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Silent Surrender
11-11-2014, 17:40
Aside from vect and lelith I mean. Whats behind that door? I get the feeling reading the end of the timeline in both the dark eldar codex and haemonculus covens that 40k migth also get "the end times" or "the time of ending" liek whfb.

StrikeDeath
11-11-2014, 19:15
Its the Hive Mind. I'm not even joking here :P
The only 40k "end-game" scenario that works as a credible threat to everyone is Tyranids. No not Demons or Chaos factions but the Great Devourer. Look up the lore, multiple Hive Fleets attacking multiple targets, across multiple sectors who don't have loyalty to anything other than eating you because you "taste-good-with-sauce".

T10
11-11-2014, 20:21
The Khaine's gate is demystified on page 8 of the new Dark Eldar codex.

It's just a rift in the web way, the Doom of the Fall is about to catch up with the Dark Eldar.

-T10

Inquisitor Shego
12-11-2014, 04:00
Some say it's where Gav Thorpe locked the Squats

bloodlamb
12-11-2014, 09:22
Actually the hive mind sounds like a good guess, and fits nicely that they have no allies in the ally matrix. Furthermore, to debunk any chaos ideas, Fabius Bile and Lucius the eternal were both hanging around the dark city spending time with some of the covens. Makes me wonder, why the hell are they hanging out with the dark kin considering slannesh loves to eat those yummy elf souls.

Denny
12-11-2014, 09:48
Actually the hive mind sounds like a good guess, and fits nicely that they have no allies in the ally matrix. Furthermore, to debunk any chaos ideas, Fabius Bile and Lucius the eternal were both hanging around the dark city spending time with some of the covens. Makes me wonder, why the hell are they hanging out with the dark kin considering slannesh loves to eat those yummy elf souls.

The Dark Eldar codex is pretty explicit that its daemons.
I believe they note that the gate leads to a part of the webway that had to be sealed off because of a warp breach.

Plus the guards keep hearing whispers from behind the door and have started carving 'Let us in' into their flesh. Sounds a bit more daemon-y than Hive Mind-y. :)

Vect has also started stealing 'blanks' to try and keep the gates sealed . . . but its not working . . .

Arachnia
12-11-2014, 10:04
Stealing blanks? What do you mean?

BigHammer
12-11-2014, 10:07
The Dark Eldar codex is pretty explicit that its daemons.
I believe they note that the gate leads to a part of the webway that had to be sealed off because of a warp breach.

Plus the guards keep hearing whispers from behind the door and have started carving 'Let us in' into their flesh. Sounds a bit more daemon-y than Hive Mind-y. :)

Vect has also started stealing 'blanks' to try and keep the gates sealed . . . but its not working . . .

This.

During the Fall, most of the Webway was lost to Daemons. Modern-day 40k webway is a fraction of what it once was, and is dangerous to all bar the Harlequins, supposedly (and probably even to them, to some extent). The exact same thing is happening at the Golden Throne, with the same implied outcome; Commoragh is, after all, located in the webway itself. It was only a matter of time until it was found, and now the Daemons want in.

This probably ties in slightly to why Psykers are forbidden to enter Commoragh (save for the Shadowseers); the presence of any psychicly active mind would draw the Daemons to the dark city like moths to a flame, and I'm pretty sure that's an outcome everyone would rather avoid (except the daemons, of course).

The addition of Khaine's Gate was probably one of my favourite new bits in the codex. Previously the Dark Eldar were almost unassailable, hidden from the galaxy in their high castle and only suffering invasion when it suited them to; now they have a real stake in the end times, where their survival rests on that of Realspace (their source of sustenance and protection from Slaanesh), while at the same time their safe haven is no longer even that.


Stealing blanks? What do you mean?

Blanks are humans that have no presence in the warp, and are anathema to the denizens thereof. They absorb warp energy (or cancel it somehow) and mask the presence of those around them from daemons. Vect stole a large number of them from the Imperium alive, and chained them up in the basement with the gate, in the hopes that they would protect Commoragh from the Daemons. Such is the mass of the incursion behind the gate, though, that even the blanks are going mad, and the seals are still failing.

