogent argument stating that the new Hero and Lord limits and the new magic lore update the game in the same way as the FAQs do. It is my view though that due to the above description in the instructions on how to use the book that these rules are optional.

However; I do believe that Undead Legion army list is as official and legal as any list in a GW Warhammer Armies book. (As all army lists are optional by their nature). (I personally will not be turning down games because my opponent brings more Lords and/or wizards with Lore of Undeath - bring it on I say!)

Banville
07-10-2014, 13:15
Yeah, I'm pretty much of the same opinion. If someone I was playing said, "I'm bringing an End Times list", I'd be perfectly happy to go up against it. Likewise, if I were to draw up a list with 50% Lords and explained I was using End Times rules, I think most people would be fine with that.

CrystalSphere
07-10-2014, 14:58
It is warhammer 8.5 edition, basically it means playing with the current timeline. If you play 8th edition as is, then you are playing in the past of the warhammer setting. If you play end times, then you are playing in the present of the warhammer setting. Ex. the undead are stronger now in the present, than they were in the past, due to Nagash resurrection.

N00B
07-10-2014, 15:17
Its just a set of extra rules like storm of magic. If both players agree when making a list then use it. I think it would be considered a bit underhand to just turn up with a list using the new rules and expecting people to be happy to play you (just like turning up with a Storm of Magic list).

I would urge you to get it and persuade people to accept at least part of the rules if you use a TK army though as it does bring them to an appropriate power level and makes for more diverse and interesting lists.

Shandor
08-10-2014, 01:40
Well as a Tomb King player i really love the new rules. I play with them. If the other player dont agrees i dont play with him. Its really simple.
I just think the 50% Hero rule is useless in a normal Game. If you dont play with Special Charakters.

But the Undead Legion rule is really cool for a normal game. Finaly Tomb Kings are playable again with some small Changes. You can heal Construkts more then once a Magic Phase and you can March. It should be like that in the first place in my opinion.

SuperHappyTime
08-10-2014, 02:19
I just think the 50% Hero rule is useless in a normal Game. If you dont play with Special Charakters.

Heroes are still cheaper than Lords, and some armies (like Dwarfs) have certain generic Heroes that don't have Lord counterparts that are still useful (like Master Engineer).

The troubling part is it's 50% for each and not 50% for both. 50% Lords, 25% Heroes, and 25% Core Units seems like it could be the foundation of a completely broken army.

tneva82
08-10-2014, 07:14
The troubling part is it's 50% for each and not 50% for both. 50% Lords, 25% Heroes, and 25% Core Units seems like it could be the foundation of a completely broken army.

Yep. Broken as in "good luck trying to win with it".

HelloKitty
08-10-2014, 13:57
i'm not too worried about an army composed of 25% core troops and 75% lords and heroes. We've done those games in narrative scenarios, the character side is always climbing uphill.

Tah Kazak Rik
08-10-2014, 18:14
Its just a set of extra rules like storm of magic. If both players agree when making a list then use it. I think it would be considered a bit underhand to just turn up with a list using the new rules and expecting people to be happy to play you (just like turning up with a Storm of Magic list).

I would urge you to get it and persuade people to accept at least part of the rules if you use a TK army though as it does bring them to an appropriate power level and makes for more diverse and interesting lists.

I disagree. It is not an extra set of rules. It is an update to the rules and it is not like Storm of magic. See argument above.


You may have missed the following in the 'How to Use This Book' section:

"(After describing all the contents of the book in preceding paragraphs) As you can see, this book represents more than just a selection of scenarios and special rules to go with them. Instead you should think of it as a toolbox, from which you can pick and choose what to use in any games of Warhammer that you play."

Please note that I do agree you could mount a cogent argument stating that the new Hero and Lord limits and the new magic lore update the game in the same way as the FAQs do. It is my view though that due to the above description in the instructions on how to use the book that these rules are optional.

However; I do believe that Undead Legion army list is as official and legal as any list in a GW Warhammer Armies book. (As all army lists are optional by their nature). (I personally will not be turning down games because my opponent brings more Lords and/or wizards with Lore of Undeath - bring it on I say!)

I didnt miss that part. But thanks for pointing it out as I could have very well have missed it (I am not a very regular poster here, so please know that my tone is not sarcastic, I genuinely thank you for providing that quote).

But in response I should point out that GW pretty much says something similar to that in everything, even the BRB, just as you point out that all army lists are optional.

And yes I do take note of that. I think one of the ways to truly know which side is correct is to see what the official tournaments do in their treatment of the End times rules.

