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View Full Version : 15 vs 20 Irondrakes is there a huge difference?



Erikjust
24-10-2014, 09:55
Right now i am running a Dwarf gunline army at 2500 points and i was wondering how many Irondrakes would be fitting in such an army?

Right now i am using 20 with full command and Trollhammer plus 2 organ guns.
However when you also rune the organ guns up, the points quickly reaches maximum.

I might save a few points by reducing the Irondrakes to a units of 15 instead of 20, but i was wondering will that significantly decrease their stopping power/being able to stop a monstrous creatures or a unit of ogres or similar hard hitting units like that?

theJ
24-10-2014, 10:27
Well, assuming you deploy them 5x4... that means the "missing" rank wouldn't have gotten a shot anyway, and for any and all purposes was just +1 CR(meh. who cares?), as well as another rank your opponent needs to slaughter before you start losing attacks(the important bit).

You say you've played with 20 already, yes? How low, and how quickly do they tend to drop? Do you often find yourself relying on that last rank? If yes, removing it will cause you trouble. If no, it'd at least be worth a shot, yes? It's not like you can't just go back to your current list if it all goes horribly wrong :)

Erikjust
24-10-2014, 10:35
This is the list i am running.

Heroes-Lords: 538
Thane BSB, Crossbow, Master Rune of Valaya 167
Runesmith, Great Weapons, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone 96
Runesmith, Great Weapons, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone, Rune of Fire 101
Master Engineer, Handgun, Rune of Stone 87
Master Engineer, Handgun, Rune of Stone 87

Core: 660
20 Quarrellers, Shields, Full command, Great Weapons 330
20 Quarrellers, Shields, Full Command, Great Weapons 330

Special 615
Gyrocopter 80
Gyrocopter 80
Gyrocopter 80
Cannon, Rune of Forging, Rune of burning 150
Cannon, Rune of Forging 145
Grudge Thrower 80


Rare: 625
Organ Gun Rune of Burning, Rune of Accuracy 150
Organ Gun Rune of Burning 125
20 Irondrakes, Full Command, Trollhammer 350

I usually go with a 2x10 to get the most out of the units.

theJ
24-10-2014, 14:33
I usually go with a 2x10 to get the most out of the units.

Well, in that case... 5 is a rather strange number to drop 'em by; you'll get uneven ranks, it'll look messy, the skies shall fall, rivers turn to blood, and you'll be laughed out of your gaming group! :eek:
Dropping them by 4 or 6 avoids said problem.

In turns of effectiveness... you WOULD lose some of that... but my final advice will nevertheless stay the same; Give it a shot. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work, you can just go back to your old, trod-in list, and walk out of it all with a lesson learnt.

kikibobo
24-10-2014, 14:38
Well, in that case... 5 is a rather strange number to drop 'em by; you'll get uneven ranks, it'll look messy, the skies shall fall, rivers turn to blood, and you'll be laughed out of your gaming group! :eek:
Dropping them by 4 or 6 avoids said problem.

In turns of effectiveness... you WOULD lose some of that... but my final advice will nevertheless stay the same; Give it a shot. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work, you can just go back to your old, trod-in list, and walk out of it all with a lesson learnt.

My guess is that if he dropped to 15, it would be a single unit. I have seen irondrakes destroy if they get into position. Having two groups of ten would offer more flexibility but less firepower. Alternatively, a group of 15 would probably paint a target on itself as it marches closer which might drop you down to 10 or less before you even get a shot off (I know my skull cannon(s) would be aiming that direction). i say stick with the 2x10 irondrakes. If they get shredded or under perform then switch it up like theJ suggests

Erikjust
24-10-2014, 15:21
Maybe i should just run with a single unit of 20 set it in two ranks with 10 in each rank.

Like this:

##########
##########

And just have them guard one flank.

I would love to run them in 2 units with 10 in each, but i fear it will be the same as when i tried that in a battle against Orks and Goblins.
Instead of being a concrete wall they will turn into a speed bump.

Thatīs really why i considered going with a single unit of 15 or 14 instead of 20 to get a few extra points to rune up the Organ guns.
But again as i understand Irondrakes main function it as as an anvil unit meant to guard flanks.
And as such i donīt know if a unit of 20 set in 2 ranks is better at this, then a units of 15 or 14, put in the same 2 ranks.

kikibobo
24-10-2014, 15:25
2 ranks of 10 make them much less vulnerable to cannon attacks, but that would be your call

Montegue
24-10-2014, 15:46
2 ranks of 10 make them much less vulnerable to cannon attacks, but that would be your call

If people are shhooting my iron drakes with their cannons, they are not shooting my war machines. And I'm down with that.

pinktaco
24-10-2014, 16:54
Why don't you just pick up a calculator and do the math on the units you're generally using them against? After this you can better judge whether or not you should drop a set amount of models.

kikibobo
24-10-2014, 21:01
If people are shhooting my iron drakes with their cannons, they are not shooting my war machines. And I'm down with that.

ha good point. I guess I left all the warmachines out of my cannon bait priority list. If I saw 15-20 ranked with a 5-6 front though, I might have to consider taking a shot or two at it before they get to me

russellmoo
25-10-2014, 05:53
You could always save 20 points by dropping the trollhammer, and instead take a brace of pistols, I find this works well for an irondrakes unit that tends to see combat, as it increases the effectiveness of your stand and shoot, as well as gives the champ an additional close combat attack.

Looking at your list, it appears that the irondrakes are your third block of infantry. I would try dropping the trollhammer and maybe two models, but not many more than that. If you do the above you will have fifty points to work with.

Fighting Newfoundlander
26-10-2014, 19:31
Looking at your list, it appears that the irondrakes are your third block of infantry. I would try dropping the trollhammer and maybe two models, but not many more than that. If you do the above you will have fifty points to work with.

I think this is a crucial point. You have a lot of shooting, and some decent diversion with the gyros, but when the enemy gets to you, your force is thin on the ground. I would not lose many guys from the Irondrakes, as they are your main infantry block, in addition to being shooty.