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crashbang
16-02-2006, 17:54
looks like were gonna need to do a vote, my stalker or x's.personally i dont know, although they could be meshed together

1000 posts on this thread!!! YE HA!!!

Sybaronde
16-02-2006, 17:56
You know, you don't have to decide which designs to use just yet. I might even contribute with some designs as well.

-Syb

crashbang
16-02-2006, 18:01
great!! we can have a comp! one with most votes gets put into list!

x-esiv-4c
16-02-2006, 19:11
I would like to ask FoU to "Art" my submission up a bit, make the perspectives correct etc. etc.

Oh, and I vote for mine.

crashbang
16-02-2006, 20:24
i have scion concept sketch on the way btw, trying to keep the general look of the ground trooops the same (like FOU's infantry sketch)

http://photobucket.com/albums/e118/crash370/?action=view&current=lwf3.jpg


btw, what would shattered look like? would they have broken armour, with essence spilling out kindof, or would the essence be locked in by some invisible force, thus making a kind of glowing in the cracks of the armour?

i would like to know because i may be starting a concept of them soon. i wont put up the heavy stalker yet because its still in debate as to whos to use, plus it has only basic changes from the scythe stalker

IncubiLord
16-02-2006, 21:49
I'd say the Shattered are going to be a bit of both. They try to hold themselves together, but they can't manage full control (otherwise they'd be healable and therefore not Shattered). Sort of the way some electrical weapons are depicted as a coherent blade of energy with lightning arcing off of it.

The armor would be obviously damaged, and there would have to be a serious wound in the torso for the cage to be ruptured.

I'd like to see the bracer weapons merge with the armor better. The current pic looks more like something was welded onto the back of the arm, which doesn't seem very high-tech to me.

I thought the Yaegothu bracers would have a very organic look, all smooth curves leading to the exit of a barrel or the edge of a blade. They'd almost look like the designer couldn't figure out if he was making a weapon or a bit of armor.

Flame of Udun
16-02-2006, 22:25
Evening all! Nice to see you guys are all setup on the blog now. Any time you want to post go for it :).

Now as for the artwork, I'll happily flesh out any work that people want me to, thats not a problem at all. I'm not meaning to sit on the fence here but I like aspects of both concepts for the stalkers. I like the dodecahedral look of the body of crash's concept and I like the four legged spikey look of X's concept (but I'd like to slim the legs down just a touch). If nobody minds I'd like to try and combine elements of both and thow it back for you to chew on, but only if nobody minds me doing so. As for crash's scion, I kinda like it but I'm not sure why, I think it is because it has a slightly beefier torso but I'm going to mull over the possibilities. It's great to see everyone breaking out the art supplies:D

I also think we need to consolidate the "fluff poll" from page 88(?) in to a more cohesive document no that we have established the essential points for the Xenarch and Yaegothu and that we have a rough history for how the xenarch came to their disembodied state.

And since this seems to be the day for posting sketches, in good Blue Peter tradition "heres one I made earlier" :D (well at lunchtime actually).
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Design%20Gubbinz/XenarchConceptIIrough.jpg
It's just an early rough and I'm not 100% what unit it could represent but hey here ya go.

IncubiLord
16-02-2006, 23:05
I like it.
And if I post any of my own doodles, it will now be fronted as "just an early rough". I don't have chalks and charcoal.

Have we actually stabilized on the Xenarch/Yaegothu timeline now?

Flame of Udun
16-02-2006, 23:18
Well I figured that our debate about combining both our ideas on the whole transcendence issue was final. Nobody bothered to say anything so I figured that was it. And we pretty much agreed on the general principles i accumulated and posted so again I figured they were pretty much definite.

BTW what do you think my latest effort should represent? I figure it could be a Scion or Shadowwalker but can't decide which?

IncubiLord
16-02-2006, 23:24
It should be a shadowwalker. They need the extra space in the suit for their can't-see-me stuff.

Besides, Scions are armed with pistols, and should have more decorations.

Flame of Udun
16-02-2006, 23:30
cool, sounds like a shadow walker it is then :)

IncubiLord
17-02-2006, 00:38
<wanders in looking as innocent as he can>
<drops text file>
<sneaks back out>

Flame of Udun
17-02-2006, 00:44
Incubi, that rocks mate!!! Most impressed :D
Here is my first concept sketch for the staff style weapons.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Design%20Gubbinz/XenarchWeaponstaff.jpg

[EDIT] Could you post a copy of that up at the blog as well :)

IncubiLord
17-02-2006, 00:50
Shhhhhh...
It's shadow-secrety... ;)

I like the staffs. Let's make sure we stay away from glowing plastic rods and gems though.

The top one looks like it may have a visible focusing crystal. I'd say that's as far as things should go down the glowy-mineral path.

crashbang
17-02-2006, 00:55
I'd say the Shattered are going to be a bit of both. They try to hold themselves together, but they can't manage full control (otherwise they'd be healable and therefore not Shattered). Sort of the way some electrical weapons are depicted as a coherent blade of energy with lightning arcing off of it.

The armor would be obviously damaged, and there would have to be a serious wound in the torso for the cage to be ruptured.

