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MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
29-10-2014, 08:24
Hello warseer, I'm looking at starting lizardmen and seeking advice as I know little about how the army plays all I know is I love dinosaurs and the whole range looks cool, i do love close combat, and all the big Dino kits!!! Thanks in advance

MOMUS
29-10-2014, 23:37
Hello MIGHTMAKESRIGHT
What would you like to know?

As a fairly strong lizardmen player I find that increasingly they are a finesse army, you're not guna be stomping across the board in horde formation.
There are some very strong choices in the book but also some fairly weak ones. A combined list of combat, shooting and magic is possible but you have to look in the right places.

PS skinks are awesome.

Armond
30-10-2014, 05:58
I think it all depends. You like close combat and dinos? The dual carnosaur lists are doing rather well, one Scar and one Old Blood. Throw in a pair of skink priests with Beast and Heavens, and you have a good chance of having a nice buff and debuff spell at your disposal, plus the chance to carry a scroll and the cube if you want to even the playing field against someone heavy in magic.

Yes, skinks are awesome, javelin and shield ones especially. They are great for chaff/redirectors. Salamanders are also nice, that S4 flame template wrecks T3 armies with no issues. Either field them in a pair or if alone with the extra skink handler.

Stegadons, always fun to have and scary to boot. Plus with the addition of a Steggy or two, you cause the opponent to make choices, hard choices on where to put their firepower. You can use Kroxigors as a type of screen for monsters, let them absorb cannonballs and such.

Dual Carno
2 x Lvl 2 Skink Priests (1 Beast/1 Heavens)
30 x Saurus Warriors(a middle ground anvil, T4 is decent, and a 4+ Armor Save in HtH is decent with the 6+ Parry to boot)
2-3 x 10 Skinks with Javelins
Steggy
Ancient Steggy

annnnnnd what ever else floats your boat. This is of course leaning towards getting into close combat somehow.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
30-10-2014, 08:35
Thanks momus and armond for gettin this thread goin, I'm just looking for general advice on getting started really as I know very little, that list is exactly the kind of list I'm looking for as I love the big dinos especially the carnosaur so if that kind of list is usable that's fantastic to get me started as not too many models, then at least I can play and then add to the list and change up my options, I really like terradons too how are they in the game??? Thanks again for your replies too much appreciated

Armond
31-10-2014, 01:44
Not sure on the Terradons to be honest, I am about to see about them myself. I like the idea of Ripperdactyls, but I feel that maybe they would be a bit harder to control due to their frenzy, plus the only thing I want a unit like the flying skirmishers to engage are real weak chaff, a long character, or a warmachine. But someone else will have to speak on the effectiveness of Terradons.

MOMUS
31-10-2014, 21:02
I use terradons in almost every game.
In the old book two min sized units were a must, nowadays I use a single unit of 3 and two terradon chiefs. 3 vanguards towards enemy units every game is great, usually they flee and charge end up In general range, rally and do it again. They are also effective double flee units. The drop in Ld and price hike really effects this unit, the terradon chiefs mitigate this due to their higher ld and all round stats. Magic item allowance means you can tailor them to suit your army (Enchanted shield gives a chief a 2+ AS).
Other odd items are worth experimenting with like the mask of ee!, ruby ring, quango etc
Normal terradons are mainly used in my army to destroy depleted units, warmachines, chaff, harry larger units, march block and generally be a nuisance.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
07-11-2014, 10:14
Would you recommend gettin the battalion box???

Malagor
07-11-2014, 10:19
Absolutely. That box has nothing but good stuff in it.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
07-11-2014, 19:02
Cool might get that then, what's peoples thoughts on how best to equip saurus warriors I'm thinkin hand weapon and shields but am open to advice

Malagor
07-11-2014, 19:07
Yeah survivability is best for them.
The extra supporting attacks isn't really that worth it since predatory fighter doesn't apply for supporting ranks.