Harwammer
12-11-2014, 10:44
This is probably because of the Great Awakening; Increasing numbers of humans are exhibiting psychic powers and despite the Imperium's best efforts they do not have the capacity to process them (i.e. either feed them to the corpse emperor or soulbind them to him).

Now the long game of the Imperium is to kill off the unfit psykers as quickly as possible to speed humanity's evolution into a race that can safely harness psychic powers. Unfortunately until they are processed the unfit psykers act as force multipliers to daemons and their activities. This, combined with the violent and treasonous nature of 40K politics, means the warp is becoming more and more volatile and daemon incursion more and more common across the galaxy.

Basically Dark Eldar are the Bangladesh of the 40k world; although they cause a bit of pollution themselves (their pain eating ways) they really are the victim of the big powerhouses of the world (humanity) causing a rising tide (of chaos activity) that threatens to drown their homelands (Commoragh).

Just Tony
12-11-2014, 14:31
Our dread lord Cthulhu

Ambience 327
12-11-2014, 14:49
It's the paperboy. He wants his $2.00.

Schismotive
12-11-2014, 18:29
there's no denying something's up with that whole portal to hell inside hell business. But yeah I also think the real end to the galaxy, if not the universe would still be the tyranids. Eventually anyway. I sometimes think it would be neat if there was a little future of 40k scenario (like 50k or something) where space marines are nearly extinct, the imperium is just hanging on, and the xenos races have gone into hiding, or just completely died out. Tyranids and the warp would be the big baddies

Liber
12-11-2014, 18:59
Since when are Orks and Necrons not considered End Times level threats in 40k? :confused:



As far as the gate goes - It probably is demons, but my gut says something else...or at least something very specific, as opposed to generally demonic.


One would think given the history, that it would be Slaanesh him/herself on the other side there, but it does seem to be something plural, especially with the 'let us in' bit.


I'm very curious to see how long GW keeps the lid (lol) on this one before they let it blow, as part of a game wide campaign.

insectum7
12-11-2014, 20:54
The addition of Khaine's Gate was probably one of my favourite new bits in the codex. Previously the Dark Eldar were almost unassailable, hidden from the galaxy in their high castle and only suffering invasion when it suited them to; now they have a real stake in the end times, where their survival rests on that of Realspace (their source of sustenance and protection from Slaanesh), while at the same time their safe haven is no longer even that.


So I forget now, the Space Marine assault on Commoragh to get their ship back. Was that part of some big-backstabby Dark Eldar plan? I remember SMs plowing their own ships into DE towers and generally making a big mess, but that it also changed DE politics somehow. They take out a rival to Vect? My memory fails here.

I also agree with the sentiment that they should feel more threatened than they have in the past. Seems like the more "fitting" threat would be Chaos (at last).


It's the paperboy. He wants his $2.00.

That is a great movie.

Denny
12-11-2014, 21:03
So I forget now, the Space Marine assault on Commoragh to get their ship back. Was that part of some big-backstabby Dark Eldar plan? I remember SMs plowing their own ships into DE towers and generally making a big mess, but that it also changed DE politics somehow. They take out a rival to Vect?.

It was a set up by Vect in order to seize power. He 'accidentally' let the marine reinforcements in, and his rivals were all mysteriously murdered during the ensuring chaos.

Silversage
12-11-2014, 21:03
I'm going to have to agree with the few posters here that say the Tyranids are public enemy number one. When they hit in force, and even the known Hive Fleets have been but "smaller" detachments, they will obliterate everything. Except Necrons because, you know, metal has a bad taste to it. Orks may be one of the most troublesome and warlike races ever to exist, but even their numbers will eventually be consumed because they don't really care for anything other than fighting. The Imperium is, and I'm preparing to BLAM myself for this heresy, more or less destined to fall, either at the hands of Chaos or at the claws/tentacles/appendages of xenos. The current state of it cannot continue and when the Golden Throne finally fails and the Emperor perishes (another BLAM), humanity will fall. Unless some of the more brighter theories are true and the Emprah is reborn or the Starchild exists or whatnot. Necrons are a big threat, I'll grant you that, but they possess a certain kind of reason and logic that the Hive Mind does not. The Necrons are annoying as ***** and even more difficult to REALLY kill, but they CAN be beaten by the Imperium. Nids are just relentless and their numbers never really end.