N00B
08-10-2014, 19:20
I think the way to see which side is truly correct is to see how they FAQ the rules. When they change the rules/"clarify" them they (eventually) put the revised rules in the FAQ.

Ramius4
08-10-2014, 20:53
I think the way to see which side is truly correct is to see how they FAQ the rules. When they change the rules/"clarify" them they (eventually) put the revised rules in the FAQ.

I don't think GW has put out a new FAQ in almost 2 years.

CrystalSphere
08-10-2014, 22:15
When 9th edition comes out, and almost all of the changes from End Times (aka 8.5 edition) are in, then maybe people will stop second guessing GW intentions. I bet some will still claim that 9th edition is unofficial, and that the End Times was just a "autumm/winter campaign".

Spiney Norman
08-10-2014, 22:44
When 9th edition comes out, and almost all of the changes from End Times (aka 8.5 edition) are in, then maybe people will stop second guessing GW intentions. I bet some will still claim that 9th edition is unofficial, and that the End Times was just a "autumm/winter campaign".

That is basically what happened in 40k, all the folk who were complaining about the Superheavy rules that were presented in the escalation book and swearing they would dismember anyone who had the temerity to use a superheavy against them without getting signed permission in triplicate suddenly had to face the reality that they could legally be used in any army under the seventh edition rules with no more consultation than fielding an elite choice. Tis the way of things, some folk are just fixated on making sure everyone else can only have fun in the way they like to have fun.

yabbadabba
08-10-2014, 23:41
Simple. If you and your fellow players agree, use it. If not, don't.

Same as every other time.

There is no GW fun police.

Spiney Norman
08-10-2014, 23:44
Simple. If you and your fellow players agree, use it. If not, don't.

Same as every other time.

There is no GW fun police.

Just people who think they are. At the end of the day, the only reason to insist people ask your "permission" to field something is because there are things you want to stop them from using. Basically saying that I need your permission to include something in my army tells me an awful lot about you as a player...

N00B
09-10-2014, 00:12
It is a simple question really - would i have fun playing against this army or with that setup? If not no one has a right to expect me to waste my time doing something I wouldn't enjoy. I do from time to time enjoy alternative scenarios and would play some but if I tun up expecting to play something I am sure i can find someone to play it with.

This is about me policing no one but myself. I am not telling anyone they cant play with a particular set of rules - just saying which game it is i will be playing. This may be with someone else and everyone is happy. People can play 5th edition between themselves if they want.

Spiney Norman
09-10-2014, 07:23
It is a simple question really - would i have fun playing against this army or with that setup? If not no one has a right to expect me to waste my time doing something I wouldn't enjoy. I do from time to time enjoy alternative scenarios and would play some but if I tun up expecting to play something I am sure i can find someone to play it with.

This is the kind of attitude I don't get, you expect to turn up at the club and find a pick-up game to your exact specifications, and if your opponent wants to play a narrative scenario or use supplementary rules that you weren't planning on somehow the whole experience morphs from an enjoyable evening of gaming to a complete waste of time. Isn't there some kind of middle ground that can be reached here? Some weeks I literally have to bend over backwards just to get a game which means I end up playing against all kinds of crazy experimental lists, wacky scenarios and supplementary rules.

The number of people on warseer who claim they can't possibly have fun using SoM or playing against a 50% lord limit or using an objective based scenario just boggles my brain. You would really rather wind up not playing than trying something unusual or different?


This is about me policing no one but myself. I am not telling anyone they cant play with a particular set of rules - just saying which game it is i will be playing. This may be with someone else and everyone is happy. People can play 5th edition between themselves if they want.

Right this is the mythical gaming club with an infinite number of table spaces and potential diverse opponents where finding your opponent is roughly analogous to speed dating, which doesn't exist anywhere I have ever lived. By making your opponent jump through hoops to get a game and only taking into account your own preferences rather than his/hers also you are harming your community IMHO. If not knowing in advance the exact kind of game you will be playing is a problem to you, you're better off discussing it in advance with your opponent when you arrange your game (I get for some people that's not possible because of how some clubs work, but I find being as flexible as possible helps a lot).

Snake1311
09-10-2014, 09:28
Just people who think they are. At the end of the day, the only reason to insist people ask your "permission" to field something is because there are things you want to stop them from using. Basically saying that I need your permission to include something in my army tells me an awful lot about you as a player...

In all fairness, plopping down a random unit thats not really part of the core game without warning is a bit of a d*ck move too.

N00B
09-10-2014, 09:48
This is the kind of attitude I don't get, you expect to turn up at the club and find a pick-up game to your exact specifications, and if your opponent wants to play a narrative scenario or use supplementary rules that you weren't planning on somehow the whole experience morphs from an enjoyable evening of gaming to a complete waste of time. Isn't there some kind of middle ground that can be reached here? Some weeks I literally have to bend over backwards just to get a game which means I end up playing against all kinds of crazy experimental lists, wacky scenarios and supplementary rules.

