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Bmaxwell
26-12-2005, 04:16
Which brings up a question I have

Do we have any idea what we can use to model this guys?

I know makeing one or two would be easy to do but what about full on armys what is the base modle gonna be any ideas?

IncubiLord
26-12-2005, 04:28
I still haven't seen a full-body pic, but from the head shown in the 'dex I'd say somebody needs to sculpt the "master" of each model and then those would have to be molded off (in plastic).

Antaeus
26-12-2005, 13:12
Soudns like an interesting unit idea. I'm not sure if we want to make them daemonic, but a unit with higher Toughness and Feel No Pain could be interesting. Don't want to be making them complete close combat maniacs or anything, but certainly a rock-hard, difficult to kill unit could be interesting.

TheSonOfAbbadon
26-12-2005, 16:50
warp

No, Xenarch=Warpless.

Also, I really don't like the idea of them being tiny killer junkyards, I would prefer them as a Xenarch basically gone mad that now has to be kept in special mani. cages and special suits to contain the raw outburst of energy they give.

And I don't like the daemonic stability rules, maybe something like on a 6+ they take a wound with an armour save as normal?

Antaeus
26-12-2005, 16:54
*amusing mental image of Xenarch that explode when killed* :D

Actually, that could be interesting...not so much raw close combat prowess as being very dangerous to attack when they're nearby. Though I'm sure my mental image of them is different from everyone else's. Wish I had a graphics tablet :(

IncubiLord
26-12-2005, 17:14
You could give them something like Nurgle's Rot, where anything within 6" at the end of the shooting phase has a chance of getting hit by a random discharge. This only makes them nasty in CC because the melee draws enemies into the potential "spark zone".
I only suggested the Instability rules to give them a fearless nature and maintain an image of them still "bleeding out" of their cages.
My original suggestion was more like "they're dying yet they fight on" and less like "they're beyond saving but we made them new suits."
Either concept works, but we should settle on one to make the discussion consistant.

Bmaxwell
27-12-2005, 00:02
I like the Idea that there dieing and can not be removed form there suits so that makes them even more desprate and haveing no chance of bein whole again.

TheSonOfAbbadon
27-12-2005, 01:40
So, kind of broken Xenarch? With like an arm broken off, but because their cage is ruptured they can use their energy to have a more powerful effect on physical matter, and can therefore manipulated objects so their arm stays on through their will.

I'm imagining a Xenarch with cracks around his shoulder, a dark colourscheme, glowing white eyes and light emerging from the cracks in his armour [as the energy of his body escaping].

Bmaxwell
27-12-2005, 01:56
Well for this let call "Broken" xenarch the mainfestion cage with in the shell of the xenarch has been ruptured or some how other wised injured so that the Mainfestion cage with in the shell of the xenarch can not be removed.

with the Xenarchs cage broken they only have a limted amount of time to live. Overcome by grief and sadness they can only find peace within battle. With the Grief that has over came them they can use the psyhic powers the dwell with in all xenarch to the fullest effect.

I just got a idea mabye this could be a special rule or a wargear opotion that allows when a xenarch is recduced to 0 wounds they come back and have a few special abilties and modifers to there attrubites.

Just idea though

TheSonOfAbbadon
27-12-2005, 02:16
Oh no, we're going into the realms of We'll Be Back rolls now.

Why not say, after injury, the Xenarch are casualties until work can be done to partially repair the cage, but the Xenarch has already been corrupted and can only be at peace in the heat of battle.

IncubiLord
27-12-2005, 02:36
Better yet, it takes time to make the transition to a more physical state, and so while some may be getting up as "broken ones", it won't be during the game.

TheSonOfAbbadon
27-12-2005, 02:42
Um, what transition to a physical state?

Bmaxwell
27-12-2005, 03:29
When the Xenarch Cage is rupture or damaged to were it can not taken out of the shell of the Xenarch. When this happens the xenarch "soul" starts to leak out into the real world which causes some huge proplems.

and apprantly alot of people want to work on a army called Xenarch this thread wouldn;t be so big if that wasn't the case

IncubiLord
27-12-2005, 04:12
Since the Xenarch need cages to use their suits, I assumed there's a sort of no-going-back manifestation they must do to interact with the physical world directly.

TheSonOfAbbadon
27-12-2005, 04:21
The cages allow them to use their suits... and?

The Xenarch, technically, are already in a physical state, they are sentient beings of pure energy, using the cages they can use their suits, I always thought that they could easily be released from the cages [or why they would want to no one knows] but when the cage is damaged in battle, the Xenarch is stuck inside and its energy filters out.

IncubiLord
27-12-2005, 04:28
But if the energy all filters out you've just got a dead Xenarch.
I thought that the "broken ones" would have to undergo some sort of transformation to survive in their wounded state. Something that makes them coherent enough that they don't finish draining away, but it would probably be like a willful devolution. You wouldn't do it except to survive long enough to protect your people from the ones who killed you.

TheSonOfAbbadon
27-12-2005, 05:30
Transformation? What? Where did you get that idea from, it has never been mentioned in the thread before, I said the Broken ones may undergo some repair so that they don't finish draining away but why and how would they undergo any kind of transformation?!

Also, I wouldn't see it as a devolution, sure they'll think more primitively, probably concentrating on one or two emotions, but they'll be able to use their energy to manipulate the outside world unlike other Xenarch.

Bmaxwell
27-12-2005, 13:48
With out a cage a Xenarch can not fucntion its sort of what contains them and allows them to think.

I don't think the broken ones should be able to live for that long.

sort of like you got 7 days left to live make it count sort of thing.

IncubiLord
27-12-2005, 18:30
That works.
Just throwing out an idea with the devolution thing.
If it doesn't work, I'm OK with it.

Bmaxwell
28-12-2005, 19:28
well i was thinking along the lines of get shot in the head but being able to live for a little bit longer. you would have some metnal redtardation that would happen but you would still be able to do some things

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-12-2005, 19:59
I was thinking that they would be crazy insane want to kill people and/or crazy sad want to kill myself. Plus the ruptured cage meaning they can manipulate the world outside it like a prophet, they can keep their broken bodies together and are more powerful in battle.

Edit: I've been trying to draw a Xenarch, but I can't get the head right, I've tried drawing it in flash on the computer but it's a *********** pile of **** that won't let me select parts of what I've done and move it or draw curves properly!

IncubiLord
28-12-2005, 20:26
I still think it should take time to pull themselves back together. Suddenly being this maimed ghost of your former self would take a bit of getting used to.
No "we'll be back" madness, these would be the casualties from the last fight getting up to make their final stand.
That could work well with the Death Company sort of random numbers.

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-12-2005, 21:52
Well, I guess after their cage is ruptured they'd lose conciousness for a while, then regain conciousness and 'fix' themselves or regain conciousness after being fixed.

But they should still have feel no pain, for minor wounds they might be able to hold themselves together.

I'm going to see if I can draw Xenarch now...

MikexNature
04-01-2006, 22:15
guardians seem like a good basis for model, atleast to me anyway. I mean they have that stone in their chest and kinda have that angular shaped armor going on. so yean guardians lus green stuff might produce ok looking guys

x-esiv-4c
11-01-2006, 21:19
Wow. Sorry I've been out of the loop for a while
Could someone fill me in on what the newest developments / codex version we have is ?

Antaeus
11-01-2006, 22:20
I think my copy is as out of date as yours, old son! :D If anyone's been keeping track of updates for the last few months, the latest edition would be excellent.

IncubiLord
11-01-2006, 23:10
Version 1.6 is the latest, afaik, but I don't have your e-mail addresses.
Sometime while you were gone, I suggested the idea of (the most active member) creating a dummy yahoo account that's always set to "out of office" with an autoreply that has the latest version attached.

I also threw out the random ideas of stealing other aliens machines by sneaking in and attaching cages (which was shot down) and a form of wounded/dying Xenarch that are currently dubbed "broken ones." The basic concept is a ruptured cage that hasn't completely died yet. They're still in the "cool idea with no rules" stage.

Last I knew, bmaxwell was working on turning Quiem and the other named prophet into Special Characters.

Oh, and some dope spammed the thread.

Antaeus
12-01-2006, 10:45
Not a bad idea, if we could get it to work. Can't be me since I'm popping off for a few months on Sunday again (I'll check in occasionally, though, to see how things are going).

I'm still on V1.5, so if there are significant changes in V1.6, 'twould be excellent - the address be firegecko@gmail.com.

IncubiLord
12-01-2006, 17:50
Not sure what changed, as I joined in at 1.6.
Sent it anyways.

Almost forgot:
tSoA did some playtesting and thinks that the 4+ save doesn't really make up for the T2. We talked about it a bit, but no solution was agreed on.

x-esiv-4c
12-01-2006, 21:36
Ok, thanks for the input Incubilord.
We are going to have to figure this one out. I will look over the 1.6 version again ( haven't seen it in a while ) and tweak a few things. If you tweak something please make note of the change at the beginning of the document in different coloured lettering.

Now, a 4+ doesn't work with a T of 2 huh? Not suprising really. What about boosting it to a save of 3+ or perhaps 4+ / 6+ inv?

Just throwing some ideas about.

Antaeus
12-01-2006, 21:45
Cheers, IncubiLord. Doesn't actually look any different from v.1.6, unless I'm missing something.

Anyway, I still can't see what's wrong with a 4+ save for the basic Infantry Cell. They're more resilient than Guardsmen to anything but a S4 Ap4 weapons as far as I can see, and I can't think of many of those. Ergo, they should be of a similar points cost. They have a pretty significantly better weapon (the manoeuverability advantage of Assault 2) and their concealment abilities. Lower Initiative takes them down slightly, but I'd still value them at 7 or 8pts each. Not an easy unit to use, as I see it, but very capable of making an excellent contribution in battle.

x-esiv-4c
13-01-2006, 14:47
Can someone please send me the latest version?

I only have 1.4

omegafaktor@gmail.com

Antaeus
13-01-2006, 15:13
*throws latest edition to x-esiv* I'm still having a few thoughts about wargear ideas. A new Fast Attack unit could be useful too, we don't have that many of them.

x-esiv-4c
13-01-2006, 15:26
Thanks for the send matey.
Yeah. Fast attack could use some changes, thats for sure. Nonetheless it would really help if people would write their changes in red or something.

IncubiLord
13-01-2006, 15:26
How about the broken ones for FA?
Somebody mentioned the idea of them being kinda like the BA Death Company, but that doesn't mean they couldn't fit into a FA slot.

x-esiv-4c
13-01-2006, 15:29
After giving it a quick look, i'm seeing the codex really form up.
I'm going to try and give it a test-play some time in the future. I encourage everyone to do the same and give us a detailed report on the performance.

x-esiv-4c
13-01-2006, 15:30
I see the "broken ones" as a type of expendible assault unit, something like arcoflaggellants (sp)? Thoughts anyone?

IncubiLord
13-01-2006, 15:36
I kinda like the idea that they're generated in the same manner as the BA Death Company. It gives them a "casualties from the last fight" sort of feel.
But yeah, they're totally expendable. After all, they're beyond the point where they could be recovered from the suit and have their injuries mended (energy infusions?).

x-esiv-4c
13-01-2006, 15:39
Right, sounds good.
Someone draft up the profile for them and we'll collectivly decide on what needs to be changed, this way we don't have a million copies of version 1.6 floating about.
I'm a little worried that some of our points costs are a little low, does anyone feel this way too?

Antaeus
13-01-2006, 15:42
Hmm. I'm not sure we want to go too far down the DC road with these guys - I'm not a fan of how the buggers are created, purely from an abuse point of view

Things like Feel No Pain aren't a bad idea though. T3 and Feel No Pain but little or no armour save? I also like the idea of the outburst of raw energy when they're destroyed being dangerous - a S3 hit on the unit that kills one in hand to hand maybe? I'd also think of them as having to charge when possible in the same manner as Berserkers.

Also, names are good.

x-esiv-4c
13-01-2006, 15:52
Ok but the feel-no-pain rule will apply only to the "broken ones" right? Otherwise we have an entire army of 4+ invulerable saves.

Antaeus
13-01-2006, 15:57
Oh, sorry, confusion. The whole thing I said was for the "Broken Ones". I'm still firmly behind T2 for the Infantry Cells and a 4+ save :)

I think Infantry cells are about right points wise - no idea about the characters though. We'll need to clarify what's happening with the Controllers too - are they Independent Characters who just wander about staying near the Stalkers? Bought in a similar manner to Imperial Guard Advisors, maybe, but with the IC rules?

IncubiLord
13-01-2006, 16:03
Just an initial concept...

Twilight Souls - 75pts/ D6 models ( 0-1)
WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv-
Squad size: 1-2 D6 + any members rolled from units
Equipment: Energy Surges (Rending Claws?), may include 1 w/Power Weapon per D6 for +10pts each.
Special rules: Feel no Pain, Final Discharge (when destroyed in CC, all models in BtB take a S3 hit), Beasts, Must charge if possible, furious charge(?).

