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daftpunkevo
15-10-2014, 02:16
Hi all,
First we never ever ever ever played any rulebook' scenario since 8th came out, where I play (club and local GW) I never saw anything else than Battle Line, I've more chances to summon a F cup slaannesh demonnette slave in real life than to play any other scenario for those future 15 years. ;)

I'm just struggling on how to equip my 2 character... I tried in some games and feel like both of my character needed the third eye of Tzeentch.. which is impossible. :(
On one side my BSB is never really focus, but maybe its because most of the time he got the Third eye and the opponent don't bother shooting at him anyway, so maybe it would be better on the demon prince, but the 2 times I tried the BSB got cannon-balled off the table turn 1 vs empire and vs ogre.. bad luck..

Total : 2988 pts

Lords :
Tzeentch DP : 570 pts
Lv4 (Metal - because it r#pe others WoC):)
Chaos armour, Fly, Soul Feeder, Sword of Striking, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Spell Familiar, Acid Ichor (had point to spend), Firebreath, Scaly Skin

Heroes :
Tzeentch BSB : 258 pts
Barbed Demonic mount, Talisman of Preservation, Shield, Third eye of Tzeentch, Warrior Bane (because of GW re-releasing spirit host.... made the mistake once and will never again.)

Core :
11 x Tzeentch Chaos Chariot : 1320 pts

Special :
6 x Tzeentch Gorebeast Chariot : 840 pts

What should I do with the third eye and the spare points ?

Josfer
15-10-2014, 13:16
Drop acid ichor, give him other tricksters shard, the remaining 7 points print on a paper and throw at your opponent at appropriate times. TEoT on the BSB is the correct decision in my opinion.

knightangel900
21-10-2014, 16:28
Lords :
Tzeentch DP : 570 pts
Lv4 (Metal - because it r#pe others WoC):)
Chaos armour, Fly, Soul Feeder, Sword of Striking, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Spell Familiar, Acid Ichor (had point to spend), Firebreath, Scaly Skin


I'm sorry to say that you have fallen into the same trap with your daemon prince that I have. I emailed GW customer support about daemon princes and shields this afternoon and within the hour, I was told that daemon princes couldn't take shields (currently in the middle of confirming with another source).

After dropping the shield, You only have 5pts left to spend on magic items (DP can only have 25pts :mad:) and the items for 5pts are not suited for a DP.

With the last 17pts, maybe give your BSB the charmed shield and the burning body power?

The best way is to play a game with the list and see what needs to be changed.

Hope this helps.

sigmarus
21-10-2014, 18:12
I have seen plenty of players use a shield on their daemon princes. Daemon princes can purchase armor and therefore should be able to purchase any magical armors.

That being said, I also cannot find in the rulebook where it says that casters cannot wear armor and cast spells. Can someone point out this rule to me? I want to see if it is affected by shields or not.

knightangel900
21-10-2014, 18:26
I have seen plenty of players use a shield on their daemon princes. Daemon princes can purchase armor and therefore should be able to purchase any magical armors.

That being said, I also cannot find in the rulebook where it says that casters cannot wear armor and cast spells. Can someone point out this rule to me? I want to see if it is affected by shields or not.

Page 172 of mini book (magic items section). Look for magical interference. And this is the reason why I emailed GW customer service.

I wonder if Adam Troke or Jes Bickham would be able to answer this question?

sigmarus
21-10-2014, 18:34
Thank you for that reference page. As I read it, if a model (caster) can take "normal" armor (which in this case is chaos armor) in its unit selection, then it can both cast with armor and take magical armors. It referenced a chaos sorcerer which just like a daemon prince, can take chaos armor. Although a shield is not listed, I dont see why they would not be able to take a magical shield.

That being said, I suppose it could possibly be argued the other way, but I have never heard of a player saying that a daemon prince cannot use a charmed shield.

kikibobo
21-10-2014, 19:15
I see no reason a WoC DP cant take a shield. A DoC one on the other hand...

That army looks like it would be a blast to play. I will have to try a list like this sometime. I agree with Josfer's changes though (especially the part about throwing the extra 7 points at your opponent)

Cynigher
21-10-2014, 23:10
You shouldn't need a Third Eye on a Daemon Prince as the daemon of tzeentch rule says that you re-roll ward save results of a 1 as well as channels, so it would be a complete waste of 10 points. A DP can definitely take magical armour because he has options to buy mundane, or can a vampire no longer have magical armour?

knightangel900
22-10-2014, 11:48
Spoke to my local GW manager and he basically said the same thing. Warriors of chaos daemon princes can't take shields.

To make sure, I have emailed the people who write the FAQs and errata's (gamefaqs@gwplc.com) with the following questions:

"This question is about daemon princes in the Warriors of chaos book. Can they be given a shield from the magic armour section of the main rule book even though they don't have the option for a shield.

I have emailed this question to Games Workshop Customer Services and spoken to my local games workshop manager and the answer I got was that they couldn't, can you please confirm that this information is correct?

This question is about magical items. When purchasing magical items, does the character need to have the option to purchase the mundane item before being able to upgrade it to a magical item (I.E. an Empire Captain can upgrade his shield to a magical one whilst a Chaos Sorcerer can't purchase a magical shield as he doesn't have the option for a mundane shield)?"