The number of people on warseer who claim they can't possibly have fun using SoM or playing against a 50% lord limit or using an objective based scenario just boggles my brain. You would really rather wind up not playing than trying something unusual or different?



Right this is the mythical gaming club with an infinite number of table spaces and potential diverse opponents where finding your opponent is roughly analogous to speed dating, which doesn't exist anywhere I have ever lived. By making your opponent jump through hoops to get a game and only taking into account your own preferences rather than his/hers also you are harming your community IMHO. If not knowing in advance the exact kind of game you will be playing is a problem to you, you're better off discussing it in advance with your opponent when you arrange your game (I get for some people that's not possible because of how some clubs work, but I find being as flexible as possible helps a lot).

I did say from time to time I am happy to play with other scenarios, test homebrew rules and other formats, and yes it will only usually be 10 to 15 min till someone else comes along for me to play if I decline a game. I also believe that it is no more ******* for me to ask people to play with my preferred set of rules than for other people to ask me to play with their preferred set.


100% agree with you though that discussing rules with your opponent in advance of turning up with an army is a good thing (but also agree it isnt always possible).

Berghofer
09-10-2014, 09:48
@Spiney Norman

It's not about that for everyone. It's just nice to know when you make the army, if you can take 50% lords and heroes, and if you can field a new spell lore, and knowing what your opponent can bring as well.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to know what rules your opponent plays with, so you can prepare and play with the same rules. As you can see, alot of people disagree on wether or not it is official, so it is a valid question, even if you personally think it is obvious.

And if someone don't have fun playing in a certain way, then who are you to judge them? You like playing no matter what? Good for you. If they don't, and are polite and friendly in their refusal, then who are you to say they should just play no matter what, when they woul'dnt have fun?

You may think it is strange that other people don't feel like you do about what is fun and what isn't, but you need to learn to respect that people are different, and your opionion is just that.. Yours. Not theirs. As long as they are polite and friendly, you need to learn that it is ok that they think differently about things than you do.

CrystalSphere
09-10-2014, 10:15
I understand perfectly that in order to have a Warhammer game, both players need to speak about what kind of game they want to play. That is one ideal scenario, when you play with your buddy and you say: "next game i wonīt bring demigryphs but instead i want to take ogres as allies". Or when you make house rules like steadfast is negated when you are flanked and lose ranks. That is great and is the spirit of the game, however not everyone has the luxury of having several regular opponents (or even one).

So the next scenario is when you have to rely on pickup games, so you go to the local gaming store and try to get some games. What is the most likely rules to be played? The latest one published, so you expect people to use 8th edition rules, and not 7th edition ones, makes sense. So if the newest publication has advanced the background, and introduced new rules for all armies (because Nagasih is only Chapter 1, so it makes sense that the rules affect mostly the undead, wait for Chapter 2 and 3 of End Times to see the changes to other armies), then the logical thing to assume is that pickup players will be using those rules.

Now if you donīt like the End Times you are under no obligation to play it, but know they are in fact the latest rules published by GW (so as official as anything can be), and if you go to a pickup game, then expect to find people playing by the latest rules, no matter how imbalaced they appear to you or me.

syrme
09-10-2014, 11:03
I used Nagash + undead legions at a tournament 2 weeks ago - After all the hype (he's broken, not fair blah blah) he went 2-1-2. A huge points sink (it was a 2k event) nothing much left in your army and wholly reliant on the winds of magic. I wont use him again in a tournament (or the mortarchs for that matter) only in pre arranged bigger games.

On the otherhand I do think undead legions is a legit new addition to the army options. Certainly for TK players and for VC players who want to play a combat orientated army and not worry if the general dies.

Im planning a game for the weekend 2.4k blender lord + lv 4 necro, ghouls, blood knights and grave guard from VC and skeleton archers, carrion, SCC and altar from TK

HelloKitty
09-10-2014, 17:57
I've always said that its important to play with like minded people. Then there is never really an issue. 25 years of gaming have taught me that. There are some places where opponents are few and far between and I sympathize with that plight if that happens to be what one is experiencing though.

phlewis
09-10-2014, 19:15
It appears that Nagash End Times is a limited release. It is already going out of stock with no intent by GW to reprint. I think that argues against it being an expansion of the basic rules. Probably best to treat it as a new army book.

SteveW
09-10-2014, 22:30
I disagree. It is not an extra set of rules. It is an update to the rules and it is not like Storm of magic. See argument above.