If only somebody would find a way to subvert oncoming Hive Fleets to the Eye of Terror or the Maelstrom. That would be funny as hell.

As to the original question, as I've been WAAAAYYYY off track, I'd go with Daemons as well. I know next to nothing about Dark Eldar lore and their codex, but from the opinions and information shared here, I'd say that's a safe bet. They just got a whole lot more interesting for me as they are no longer just "the ***holes in the webway that troll the crap out of everyone else to stay alive" but actually have their existence at stake in the near future.

Scammel
12-11-2014, 21:10
Orks may be one of the most troublesome and warlike races ever to exist, but even their numbers will eventually be consumed because they don't really care for anything other than fighting.

Not sure I quite get the logic here....


The current state of it cannot continue and when the Golden Throne finally fails and the Emperor perishes (another BLAM), humanity will fall.

And that's when the other, really big Chaos portal opens on Terra and noms existence.

WarsmithGarathor94
13-11-2014, 08:29
Malys and slaanesh

Grubnar
13-11-2014, 13:44
Since when are Orks and Necrons not considered End Times level threats in 40k? :confused:

The Necrons had their chance 65 million years ago, and fumbled it. Their odds of "success" are much smaller now.

The Orkz could wipeout every other faction, easy, but only if they were to unite ... and they never will. That is sort of their theme, the whole point behind their design. The only time they have ever come close, in recent times, was "Da Big Party!", when all the other clans united against the Blood Axes, because they had been "getting too big for their boots" as they put it. That was conflict on a scale not seen in the galaxy since the fall of the Necrons (except for perhapps the Age of Strife or the Horus Heresy).

Ambience 327
13-11-2014, 15:57
That is a great movie.

I wondered whether anyone would catch the reference. The 80's were so very long ago.

Ghungo
13-11-2014, 16:49
The Necrons had their chance 65 million years ago, and fumbled it. Their odds of "success" are much smaller now.

The Orkz could wipeout every other faction, easy, but only if they were to unite ... and they never will. That is sort of their theme, the whole point behind their design. The only time they have ever come close, in recent times, was "Da Big Party!", when all the other clans united against the Blood Axes, because they had been "getting too big for their boots" as they put it. That was conflict on a scale not seen in the galaxy since the fall of the Necrons (except for perhapps the Age of Strife or the Horus Heresy).

This^^^
The orks are the most numerous and nearly unstoppable since the more they fight the more spores they produce and the larger they grow in numbers however they are uncontrolled and fight amongst them selves just as much as others.

Necrons pretty much just want to see the elder destroyed. I'm not sure thier motive beyond that lies. Tyranids pretty much want to eat everyone even chaos (except necrons who they don't find edible). Also all the current hive fleets are pretty much considered scout fleets or tendrils of a much larger force. Tyranids already ate thier own galaxy and are moving into other galaxies looking for more nomnom.

However there is always room for a Hail Mary pass from a resurrected emperor who probably foresaw and schemed his own survival. A few living cytans such as the Mars dragon and who knows what else out there. I would also name a few primarchs that are likely alive but in the grand scheme of things they really aren't as powerful.

Also isn't there a chaos god that all the other chaos gods fear?

Scammel
13-11-2014, 16:52
Tyranids already ate thier own galaxy and are moving into other galaxies looking for more nomnom.


This is only speculation - it's equally been suggested that the Tyranid race is fleeing something...


Also isn't there a chaos god that all the other chaos gods fear?

No.

Chem-Dog
13-11-2014, 16:55
Some say it's where Gav Thorpe locked the Squats

Others say it is where Mat Ward locked Gav Thorpe....