If you buy them, you would also get to roll the D6 per unit with one of them becoming a member on a 6. No benefits for bringing in a character, and only roll for units of "sentient" xenarch (ones that are controled lack the will-power to become a Twilight Soul).

IncubiLord
13-01-2006, 16:05
Ok but the feel-no-pain rule will apply only to the "broken ones" right? Otherwise we have an entire army of 4+ invulerable saves.
Actually, you have an entire army with NO saves most of the time. Most weapons are S4 or higher. That's why it was rejected when I mentioned it for basic troops.

Antaeus
13-01-2006, 16:16
First off, I quite like the name :)

Second - I'd like to make them pretty expensive, so we can make them fairly powerful shock troops. I like the idea of Xenarch forces being generally smallish groups, which means we need expensive troops.

Third - as stated above, I'm not keen on randomisation. I know it makes sense from their background perspective, but I'm not fond of the way Death Company are generated for Blood Angels. I say just make them bought like normal units. Keeps things simple. This is, however, just my opinion of course.

Overall, I like the look of them. It'd be ncie to make them really scary opponents, make them the kind of unit the enemy will almost always pour fire into as they see them rampaging forwards. Crazy thought -

Terrifying - enemies taking Leadership tests to target a unit other than a unit of Twilight Souls are at -1 leadership. Tests taken to target Twilight Souls instead of another unit are at +1 Leadership.

Might make a nice touch, I thought. We don't want too many little special rules, but 'twas a spur of the moment idea.

IncubiLord
13-01-2006, 16:29
My first inclination in that approach would be a unit of 3-9 at 20-25 points each (not sure where exactly, but they're somewhere in that range). 0-1 Power Weapon per 3 Souls.

Bundle Beasts, Must Charge, and Furious Charge into one special rule (kinda like the Mark of Khorne is a handful of rules) and add the Terrifying Advance rule.

Since I just stole that statline from the specialized troops, it should probably be tweaked for CC. Add +1 to Attacks and maybe Initiative.

x-esiv-4c
17-01-2006, 13:13
Just have to make sure we're not over doing it with the whole "rending" thing. That seems to be the flavor of the edition...

IncubiLord
17-01-2006, 20:18
I think they need more than a basic attack though.
Maybe the same rule as Heavy CC weapons like Choppas(no armor should completely shield you from an energy attack)?

x-esiv-4c
18-01-2006, 14:18
Sounds about right.

Bmaxwell
18-01-2006, 16:09
What about a weapon that just Increase's the save.

Sort of like lets say its a SM instead of haveing a +3 saveing its uped by 2 to a +5 mabye not that much but you get the idea

sulla
18-01-2006, 20:13
I think they need more than a basic attack though.
Maybe the same rule as Heavy CC weapons like Choppas(no armor should completely shield you from an energy attack)?

Heavy ccw are a game mechanic designed to increase a unit's power specifically vs marines. (It also has the unfortunate flaw of making them excellent vs terminators, but that's not the point).

Wouldn't it be better to playtest the unit in question before deciding they need extra power vs marines? Perhaps another solution may be better?

x-esiv-4c
18-01-2006, 21:03
Wouldn't it be better to playtest the unit in question before deciding they need extra power vs marines? Perhaps another solution may be better?

I concur. Can anyone play test these guys anytime soon?

IncubiLord
19-01-2006, 00:31
That's the basic Imperial guardsman's statline.
I don't mean to offend, but do we really need to play-test how they do in CC? (Also, I'm the only person I know in the local area who's shown any interest in this, so play-testing is a bit difficult.)

The three with power weapons in a max. size squad would be like low-Initiative Howling Banshees. Yeah, they ignore armor, but they have trouble wounding. The others hit like a squad of lasgun-toting IG meatshields unless you give them something better for a CC weapon.

On the charge (with furious charge), they should hit about as hard as a SM Assault squad with a Vet Sergeant using Lightning Claws (4 attacks re-rolling misses should be close to the same number of hits as 6 w/out re-rolls).

They have staying power in CC until a dedicated assault unit shows up. When the enemy pulls out a few power weapon attacks, they'll disappear (as they have no save, aren't tough, and don't have multiple wounds).

Actually, when I look at them again, I don't think they could be worth 20-25 points (as-is). Their low initiative means they'll almost always take a beating before they do anything in CC, their low strength makes them unlikely to damage enemy units (especially those with armor), and they're ridiculously vulnerable to power weapons.

I screwed up. Sorry, but they'll need serious revision before they're ready.

crashbang
19-01-2006, 09:52
i'd be perfectly happy to test xenarch,i could just use my nids. but what has changed since xenarch 1.5?

TheSonOfAbbadon
19-01-2006, 12:07
Put up your e-mail, we'll e-mail you version 1.6.

I think that T2 [yes I know we weren't talking about it at the moment, but it wasn't entirely settled] would be ok as long as they are 5pts each [maybe 6, I'll do a bit of playtesting and see].

I think that 'Twilight souls' sounds a bit... weird [not in a good way] in a kind of, wussy way, the way that it makes them sound like faeries. I think 'Broken Souls' or something would make them sound more evil/scary.

And, a thought on the 'It's easier to shoot the scary ones' rule, why not have it so that the enemy is scared by the Souls [and also the Souls have the ability to make no noise and have a distorted image] so that they have to take a leadership test whenever they try to fire at the Souls [basically, the Souls always count as not being the nearest unit, and don't affect shooting other units, so if a Xenarch cell is the 2nd closest unit and the Souls are the closest unit, the enemy can fire at the Xenarch cell without having to take a leadership test] this would represent the enemy not really seeing them and putting what flitting shadows they can see down to the heat/cold/insanity and only fire if their sergeant convinces them to [this would explain why it's a leadership test]. Sound good?

Also, they need to be badass. Like, 20-30 points each. Serious badass.

Souls
WS:4
BS:3
S:5
T:4
I:5
A:2
W:1
Sv:5+
Ld:- [always pass]

Number per squad: 3-10

Weapons: Energy claws [reduces armour saves to 4+, like Khornate Chainaxes or Choppas. They also release a short, sharp burst of energy that counts as a firing weapon: S:3 Ap:5 Assault1 12"].

Options: Up to 3 Souls may upgrade their energy claws to count as power weapons for +5 points [they may still use the short burst of energy shooting power, though]. Up to 3 Souls may count as Broken Shadowwalkers [since the normal Souls are regualr broken Xenarch suits] and therefore have +1 WS and the rending ability for +20pts.

Special rules:

Fleeting shadows: The Souls are fast and shadowy, they bend light away from themselves and make no noise when they move, they are completely silent, the perfect assassins. Souls can move up to 12" in the assault phase and [leadership rule, however we decide to do it]. Also, in nightfight missions, instead of seeing 4D6 inches when trying to spot the Souls, the enemy sees 4D6 divided by 2 inches.

Broken: The Souls are broken shells of their former selves, they have been saved from the brink of death and turned into powerful killing machines, they know no rest, no fears and no pain. Souls have the feel no pain rule and pass all leadership and morale tests. They also must charge an enemy unit when possible. When killed in close combat, a Soul explodes in the final and sudden release of its power. This is represented by placing a blast marker over the top of a Soul when it loses its last wound in close combat and have all models under the marker take a S4 Ap- hit.

I know it seems a bit OTT, but this way we can shave bits off to get a refined version.

x-esiv-4c
19-01-2006, 12:49
Crashbang, please give us a full report of how the battle went. We really need to learn how they function dynamically and not just on paper.

crashbang
19-01-2006, 12:58
crash370@hotmail.com

ill make you that report. maybe get the opponent to write what he thinks

Antaeus
21-01-2006, 14:05
@TSoA: I still see the Infantry Cells as 8pts each, for the reasons gfiven earlier - they are a notably superior product to Imperial Guardsmen, and it's better for us to make them too expensive than too cheap.

On the Souls: Imho we don't want them nearly as powerful as that. The unit would be horrific - 12" charge, lots of attacks, power weapons (for some of them) and Strength and Initiative 5, complete with WS4 is too powerful as I see it.

I'd say no power weapon or Rending options (they're overdone anyway), and WS3 - remember that a Space Marine with decades of hand-to-hand combat training is WS4 - these guys are barely cogent ;) That still makes them a nasty prospect - 3 Attacks on the (12") charge at S4 will rip through light infantry with ease. Initiative 4 should be plenty too imho, especially as Xenarch have generally low to average Initiative (due to their heavy armour - I know these guys have less, which seems good enough reason, coupled with the frenzied nature of their assaults for I4. I'd also say the Night Fight restrictions are a bit too nasty - Night Fight alone is restricting enough.

I'm not having a go at you here, just to clarify - as you said, it's easily mucked about with. Some cool ideas, I just don't want them to be a hellishly powerful unit :)

IncubiLord
21-01-2006, 22:11
Trying to incorporate current ideas, we have something like this:

(0-1) Twilight Souls - 22-ish pts/model
WS3 BS- S4 T3 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv-
Squad size: 3-10
Equipment: Energy Surges (Heavy (Choppa) rule).
Special rules: Feel no Pain, Fearless, Final Discharge (when destroyed in CC, all models in blast template take a S4 hit), Beasts, Must charge if possible, Terrifying advance (bonus to pick as a target, penalty to ignore)

As for the name, I'm not very specific. I chose "twilight souls" because "twilight" is a word sometimes associated with the end and "souls" makes them sound like undead (to me). Feel free to offer something less hokey. ;)

crashbang
22-01-2006, 13:02
hello guys! ive read the xenarch 1.6, and i like the list alot, especially the troops section. so i decided to find every chink in it, no offence intended.

*prothetic zero

plasma blade
charge pistol
targetting array 137pts

this combo allows it 5 attacks hitting and wounding on 2s ignoring saves. was this intended?

*the stalkers are labelled as 'symbiotic'. does this do anything, and if so what? what happens if their controller dies?

*which character has access to the psychic powers? raise prices accordingly id suggest.

*graviton singularity cannon. is it a type of tank or artillery. i'd suggest a price drop as the most other ordanance wielding stuff is tougher and costs less

*death ark: assault 2 AND blast or assault 2 OR blast?

*axiom cells, why are they more expensive then infantry? i dont see the reasoning for this

*in assault this army is screwed, a bit like tau. only the prophetic zero has serious combat ability, and the shadow walkers are half decent but will get walked over by most assaulting units



okay now onto things i like

*the army list has a very unique playing style, not like any other list ive seen. its infantry move around the enemy destroying light units, and pinning them, while any units that gets close is counter attacked by death arks and disruptor rifles

*the army is very balanced


i playtested the xenarch against ultwe eldar at 1500pts

my list

prothetic zero
same wargear as above

prothetic deep
energy staff
charge pistol

6 shadow walkers

Cell group
8 infantry, impulse rifle
8 infantry, impulse rifle
6 shadow reavers, rip gun

Cell group
8 infantry, impulse rifle
8 infantry, impulse rifle
6 shadow reavers, rip gun

Cell group
8 infantry, impulse rifle
7 infantry, impulse rifle
6 shadow reavers, rip gun

4 Needle Stalkers
Controller, occular array

Graviton singularity cannon




His army

Seer council
3 farseers
+6 warlocks
various pschic powers

Avatar

7 scorps, exarch with scorpion claw
7 scorps, exarch with scorpion claw

10 guardians, starcannon
10 guardians, starcannon
10 guardians, starcannon
3 rangers
3 rangers

vyper

wraithlord
d-cannon


in the end, it was a solid win to the eldar. the match proved that the army currently dosnt stand up well to assault. however it was marred by cheating at some points on the opponents part. it didnt matter much though, and it showed that they really can chew up light troops, but have trouble with tougher troops, especially 2+ saves which there are only three weapons against. i may be able to test it in a week or two from now, till then im signing out

Bmaxwell
22-01-2006, 16:47
this is the frist time any one has play tested it so thanks alot for the feed back.

a friend is comeing over so i'll see if we can playtest the whole army or at least the new unit.

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-01-2006, 12:03
this is the frist time any one has play tested it so thanks alot for the feed back.

I playtested some a while ago, then stopped because I realised that the troops are overpriced.