MOMUS
08-11-2014, 18:05
Battalion? A bit of a lame duck if you ask me.

skinks: great
temple guard: good -only ten :mad:
saurus: ok I suppose
cold ones: no. Just no :no:

Malagor
08-11-2014, 18:15
Cold ones are good tho and even if you don't use them you can still make a Oldblood and a Scar-vet on cold one with them.

MOMUS
08-11-2014, 18:44
Cold ones are good tho and even if you don't use them you can still make a Oldblood and a Scar-vet on cold one with them.

Nah not really. Haven't changed in form or function -apart from losing the ability to take a magic banner.
I did think about making the characters but nobody would need to make 8 cowboy vets (ET aside) and to top it off the models are poor.

Malagor
08-11-2014, 18:58
Well there are no better models for it and while I haven't used a big unit of cold one yet, my 5 model unit has done well from themselfs, providing a fast, hard to kill unit.
And seen other LM players where I play use atleast 10 of them in a unit and do well so don't dismiss them.

N00B
08-11-2014, 19:08
If you run lore of light they can be scary - extra attacks and/or boosted weapon skill are a big threat from that small unit. Good in shooting/avoidance lists as you should never have a lot of different combats vying for your attention from buffs/hexes.

Malagor
08-11-2014, 19:11
Well anything is scary in a LM army with lore of light :p
Same when they got some hands of glory on them, once got the big hands of glory on my 30 block of TGs and got the max. They got quite insane.

MOMUS
08-11-2014, 20:55
Well there are no better models for it and while I haven't used a big unit of cold one yet, my 5 model unit has done well from themselfs, providing a fast, hard to kill unit.
And seen other LM players where I play use atleast 10 of them in a unit and do well so don't dismiss them.

It's a waste of plastic, most people would prefer the superior skink or temple guard sculpts.
Typically they are used as a bodyguard block for vets and in conjunction with tettoekko. On their own they are a bit of a let down.

Malagor
08-11-2014, 20:59
Well not saying that they are amazing, spears really should be cheaper or free but they aren't bad.
There are bad and horrible stuff in the book and the Cold ones aren't one of them.

MOMUS
08-11-2014, 21:04
Agreed. But then again saying they're not bad or horrible isn't really a commendation of their performance :p
Distinctly lacklustre would sum them up.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
08-11-2014, 21:10
What's the bad and horrible stuff in the book????

Malagor
08-11-2014, 21:23
Troglodon, stay far away from it. Build the Carnosaur instead.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
08-11-2014, 21:36
Thanks, anything else???

MOMUS
08-11-2014, 22:47
Troglodon. Arc of sotek. Swarms. All the non steg monsters stat lines. All the special characters bar maybe tetto and kroak.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
09-11-2014, 06:52
That's not too surprising a list actually, I prefer the solar engine anyway and really like the carnosaur, is the carnosaur a workable option I know monsters aren't considered that great in general but would really like too use it maybe more than 1 if its do able???

Malagor
09-11-2014, 09:23
The carnos work overall well but like with all monster mounts they depend alot on what army you are facing.
Against non-cannon armies they work and are fun to use but against cannons you have to be very lucky for them not to die in the first round.
And solar engine is way better indeed. Easy to cast spell that forces the opponent to decide if he/she wants to risk it or use 2 dispell dices to remove it.

MOMUS
09-11-2014, 18:15
The problem with the carnosaur is that it's stat line is disgustingly poor, it's meant to be THE apex predator!
It won't hit anything but a barn door so you're hoping for a good thinderstomp and the character doing the work. It's two upgrades should just be included in the cost, even razordons have swift stride.
laser bastiladon is ok but pretty shoddy stat line. No stubborn, low Ld, S4?!, T5 and only 4wounds. Good to terror bomb lesser armies chaff and still laser something or pin a unit like slaves, zombies etc.

Malagor
09-11-2014, 19:00
Well the carnosaur in my opinion excel at dealing with monsters.
Against other characters it can work but you will most of the time hit on 5s but will have a easy time to wound.
But monsters often have poor WS to begin with and with S7 it can deal with high T.
Very much like Sharpened horns for the stegadon, all about finding the right target for it.