One would think given the history, that it would be Slaanesh him/herself on the other side there, but it does seem to be something plural, especially with the 'let us in' bit.

I wouldn't be surprised if any Chaos God were to take to using the Royal Plural, especially not when the God in question owns the sobriquet "Dark Prince".
Alternatively one could say the "us" is a host of Slaaneshi Daemons trying to bust down the gate for their master.

NagashLover
13-11-2014, 20:02
Maybe it's the Eldar that fell/consumed during the Great Fall.

I mean, what better way to portray the kindness of Chaos than by having them reunite families together?



or....





Nagash.

;)

Azazyll
13-11-2014, 21:01
We have no idea the extent of the Necron threat, because it's unclear how many tombs have yet to awaken. But they are not losers, they effectively have no rival in power now. The Imperium cannot stop them, especially if united, and unlike the Orks that could actually hsppen, as the Silent King and his Praetorians yet live. The Necrons are up there with the Nids, which, fluff suggests, are the very reason the Silent King began the process of awakening the tombs.

Orks are just vermin, Eldar a dying threat, Tau too localized (really the most small-time of the factions, especially without FTL travel). The real question is whether the galaxy will end by being corrupted, devoured, or annihilated.

But on the main subject, the Khaine gate is clearly a link to more than just Daemons, or I doubt Vect would have so cavalearly allowed a whole satelite real
m to be flooded with them before.

agurus1
13-11-2014, 21:02
Kinda off topic but I thought some inquisitor was trying to develop a bio weapon to wipe out tyranid fleets with some marginal success? If he could implement it on a large scale it could prove to be the undoing of the hive fleets.

Carnelian
13-11-2014, 22:03
That's the basic plot of Imperial Armour 4 - the Anphelion Project.

Spoiler: actually edited to remove supplier, but let's just say that it's a work in progress

Azazyll
13-11-2014, 23:49
Kinda off topic but I thought some inquisitor was trying to develop a bio weapon to wipe out tyranid fleets with some marginal success? If he could implement it on a large scale it could prove to be the undoing of the hive fleets.

They'd just evolve to be immune. Which I think they did in the fluff you're referring to

Messiah
14-11-2014, 07:19
It's a pity really. Last codex, they began expanding the lore around the dark eldar talking about mysterious realms and suggesting there existed supernatural enemies other than chaos. This codex, they dumbed it all down by saying that those realms were actually parts of Comorragh and that the supernatural enemies were other aspects of chaos. The gate is an entrance to the warp, and the ones pounding the door are most probably daemons of Slaanesh come to cash in their debt.

SirBlackmane
14-11-2014, 12:18
We have no idea the extent of the Necron threat, because it's unclear how many tombs have yet to awaken. But they are not losers, they effectively have no rival in power now.

I'm sorry, but statements like this put a smile on my face. Every single faction -bar none- in 40k are losers. It's basically what defines the universe and makes it so engaging, the fact that none of them can get their acts in gear.

The Imperium is unstoppable - if only the Emperor wakes up and fixes all the many, many broken things.

The Necrons are unstoppable - if only they can get their tech support to find and hit the power buttons on all their many, many deactivated bits of gear.

The Tyranids are unstoppable - if they can manage to prevent having entire give fleets wiped out by a single blue-painted Space Marine Chapter.

The Orks are unstoppable - if they can stay united for long enough. Which, well, they can't. Because they're Orks.

The forces of Chaos are unstoppable - if they can stay united for long enough. Which, well, they can't. Because they're worse thanOrks with the infighting.

The Eldar would be unstoppable - if their civilization and population centers hadn't been been tragically shattered ten millennia ago. And they spent the intervening time screwing over all the other races instead of rebuilding their own.

The Tau are unstoppable - as long as none of the other races cares enough to mobilize enough power to squash them. Not to mention they're only dancing to some hidden shadowy agenda.

It doesn't really matter what your chosen faction is: they'll be awesome at some things but downright terrible at capitalizing on them in the big picture. That's the actual balance of 40k.

But I do agree with most people in the topic that it's probably Daemons behind the door.

