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N00B
10-10-2014, 14:13
I am having some trouble with squigs... Both hoppers and herds in terms of rules.

1) Squig hoppers. I have a unit of 5 squig hoppers joined by 3 characters on great cave squigs... When the squig hoppers die, what happens to the remaining characters?

One reading is that they cannon join units other than squig hoppers not that they cannot be in units other than squig hoppers so they can remain together as a monstrous cav unit

Alternatively they cant be in a unit together and must separate (presumably moving an inch apart). How does that work in combat:
a) if the unit needs to take a break test - do they do it before or after splitting
b) if separation by an inch would take the models out of combat (less worried about this as charging lets units get within 1 inch anyway)



2) Squig herds. Models get removed from the rear of the unit (moved forward). Is there any indication that this will change if there are models also in combat at the rear of the unit, i.e. it changes the composition of the fighting rank?

Vulgarsty
19-10-2014, 21:45
I thought squig hoppers had some rule like "objectionable" and therefore can't be joined by characters on giant squigs - who are in themselves objectionable and cant join other units even another character on a squig

Geep
20-10-2014, 01:21
Vulgarsty- Characters on Giant Squigs are the only thing that can join Squig Hoppers, and Squig Hoppers are the only unit they can join.

By RAW, once the squig hoppers died it would no longer be a Squig Hopper unit, and the characters cannot then join with each other to form a unit. They would then need to be an inch apart, however that's always waived in combat- so there's no problem of re-arranging the combat. The disbanding of the unit has no specific time, so I would take this as happening immediately. That would then mean each Giant Squig character would take their own break test and flee their own rolled distance.

As for the Squig Herd question- I've always assumed the previous 'telegraphing' (may not be the right word) rules still exist, but maybe I'm wrong? Either way, in those rules the exact number of models in the rank doesn't matter, it's the total number of models in the unit's usual ranks. It's assumed the soldiers move more fluidly than little plastic men can, so if one or two models are preventing more soldiers getting into combat those rear ranks would 'step back' to engage and make a full rank (or you can view it as the opponent sweeping forward to hit the enemy in the rear, not stopping 20mm away because Bob needs to kill that one guy way over on the other side of the unit first). In effect, if a model is in a unit engaged in combat, but can't strike as no-one is in base-to-base, draw a line directly forward from the base corners- if it touches a model in the engaged unit he can attack and be attacked.

Spiney Norman
20-10-2014, 09:35
Vulgarsty- Characters on Giant Squigs are the only thing that can join Squig Hoppers, and Squig Hoppers are the only unit they can join.

By RAW, once the squig hoppers died it would no longer be a Squig Hopper unit, and the characters cannot then join with each other to form a unit. They would then need to be an inch apart, however that's always waived in combat- so there's no problem of re-arranging the combat. The disbanding of the unit has no specific time, so I would take this as happening immediately. That would then mean each Giant Squig character would take their own break test and flee their own rolled distance.

As for the Squig Herd question- I've always assumed the previous 'telegraphing' (may not be the right word) rules still exist, but maybe I'm wrong? Either way, in those rules the exact number of models in the rank doesn't matter, it's the total number of models in the unit's usual ranks. It's assumed the soldiers move more fluidly than little plastic men can, so if one or two models are preventing more soldiers getting into combat those rear ranks would 'step back' to engage and make a full rank (or you can view it as the opponent sweeping forward to hit the enemy in the rear, not stopping 20mm away because Bob needs to kill that one guy way over on the other side of the unit first). In effect, if a model is in a unit engaged in combat, but can't strike as no-one is in base-to-base, draw a line directly forward from the base corners- if it touches a model in the engaged unit he can attack and be attacked.

There is nothing in the rules that require you to immediately leave a unit if your presence there becomes illegal during the course of the game. In any case the loner rule only prevents you from joining units other than squig hopper units, not from remaining part of them. You wouldn't be able to join another GCS mounted character to the unit after the last hopper has died and you wouldn't be able to rejoin if you subsequently left, but there is no precedent in the rules for forcing characters to leave a unit at any point for any reason.

In fact there is no way of 'disbanding' a unit of characters during combat at all, so what you're suggesting is illegal anyway. The models would have to stay together until their next remaining moves sub-phase where they are unengaged and not fleeing where one or more of the characters could legally leave the unit as per the rules for characters joining and leaving unit, and as far as I can tell from the rule book, the characters leaving the combined unit would be entirely optional, not mandatory.

The best precedent that comes to mind is the provision to allow a transformed beast wizard to remain part of his unit even though that is expressedly illegal.

I'm also not entirely persuaded that a GCS character cannot join another GCS character anyway, but it guess it could be lawyered that way.

Regarding the squig herd question
"All casualties are taken by removing a model of the appropriate type [either squig or herder]. Bring models forward from the rear ranks to fill any gaps that result" - O&G p. 54

If squigs die you remove the squigs furthest to the back and shuffle the herders at the back forwards to take their place. You would then work out which models get to fight as normal based on their position in the unit at their initiative step. Since squigs and night goblins have the same initiative anyway that shouldn't cause any confusion.

N00B
22-10-2014, 15:37
Thanks for the responses. The squig herd one I was pretty sure of but just wandered if I had missed a rule.

On the GCS Spiny's reading is pretty much identical to mine, certainly as written (and, where possible we try and play as written unless it becomes such a problem that we house rule changes). I don't see anything with squig hoppers becoming so powerful that it will need a change though!

Spiney Norman
23-10-2014, 12:12
Thanks for the responses. The squig herd one I was pretty sure of but just wandered if I had missed a rule.

On the GCS Spiny's reading is pretty much identical to mine, certainly as written (and, where possible we try and play as written unless it becomes such a problem that we house rule changes). I don't see anything with squig hoppers becoming so powerful that it will need a change though!

I'm not so sure, with the FAQ to allow 50% lord or hero choices in all games you could literally make MC units of bigboss squig riders if they were permitted to join other GCS riding characters. Now that would be awesome.

N00B
23-10-2014, 15:02
I'm not so sure, with the FAQ to allow 50% lord or hero choices in all games you could literally make MC units of bigboss squig riders if they were permitted to join other GCS riding characters. Now that would be awesome.


That's not a bug, its a feature.