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kikibobo
22-10-2014, 02:54
So its not like daemons are a bad army, far from it despite the chaotic elements Matt Ward gave them. I greatly have enjoyed the expanded flexibility this new book has provided. I further realize that the end times may shake this all up with whatever new chaos book is imminently approaching, but I felt the need to house rule my daemons to make them less random. One of my buddies has agreed that these changes dont seem ridiculous, but I figured I would ask to see if there was anything glaringly wrong:

1. On instability rolls, remove the 2 and 12 roll

2. Limit the reign of comedy chart to 5-9 which is the rather tame side of it

3. Allow me to choose my own daemonic gifts. I still obviously have to overpay for main rulebook gifts, but this gives me tons more flexibility. The only thing is that on the Exalted Gifts chart I would either need to completely remove the 6 possibility or just roll to see if I get a 6 and then choose like normal.

I know there are OP possibilities with this but this would just be for our casual/semi-competitive gaming. Does anyone think this breaks anything, even in a more casual setting?

gero_nz
22-10-2014, 20:31
Not sure why your playing Daemons TBH. If you don't like the fundamentals of the list (and thats what the above is), then play something else. There are less random armies available.

kikibobo
22-10-2014, 20:43
I would hardly say that that is the fundamentals of a daemons army, but I see your point. I have considered branching out off and on since the 8th edition book came out, but I am going to wait now and see what ET does to the game. Ward has made daemons into feeling that way, but I picked up daemons for part fluff and part feel of their armies back in 7th. Fluff has been boosted IMO this edition but the randomness just makes a win sometimes feel less great or makes a loss feel cheated.

I dont think Daemons felt anywhere near this random in 7th which was when I invested the majority of my money into the game, so its hard to just pick up and leave them behind with so much money and effort put into buying and painting them.

All that said, I could definitely live with the randomness of a 2 and 12 instability roll from time to time, and reign of comedy really isnt that bad (my opponent who is pushing for its removal would say otherwise). If I left those in, I really am not changing much. The daemonic gifts is what irks me the most though and that is not something a chaos army needs in order to keep it feeling like chaos.

Mannfred
23-10-2014, 01:22
Daemonic Gifts at all are honestly fine; but i will agree with you that at a point your are overpaying for certain abilities and properties....

Exalted Gifts i honestly never touch unless theres a piece of wargear that i am aiming for, overall their all pretty bad...thats just my personal opinion and my gaming club have moved in that direction. The only valid ones are the Lesser Gifts. A Greater Daemon of any god with 4 Lesser Gifts is amaze balls....Personally i run a Lord of Change with the 4 gifts and choose one to be the Wand of Whimsy; turns it into a combat monster by turn 3.

Removing some options from the Winds of Magic roll also seems well un-viable, i suppose if the randomness isn't up to your taste then yes choose something else...but overall Im confident to say that many Daemons of Chaos players have been competing at a very high level and placed highly, therefore if people are dealing with it find and winning then the chart isn't hampering them.

I think the real problem with a Daemon army is the General leadership and the Battle Standard that you haven't mentioned.

Only models with the same Mark can use the higher leadership of a model with the same mark or use the battle standard. The real problem is, an army that is mixed is better than a mono one - arguable i know...but clearly some units are better than others; like the Skull Cannon, Plaguebearers, Screamers, Seekers...all from different Gods. Meaning that some of them won't be able to benefit from battle standard and generals leadership; Daemons while they won't break are still low leadership...but of course the results have shown in tournaments they've done fine so i think the book i solid.

What could be interesting would be a Mark of Undivided for Daemon Princes allowing anyone to use his leadership....it would probably be quite costs...but again can't see it happening since the Marks give you definite benefits.

I'd say ur take is interesting...and has some merit but i'd think maybe just re-writing the Exalted and Greater gifts entirely would yield a better result..

kikibobo
23-10-2014, 02:43
Thanks for your input! I personally dont touch the exalted gifts atm either, but I typically run two greater gifts and default to one of the god specific weapons if I dont get the roll I want... or sometimes because it fits. I will have to give the four lesser gifts a go some time.

I didnt mean for this to necessarily be a "fix daemons" thread. And by no means did I intend they are not competitive. I just was looking for some quick fixes to make my casual gaming more enjoyable without the need to purchase a ton of new races.

If I were to "rework" the book while keeping the chaos feel of it, I would break down the gifts charts into gods (i.e. khorne gifts, nurgle gifts, slaanesh gifts, and tzeentch gifts... maybe undivided), break them down based on ultility (defensive, offensive, magic, etc.), or at the very least come up with charts where all choices are worthwhile. I would then probably go with sharing leadership with all but the god that that unit hates (i.e. Nurgle DP could share his leadership with all but tzeentch units). I doubt two of my buddies would allow this much change, so I was looking for something a little more straightforward

At first with the new book, I thought mono lists were the way to go, but then I realized the synergies of some of the models. I still run a lot of mono lists because I like the fluff side of it