Muad'Dib
14-11-2014, 16:21
Actually the hive mind sounds like a good guess, and fits nicely that they have no allies in the ally matrix. Furthermore, to debunk any chaos ideas, Fabius Bile and Lucius the eternal were both hanging around the dark city spending time with some of the covens. Makes me wonder, why the hell are they hanging out with the dark kin considering slannesh loves to eat those yummy elf souls.
You are looknig at the background in way, way too simplistic terms if you think this is unusual.
Slaanesh is not a dude directing a nation of Slaanesh-worshippers. It is an elemental force so subtle, powerful and omnipresent that it is in effect a god...but - for example - there's no inborn loyalty or direction between Slaaneshites - just a feeling of familiarity that can just as easily turn into hostility or rivalry. Slaanesh isn't hostile per se towards Eldar - it's more that he finds them tasty and particularly amusing.
This - and also note that Lucius is not the type of person who would be particularly concerned with proselytizing or summoning Daemons. Now..inviting someone with the character, vision and abilities of Typhus would be a bad idea :evilgrin: ^^^. Note also that Lucius got in probably only due to his acquittance/comradeship with Bile.

Still Standing
14-11-2014, 17:42
The Tau are unstoppable - as long as none of the other races cares enough to mobilize enough power to squash them. Not to mention they're only dancing to some hidden shadowy agenda.

The Tau are unstoppable, so long as all of their military objectives are within walking distance.

Horus38
14-11-2014, 18:14
It's the demonic legions of chaos. Not sure how people (who have actually read the codex hint hint) are arriving at conclusions other than this... :shifty:

daveNYC
14-11-2014, 19:14
Because having it 'just' be the standard heap o'daemons looking for a good time is rather boring. At least when you consider just how kooky and crazy the webway could be.

Horus38
14-11-2014, 20:23
Because having it 'just' be the standard heap o'daemons looking for a good time is rather boring. At least when you consider just how kooky and crazy the webway could be.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting to be "something else", but the timeline in the codex is pretty clear that IS what it is.

Schismotive
15-11-2014, 05:37
That terrifying entity behind the door? I bet it's wave serpents!

Edit: I also submit that as my answer to the eventual end of the galaxy. Wave serpents

Mack
15-11-2014, 14:18
The end times are coming to 40K...that much we know. The success that ET has had on WFB is huge. GW sees all the $$$ pouring in, and will implement it in 40K.

There are many great points on who will be the instigator to perpetuate the End of Days as we know them. My money is on the Tyranids or Necron's.

The Tyranids are the definition of a race that has only one existence...to consume.

The Necrons are an unknown. We all know the Tyranids we have seen so far are just a portion of the entire blight they pose, but the Necrons are completely unknown on how vast their tombs reach. It could be few, or it could be every single planet in existence. The Necrons the races have encountered thus far all seem to be by accident as a tomb is opened, then the forces within released. They were probably not meant to be activated, but it is probably a safeguard built in that the tomb activates the Necron within to defend.

Also, the voices could be the Necron "gods" who somehow in times past were locked up (thus the fall of the Necron empire into a state of stasis, and why their army went into hibernation in tombs). Vect better be careful with the gate...(I do think the gate is the trigger to the end times)

If those gods were ever released, they could send out a pulse awakening every tomb in the universe and thus...Boom... end times. The Necron Gods introduce a new element without introducing a new army, something GW is likely NOT to do. (The only thing that doesn't fit in the Necron being the instigator is the Tyranids. They could be out of place as picking a side, but it could also be 2 instigators...Necron and Tyranid. Necrons against everyone, Tyranids against everyone, everyone else against Necron and Tyranid)

I love this stuff.... the narration is what makes playing WHFB and 40K so much fun!

In any scenario, expect big powerful entity models.