Also, some answers for crashbang:

I believe the Graviton singularity cannon is artillery.
Symbiotic does nothing.
The Axiom cells are ridiculously overpriced.
Death arc is Assault2 AND blast, I changed that,I believe it was Assault3 and blast before.
I know the army is screwed in CC, that's why I was going to upgrade shadowwalkers to strength 4 toughness 4 and give them the option for some close combat abilities too.

x-esiv-4c
23-01-2006, 13:59
Thanks for the input Crashbang. I will look over your suggestions and make the corrections that are necessary.

crashbang
23-01-2006, 16:06
[QUOTE=TheSonOfAbbadon]
Death arc is Assault2 AND blast, I changed that,I believe it was Assault3 and blast before.


are you sure thats balanced? that amount of firepower from one unit is hideously powerful (12 s5 ap3 blast shots from one unit :eek: )

x-esiv-4c
23-01-2006, 17:37
Version 1.7 is out, some minor changes. Post your email addy and I will get it to you.

boogle
23-01-2006, 17:46
hi my email address is: dorianblack2003@yahoo.co.uk

IncubiLord
23-01-2006, 17:51
scm_spam@yahoo.com

Any chance of setting up the auto-reply account?

Bmaxwell
23-01-2006, 19:37
Chaoslordofwar@yahoo.com

yea something like that would be nice for us since people want it so much

x-esiv-4c
25-01-2006, 14:52
Thoughts on the new version?

TheSonOfAbbadon
25-01-2006, 15:11
Death arc is Assault2 AND blast, I changed that,I believe it was Assault3 and blast before.


are you sure thats balanced? that amount of firepower from one unit is hideously powerful (12 s5 ap3 blast shots from one unit :eek: )

What squad can take 6 Death arcs, and I thought it was S3 AP5?

jamie@little-cars.co.uk

crashbang
25-01-2006, 16:15
What squad can take 6 Death arcs, and I thought it was S3 AP5?

jamie@little-cars.co.uk


i refer you to shadow walkers, who all have death arks.

however, we were both wrong bout the weapon it is S3 AP3.

still think its overpowered tho, i think it should be assault 2 or blast

x-esiv-4c
25-01-2006, 16:18
1.7 shows it being assault 2 I believe.

TheSonOfAbbadon
25-01-2006, 19:40
So does 1.6, it is only 12" range, but then again, it is AP3, so it is overpriced.

jamie@little-cars.co.uk [hint hint]

crashbang
25-01-2006, 20:39
i think, just have a hunch, the sonofabbadon might want a xenarch 1.6 copy. just a hunch mind u. i dont have it in this comp so i cant.

on the shadow-walkers, i might get the chance to test em this weekend, ill tell ya how it goes.

x-esiv-4c
25-01-2006, 20:46
Yeah, please give them a go and report back in, t'would be dead useful.

IncubiLord
25-01-2006, 20:51
I sent tSoA 1.7 already.

Sorry, didn't think to post it.

Flame of Udun
26-01-2006, 01:26
Hi, I've just sat and read the whole thread so far and this sounds really awesome! Could someone send me a copy of the latest version of the codex:
email:- utopia555@btinternet.com
Many Thanks:)

TheSonOfAbbadon
26-01-2006, 11:59
Well, I haven't had a proper chance to look through the entire of version 1.7, but the changes to the elites look quite good.

We still need to sort out the souls, first off, their full name, Broken Souls, Lost Souls, Twilight Souls, Darkened Souls etc. which one should we use. Also, the leadership rule [makes the enemy able to ignore the Souls, or want to shoot away from them]. The stats, and the weapons [I think we're agreed on no guns for them].

I'll send FoU a copy of 1.7 when I get home.

x-esiv-4c
26-01-2006, 12:52
I vote for Broken souls, works for me.

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-01-2006, 12:34
Ok, I've just revised 1.7, so if anyone wants 1.8 post your e-mail [check your e-mails first, I'll look through the thread for your e-mails first].

Flame of Udun
28-01-2006, 17:32
cool, just got 1.8. Thanks for that! On a point of fluff, I was just thinking about this whole incorporeal business. As far as I could see in the 'dex no one has covered how the Xenarch came to be in their present form. If nobody has any objections I'd like to give it a shot. Before I begin does anybody have anythoughts on what the Xenarch perhaps used to look like if they had previously had a body?

Flame of Udun
28-01-2006, 17:41
Just to clarify I'm thinking of working along the lines that perhaps the Xenarch were once corporeal beings but reached a point in their evolution where by they grew beyond their physical bodies, during a time for them known as the Great Awakening, that way there is a transitory period where Xenarch exist in both physical and incorporeal forms. the Corporeal xenarch being the once who deveolped the Manifestation cages to allow their fellows to be ably to interact with the physical world more directly. It would also be able to influence the appearance of their technology and co on. It just seems to me that an alien that has always existed in an incorporeal state would not perhaps need to create machines in order to interact with the physical world.

edit: it has also occured to me that this whole interacting with technology via manifestation cages does bear some resemblance to the principle of the Eldar using spirit stones to capture their souls and implanting them in to Wraithlords and wraithguard. Just a thought.

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-01-2006, 17:59
I like that idea of once being corporeal, I expect they look alot like their suits do... oh wait...

I think of it more like a little guy in a pod flipping switches instead of a spirit being brought back to life in a machine.

IncubiLord
28-01-2006, 18:45
That was somewhere back in the beginning of the thread.

Only it was more like the physical body is the larval state of the Xenarch.

I liked it. I had this sort of religion-that-delivers image in my head. The physical beings worshipped and learned from the beings of energy so that they too could grow beyond the flesh.

It was ditched for a reason that is not yet clear to me...

Flame of Udun
28-01-2006, 19:47
I like that idea of once being corporeal, I expect they look alot like their suits do... oh wait...

That's kind of the idea I had, the suits reflecting their original form (like the Walkers in War of the Worlds looked like the aliens that piloted them).

I see their present state being one of pure conciousness but not like a soul which is why they are incorruptible by Chaos. Kind of like a living plasma, but without the manifestation cages they can't manipulate matter, the manifestation cages allowing the Xenarch to control the machine just with thought alone but without the cage they wouldn't be able to do it. Perhaps the manifestation cages have some psycho active component similar to wraithbone but limited in supply and not as malleable as wraithbone which is why it is only used for manifest cages and not for their technology as a whole like the eldar.

crashbang
29-01-2006, 09:58
okay, thoughts on newest edition

*still nothing saying which character gets what psychic powers and for how much

*does anything happen if the stalkers controller dies

*you changed the singularity cannon to indirect fire. YAY! its worth its cost now!

*i might consider taking axiom cells now

*where are the twilight souls? or you could call them 'mortailisie' just random name i thought up but still.

thats all for now. i might get a battle later on today

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-01-2006, 11:26
okay, thoughts on newest edition

*still nothing saying which character gets what psychic powers and for how much

I think they can each take it for the allocated points cost, or maybe the psychic prophet [I forget which one, the one with the shadow 6" rule, thingy] can take them, and the others have to pay 10pts to become psychic.

Although they're actually not psychic, but the psychic rules represent their ability to manipulate energy and the dangers of doing that.


*does anything happen if the stalkers controller dies

Good point... maybe the stalkers should be BS:2 after the controller dies...


*you changed the singularity cannon to indirect fire. YAY! its worth its cost now!

That was in the 2nd newest edition.


*i might consider taking axiom cells now

Good.


*where are the twilight souls? or you could call them 'mortailisie' just random name i thought up but still.

thats all for now. i might get a battle later on today


Mortailisie sounds weird and really doesn't capture what they are, I think we're sticking with Twilight or Broken Souls. And we haven't sorted out their rules yet.

Also, we need to finalise the name, x-esiv-4c and I both voted for Broken souls, anyone else want to vote?

Also:

Souls
WS: 3
BS: 2
S: 4
T: 3
I: 5
A: 2[3]
W: 1
Sv: 5+
Ld: - [always pass]

Size: 3-8

Weapons: Surge claws [4+ save if higher, and +1 attack]

Special Rules:
Concealment.
Broken: Souls are Xenarch who, although injured in the last fight, are still alive enough to continue fighting, unfortunately their conciousness is slowly spilling out from their cages driving them closer to death and insanity. Although this allows them to use their energy power more directly and powerfully on the physical world, allowing them to keep themselves together, literally. Souls have the Feel No Pain rules and are Fearless.

Fleeting Shadows: Souls are thin and fast, with the amazing ability to move far faster than their brethern. Through forests and through rocky crags they can move at great speed without ever being seen, until it's too late. Broken souls move up to 9" in the movement phase and have a 9" assault move. They also ignore tough terrain.

That's about 25pts each methinks.

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-01-2006, 16:56
http://photobucket.com/albums/e51/TSoA/?sc=1

There's a couple of pictures, one is some ideas for helmets and armour, the other is my favourite pieces of the ones I drew put together [in a very ameteur way].

I think this armour would be best for a Prophetic Zero because it's too big and chunky to be much else [apart from Shadowwalkers, and they have 4 arms, and I have a different idea of what they look like], and it really doesn't look like an Eden controller, or a powerful Deep, so I think it's best a as a Zero.

What do you think?

P.S: The body armour is meant to go with the third helmet, because the others look rubbish.

x-esiv-4c
30-01-2006, 13:27
Ok, 1.8 looks good.

A few points:

Flame of Udun, I like where you are going with the whole transcendance thing. Work up some fluff on that and throw it up here.

As for their appearance: I envisioned their armour to be very angular and facetted, almost malicious even. Long fore-arms, somewhat slender. As for the Prophets? Perhaps Eden has capacitor banks strapped to his bank in order to provide energy for the controllers.

Another thought: When a controller dies, perhaps the WS and BS of the stalkers drops to 2? Anyone?

TheSonOfAbbadon
30-01-2006, 15:21
Oh, I imagined the armour more curvy and graceful.

I think perhaps only the BS should drop to 2, because BS is for long range shooting where as WS can stay the same because the Stalkers' AI is good enough for them to hit enemies when they're up close.

x-esiv-4c
30-01-2006, 15:49
Ok, agreed. If the Controller is killed, then the BS is dropped to 2. As for armour, perhaps the prophets look sleeker and curved?

TheSonOfAbbadon
30-01-2006, 16:55
So, prophets=sleek and curvy, most other people=sharp edges and angular.

Ok.

x-esiv-4c
30-01-2006, 18:30
Thats the shape of it ( no pun indended )

Flame of Udun
30-01-2006, 19:31
Ok I'll get started on the fluffing. Can I just clarify, how many limbs, eyes etc would the physical Xenarch have had? personally I like the I dea of 3 legs and 4 arms, one head with 3 eyes. Just my thoughts but since GW have never produced an atypical humanoid race (even the 'nids have a very humanoid physique) perhaps something different would be interesting, if anyone likes the idea I can certainly work up some concept sketches to boot.

x-esiv-4c
30-01-2006, 20:18
Well, lets try and work up some sketches for both sets of physiques. However I feel that 4 arms atop 3 legs is pushing the number of limbs a bit much. Now I agree in that GW is hesitant to draw away from the bipeds however, we can go that route too, just exaggurate certain features, perhaps long appendages, shrunken, almost emaciated (sp) abdomen, expansive chest topped with an asymetic head.

IncubiLord
30-01-2006, 21:31
I like the I dea of 3 legs and 4 arms, one head with 3 eyes. Just my thoughts but since GW have never produced an atypical humanoid race
Please, not 3-legged. I just can't buy into an odd number of limbs for locomotion.

Bmaxwell has also attempted to describe the Xenarch in posts 51 & 72 of this thread. 51 is sort of the "religion that delivers" idea (See, I did read some of the thread's fluff!) while 72 describes them as humanoid reptiles with fine scales, and raptor-like feet. There's a few other details, but I don't think anything has really been set in stone.

I personally would prefer to see them as a species that exolved from a 6-limbed tree cat. Furry would be something different, and I could go with 3 eyes (spaced evenly around the head for a full field of vision).

Also, I think if the Xenarch were physically smaller than other races (read small like ratlings and gretchin) that would make it easy to explain why they managed to survive on their world without being an egual to current armies in CC.

Random thought: Tree cats and pack behavior...

TheSonOfAbbadon
31-01-2006, 15:33
I, personally, would like to stick with humanoid lizards with fine scales and raptor-like feet. But, of course, with long arms, small torsos and generally thin and tallish.

Three eyes would be weird, because it would, evoluntion-wise, show them as prey, not a predator, also, they'd have no depth perception.

A good reason why alot of races are humanoid is because standing on two legs and having two arms is a winning combination, why should the Xenarch be any different?

Flame of Udun
31-01-2006, 17:41
Ok, I'll rough out some sketches of the humanoid lizard type thing along with the fluff (might take a couple of days as I am a bit busy at the moment). I was thinking 3 eyes mostly facing forward to give a very wide field of depth perception.

TheSonOfAbbadon
31-01-2006, 18:13
Why don't we make the third one be in the middle and be very sensitive to movement, that way if something moved within their wide feild of vision, they could use their main two eyes to identify what it is. That's what the spider's two main eyes are for.

Flame of Udun
31-01-2006, 18:24
yeah, ok, I like the sound of that :)

TheSonOfAbbadon
31-01-2006, 18:28
Whee! Third eye!

*cough* Yeah, anyway, Twilight souls, or Broken souls, which one do you vote for?