MOMUS
10-11-2014, 00:13
Just to put you into perspective, chaos maurader horses have higher WS than a carnosaur.
stegs are the exemplar, the rest of the monsters are a poor cousin in comparison.

forseer of fates
10-11-2014, 00:20
The problem with the carnosaur is that it's stat line is disgustingly poor.

You can say that about nearly every monster:P

Malagor
10-11-2014, 05:10
Just to put you into perspective, chaos maurader horses have higher WS than a carnosaur.

Marauders got better or equal WS to most of LMs units, only our characters can beat them in that regard.
It's the LM way that the WS and I is poor.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
10-11-2014, 20:02
Well I really love the carnosaur model so will be definitely using at least one, and a bastiladon and a stegadon!!!

Malagor
10-11-2014, 20:25
You can never have enough dinosaurs :p.
I got one list where I got 2 carnos, 2 bastiladons and 2 ancient stegadons. It looks cool as hell and as long as I don't face cannons it actually does well, LM list that I have won most games with when it comes to my Lizardmen army.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
10-11-2014, 20:55
Sounds perfect would you mind sharing the list with me???

Malagor
10-11-2014, 21:10
Oh it's pretty simple.
1. Old blood on Carno, I usually give him the stegadon helm just for the fun of it and a 4+ ward save. The rest is different depending on mood.
2. Scar-vet on Carno with BSB, no magic banner, equip him with whatever you feel like, the egg can be funny. Both the carnos are fully upgraded.
2 lvl 2 skink priests, I usually use lore of heavens these days, atleast one of them got a Dispel.
2 blocks of 24-26 saurus warriors Hw/s having the skink priest tag along in each group.
1 unit of 10 skink skirmishers with javelin, never go blowpipes on these guys, the javelins are too amazing to give up. They just run around and annoy which they do very well.
2 Bastiladons with the sun laser.
2 Ancients Stegadons with sharpened horns, both with giant blowpipes.

In my area there aren't alof of dwarf or empire players so cannons aren't that common hence I can bring these kind of lists and when I do they never really expect it due to sites like Warseer telling them that they won't face such lists hence they have no way of dealing with it.
If the meta is different in your area then do reconsider tho.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
11-11-2014, 11:52
Thanks alot that looks like my kind of list will prob try and fit some terradons in there tho

Spiney Norman
11-11-2014, 12:24
The problem with the carnosaur is that it's stat line is disgustingly poor, it's meant to be THE apex predator!
It won't hit anything but a barn door so you're hoping for a good thinderstomp and the character doing the work. It's two upgrades should just be included in the cost, even razordons have swift stride.
laser bastiladon is ok but pretty shoddy stat line. No stubborn, low Ld, S4?!, T5 and only 4wounds. Good to terror bomb lesser armies chaff and still laser something or pin a unit like slaves, zombies etc.

I think you're maybe being a little unfair, the Carno is the apex predator in Lustria, when all you have to contend with in your food chain are wild stegs, Bastis, razors, sallies and cold ones I would guess the carno does pretty well.

And monster mounts don't typically have high WS, although if monster mounted characters follow the pattern of the end times models next edition the Carnosaur Oldblood could become a fearsome beast indeed. A pretty easy 2+, 9 St7 attacks at WS6 with frenzy and D3 multi-wounds, I'm not seeing much of a downside to that.

Malagor
11-11-2014, 13:03
Add PF to that as well.
They will be nasty indeed.

phlewis
13-11-2014, 19:44
I recommend the Ripperdactyls and bring the blue toads. The Rippers can take on most troops unless they are high armour/toughness and tear them apart. Just put the blue toad with the unit you want your Rippers to destroy and the shear number of attacks is insane. And there is no way to get rid of the toad. They are dangerous enough to make your opponent have to think hard about concentrating on them rather than other parts of your army. I hate fighting Rippers!

Salamanders can also do an inordinate amount of damage with their flaming attack which they can use every turn unlike most monsters with that kind of weapon.