.

Your argument fails when you read the part where it says you can use the book like a toolbox and take whatever rules you want from it. In other words nothing in it is mandatory.

SexualPanda
09-10-2014, 23:04
If you drop down an undead legion list, then by that standing you are giving the okay for 50% lords and heroes. It seems absurd to just say it's an official army book but we're not gonna apply the 50% rule.
I personally think having half of an army In heroes takes away from the game and makes it less tactical and more skirmish based. So I choose to not regard undead legions as legal, because if I did i should by all rights also be okay with my opponent fielding a 10 dark Pegasus dark elf list as we'll. I really hope this isn't the direction it's going as I've always liked the idea of troops and seeing my opponent have a list compromised of a bunch of characters really takes the feel of the game away from me

yabbadabba
09-10-2014, 23:09
It appears that Nagash End Times is a limited release. It is already going out of stock with no intent by GW to reprint.oh, buttocks.

N00B
09-10-2014, 23:33
If you drop down an undead legion list, then by that standing you are giving the okay for 50% lords and heroes. It seems absurd to just say it's an official army book but we're not gonna apply the 50% rule.
I personally think having half of an army In heroes takes away from the game and makes it less tactical and more skirmish based. So I choose to not regard undead legions as legal, because if I did i should by all rights also be okay with my opponent fielding a 10 dark Pegasus dark elf list as we'll. I really hope this isn't the direction it's going as I've always liked the idea of troops and seeing my opponent have a list compromised of a bunch of characters really takes the feel of the game away from me


I would at least accept tomb king marching bubble and no crumble- they deserve that much

Doommasters
09-10-2014, 23:38
Provided they keep the electronic one available it is not the end of the world, not ideal though.

Tah Kazak Rik
09-10-2014, 23:54
Your argument fails when you read the part where it says you can use the book like a toolbox and take whatever rules you want from it. In other words nothing in it is mandatory.

Right. And your argument fails when you read the part in the BRB where they say the same type of thing...

Brother Haephestus
10-10-2014, 05:36
If you drop down an undead legion list, then by that standing you are giving the okay for 50% lords and heroes. It seems absurd to just say it's an official army book but we're not gonna apply the 50% rule.
I personally think having half of an army In heroes takes away from the game and makes it less tactical and more skirmish based. So I choose to not regard undead legions as legal, because if I did i should by all rights also be okay with my opponent fielding a 10 dark Pegasus dark elf list as we'll. I really hope this isn't the direction it's going as I've always liked the idea of troops and seeing my opponent have a list compromised of a bunch of characters really takes the feel of the game away from me

The thing to think about when it comes to the 50% rule: if it wasn't there, you'd have to play a 4000 pt game to field Nagash.

I understand your 'skirmish' comments, but I also argue that this does give you a chance to break some boundaries when it comes to heroes selection. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to field a 300 pt lord in a 1000 pt game? Yes, it absolutely does reek of Herohammer, but sometimes those games can be fun.

tneva82
10-10-2014, 06:41
When 9th edition comes out, and almost all of the changes from End Times (aka 8.5 edition) are in, then maybe people will stop second guessing GW intentions. I bet some will still claim that 9th edition is unofficial, and that the End Times was just a "autumm/winter campaign".

Yes. That's the 9th edition. Last time I checked future edition rules aren't used in previous edition games. Something to do with that future ruleset being yet unavailable no doubt.

tneva82
10-10-2014, 06:43
So the next scenario is when you have to rely on pickup games, so you go to the local gaming store and try to get some games. What is the most likely rules to be played? The latest one published, so you expect people to use 8th edition rules, and not 7th edition ones, makes sense. So if the newest publication has advanced the background, and introduced new rules for all armies (because Nagasih is only Chapter 1, so it makes sense that the rules affect mostly the undead, wait for Chapter 2 and 3 of End Times to see the changes to other armies), then the logical thing to assume is that pickup players will be using those rules.

So you okay with guy popping up to pick up game with storm of magic free monster points as well?

N00B
10-10-2014, 10:16
The thing to think about when it comes to the 50% rule: if it wasn't there, you'd have to play a 4000 pt game to field Nagash.

I understand your 'skirmish' comments, but I also argue that this does give you a chance to break some boundaries when it comes to heroes selection. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to field a 300 pt lord in a 1000 pt game? Yes, it absolutely does reek of Herohammer, but sometimes those games can be fun.


Agreed, with the emphasis on "sometimes". Not by default, not every game. If you want something less restrictive than the rule book like SoM or End times then people should feel free - but it should not be considered normal.