Flame of Udun
31-01-2006, 18:40
I like Twilight Souls best. Sounds kinda shadowy :)

IncubiLord
31-01-2006, 19:04
Doesn't that make it an even split between Twilight and Broken?
BwaHaHaHa... My name for the concept is still alive!

Sorry.

Humanoid lizard-people is fine, I'll find a different home for the tree-cats. I was just thinking that if we were using six-limbed walkers it might be logical to have a six-limbed race. No big.

TheSonOfAbbadon
31-01-2006, 20:49
IncubiLord? I will never be able to read one of your posts again without sniggering and muttering 'six-legged tree cats'.

Also, how does Twilight sound shadowy? You know what the opposite of shadow is? Light. TwiLIGHT is just dim light, and sounds very very pixie-like.

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 02:17
IncubiLord? I will never be able to read one of your posts again without sniggering and muttering 'six-legged tree cats'.
I'm tempted to sig that.

If I strike you as slightly unhinged, so much the better! :evilgrin:

x-esiv-4c
01-02-2006, 13:14
I, personally, would like to stick with humanoid lizards with fine scales and raptor-like feet. But, of course, with long arms, small torsos and generally thin and tallish.

Three eyes would be weird, because it would, evoluntion-wise, show them as prey, not a predator, also, they'd have no depth perception.

A good reason why alot of races are humanoid is because standing on two legs and having two arms is a winning combination, why should the Xenarch be any different?


Agreed. I'm pretty sure we are all in agreement on their physical appearance. Now, are we still in debate over the twilight souls / broken souls issue? Personally twilight souls sounds like some kind of geriatric support group to me :)

TheSonOfAbbadon
01-02-2006, 13:27
Heh heh, geriatric... I love that word.

So, two for Broken, two for Twilight, anyone else want to vote?

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 20:18
I think "broken souls" sounds more like the morally corrupt or the psychologically beaten. The Haemonculi get rid of the broken souls because they're no longer entertaining.

It's all a matter of what connotations you have attached to the words. "Soul" is either the bit of you that isn't flesh (he has no soul) or a term for people (he's an unfortunate soul). For me "broken" describes either the functionality of a machine (the pop machine is broken) or a defeated mental condition (you break somebody during brutal interrogation).

Perhaps a completely new name is in order?
I'm starting to think about "bleeding souls"...

x-esiv-4c
01-02-2006, 20:23
How about "Revenant" ?

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 20:32
Sounds as good as anything else we've tossed around.

x-esiv-4c
01-02-2006, 20:42
Ok, Well...I'm shooting for Revenants.

TheSonOfAbbadon
01-02-2006, 20:49
I think "broken souls" sounds more like the morally corrupt or the psychologically beaten.

You mean they're not?

Revenant sounds really like a kind of robot, like sentinel or something. Also, it refers to a ghost or a zombie, which is totally unlike the Souls, as zombies slow moving and are in vast numbers, whereas Souls are very fast and found in small elite groups.

Oh, and Bleeding Souls sounds very very emo, and they have no blood, so it wouldn't make sense.

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 20:55
They're "bleeding out", if you will.
Just because their essence isn't physical doesn't mean that they don't bleed. In fact, that's one of the big things about the cages is that they DO bleed.

It does kind of remind me of "bleeding hearts" though...

x-esiv-4c
01-02-2006, 21:00
Ahhh good point over the revenants.

I'm just not a fan of twilight souls...just sounds like a bunch of old people milling about.

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 21:21
It was just a BS filler-name in the first place. I don't mind it changing, I just haven't seen one that really fits yet.

Antaeus
01-02-2006, 21:22
I'm not sure which to go for - it's hard to think of a name that isn't either daft-sounding or alliterative. I thought of "Sundered Souls", but the alliteration kinda ruins the effect.

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 21:28
Maybe the word Souls needs dropped.
Yeah, we're talking beings whose essence has been wounded, but that doesn't need to be their name.

They could be the shattered legion.

TheSonOfAbbadon
01-02-2006, 21:39
...

Why does the name 'Shatterer' sound good for them now?

It sounds kinda like 'chatter' which, I imagine, is usually the noise something evil in the darkness makes, which would fit these guys perfectly.

How about something like 'The Shattered Ones'?

Flame of Udun
01-02-2006, 21:56
Hmm, that sounds much better IMO. :)

IncubiLord
01-02-2006, 22:58
And just for tSoA's sake, the full name of the shattered ones is unofficially "the shattered, six-limbed tree-cat legion." :evilgrin:

TheSonOfAbbadon
02-02-2006, 12:00
They can't be a legion, they've haven't got enough of them, and they die after some time. Maybe they're kept in a kind of stasis which prevents their energy from escaping between battles, like Dreadnoughts.

Maybe we should just call them 'The Shattered' *spooky music*.

x-esiv-4c
02-02-2006, 12:46
Works for me.
We really need to narrow this down.

TheSonOfAbbadon
02-02-2006, 13:18
The name? I think we can just agree on 'The Shattered'.

Also, we need to finalise the stats. None of you replied to my suggestion of the following rules:

WS: 3
BS: 2
S: 4
T: 3
I: 5
A: 2[3]
W: 1
Sv: 5+
Ld: - [always pass]

Size: 3-8

Weapons: Surge claws [4+ save if higher, and +1 attack]

Special Rules:
Concealment.
Broken: Souls are Xenarch who, although injured in the last fight, are still alive enough to continue fighting, unfortunately their conciousness is slowly spilling out from their cages driving them closer to death and insanity. Although this allows them to use their energy power more directly and powerfully on the physical world, allowing them to keep themselves together, literally. Souls have the Feel No Pain rules and are Fearless.

Fleeting Shadows: Souls are thin and fast, with the amazing ability to move far faster than their brethern. Through forests and through rocky crags they can move at great speed without ever being seen, until it's too late. Broken souls move up to 9" in the movement phase and have a 9" assault move. They also ignore tough terrain.

Also, we need an explanation why controllers, Prophets and Shadowwalkers never go Shattered, maybe they have so much power that if any is being released then the Xenarch will instantly die? Prophets have alot of power as do Controllers, and Shadowwalkers could be like Controllers/Prophets in training, so they have more power, too.

IncubiLord
02-02-2006, 17:37
Nah, they're just powerful enough that they can remain coherent after their cage gets damaged.

Yeah, you trashed the suit, but there's still a little ball of power waiting to heal enough to get in another suit.

TheSonOfAbbadon
02-02-2006, 19:49
Oh, because I was thinking up rules for a special unique 'Shattered' prophet character. Which is impossible under your thinking, which is a shame because Bakh was an awesome character idea.

IncubiLord
02-02-2006, 20:24
There's exceptions to every rule, tSoA.

You could easily come up with a plot on how a prophet (or whichever) got his suit mangled and then the enemy army won the battle.
The enemy started messing with him, trying to finish him off, and were actually harming him (maybe siphoning the energy out of his form?), so he made the transition (are we using the idea that Xenarch have to devolve to the shattered state?) and ripped them to bits before returning to Xenarch society. Of course, the Xenarch see him as both a holy warrior and a lost soul at the same time, but they wouldn't kill him if he's still aware and not behaving agressively towards his own kind. He'd be a cool concept for a Xenarch that interacts with the tadpole physical beings.
Man, I just BSed that entire background as fast as I can type.



Besides, that's just my take on it.

TheSonOfAbbadon
02-02-2006, 20:34
Hmm, what if the AdMech captured a prophet and started trying to work out how the suit and manifestation cage worked, 'Shattering' him in the process, the Xenarch, seeing as he's Shattered, meaning he is slightly detatched from reality and crazy to an extent, and he can manipulate the world outside his cage more directly than a non-shattered Xenarch, and a prophet, meaning he has alot more energy than other Xenarch, would mean that the shattering would affect him in a huge way in comparison to a normal Xenarch, who has less power.

Also, I'm thinking of drawing up a suit of prophet armour again, but with more spikes and sharp edges [but keeping the basic design] and then drawing Bakh the Shattered with even more spikes and sharp edges and, of course, wielding the whip of a thousand screams [a weapon made of pure energy] along with the staff of eternal tearing [beafed up energy staff].

x-esiv-4c
02-02-2006, 20:59
Beef, I like the stat-line...Looks good. Add it in and call it version 1.9

IncubiLord
02-02-2006, 21:39
I might go a bit further with the idea of what being shattered means.

In my mind, a being of energy would perceive reality differently than a physical being.

Shattered ones have "dropped into" the material world, and would thusly no longer be able to function on the same level as normals.

Side question: if Bakh is a shattered one, and therefore bleeding out, what's he doing to replenish himself. Does he rest inside a cold fusion power generator when he's not fighting?

Bmaxwell
02-02-2006, 22:18
well if we want to give Bakh a sort of nerfious or evil side. he cold "eat" the shattered. but the xenarch view this as the shattered being given a second chance by joing Bakh in soul and helping him to vanquish Xenarch foes. since i doubt that Bakh could be used for anything else.

acutally now that im thinking about it Bakh might have been a prophet but now is sort of viewed as a Divine beast. known to be the needed but at the same time feared.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 12:01
Hmm, I was thinking that Bakh would have enough power to not lose any of his power, or that Prophets were actually generators of power, so then Bakh would have an inexhaustable supply of power, but I like the 'eating other Shattered' thing better.

Hows about he 'lends' a bit of his energy to Shattered and takes them as a retinue [the energy lent to them gives them rending] and when they die, Bakh absorbs his power and the power of the Shattered as well.

Hey, I just noticed, only the Prophetic Zero can take a retinue, the Eden [I think it's the Eden] can control stalkers but the other Prophet [I forget the name, the psychic one] I think should be able to take a retinue of Shadow Scions.

Ok, well I'll work out rules for Bakh and make revision 1.9.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 13:36
Ok, I've made Xenarch revision 1.9.1 and revision 1.9.2.

Revision 1.9.1 is the same as 1.8 but has Shattered, revision 1.9.2 has had a good going over, had everything 'standardised' [so everthing goes in the same order, Squad size, then Equipment, then Options, then Special rules, or whatever] and has been reworded a bit to make more sense, also the prophets have had stats, points and wargear reworked, so now the Deep has an Absorption field as standard, the Zero is now 70pts, and the Deep can take a retinue of 2-6 Scion Shades. The Stalkers have been reworked a bit, so Needle Stalkers have Surge claws [like Shattered] and the Scythe Stalkers don't have short range or close combat weapons any more and are just big walker/tanks with rip lasers and storm arcs [and arc rifles if you want them]. Also, the Graviton Singularity Cannon is now a tank called the Gravition which is armed with a GSC and can take sponston mounted rip lasers and storm arcs [just so the wording is easier].

I'll send everyone [well, everyone whose e-mails I can find] a copy of both, and you can see which one you prefer.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 13:59
Ok good stuff there TsoA. The 1.9.2 version I have doesn't have a stat-line for the Shattered in it however.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 14:04
Are you sure? They should be in Fast Attack under the Needle stalkers.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 14:06
Ah ...yep my bad, got them there.
Ok, so....Now that the list looks pretty much finished, I think that play-testing should be a whole world easier...

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 15:22
Ok, I'm thinking of writing a story showing how Bakh went from a normal Prophet to a Shattered, I was wondering how Xenarch talked to each other, is it short-range telepathy? Or do they actually talk? Also, the name system, humans have first names, middle names and the last family name, the Tau have homeworld, personal names, rank etc. How should Xenarch names work? I assume the names 'Ivide', 'Quiem' and 'Bakh' mean nothing in the Xenarch language, but they must have more than one name, maybe two names that surround their 'main' name like Orti Bakh Kah'n or something, maybe a family name [ORTI] then their main name [BAKH] and then their rank [KAH=prophet 'N=zero]. Does that sound decent to you?

Also, I was thinking the army list needs some sort of scout unit that's really cheap [like 4pts per model, with T:2 and armour save 5+ and really bad stats] but have a decent amount of abilities like concealment, ignore tough terrain, move 9" per turn and assault 9" and the ability to take quite a few impulse rifles. That way they may come out cheaper than Infantry, but alot more specialise [used for taking out heavy units from range, but really bad at assault, and no anti-tank weapons].

I mainly think they need this because in the story I need some sort of scout unit, and I don't see Infantry doing it.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 17:14
Names:
As beings of energy, their language could include some odd stuff like musical tone and color. A simple name like Quiem could actually be Quiem and sound like a trombone being played on that descending slide. I'd keep the names incredible simplistic, and insist that the human language simply cannot convey the actual connotation of the name.

GSC:
Why is there such a long description for the GSC's malfunction rule? "If a 1 is rolled to hit, immediately roll on the “penetrating hit” table. If a “Weapon destroyed” or higher is rolled, consider the cannon destroyed.". All that text for "if you roll a 1 to hit, roll another D6: the weapon will be destroyed on a 4+"

Are we revising the fluff for the addition of physical young?