Possibly your biggest frustration will be that almost everyone has a higher initiative than most of the Lizardmen, including skeletons. Your tough but slow.

If your Stegedons are menaced by bolt throwers or cannons send the Rippers after them. By the time they have dealt with the Rippers your Stegs will be romping through the enemy line and fairly safe from artillery.

Skink Skirmishers will drive your opponent insane. You can have enough that he can't get rid of them and he can't just ignore them.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
15-11-2014, 09:28
Yeah I like the look of rippers too really looking forward to getting this army going really happy with my decision to start a lizardmen army!!!!

pinktaco
15-11-2014, 10:59
I think you're maybe being a little unfair, the Carno is the apex predator in Lustria, when all you have to contend with in your food chain are wild stegs, Bastis, razors, sallies and cold ones I would guess the carno does pretty well.

And monster mounts don't typically have high WS, although if monster mounted characters follow the pattern of the end times models next edition the Carnosaur Oldblood could become a fearsome beast indeed. A pretty easy 2+, 9 St7 attacks at WS6 with frenzy and D3 multi-wounds, I'm not seeing much of a downside to that.

Let's not go there. Elfs on dragons with ASF and high initiative with fly isn't something I'm looking forward. The carnosaur will be weak in comparison.

Malagor
16-11-2014, 11:53
Let's not go there. Elfs on dragons with ASF and high initiative with fly isn't something I'm looking forward. The carnosaur will be weak in comparison.
Well depending on the dragon they pick I can see the old dragons giving them ASL.
And D3 wounds will eat that dragon up once it gets to hit which it will.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
16-11-2014, 13:32
Not to mention the carnosaur bein way cooler!!!!

Malagor
16-11-2014, 14:34
Well I wouldn't say that.
The HE dragon is a sweet model.
But concept-wise, a dinosaur riding a even bigger dinosaur is cooler.

MOMUS
16-11-2014, 19:36
This thread just makes me wish the lizard list was cool.

Spiney Norman
16-11-2014, 20:00
Let's not go there. Elfs on dragons with ASF and high initiative with fly isn't something I'm looking forward. The carnosaur will be weak in comparison.

Let's just say the fastest way to sell me another plastic carnosaur would be to slap a combined profile for Kroq Gar/Grymlok (call it Kroqlok) in the next end times book.

Mavir
21-11-2014, 07:43
I'm in the same boat, but I really like skinks, what do people think of a skink list? And what would you take?

MOMUS
22-11-2014, 08:57
Haha I like your style. Skinks are often seen as the more competitive choice, you'll want to be taking a mix of skirmishers and units of 10-20 skink cohorts. Terradons, razordons, salamander and then max out of characters like scarvets on coldones.

thesoundofmusica
22-11-2014, 10:25
Haha I like your style. Skinks are often seen as the more competitive choice, you'll want to be taking a mix of skirmishers and units of 10-20 skink cohorts. Terradons, razordons, salamander and then max out of characters like scarvets on coldones.

This.
But really if you like saurus, stegadons and chameleons you'll do fine aswell.

Mavir
24-11-2014, 21:05
Ok, I'm thinking tettoeko, two priests with lore of beasts, scroll and cube.
Old blood on cold one, armour of Destiny with the pirhana blade. He'll be in a cold one unit with spears (unsure on size and first choice for vanguard)
40 skinks with command and poison attacks.
20 skinks basic (for priests)
6 razordons
6 terradons
2 bastiladons with solar engine
4 kroxigor if I can fit them in.

What do you think?

Mavir
24-11-2014, 21:06
Ok, I'm thinking tettoeko, two priests with lore of beasts, scroll and cube.
Old blood on cold one, armour of Destiny with the pirhana blade. He'll be in a cold one unit with spears (unsure on size and first choice for vanguard)
40 skinks with command and poison attacks.
20 skinks basic (for priests)
6 razordons
6 terradons
2 bastiladons with solar engine
4 kroxigor if I can fit them in.

What do you think?