Greyshadow
10-10-2014, 11:37
It appears that Nagash End Times is a limited release. It is already going out of stock with no intent by GW to reprint. I think that argues against it being an expansion of the basic rules. Probably best to treat it as a new army book.

Not showing as a limited release here in Australia, also went out of stock shortly after release due to selling out. Now is back in stock. Just checked Space Hulk and it doesn't explicitly say limited so maybe you are right?

N00B
10-10-2014, 13:29
The thing to think about when it comes to the 50% rule: if it wasn't there, you'd have to play a 4000 pt game to field Nagash.

I understand your 'skirmish' comments, but I also argue that this does give you a chance to break some boundaries when it comes to heroes selection. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to field a 300 pt lord in a 1000 pt game? Yes, it absolutely does reek of Herohammer, but sometimes those games can be fun.

well the 4k points kind of fixes it. You will then both have grand armies so at least there are enough counters out there.

It does seem a bit gamey to want to take a set of rules that lets you take big monsters whilst minimising the amount of cannons etc. your opponents are allowed to take.

Spiney Norman
10-10-2014, 15:35
well the 4k points kind of fixes it. You will then both have grand armies so at least there are enough counters out there.

It does seem a bit gamey to want to take a set of rules that lets you take big monsters whilst minimising the amount of cannons etc. your opponents are allowed to take.

Anything that minimises the effect of cannons on the game is not 'gamey' it is balancing.

Memnos
10-10-2014, 15:37
Just people who think they are. At the end of the day, the only reason to insist people ask your "permission" to field something is because there are things you want to stop them from using. Basically saying that I need your permission to include something in my army tells me an awful lot about you as a player...

Sort of. Let's say that you're in 40K playing an Unbound army of nothing but Stompas.

If I played a typical army, it might be a very silly game. Instead of 'Consent is needed for (x)', 40K has become 'Consent is needed for everything'.

Most people I know now play armies that are way more awesome than they were under the old edition. No more minimal troops with horrible combination of death - Now, I play a Genestealer Cult list consisting of Tempestus, a Genestealer formation and some Hybrid 'Counts as' Chaos Possessed. The people I face have very neat armies. The doomsayers were completely wrong where my group was concerned.

Of course, the consent rule has become "Just let me know if you're playing Bound or Unbound. If it's Unbound and you let me know what you have, I'll probably face it. If you're going to be a dink, I'll probably face the other guy."

Snake1311
10-10-2014, 15:42
Anything that minimises the effect of cannons on the game is not 'gamey' it is balancing.

Way to strawman dude.

Nagash, and characters like him in general, are very polarizing in low-point games; to the point that either the one counter you've managed to fit in there takes them out, or you may as well concede as soon as its neutralized.

Memnos
10-10-2014, 15:55
Way to strawman dude.

Nagash, and characters like him in general, are very polarizing in low-point games; to the point that either the one counter you've managed to fit in there takes them out, or you may as well concede as soon as its neutralized.

You raise a good point. A game against Nagash in 2000 points(The lowest you can take him in, even with the 50% Lords) starts with a huge advantage to the non-Nagash list. However, Nagash's ability to summon huge swathes of expensive troops means that by turn 4, you're facing a lack of points and by turns 5 and 6, he has huge amounts of points over you.

This is good, and how a battle against Nagash should be. But it's easy to see how that might not be everyone's cup of tea as it turns every battle against him in to a desperate, clock-is-ticking battle to take him out.

That said, I like him. I wouldn't want to face him in every battle, but not everyone I play uses Undead - Safe enough. That isn't everyone's experience, however, so I'd guess it's best to not be a dink and discuss the battle ahead of time.

HelloKitty
10-10-2014, 16:40
We like nagash, but the events we play in he is not allowed until 3000 points or so. The big epic battles where it just "feels right" to be facing something of that magnitude.

yabbadabba
10-10-2014, 16:41
Instead of 'Consent is needed for (x)', 40K has become 'Consent is needed for everything'.
...
Of course, the consent rule has become "Just let me know if you're playing Bound or Unbound. If it's Unbound and you let me know what you have, I'll probably face it. If you're going to be a dink, I'll probably face the other guy." Both of these rules have always been there. There has never, ever been a compulsion rule for playing a game. You have never been forced to play a game. If you think you don't have a choice, you are wrong; if you think that you have to play because you won't get a game, you value compliance over personal values.

The only time I have ever played a game I didn't want to was as a staff member for GW. I have never regretted saying to No to playing a game.

FatTrucker
10-10-2014, 17:07
There should be prior agreement between players if ET rules are going to be used.
Its an out of stock, no longer available limited release and many (most?) players don't own it.