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 17:50
We have a problem, people!

I just bought my copy of "Xenology" today and alhought the Xenarch aren't featured in it as one of the autopsies a pieice of their technology does feature. The description is as follows:
"a) Xenarch Conduction Spine. Imperial records suggest Xenarch Empire to galactic North - isolationist, warp-worshipping, rumoured to generate biological electrical/plasma. (Inquisitor) Ralei's note reads: FOCUS/DISCHARGE OF BIO-CURRENT. Spec: a weapon to focus naturally produced energy into a discharged beadm? Communicative tool? Artefact is unknown alloy with complex components. Attached organic structure (dessicated) suggests ocular organ (human eye analagous). Conclusion: Whatever it's intended effect, implement appears to focus and direct energy directly from Xenarch biology"

[EDIT] I've removed the pic. The item in question resembles a cross between the Culexus assassin helmet and the Xmen's Cerebro helmet thingy (with a dessicated eye stck on it!! Bleargh!!:p )[/EDIT}

Hmmm. What do you guys make of that? BTW also in the book is a race known to the Imperium as the Umbra who seem to fit some of our Xenarch attributes (can manipulate shadows and make them solid).

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 18:08
Names:
Music and colour, like the Hoobs? I think we should just stick to having an actual language, since they did actually have a language before they were beings of energy.

GSC: That's how that rule has always been described in the codex, you can change it if you want.

I think there should be some way for Xenarch to reproduce, maybe, since they're beings of energy, they could collect vast amounts of energy from a sun or from the sea, and then gather some prophets together, and the prophets will give the being sentience [and will 'insert' a decent understanding of the world, the Xenarch, and pretty much everything to save them from having beings of pure energy going 'goo goo gah gah' and having to have Xenarch nurseries].

EDIT: I was reading something else, I didn't see Udun's post. Um, perhaps it's part of a Controller's occular array? Or maybe it's an ancient piece of Xenarch tech, and it's now obselete? The section doesn't say anything about their appearence, just that they're rumoured to generate bio-current [they actually are bio-current]?

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 18:11
Ok ok, this isn't too to bad. Looks like we are on the right track. However the "organic" componant is somewhat worrying.
Hmmmm.....

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 18:15
Maybe a Xenarch experiment into bio-tech? Trying to artificially create a body for Xenarch to possess in the way they possess manifestation cages?

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 18:16
Sorry, I didn't want to pee on anybody's chips with that but i figured you guys better know:confused:

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 18:23
No, it's ok, you did the right thing, and there are a number of ways we can work around it.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 18:30
Well, we could easily work it into the concept that Xenarch have physical young.

That is obviously a weapon used by one of the young that has not yet reached transcendence. (I forsee the birth of xenarch youth units.)

How about the Xenarch have to become the next generation?
Stealing this idea from a bad anime, but essentially 2 of the Xenarch would choose to end their lives by fusing. This fusion would result in the creation of something like a clutch of eggs, which would hatch into the physical young.

The young would have a lot of inherited memories, and between them they would have all the energy that was contained in the adults that fused. In their physical form, the Xenarch must grow and therefore accumulate enough energy to become a full-fledged being of energy.

EDIT: Also, posting that pic may be a bad idea. I'd suggest removing it and adding a short description, so as not to annoy GW (if they're looking).

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 18:48
When you say 'physical young' I thought you meant, well, physical, not FLESHY, with ORGANS and BONES, because, well, that's practically impossible. They USED to be fleshy, they're now pure energy. I believe that they should reperoduce by collecting energy and then phophets giving the energy sentience.

The weapon could easily be a Xenarch bio-tech experiment, we could change the background so that Ivide was expelled for bio-experiments, and that's why his stalkers are so powerful, because they have intergrated bio-tech so that their AI is far more powerful than that of other races and they actually have a soul to an extent.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 18:50
I like the transcendance idea, going from physical to etheral state. Perhaps the Xenarch were experimenting on using bio-energy as a weapon and thusly needed to create a bio-host form?

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 18:52
I HATE the transcendance idea, and I would prefer to not go GW and screw the background as much as possible and just claim it was Xenarch experiments in to bio-tech and leave it at that.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 18:54
Ok then. We will leave it with Xenarch bio-tech experimentation. Now, the question is why would they experiment with bio-tech if their current power source / weapons are much more effective?

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 19:00
OK I've removed the pic just in case. I wonder if perhaps the energy being is maybe going too far in the wrong direction. The fluff does state they are warp worshipping but I don't think that necessarily means they have to be chaos aligned, perhaps they are a fleshy race that aspires to become one with the warp therefor only the higher ups in Xenarch society transcend the physical bonds of flesh to become warp based entities. I mean the Eldar and the Imperium can both manipulate warp space perhaps the Xenarch have really refined the process. Or perhaps in a subversive unknowing way they are all pawns of Tzeentch (well aren't they all really or so it would have you believe!) like the Ad Mech all really worship a C'tan. They could be masters of energy manipulation using their own bio electricity fused with somekind to advanced warp manipulation tech. I dunno just throwing some ideas out for ya :)

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 19:04
Sorry just read posts 647 & 648. Personnaly I like the transcendance idea but to play with TSoA's thoughts perhaps they experiment with bio tech in order to regain their physicality, perhaps because of some unknown disaster they were all rendered incorporeal (like what happened to Johan in the BPRD comics).

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 19:06
Hey, don't just throw out an idea because one person doesn't like it!

What's wrong with transcendence?

And yes, screw the Xenology book. Only a foolish human would be unable to tell the difference between worshipping a being of energy and worshipping the Warp.

EDIT: Humoring the idea that we're tossing out transcendence - Maybe the Xenarch sometimes miss their physical pleasures? Play with bio-tech to vacation in mortality.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 19:15
Yes, please forget the whole warp/energy argument, its one and the same.

As for IncubiLords suggestion about bio-tech usage. Perhaps something requires them to enter a physical state?

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:15
By that you mean that they sometimes use bio-suits instead of metal ones? Because I was suggesting that they tried doing that and failed. Maybe we could do it so they failed and created some sort of Xenarch [pre-transcendance] beast that killed a load of Xenarch, and so they outlawed bio-tech, and then Ivide got into it, and then he got banished.

Since Ivide went out and looked around the galaxy alot while the rest of the xenarch stayed at home, he could have easily lost a bit of bio-tech in a battle that was then recovered by the Imperium.

EDIT: Also I think we decided that the Xenarch became beings of energy through evolution, but a strange disaster would work too.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't like the transcendance theory because I don't see how a being could evolve to become incorporeal, and then mesh together to form eggs which then hatch and then become incorporeal themselves, it just seems really screwy.

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 19:18
Maybe Golem warriors!!! xenarch create simple biological forms to use as disposable troops or as a kind of host to allow them to get places their containment suits many not allow them? Or perhaps the tech shown in Xenology is old and was used when they used to have a corporeal form and has now since been abandoned?

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 19:20
I still want to know what's irking you about the transcendence thing though, tSoA.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:22
If they created simple biological forms, well, 1. How? and 2. Why? As far as I know, their containment suits are as flexable as a normal body, and as strong if not stronger and tougher.

Disposable troops? How would that work?

Also, I did say that it could be outdated tech from when they were corporeal.

EDIT: And as I said in my last post, I don't like the transcendance theory because I don't see how a being could evolve to become incorporeal, and then mesh together to form eggs which then hatch and then become incorporeal themselves, it just seems really screwy.

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 19:25
TSoA, I think transcendence would work more like creature born, matures, breeds then transcends. That way you would have both physical and bilogical versions of the samy species, I'm sure a similar species was used in a couple of episodes of Star Trek once.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:27
From what Incubilord said, creature born, matures, transcends, meshes with another/breeds/dies. Just doesn't seem right.

I think we should stick with 'It happened because of some weird disaster, and the Xenarch that didn't transcend made suits for the ones that did then died off because of the lack of food or numbers or something.

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 19:27
Sorry TSoA missed that bit in your post about old tech (you must've been writing t the same time as me!) RE: Disposable troops think of them like bio servitors usded to carry out minor functions or whatever.
I dunno just a thought.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:30
Bio-AI would be a very hard to do tech, and really, why can't they do it themselves or have some robots similar to Swarm droids do it?

When I said 'How would that work' I was asking how the Xenarch would control them.

I'm going to get to work on that story I said I would write, and also write up rules for those scout things I talked about.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 19:30
Maybe Golem warriors!!!

Holy ******s! I think we have a new unit entry here! Seriously lets use this. A new biological Xenarch unit...That has ....A conduction spine!!!! We can really make this work and it skirts the whole transcendance thing. ( Always think of Alpha centauri when I heard that word)

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:33
How would the Xenarch control them?
How would biological lifeforms be any better than Xenarch?
Why would they start making them in the first place?
What FO slot would they go in?
Why the feth would they use them?

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 19:38
-Xenarch would control them through the controllers!

-Bio forms would be better then xenarch in perhaps a meat-shield role.

-FO Troops?

-perhaps Xenarch would seem them as cheap fodder?

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 19:39
Holy ******s! I think we have a new unit entry here! Seriously lets use this. A new biological Xenarch unit...That has ....A conduction spine!!!! We can really make this work and it skirts the whole transcendance thing. ( Always think of Alpha centauri when I heard that word)

I'm With you on that man!


How would the Xenarch control them?
How would biological lifeforms be any better than Xenarch?
Why would they start making them in the first place?
What FO slot would they go in?
Why the feth would they use them?

I'm sure these are the kind of questions that the real GW designers would ask all the time, and they sort it all out it just needs some work.
Speaking personally I have never understood why a purely energy based life form would have any need for any kind of advanced tech any way. Just my thoughts and not wanting to knock anybody but hey I like whats happened so far lets keep it rolling :D

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 19:42
Name: "Golem" ( pending )

Ws:2
Bs:2
S:4
T:3
W:1
I:3
A:2

Sv: 5+
Size: 5-20

Must have a controller present

Weapons:
Conduction spine:
Rng: 12 Str: 5 AP: 4 rapid fire Gets hot!


Just something I farted out.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:44
-Xenarch would control them through the controllers!

How? They're not stalkers! They're biological!


-Bio forms would be better then xenarch in perhaps a meat-shield role.

I thought the point of Xenarch was that they were sneaky and kept to the shadows, so a forest with a load of Bio-creatures in front of it would kind of give it away.


-FO Troops?

Another one? I think we have all the troops we need.


-perhaps Xenarch would seem them as cheap fodder?

I'm pretty sure making an entire biological lifeform is far harder than making a manifestation cage, a suit, and a gun.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 19:46
The transcendence idea was going off of the Xenarch being more like living plasma or something.

I thought we said they weren't completely imcorporeal, otherwise how do the shattered become more physical?
Yeah, even I wouldn't buy it if you become a ghost and then a couple of ghosts become eggs.

On the bio-tech:
Assuming the Xenarch are one of the Old Ones' creations, they should be able to bio-engineer new races if they have some of the knowledge their creators did.

I would assume that these critters would be used mainly for areas with a high level of electro-magnetic interference.

Most likely they would be designed with instinctive behaviors that make them aggressive and cause them to go after things that generate energy that would damage/disable a Xenarch suit.

Maybe one of the other races started using a massive EMP generator that made fighting them directly impossible.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 19:47
They can be controlled through conduction spines! Same thing that is in a Stalker, just modified for a biological.

Ok, well, then perhaps they are heavy troops? Sv 2+ ? In a small unit size around a controller, and the only way to armour up something that much is by using a biolgical life form, think of them as siege breakers then.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 19:48
Maybe one of the other races started using a massive EMP generator that made fighting them directly impossible.

i'm liking this a lot. Gives us grounds for the necessity(sp) for a biologick.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:53
The transcendence idea was going off of the Xenarch being more like living plasma or something.

I thought we said they weren't completely imcorporeal, otherwise how do the shattered become more physical?
Yeah, even I wouldn't buy it if you become a ghost and then a couple of ghosts become eggs.

They are physical, just not solid, and I thought we decided they were completely incorporeal. :confused:

Also, the Shattered don't become more physical, their cages are broken and so their power can have a more direct effect on the outside world at the expense of it draining away.


On the bio-tech:
Assuming the Xenarch are one of the Old Ones' creations, they should be able to bio-engineer new races if they have some of the knowledge their creators did.

THE C'TAN DID IT!


I would assume that these critters would be used mainly for areas with a high level of electro-magnetic interference.

...Why? Surely prophets can control the elctro magnetism, not really sure why they'd want to.


Most likely they would be designed with instinctive behaviors that make them aggressive and cause them to go after things that generate energy that would damage/disable a Xenarch suit.

And they stand more chance of survival than a Xenarch, why?


Maybe one of the other races started using a massive EMP generator that made fighting them directly impossible.