The Emperor reborn(Look to Nagash as an example of a super powerful single model)
The Necron Gods (I look at the Maggoth Lords or Glottkin as these examples)
The Tyranid Hive master (again Nagash as a single all powerful, or a series of powerful yet multiple models like the Maggoth or Glottkin)

I don't see the other armies having a single super powerful model, but several smaller yet good models as an option. maybe the Chaos Gods personified (Khorne, Nurgle, Slaneesh and Tzeentch each would be great single all powerful models)

Scammel
15-11-2014, 15:46
I don't see the other armies having a single super powerful model, but several smaller yet good models as an option.

Sorry, but I don't see any of those happening. Nagash may have returned, but Sigmar and Khorne are not stomping around the tables. The End Times is big, not the setting is actually ending big.

Mack
15-11-2014, 16:23
Sorry, but I don't see any of those happening. Nagash may have returned, but Sigmar and Khorne are not stomping around the tables. The End Times is big, not the setting is actually ending big.

Karl Franz ascendant isn't a fantasy equivalent of am Emperor Reborn version in 40K? (Maybe not an exact match because it's not Sigmar, but pretty damn close)? I think that alone could warrant an Emperor reborn version in 40K if 40K followed a similar theme to ET in WFB. As well Nagash could equal a super powerful single entity in 40K.

It's all speculation but to say that it will or won't happen doesn't have any merit one way or the other. My POV is only a speculation based on events in WFB ET and models/rules they released for WFB.

I ultimately see both rules mirroring each other. End Times models (or more importantly the rules for those models) going away after the event is over. Fortunately, the models could represent something else in a more normal setting, but the big baddies will probably only be valid during the event. It is a great way for GW to do a money grab. Any buyer of the super models who thinks they will have long term merit is kind of fooling themselves. The hobby is also about collecting as much as it is playing, so I went into buying some of the WFB to add to my collection. I could potentially proxy the maggoth as regular lords on daemonic mounts or Glottkin as a greater demon of Nurgle, but I never expected their rules to stay around forever.

Like I said, part of the fun is the speculation and enacting the narrative of the story.

Scammel
15-11-2014, 17:10
Karl Franz ascendant isn't a fantasy equivalent of am Emperor Reborn version in 40K? (Maybe not an exact match because it's not Sigmar, but pretty damn close)? I think that alone could warrant an Emperor reborn version in 40K if 40K followed a similar theme to ET in WFB. As well Nagash could equal a super powerful single entity in 40K.

The Emperor is on a different magnitude to pretty much everyone in Fantasy bar the Chaos Gods (who obviously straddle both settings). Even if Sigmar did reincarnate completely, the setting could probably still handle it - the outright rebirth of the Emperor ends 40k as we know it. As you say, speculation is fun, but it's important to remember the differences between the settings and which characters could be seen to be roughly analogous. A theoretical 40k endtimes could boast, say, a returned Primarch and a minor complete C'Tan, but I wouldn't bank on the Emperor and the Void Dragon.

Harwammer
15-11-2014, 17:27
Wasn't Sebastian Thor essentially the 40k setting's version of Karl Franz ascendant?

Edit: hmmm, maybe he was more of a Valten? I don't know...

Scammel
15-11-2014, 17:30
Wasn't Sebastian Thor essentially the 40k setting's version of Karl Franz ascendant?

Edit: hmmm, maybe he was more of a Valten? I don't know...

...ish. I gather that Thor wasn't so much directly empowered as 'inspired' - I think he was more of an orator and strategist than divine Hulk.

Mack
15-11-2014, 20:10
The Emperor is on a different magnitude to pretty much everyone in Fantasy bar the Chaos Gods (who obviously straddle both settings). Even if Sigmar did reincarnate completely, the setting could probably still handle it - the outright rebirth of the Emperor ends 40k as we know it. As you say, speculation is fun, but it's important to remember the differences between the settings and which characters could be seen to be roughly analogous. A theoretical 40k endtimes could boast, say, a returned Primarch and a minor complete C'Tan, but I wouldn't bank on the Emperor and the Void Dragon.

True Dat!

Seriously, you are right. Probably more like a Primarch (which lines up with Franz), but ultimately I think we will see some uber powered models coming out for 40k should they decide to do an end times event.