I'm hoping that they email back, however:

"You’ve reached the rules mailbox for Games Workshop - thanks for your email!

We're not able to respond to each email individually, but we read every one and feed all comments back into making Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 even better."

I'm going to play it safe and not give my daemon prince a shield until I hear other wise.

Vulgarsty
22-10-2014, 20:48
What about the ogre mea culpa faq which allows slaughtermasters to take magic armour because they have an ironfist option. Magic armour option is exactly that in reverse. helmets, shield etc, it is all agregated. I dont think demon princes can have an option for a mundane extra cc weapon, does that mean they wouldnt be able to take fencers blades? Or are they also not allowed to take certain magic weapons aswell based on their access to mundane versions? If you can take magic items, and you can take mundane armour i dont see why you have to complicate it by introducing artificial sub division the designers didnt. If they introduce a magic armour section..a magic shield section etc in future your theory may hold logic. I would add that i have put this in lists checked by the rules wallahs at gw tournaments in nottingham and this was never an issue.

Note the ogre precedent also applies to dps who are casters as they can access mundane(chaos) armour.

knightangel900
23-10-2014, 09:06
What about the ogre mea culpa faq which allows slaughtermasters to take magic armour because they have an ironfist option. Magic armour option is exactly that in reverse. helmets, shield etc, it is all agregated. I dont think demon princes can have an option for a mundane extra cc weapon, does that mean they wouldnt be able to take fencers blades? Or are they also not allowed to take certain magic weapons aswell based on their access to mundane versions? If you can take magic items, and you can take mundane armour i dont see why you have to complicate it by introducing artificial sub division the designers didnt. If they introduce a magic armour section..a magic shield section etc in future your theory may hold logic. I would add that i have put this in lists checked by the rules wallahs at gw tournaments in nottingham and this was never an issue.

Note the ogre precedent also applies to dps who are casters as they can access mundane(chaos) armour.

Please re-read my first post, a daemon prince can only have 25 point of magical items, fencer's blades are 35 points.

I don't think I've "created artificial sub division the designers didn't". A magic shield is a piece of magic armour, however, I believe that you need to have the option to have a mundane shield before being able to upgrade to a magical one.

For the GW tournaments, did you use a daemon prince or the slaughter master?

If it's the ogre slaughter master, Jarvis didn't plan on allowing them to have magical armour due to the ironfist. He allowed it but said that he preferred that people didn't take magic armour with them.

If it's the daemon prince, that is interesting. I plan on going to a tournament next year and I don't want to be kicked out due to a incorrect option, that is the reason why I'm trying to find out who is right.

Bladelord
23-10-2014, 12:15
If it's the daemon prince, that is interesting. I plan on going to a tournament next year and I don't want to be kicked out due to a incorrect option, that is the reason why I'm trying to find out who is right.


Just ask the TO before you send in your army list.

ewar
23-10-2014, 12:17
Maybe ask in the rules forum?

Also, you are definitely being misinformed by your local GW people (not the first time this has happened). DPs can take the charmed shield, they don't need a choice of mundane shield in their options. It's a piece of magic armour - that is all you need to know. It could just as well have been called the Charmed Gauntlet, Charmed Knee Guard etc it doesn't matter, the effect is the same.

(which incidentally is why nobody in WFB worries about WYSIWYG, you don't need to model an actual shield on your daemon prince).

OT: that army looks like a very expensive one trick pony. Do you really want to buy and paint 17 chariots? Seems like madness to me. You'd probably crush my undead army 10 times over and then I'd probably choose to play against someone else, so not sure what you're trying to get out of it?

Yes, you can create armies like this to mercilessly crush people, but I'm not sure it's a long term recipe for gaming fun, but maybe that's just me.

Vulgarsty
23-10-2014, 21:53
Please re-read my first post, a daemon prince can only have 25 point of magical items, fencer's blades are 35 points

For the GW tournaments, did you use a daemon prince or the slaughter master?

If it's the ogre slaughter master, Jarvis didn't plan on allowing them to have magical armour due to the ironfist. He allowed it but said that he preferred that people didn't take magic armour with them.

A) the points are not relevent, the example is. And if you suppose are they relevent because you think they have been deliberately priced out to purposefully exclude them without stating as such, then they clearly havent priced out the 5 point shields (plus that would be an absurdly complex way of engineering the effect of excluding these items compared to simply setting out that "dps cannot have any sort of shields or aditional hand weapons")

B) i used a dp with enchanted shield in 11 games over two tournaments at warhammer world and none of the list checkers, or opponents, including another guy with a slaaneshi wizard woc dp with a charmed shield batted an eyelid. Its not even that gamey i got 3 good opponent votes.

C) well he can prefer all he likes, he should write the rules properly, anyway, its not like it turns them super op, i regularly get thrashed with my ogres. Classic principle of english law, is that which is not explicitly prohibited, is allowed.

Overall, i dont know why you are so hung up on it. I have never seen this interpretation, ever. Choose simplicity over complexity. Always. Seriously, have a look at this https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/poster. I'll let you off the "appeal to authority charge" with respect to the GW flunky... ;-)