I'm pretty sure Xenarch suits are powered by the Xenarch and so shorting out the electrics would be rather impossible.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 19:56
If the Xenarch lives in a little ball in the machine's chest, there has to be some sort of mechanical signal that make the limbs move. I don't care what type of signal it is (it doesn't really matter), I'm just saying one of the races they've fought found a way to jam said signal.

EDIT: And the C'tan already did everything, so what's the point?

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:56
i'm liking this a lot. Gives us grounds for the necessity(sp) for a biologick.

I really hate having biological lifeforms in the army, the Xenarch seemed to have a kind of Buddha-like religion with the [seemingly] clean tech [no belching smoke/vast wastes of energy etc.] and the meditation and the mental psychic/energy manipulation thing going on, creating an entire new race just to die for them seems so unlike them.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 19:58
If the Xenarch lives in a little ball in the machine's chest, there has to be some sort of mechanical signal that make the limbs move. I don't care what type of signal it is (it doesn't really matter), I'm just saying one of the races they've fought found a way to jam said signal.

EDIT: And the C'tan already did everything, so what's the point?

THE C'TAN DIDN'T DO EVERYTHING! That's why I liked the Xenarch it seemed like that had little to do with the War in Heaven, the old ones, and the C'tan.

Also, we don't NEEED to have it so the Xenarch spoil their style and NEEED biological slaves!

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 20:02
Way I see it, the Tau have Kroots / Vespids, Xenarch have....biological...unit.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 20:04
Tau have allied with many races in the expanse of their empire which pretty much is their unique style, the Xenarch destroy their unique style by turning evil and weird by making bio-creatures to do dirty work [which doesn't need to be done...] for them.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 20:05
Hmmm.
Ok, then do you suggest we ignore what was written in the Xenology book?

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 20:08
NO! I do not suggest that, I SUGGESTED, which you would know if you read my posts, that the Xenarch were corporeal and that piece of tech was from way back when they were corporeal and that it's now obselete OR they tried doing bio-tech it resulted in some kind of disaster, Ivide started doing it again, he was banished and he left some biotech behind because of a battle and the Imperium found it and based their knowledge of the Xenarch on that.

GOD!

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 20:09
Look at it this way tSoA.

This is a collaberative effort. We all try to agree, but there's going to be things that somebody doesn't like. There are bits that bug me, like not having the option for looted vehicles, so you're not the only one suffering.

You can always play your Xenarch without the biologicals, and say that they're a sub-set of Xenarch that see creating biologicals as a sign of weakness and poor morals.

Heck, if somebody wanted to they could model the Xenarch as big robot suits for a race of sentient rats.

Nobody can stop you from personalizing your army, this is just an option for that.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 20:09
Hey...Calm down.










Ok...It's ok...it's a fictional universe in the year 40,000.



Alright, then we just graft this into our fluff.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 20:10
I personally like the idea of biologicals. Siege-breaker units if you will...It gives the controllers a new aspect.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 20:14
Hey...Calm down.










Ok...It's ok...it's a fictional universe in the year 40,000.



Alright, then we just graft this into our fluff.

Sorry, I have anger problems... look at it this way, if I wasn't dedicated to this project, I would have stormed away by now.

It's just you guys were going so fast, from the discovery that the canon background says there are somethings biological in the Xenarch army, to the naming of the unit, its place in the FO chart, its abilities, why it was made, its stats etc.

It just seemed very very different to the Xenarch I know, like Khorne warriors showing mercy, or Tau refusing to let someone into their Empire.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 20:16
That's fair enough, and I do like the idea that Ivide crossed the line while playing God.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 20:17
It's ok TsoA, we appriciate your input in this project, a lot.
Now I can understand, perhaps we got a little carried away over this advent of new fluff.
Now TsoA, you see the Xenarch as being merciful, martial warriors but somewhat secluded and isolationists. I see the Xenarch the same way, perhaps a little less bellicous (sp), even alturistic.

Ok, lets take a step back from this new conduction spine fluff and look at other aspects of the dex.

Do we need any special characters?

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 20:20
Now TsoA, you see the Xenarch as being merciful, martial warriors but somewhat secluded and isolationists. I see the Xenarch the same way, perhaps a little less bellicous (sp), even alturistic.

Sure, use a load of words I don't know :p


Do we need any special characters?

We don't NEED them, but it'd be a shame to put the Bakh, Quiem and Ivide background to waste.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 20:24
Every army gets Special Characters. Even the Tyranids are getting them (can anybody say Cityfight Lictor?).

I like having the two leaders we've been toying with and a shattered character.

Maybe what we really need to do is take a step back and look at how to deal with this bit of biological tissue on the Xenarch gun.

So far people have brought up:
This being an old relic from before the rise to energy status
Bio-engineered minions
Transcendence (however you explain it away, there's a (at least pseudo-)physical being that becomes the energy being)

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 20:25
We could also entertain the idea of an allied race...

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 20:30
Not neccessarily bio-engineered minions, but stalkers with advanced bio-AI.

Also, it doesn't say it's a gun, it may be a welder or a device used for reading encripted radio codes, or it may even be a generic part of a stalker's engine, and if that stalker had advanced bio-AI, and it had an Occular array, then one of the biotech-eyes could easily come off with a bit of the engine/part of the occular array. Or it may be a bio-engineered scout-drone, like those floating skulls the Imperium has, only biotech drones.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 20:32
We could also entertain the idea of an allied race...

That is something I can entertain, I just didn't like the idea of the Xenarch making a race themselves.

It would also explain how the transcended Xenarch got suits without saying 'Well SOME Xenarch weren't transcended and then they made some suits for the Xenarch and then died out', we can just say 'Well, they have this allied race, they made the suits'.

What would the allied race be? [No six-legged tree cats ;) ].

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 20:39
Ok allied race it is. Sounds good.

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-02-2006, 21:08
I'm seeing big, four arms, like the Shadowwalkers [maybe the Shadowwalkers wear made in their image?] with no recognisable head but a kind of lump/dome where their head should be, with a collection of 3 big eyes at the front, and many smaller eyes aroudn the outside of the dome/head. I see three fingers, one thumb, big stompy feet with claws.

I see myself drawing one because I have a vivid picture of what they look like in my head...

EDIT: If anyone else has a better idea for an allied race I can just take this idea for an alien and put it into one of my made up sci-fi worlds.

x-esiv-4c
03-02-2006, 21:09
Looks / sounds good to me.

We're building these guys to be "Heavy troops?" 2+ armour save etc?

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 21:22
Gawd! I set a cat among the pidgeons tonight!! Well an allied race souds good to me, kind of like the Trill but without the whole host/parasite thing. Perhaps oneside is the Xen and the other the Arch? without a greater understanding of their society The Imperial explorators just called them collectively the Xenarch.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 21:39
A six-legged tree cat? :evilgrin:

Again, a one-liner idea has taken off without any alternatives considered.

I suggest that we all mull over the physical beings' role in the Xenarch for a bit and come back to this concept if it's the one we pick.

Why did we settle on a Xenarch physiology if the entire race is beings of energy? I'm a bit confused as to where the Raptor-men come in to all this.

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 22:06
IIRC the raptor guys were meant to be what the Xenarch looked like prior to their evolution to beings of pure conciousness. I think the problem was they weren't originally decided upon as energy beings it just came along with the references to being shadowy and using electrical weapons.

IncubiLord
03-02-2006, 22:11
That kinda stinks. :(
Why should we care what they looked like if there aren't any now?
And here I actually spent time debating what the things looked like. I could have wasted more time playing DMC3.

btw, FoU, I like the update to your sig.

Flame of Udun
03-02-2006, 22:19
haha :) Cheers IncubiLord! I certainly managed it tonight! Not intentionally I should add.

The only thing I see as strange is why would a race of energy beings build constructs? surely energy beings wouldn't have need for conventional technologies? and how would you model them without their armour? But perhaps thats just me lacking imagination!

crashbang
04-02-2006, 09:13
okay guys, im back after reading lastest xenarch stuff and the last ten pages debted while i was away. on the allied race/biological unit, the xenarch would need someone to build their cages for them (or were these made some other way?) you could either have the youngling xenarch building the cages, or the new race supplying the xenarch with mass-produced cages.:D off the top of my head but ah well. back to the list!!

*it went from slightly restricted to heavily variable in the space of an edition...and its brilliant

*axiom cells need to be put up points wise. they have now been made very much superior to the infantry point for point. just one point would suffice

*dont think the swarms are powerful enough. do they make one roll each against the tank? even so theyre quite weak considering.

*i like the shattered rules very much.kickass little guys

*graviton singularity cannon: 'on a roll of 1 to hit...' when does it need to roll to hit?? it's ordanance.

the list has improved vastly, and theres not much more i can say untill i test certain bits and pieces (one coming up i promise) i just ask this: please expand the wargear a bit.

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-02-2006, 12:41
Hmm... I agree with the Axiom cells thing, I did think the swarms were a bit weak, maybe we could make them S:5?.

The GSC is now:
Range:48” S:9 AP:2 Type: Ordinance
Or
Range:36-72” S:9 AP:2 Type: Ordinance/Indirect fire
Instability: Due to the unstable nature of the Graviton Singularity Cannon any roll to hit of 1 will lead to an unstable singularity and potentially destroy the cannon. If a 1 is rolled to hit, roll a D6, on a 5+ the cannon is destroyed.

The Allied race would be the ones that create the Xenarch cages and tech. We could have it so that the Allied race was doing something with biotech, which resulted in turning all the Xenarch into beings of pure energy, and they then outlawed biotech and are, technically, in eternal debt to the Xenarch because they accidentally destroyed the Xenarch as they knew them.

I've drawn up one of the new race [minus one leg and gentalia] they were originally large amphibians, but now they live completely above land and aren't that good at swimming. They have the three eyes at the front of their heads and the smaller eyes going around, and they have 4 holes, two either side of its eyes, the top ones are its ears, the bottom two are its nostrils. It has a mouth below its eyes, it has big hooved feet with 3 small claws at the back [somewhat like the feet of that armoured suit I drew] its lower arms are the size of a human's, and its upper arms have fists about the size of a human torso. They're strong and very spiritual, they are the Gau'oul [gow-ool].

Yes they will be tough heavy troops with that 2+ save that the Xenarch so lack. Will we make an entirely new army list for the Gau'oul or just have a few units in the Xenarch list? I think we should make an entirely new army list and allow them to ally with one another.

P.S: Can you playtest the Deep first? I want to see if 60pts is too much/too little for his abilities.

IncubiLord
04-02-2006, 18:07
Not to squash your creativity, tSoA, but there's a few things that bug me:

Would that roll of one to hit actually be the 1 on the scatter dice? Crashbang is right that Ord. don't have a to-hit roll.

If the allied race is the reason that the Xenarch are ghostly, how can we continue to say that they were made by the OO as a weapon against Chaos?

Physiologically speaking, the nostrils should be above the eyes while the ears should be lower on the head. My logic for this is based on prehistoric dinosaurs with a similar structure. Basically, if your reptile were in the water but breathed air, the eyes and ears would need to be submerged for full effectiveness, while the nostrils being on top the head would allow it to breathe without losing its vision and hearing.

It seems an awfully big coincidence that the Xenarch and their allied race would both be lizard-races that happened to be in the same area at roughly the same tech. level at the same time and happen to have peaceful relations between species yet somehow have one manage to wipe the other out. Or is that just me?

Gow-ool is the name of a Stargate monster. Not overly important, but a different name may be better.

crashbang
04-02-2006, 18:08
better if you keep them 'allied detachment' in my opinion, especially if theyre gonna be so heavily armoured. but then again...i like the xenarch how they are, the hit and run type approach, that will wear them down then crush them in a nasty counter if they get close. then again, they might need some heavier, long range fire power as they have the potential to be murdered by shooty armies.

EDIT: just noticed your request TSOA and i'd be happy to. i assme u would want the retinue tested too?

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-02-2006, 22:29
Not to squash your creativity, tSoA, but there's a few things that bug me:

Would that roll of one to hit actually be the 1 on the scatter dice? Crashbang is right that Ord. don't have a to-hit roll.

I thought that direct fire Ord. needed to roll... oh, smack.
I'll change it to a roll of one on the scatter dice.


If the allied race is the reason that the Xenarch are ghostly, how can we continue to say that they were made by the OO as a weapon against Chaos?

THE C'TAN DID IT!
I thought they weren't officially [officially as in we decided on it] but unofficially they could have been [as in no-one has any proof that they're not]. Did I say they were ghostly? I said they were spiritual, that probably came out wrong, I meant their religion is very spiritual, not that they themselves were spirit-like.


Physiologically speaking, the nostrils should be above the eyes while the ears should be lower on the head. My logic for this is based on prehistoric dinosaurs with a similar structure. Basically, if your reptile were in the water but breathed air, the eyes and ears would need to be submerged for full effectiveness, while the nostrils being on top the head would allow it to breathe without losing its vision and hearing.