Ragnar69
15-11-2014, 22:54
If its a primarch, it has to be Russ. He himself said that he would return for the End Times ;)

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk

Kakapo42
15-11-2014, 23:58
I'm currently praying with all my might that something like the End Times NEVER comes to 40k. Not for a good decade or two at least. While it is true the narrative and setting are 40k's main appeal, I've found that it's my narrative, not GW's, that I truly enjoy, and the Warhammer Fantasy End Times fiasco has shown that my visions and GW's visions for the Warhammer settings simply do not line up. I feel it's much better to keep the freedom to go anywhere with 40k, especially since, well, after the plight of the Specialist Games and the End Times destroying almost all my enthusiasm for Fantasy, 40k is all I have left with GW games. Now I do have a couple of other, non-GW tabletop games identified as exciting new territory to expand to, but I'd still like to be invested in at least one or two GW tabletop games as well. You know, for old times' sake.

But I digress. What's banging on the Gate of Khaine? Daemons, probably, knowing modern GW background tendencies. Likely Slaaneshi ones.

What would be banging on it if I were in charge of GW background? Souls. Eldar souls. Hundreds of them. Thousands. Trapped since The Fall in a strange purgatory between the Webway and the Warp, in perpetual constant unrelenting agony, utterly terrified of being consumed by She Who Thirsts and constantly hounded by the minions of the Great Enemy, desperate to find refuge. Ironically if they were to ever be let in they could empower the Dark Eldar to such an extent that they would never have to drain the soul-essence of other races again, but such is the paranoia that has taken root in Dark Eldar society that they never consider the possibility that the thing on the other side of the gate might be beneficial, and so never realise the salvation that was thrown at them. They instead make damn well sure that nothing ever gets through the gate, the lost Eldar ghosts are excruciatingly torn apart by the eldritch forces that assail them, and the Dark Eldar continue on torturing and pillaging as usual.

Xerkics
17-11-2014, 12:52
Karl Franz ascendant isn't a fantasy equivalent of am Emperor Reborn version in 40K? (Maybe not an exact match because it's not Sigmar, but pretty damn close)? I think that alone could warrant an Emperor reborn version in 40K if 40K followed a similar theme to ET in WFB. As well Nagash could equal a super powerful single entity in 40K.

It's all speculation but to say that it will or won't happen doesn't have any merit one way or the other. My POV is only a speculation based on events in WFB ET and models/rules they released for WFB.

I ultimately see both rules mirroring each other. End Times models (or more importantly the rules for those models) going away after the event is over. Fortunately, the models could represent something else in a more normal setting, but the big baddies will probably only be valid during the event. It is a great way for GW to do a money grab. Any buyer of the super models who thinks they will have long term merit is kind of fooling themselves. The hobby is also about collecting as much as it is playing, so I went into buying some of the WFB to add to my collection. I could potentially proxy the maggoth as regular lords on daemonic mounts or Glottkin as a greater demon of Nurgle, but I never expected their rules to stay around forever.

Like I said, part of the fun is the speculation and enacting the narrative of the story.
Unless it's not clear end times are NOT an event and are NOT going away. No matter how much some people might claim otherwise it's not an event or expansion it's a progression of the setting.

theJ
17-11-2014, 13:17
I'm currently praying with all my might that something like the End Times NEVER comes to 40k. Not for a good decade or two at least. While it is true the narrative and setting are 40k's main appeal, I've found that it's my narrative, not GW's, that I truly enjoy, and the Warhammer Fantasy End Times fiasco has shown that my visions and GW's visions for the Warhammer settings simply do not line up. I feel it's much better to keep the freedom to go anywhere with 40k, especially since, well, after the plight of the Specialist Games and the End Times destroying almost all my enthusiasm for Fantasy, 40k is all I have left with GW games. Now I do have a couple of other, non-GW tabletop games identified as exciting new territory to expand to, but I'd still like to be invested in at least one or two GW tabletop games as well. You know, for old times' sake.

But I digress. What's banging on the Gate of Khaine? Daemons, probably, knowing modern GW background tendencies. Likely Slaaneshi ones.