Yeah, but they've evolved ALOT since they came out of the sea, and the nostrils are used for smelling underwater [it gives a directional sence of smell] and the Gau'oul can close the breathing canal [or whatever it's called] so they don't breath in water. And having nostils on the top of your head isn't that good when you're completely submerged.


It seems an awfully big coincidence that the Xenarch and their allied race would both be lizard-races that happened to be in the same area at roughly the same tech. level at the same time and happen to have peaceful relations between species yet somehow have one manage to wipe the other out. Or is that just me?

Xenarch=[former] lizard-like humaniods with very good gravity-tech.
Gau-oul=rubbery-skinned [formerly] amphibious barely humanoids with very good sensory and quite good magentism-tech [I'm thinking, coil-gun?].

They're not lizard-y, they have grey rubbery skin. And no proper heads.


Gow-ool is the name of a Stargate monster. Not overly important, but a different name may be better.

No, that's the Goa'uld, COMPLETELY different name to the Gau'oul. :D
http://wiki.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/index.php/Category:Goa%27uld

Oh, and playtesting the retinue would be good too, but I mainly wanted to see if the Deep was up to its points cost.

Also, pictures of a Gau'oul [minus a leg and genetalia] and a Gau'oul Ter'e or Mecha [minus two arms, a leg and weaponry. The Mecha are heavy armoured suit, and I mean heavy armoured, like 2+ save.] They're the elite of the Gau'oul, they have a short-range rifle to hold in their lower arms and a pistol to hold in each big arm. And they're biiiig pistols they're made to hold a defensive position, or to be dropped in the enemy lines and unleash a salvo of pistol and rifle shots, and then withstand the enemy's return fire and assault.
http://photobucket.com/albums/e51/TSoA/

IncubiLord
05-02-2006, 05:19
THE C'TAN DID IT!
You tell me what the C'tan DIDN'T do, and I'll find a way to blame it on them. :p

I thought they weren't officially [officially as in we decided on it] but unofficially they could have been [as in no-one has any proof that they're not].
It seemed fairly set that they were when I brought it up a while back. Maybe somebody could clear this up?

Did I say they were ghostly? I said they were spiritual, that probably came out wrong, I meant their religion is very spiritual, not that they themselves were spirit-like.
No, you said the allies were spiritual. The Xenarch, however, you've insisted are incorporeal/insubstantial/non-physical/ghostly/(insert another way of saying not tangible). I got that the allies were mortal. ;)

Yeah, but they've evolved ALOT since they came out of the sea, and the nostrils are used for smelling underwater [it gives a directional sence of smell] and the Gau'oul can close the breathing canal [or whatever it's called] so they don't breath in water. And having nostils on the top of your head isn't that good when you're completely submerged.
The point was that an air-breather would have high-set nostrils so that it could breathe while keeping other sensory organs submerged so as to be more away of potential threats and/or prey.
When completely submerged, nostrils can be bad wherever they are.
Modern day precedent for high nostrils: Whales. The blow-hole (single whale nostril) rests on the top of the whale's back. (True for dolphins as well, iirc.)


No, that's the Goa'uld, COMPLETELY different name to the Gau'oul. :D
Darn straight! We don't have to take that kind of...
Wait, that was my post!
Gow-oold, Gow-ool, it al sounds the same when actors spit it out in a hurry.

TheSonOfAbbadon
05-02-2006, 11:59
You tell me what the C'tan DIDN'T do, and I'll find a way to blame it on them. :p

And then I'll shoot you. :D


It seemed fairly set that they were when I brought it up a while back. Maybe somebody could clear this up?

If only we could search the thread for that, it'll take ages to find it just by looking through the thread.


No, you said the allies were spiritual. The Xenarch, however, you've insisted are incorporeal/insubstantial/non-physical/ghostly/(insert another way of saying not tangible). I got that the allies were mortal. ;)

Good.


The point was that an air-breather would have high-set nostrils so that it could breathe while keeping other sensory organs submerged so as to be more away of potential threats and/or prey.
When completely submerged, nostrils can be bad wherever they are.
Modern day precedent for high nostrils: Whales. The blow-hole (single whale nostril) rests on the top of the whale's back. (True for dolphins as well, iirc.)

Yeah but whales are still living in the ocean and they didn't need to use their sense of smell to find things under the water. Also, they would look stupid with a hole in the top of their heads.


Darn straight! We don't have to take that kind of...
Wait, that was my post!
Gow-oold, Gow-ool, it al sounds the same when actors spit it out in a hurry.

I thought it was pronounce Guld? Eh, well.

What did you think of the pictures.

IncubiLord
05-02-2006, 18:40
Umm...

Okay, let me see if I've got this right.
Here's the basic facial layout

***
: Y :

with the *** as eyes, the top dots as ears, the bottom dots as nostrils, and the Y shape being the flesh between the 3 main eyes?

That's a lot of eyes! What are they all for?
I may want to suggest a change in layout, but right now I just think it has too many eyes.

Oh, and that foot SCREAMS "Tyranid Warrior" to me.

TheSonOfAbbadon
05-02-2006, 20:21
It has eight small eyes going round it's head [like in the drawing] they all have a very wide visual range, but they can't really focus on things [like how you see things out the corner of your eye] they're for sensing movement [spiders use 6 of their 8 eyes for this, the last 2 are for focusing in great detail on their target] their 3 big eyes are used for getting a good 3D image of everything, although it means they can't focus on things close-up easily, which they never needed to do, as, when they were still amphibious and in the water, they would usually spy fish far away then speed forward to grab them in their mouths.

It doesn't scream 'Tyranid warrior' to me, mainly because the rest of it is so un-tyranid-y, but really, it screams, well, [I]suggests, Tau to me, as you can see, the Mecha bares some resembalnce to Tau Stealth Suits [new and old].

IncubiLord
05-02-2006, 20:40
Spiders never really interested me, so I'll take your word on how their vision works.

Right off the bat, I'd say that you only need 2 eyes for a good 3D image, but I'll leave it alone for a bit while others get a chance to comment.

Have you considered the placement and shape of the mouth much?
On frogs, it's like a split right in the middle of what would be the top of your pic's head. It really should be near there for an amphibious being. Alternatively, you have the shark's mouth, which is shaped much like a frown along the bottom of the head.
Or do these critters have a neck area that's flexible enough to move their mouth and eyes to better positions when in the water?

And, on that not being able to focus close up bit:
Then how the h*** can they make something as intricate as a manifestation cage?

TheSonOfAbbadon
05-02-2006, 20:49
From a long way away!

When I say close up, I meant like, I'm currently sitting with my eyes around 3/4 of a metre away from the computer moniter, and can see it without going into double vision to about 10cm, a Gau'oul would usually sit about a metre from the screen and could probably focus up to around 40cm without going into double, or triple vision.

Yeah, you do only need two eyes for a good 3D image, but 3 eyes would give you a better sense of depth, I suppose [I don't really know that much about eyes], beside, I can't imagine them with two eyes.

Did you even look at my drawings?

Flame of Udun
05-02-2006, 22:31
FAO: TSoA
I've done a couple of very quick and dirty roughups to flesh out your idea for the gau'ul (sounds very stargateish to me btw). Is this kinda what you were thinking?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Sketch%20files/Gauulfull.jpg (http://photobucket.com)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Sketch%20files/Gauul.jpg (http://photobucket.com)

IncubiLord
05-02-2006, 22:40
See above depiction of facial layout.
Yes, I looked. How else would we be arguing over whether of not your drawn foot looks like that of a Tyranid Warrior?

The basic 3D from eyes is based off binocular disparity, which is the fact that each of your eyes captures a slightly different picture.

You can toy with this by closing one eye and pointing to an object, then switching eyes and noticing that you're not pointing at the same spot.

Your brain does some fairly complicated matching to turn the two images into one. (This is also the principle used for 3D glasses in those sorts of movies.)

Binocular disparity is also the source of depth perception, which is pretty amazing when think about the fact that you would use trigonometric math to actually calculate the distance to an object based only on the angles between your eyes and the object and the distance between your eyes.

An interesting way to see how your brain makes things 3D is to hold a codex touching your nose. Depending on eye dominance, you should either see one side as your brain discards the conflicting information or a wedge-shaped object touching your nose.

Theoretically, this can be done with more eyes, but the close proximity of the sensory organs will mean that you only gain a very small amount of visual information.

EDIT: And now for my revenge, tSoA.
Six-limbed tree-frogs!?

Flame of Udun
05-02-2006, 23:31
Since these creatures are essentially alien it makes little sence trying to apply earth based biology to alien life forms. Since we only have one biological setup here on earth we always tend to look at things through Terran tinged glasses since it is so hard to concieve what may possibly exist outside of our understanding. Just because 2 eyes is all you need for binocular vision doesn't mean that 3 eyes would act as any inhibitor to a creature's evolution.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 10:26
Yay! An excuse to have three eyes!

Your pictures were good, FoU, but they look quite abit different to what I was imagining, and my sketch is closer to my mind's image of them. Despite the fact that they were previously amphibious, they have grey skin, not green.

What else can I moan about? Oh, their eyes are all black, for one. They have one more eye around the top of their heads than in your drawing. They have a thumb as well as three fingers. And their heads are in no way detached or distended from their torso. And the ears are above the nostrils. :D

Oh, and they never lived in tree, and bare little resemblance to frogs.

Flame of Udun
06-02-2006, 11:34
Well I did say they were rough jobs, took all of 5 mins on my graphics tablet. I hadn't seen you mention skin and eye colour and since your drawing was fairly simplistic I couldn't tell how many fingers they had so I just made that up. With regard to their heads I think that the lack of a mobile head would really count against them in evolutionary terms, I mean encephalisation (the accumulation of sensory organs{ocular,scent, hearing, mouth...} at one end of a organism) occurs in all organisms that possess a bilateral symmetry. I mean how would you look sideways or up and down? It just doesn't seem practical to me.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 12:04
Well, I imagined them without mobile heads.

I can always put this alien race into one of my sci-fi stories and we can start a new Xenarch ally.

x-esiv-4c
06-02-2006, 13:31
FoU, Fantastic artwork for these guys, good stuff. Have we formed up a stat-line at all? Or perhaps a role for these guys.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 14:09
Their role is heavy troops used for anti-heavy infantry and anti-tank mostly, although the Mecha are used to tackle huge amounts of infantry at a time by being dropped in, unleashing alot of firepower with two pistols and a rifle and then surviving the assault with their high save [2+] and then fight back in close combat with their high strength [5].

Apart from that, no stats, although I think their more basic warriors [Mechas are elites] they should have S4 BS3 and T4 WS3, although I'm not that bothered about the other stats. Also, I think the basic warriors should have a 4+ or 3+ armour save and only be armed with a rifle [despite their extra arms].

x-esiv-4c
06-02-2006, 14:11
Right, seeing as they are somewhat lumbering asskickers, perhaps their initiative should be 2 perhaps?

Bmaxwell
06-02-2006, 14:13
how about this for the new guys

the aliens are natrual not that bright they can use tools but don't have the mental capticay to make them.

so the xenarch will install a mainfestion cage inside of the Aliens and basiclly use them and a liveing shell.

now what makes them better then another shell is that they aliens have a extremly fast regeration and can re attach limbs and grow them back (kindof like a troll)

what do u think about that?

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 16:49
I hate it. I hate it so much I would accept Xenarch being created by the C'tan as an alternative.

No offense to you, but alot of offense to the Gau'oul, I imagined them as rather intelligent, and somewhat more logical than humans, not idiots who can't tie a sharp rock to a stick and cut down trees, they have the intelligence to make space craft and powered armour suits along with coilguns and a small vareity of magentic weapons, they are not idiots.

Besides, if THEY can't make manifestation cages, who will? The Xenarch can't being pure energy and therefore being virtually unable to manipulate the outside world, and I doubt there's another race nearby willing to make them manifestation cages and suits.

Bmaxwell
06-02-2006, 17:08
well how about this

the Gau'oul (think we need a different name sounds to much like the stargate worms) are around the technogloy level of current day humanity. I don't like the idea of them being so close to the Xenarch in tech level.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 17:11
Yes, their guns are strength 1, they have no armour saves and their tanks have an armour value of 2.

No, although that's a better idea than living shells, still, no, they're decently high-tech with good magnet tech.

IncubiLord
06-02-2006, 18:04
Throwing in a random idea:

The allied race has a natural quirk that allows them to take on a Xenarch "rider". (Or maybe Xenarch can ride any willing host).

Anyways, these guys were fairly well along (somewhere near modern levels of tech) when the Xenarch found them, but they were losing a war to the Orks (or whatever other race we decide is the big antagonist in Xenarch history).

The Xenarch allied with them to fight the Orks, and shared a great deal of technological information with them (when you host a Xenarch it becomes like a voice in your head, so they can share anything they want to talk about).

The conduction spine is a targetting array and Xenos database that the Xenarch taught them how to make. It ensures that the warriors know what they're fighting and improves their chances of hitting a vulnerable area.

Or, failing that, there is no allied race and "THE C'TAN DID IT!" :evilgrin:

Bmaxwell
06-02-2006, 18:07
I like that idea of the Xenarch "rideing"

but i'm allmost thinking that they would keep them at a lower tech so that they could control them a little bit. not to be cruel but to keep them hidden. form the imperuim.

IncubiLord
06-02-2006, 18:13
If the Xenarch aren't physical beings, all the tech we see may just be a taste of their true wisdom.
It would be impossible for the mortals to understand what happens on their "higher" plane of existence.

EDIT: I still prefer the concept of Xenarch having physical young.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 18:50
They don't have a higher plane of existance, they are still PHYSICAL, they are not SOLID, but still PHYSICAL. They are sentient energy, not warp beings or whatever. And the physical young thing still makes no sense.

I don't like the idea of the Xenarch riding, it makes no sense at all and is just too big of a coincidence.

They are at a slightly lower level of tech, but they are still formidable. Xenarch manifestation tech is highly advanced, I suppose the first ever Gau'oul-made manifestation suit was basically a Gau'oul twice the normal size, made of metal and moved at about 5mph at best, but then Xenarch, being pure concious energy, and therefore having a better understanding of it, were able to make more advanced suits, resulting in the Prophet and Xenarch infantry suits, and then refining the stronger Gau'oul design to make the shadowwalker suit.

Ok, how's about this for a timeline [no dates given, the events are just in chronological order]:

Xenarch discover Gau'oul, Xenarch are superior in technology to the Gau'oul and "take them under their wing", so to speak, more nudging them in the right direction of more powerful tech without just giving it to them.

Gau'oul start biotech experiments, the Xenarch are intrigued as they had not gone along this route, but encourage the research none the less.

Almost half the Gau'oul race start an uprising, calling the Xenarch oppressive, the other half disagree, and join sides with the Xenarch to defeat them.

In their final days, the Anti-Xenarch Gau'oul activate a biobomb, which they thought would be able to destroy the entire Xenarch race, but it fails [to an extent] and the Xenarch become incorporeal.

The pro-Xenarch Gau'oul set about making the first suits for the Xenarch, the Xenarch set about designing better suits to be built once their first ones are made.

The few suited Xenarch [in what would probably be Shadowwalker suits/refined designs of the orginal suits] and the entire pro-Xenarch Gau'oul launch many vicious and sometimes merciless attacks against the anti-Xenarch Gau'oul.

The anti-Xenarch Gau'oul are defeated and the Xenarch demand the remaining Gau'oul stop all biotech experiments, the Gau'oul agree and all biotech research is destroyed and scientists re-employed in the task of making powered suits and magnetic weaponry.

The Xenarch contact the Gau'oul less and less until they are all but cut off from one another and it turns out they are entering a state of hibernation on their homeworlds. Eventually Queim revives them and they recontact the Gau'oul, who have made major advances in magnetic technology.

Ivide becomes Quiem's best pupil, being a powerful Prophet with the powers of both a Prophetic Zero and a Prophetic Eden. He has a powerful relationship with his stalkers and they seem to be able to behave as though they were alive.

It is revealled that Ivide's powerful relationship with his stalkers and their powerful AI is due to the fact that they have biotech components, Ivide is banished.

Along with his armies Ivide eventually returns to the Xenarch homeworld where he confronts Queim. Ivide then mysteriously leaves and takes up mercenary work for other races.

First Imperial contact with Xenarch [Ivide's biotech armies], the Imperium capture a component that they call the Xenarch conduction spine.

Bakh is turned into a shattered Prophet.

Present day.


Does that seem right to all of you?

IncubiLord
06-02-2006, 19:05
Energy is corporeal (physically present). They can't be both sentient energy and incorporeal.
Energy is matter changing. A star is energy. It is also quantifiable matter.
Incorporeal is not physically present. That implies not on our plane of existence.
Pick one.

Because energy is corporeal (though not solid), it is entirely possible for the Xenarch to have a solid young.

If the Xenarch are incorporeal (and therefore essentially ghosts), they do not exist in reality as mankind can define it.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 19:09
I thought corporeal just meant that they were confined to a body, oh well. I guess they're corporeal then.

And stop talking about one subject at a time and comment on the other parts of my post.

Also, no solid young.

IncubiLord
06-02-2006, 19:16
WHY THE BLOODY H*** NOT?
I'm trying to be patient, but all I'm getting is "it doesn't work". Give me 2 paragraphs (that means I want at least 4 sentences) on why physical young are such a big no-no.
You'll notice that I don't just post "Nope, we're not gonna do that" about your ideas.

I like the idea of two races being roughly the same tech level at about the same time and not just outright trying to kill each other about as much as you seem to like Xenarch riding.

Let's wait for some other opinions.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 20:02
Solid young would be, well, kind of impossible, how would it work? They can't be transformed into beings of pure energy and suddenly produce a whole new way of breeding.

Also, it complicates things, would these solid young grow to a certain age and then transcend? Would they need to do some task first? How would they transcend into beings of pure energy? Where would the young be kept? Who would care for them? Would they be like babies as soon as they hatch/are born and so have to learn things and go through school? What would the young look like? etc.

And they're not at the same tech level at the same time, the Xenarch were a space-faring race way before the Gau'oul, they then discovered the Gau'oul and were set back in their search for better tech by the huge disaster that made them all transcend, and then later by their hibernation. When the Xenarch recontacted the Gau'oul, they discovered that the Gau'oul had great magnet tech and powerful solid slug weaponry, where as the Xenarch were still more high tech by quite a bit with their powerful electric weaponry and manifestation/suit tech and their powerful AI stalkers.

Oh, and another thing stop commenting on one thing that you dislike, and comment on the rest of my post!

Flame of Udun
06-02-2006, 21:25
FoU, Fantastic artwork for these guys, good stuff.

Cheers X! I'll try and work up some better stuff when I have tiem this week.


Energy is corporeal (physically present). They can't be both sentient energy and incorporeal.
Energy is matter changing. A star is energy. It is also quantifiable matter.
Incorporeal is not physically present. That implies not on our plane of existence.
Pick one.

Because energy is corporeal (though not solid), it is entirely possible for the Xenarch to have a solid young.

If the Xenarch are incorporeal (and therefore essentially ghosts), they do not exist in reality as mankind can define it.

Erm I'm not sure that I entirely agree with your definitions there mate.
Energy is:# A measure of being able to do work. There are many forms of energy, such as heat, mechanical, electrical, radiant, chemical, and nuclear energies. Energy is measured in such units as the joule (J), erg, kilowatt-hour (kW-hr), kilocalorie (kcal), foot-pound (ft-lb.), electron-volt (ev), and British thermal unit (BTU).
observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/space/stellardeath/stellardeath_6.html

So energy is not matter, it is merely the ability of a system to do something, and therefore cannot really be considered to be corporeal e.g heat is energy but it is not a particle therefore it is not a physical item. So heat energy is has no physical form but does exist on our physical plane. Sorry if that sounds pedantic, I'm not meaning to have a go at you, just trying to clarify the concept.


They don't have a higher plane of existance, they are still PHYSICAL, they are not SOLID, but still PHYSICAL. They are sentient energy, not warp beings or whatever. And the physical young thing still makes no sense.

So what you're saying is they are some kind of swirling, coherent mass of particles like a sentient plasma. (# A plasma is an extremely hot gas that is composed of free-floating ions (atomic nuclei stripped of some electrons - making the ions positively charged) and free electrons (negatively charged). A plasma behaves much differently than a neutral gas, and is considered the fourth state of matter. A plasma conducts electrical currents. Stars are composed of plasma)
If that is the case then I see nothing against 2 (possibly 3 or 4?) Xenarch combining parts of their essence to create a new Xenarch but I'm not sure how a physical stage could be included, I'll give it some thought.

RE: the conduction spine. Could it not be both a weapon/targetting array that would also allow the Gau'uol's (really thing that name is far too Stargate) to communicate with the Xenarch and allow for direct machine interface (like the body plugs in The Matrix) and could allow for remote piloting something like that perhaps? Also it allows them to harness the large amounts of bio-elec they generate (originally evolved as a defensive mechanism c.f. Electric eels).

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-02-2006, 21:48
The Xenarch conduction spine came off a biotech stalker, I don't really see how it could be Gau'oul technology. Also, Gau'ouls do not produce bio-electricity, they may have done in their past but they've evolved out of it.

I think the only logical way a new Xenarch can be created is if some energy is produced, concentrated and then made sentient by the powers of the Prophets.

And I think IncubiLord meant that energy is corporeal as in it exists as we know it and has no higher plane and it doesn't exist in any other dimension, sort of thing.

Also, Gou'old is pronounced go-uld, Gau'oul is pronouced gow-ool, the name reminds me more of the sentient gaseous alien in Blue Peter's Quest, the Gul.

Flame of Udun
06-02-2006, 22:04
But most living thing with a nervous system of some sort would produce bio-electricity, humans produce shedloads of it. I'm just trying to tie the known fluff into the Xenarch being created here.

In stargate I believe it is correctly pronounced Go-ow-oold. It still sounds too similar, if the name is copyright then you could be looking at some form of plagiarism.

Sorry I must've missed something but where does the bio tech stalker come in to matters. If you looked at the picture of the conduction spine (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Sketch%20files/XenarchTech.jpg)
then you can see that it looks like a headset.

IncubiLord
06-02-2006, 22:34
Sorry, guys.
I've been trying to do this while working on programming class-work today. It isn't working out very well, imo, so I'm going to stop posting for a bit.

@tSoA: Your timeline looks alright if that's the way we choose to go. I just think we should wait a bit longer for the others to comment before we write up a whole new portion of Xenarch society. (Some of them aren't online as often as you and I ;))

Flame of Udun
06-02-2006, 23:26
Catch ya around IncubiLord! Good luck with your programming!

FAO TSoA: Just read your timeline, sounds good to me but I'm not sure about the biotech part, not 100% sure why but something doesn't feel right.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 13:10
We really really need to change that Gau'oul name...

Flame of Udun
07-02-2006, 13:23
Courtesy of seventhsanctum.com I have several suggestions.
Arualact
Cashaghai
Degoani
Maz'udar
Matarshani
Nyalost
Photegga
Thotharaeli
Yaegothu

I've highlighted the ones I like in green.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 13:26
I like that Yaegothu name, almost a Lovecraftian feel to it.

Flame of Udun
07-02-2006, 13:28
hehe, I used the lovecraftian name generator :D
They all sound suitably alien I felt.

Bmaxwell
07-02-2006, 15:30
I like that name alot better.

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-02-2006, 15:36
We really really need to change that Gau'oul name...

Why?

Goa'uld is correctly pronounced GO-AH-OOLD which just barely sounds similar to GOW-OOL. Besides, no-one seems to go 'GW need to change the name of Tau because it's too much like the Tau'ri[another SG race]'.

I suppose the headset could be a targetting array for a biotech Prophet.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 16:41
Dude, it sounds way too much like a Star-gate thing.

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-02-2006, 16:48
No it doesn't.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 16:52
No it really does, a few buddies of mine just saw the name and thought we were doing some kind of Star-Gate thing.

Democratically I think we are going for the Lovecraftian name.

Unless you have a reason not to.

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-02-2006, 16:54
Can't you think up a new and different race to be their allies because the Gau'oul are keeping their name.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 16:56
Ok.
Numerically we are putting this one up to a vote.

Who wants Gau'oul
Who wants Yaegothu

(Remember TosA, we did away with the transendance idea that you hated so much....)

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-02-2006, 16:57
Um, you can't really use the name Gau'oul because I'm going to be using it.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 16:57
Using it for what?

IncubiLord
07-02-2006, 16:58
Well then the Gau'oul can be withdrawn from the project.

You have every right to keep your race as you envision it, but if it's not up for modification it shouldn't be part of this project.

They seem an interesting concept, but either let us muck with it or tell us you've decided against using them here.

x-esiv-4c
07-02-2006, 16:59
Ok.
Look, I like the idea of an allied race, like those lumbering looking creatures that FoU drew up. We could really use something like that in the project. I personally would like to see the allied race kept.

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-02-2006, 17:00
Using it for what?

Using it in my sci-fi world stories, as I have stated at least twice in this thread, if the Gau'oul are taken out of the project, then I'll use them in my sci-fi stories.

So, we need a new race, ideas?

Flame of Udun
07-02-2006, 17:08
Ok.
Look, I like the idea of an allied race, like those lumbering looking creatures that FoU drew up. We could really use something like that in the project. I personally would like to see the allied race kept.

Right, I like Yaegothu and I can certainly work up some better sketches than those.