What would be banging on it if I were in charge of GW background? Souls. Eldar souls. Hundreds of them. Thousands. Trapped since The Fall in a strange purgatory between the Webway and the Warp, in perpetual constant unrelenting agony, utterly terrified of being consumed by She Who Thirsts and constantly hounded by the minions of the Great Enemy, desperate to find refuge. Ironically if they were to ever be let in they could empower the Dark Eldar to such an extent that they would never have to drain the soul-essence of other races again, but such is the paranoia that has taken root in Dark Eldar society that they never consider the possibility that the thing on the other side of the gate might be beneficial, and so never realise the salvation that was thrown at them. They instead make damn well sure that nothing ever gets through the gate, the lost Eldar ghosts are excruciatingly torn apart by the eldritch forces that assail them, and the Dark Eldar continue on torturing and pillaging as usual.
<3


The Emperor is on a different magnitude to pretty much everyone in Fantasy bar the Chaos Gods (who obviously straddle both settings). Even if Sigmar did reincarnate completely, the setting could probably still handle it - the outright rebirth of the Emperor ends 40k as we know it. As you say, speculation is fun, but it's important to remember the differences between the settings and which characters could be seen to be roughly analogous. A theoretical 40k endtimes could boast, say, a returned Primarch and a minor complete C'Tan, but I wouldn't bank on the Emperor and the Void Dragon.

...assuming they believe him.
Seriously, these guys deal with superpowered "witches" every day of the week. What's the emperor got that would convince the high lords that he's the real deal?
The return of the Emperor would, at best, result in "the emperor" taking a lance battery to the face, and at worst, the beggining of a second heresy rebellion, as "the believers" clash with "the other believers" over the ruins of the imperium.

Which, to tell the truth, would actually make for a pretty kickass campaign.
Write up conflicting stories surrounding "the emperor reborn", murky the waters with chaos agents on both sides, throw in a few cryptic warnings from the eldar, and let all the players choose their sides.

Who knows, it might even drag me kicking and screaming back into 40k xD

Still Standing
17-11-2014, 14:05
The only feasable return for the Emperor is for him to die and become the Star Child. That's the best possible outcome for the galaxy.

Xerkics
19-11-2014, 11:51
The only feasable return for the Emperor is for him to die and become the Star Child. That's the best possible outcome for the galaxy.

It's feasible for one of the lost primarchs like Russ coming back kicking down the doors of imperial palace and rebooting the Emprah. Then we could see the new 40k with lords of war like primarchs Emperor coming back just means 40k is less grim dark it doesn't suddenly mean that all e threats of chaos nids and other aliens will suddenly go away. There will be great upheaval at the start and new hope.

Still Standing
19-11-2014, 12:01
What is pounding in the depths of commoragh?

The guns of the Solar Auxilia. :D

Mack
19-11-2014, 13:15
Unless it's not clear end times are NOT an event and are NOT going away. No matter how much some people might claim otherwise it's not an event or expansion it's a progression of the setting.

I guess I would call it an event that leads to a new storyline. I don't think anyone assumes everything will all be the same after ET is over. This conversation is about a similar "event" that leads to changes in the 40K universe.

Not sure if you were being snarky or what, but... (to quote Aaron Rodgers) relax. :D

Chem-Dog
19-11-2014, 17:00
the outright rebirth of the Emperor ends 40k as we know it.

I know what you mean, but I wonder if it would actually make a difference -
There are very few non Imperial Factions that would be directly affected. However the behemoth that is "the Imperium" would be riven by turmoil. Idealogical schisms would wrack the Imperium which would then result in a civil war perhaps more brutal and comprehensively all encompassing than the Horus Heresy and this time the Emperor has no Astartes Legions and No Primarchs.

A grinding eternal stalemate of warfare, not a huge leap on from where we are now, is it?!

tezdal
20-11-2014, 00:25
Wasn't Sebastian Thor essentially the 40k setting's version of Karl Franz ascendant?

Edit: hmmm, maybe he was more of a Valten? I don't know...

Eh more like WHFBs Magnus the pious?