I'd like to see the bracer weapons merge with the armor better. The current pic looks more like something was welded onto the back of the arm, which doesn't seem very high-tech to me.

I thought the Yaegothu bracers would have a very organic look, all smooth curves leading to the exit of a barrel or the edge of a blade. They'd almost look like the designer couldn't figure out if he was making a weapon or a bit of armor.

ah, so u mean a bit like nids, only with actual hand and not organic?

on other things, fluff was good, and i'd have to agree with what FOU said about the stalkers. ill probs start some concepts for shattered soon. what did people think of the scion look?

noticfications of the xenarch list in the blog have gone off to both librarium online and GW's official site. wheather theyll be answered (especially on GW) remains to be seen.

i've been trying, and failing, to get a good unique shape for the transport which ive forgotten the name of. anyone up to the challenge?

meanwhile i might delv into some new rules. ill bring em back if i think they might be good

Flame of Udun
17-02-2006, 01:07
Shhhhhh...
It's shadow-secrety... ;)

I like the staffs. Let's make sure we stay away from glowing plastic rods and gems though.

The top one looks like it may have a visible focusing crystal. I'd say that's as far as things should go down the glowy-mineral path.

It does have a small crystal looky thing but it's not actually meant to be a crystal like the necrons or eldar. I really think we need to keep away from anything that starts to overtly resemble any other GW race. I'm trying to use a mixture of geometric shapes and curved/blade-like edges to define their form.

BTW I've posted a list of artwork up on the blog for people to check out.

IncubiLord
17-02-2006, 01:10
If you looked at the old metal Tyranid Warrior spinefist arm, that's more the feel I'm thinking.

You would have the bracer and a weapon mount that's shaped like half a cone (cut from the tip to the middle of the base) with the edges much smoother than would normally be expected. Of course, smooth edges would make poorer detail on roughly 1:72 scale, and the Xenarch are already pretty sharp edged, so I could go with dropping the sleek, contoured look.

I liked the scion, but I just had a thought while I was looking at him that I thought I'd throw out:
If Xenarch are in all these variant suits, shouldn't they all look the same?
We could have different looks, but they'd come more from the manufacturer. This enables a variety of suits that all do the same things, essentially making each persons sketches "right". FoU draws the stuff from the main factory (because he's pretty flexible about letting us pick at it), but crashbang's sketches are of suits from the mobile factories in battlegroup (insert your group's name here, crashbang)

Flame of Udun
17-02-2006, 01:20
That sounds cool to me Incubi, I'll play ball. :)

[EDIT] We have our first response at the blog !!!

x-esiv-4c
17-02-2006, 13:28
Staff weapon looks great to me!
Feel free to take my pic and edit it FoU, slim down those legs!

x-esiv-4c
17-02-2006, 17:44
Quick thought:

How about "The Shattered" always count as casualties for VP purposes and cannot hold table-corners.

Flame of Udun
17-02-2006, 18:05
Evenin' all!
Well that fits with their fluff certainly so I can see that working but I think they should only count as half value for VP's as you are essentially fielding a dying trooper unlike say the Death company who only count as casualties if they take a wound and die post battle where as if they don't take a hit then they don't die, if you see what I mean. Otherwise you are just handing over vp's to your opponent and people may not end up taking them in their force.

[EDIT] Also here is my first pass at the Needle Class stalker:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Design%20Gubbinz/XenarchStalker.jpg
Let me know what you think.

[EDIT 2] Actually I've reread the decriptions in the codex and don't like the body on that pic. But cosider the legs to be more along what I was thinking. I also have worked up a version that combines ideas form both crash and X but myscanner has just decided to have a fit on me do it may be a little while before I post that pic.

crashbang
18-02-2006, 10:04
okay, lets talk aout the needle stalker.

*shorter legs maybe

*i dont like the thing on top. maybe a bigger, more spiky claw like thing on the end, and a more stury looking turret thing, if that made any sense.

*feet like the infantry, only with 4 hoove like things instead of one

apart from that good. the infantry dude with the staff looks good btw, makes him look methodical but nasty.




*drops 'accidentally' pic of xenarch scion, drops a smoke bomb and escapes*

http://photobucket.com/albums/e118/crash370/?action=view&current=lwf3.jpg



a reply from librarium came this morning. the guy in question's only problem was the plasma blade. since weve had another person on the blog say this, i think it needs to be changed. grand master something said that it should be 25pts for wound on 4+ and ignore saves



i had another battle with the xenarch, this time against the dreaded necrons

my list

zero, nasty combat upgrades of doom
32 infantry
12 reavers, rip guns
6 shattered
graviton
4 needle class stalkers
controller

necrons

2 necron lords, both with orbs, one with a veil of darkness
20 necron warriors
2 heavy destroyers
6 immortals


*immortals caused royal havoc in the infantry lines, their guns netting many kills

*infantry have lost alot of their firepower, netting just 3/4 necrons over the game

*the stalkers did well, stomping a necron squad into the dust, and then causing a necron phase out by destroying the one model needed.:evilgrin:

overall they looked pretty balanced.

but theyre is one big concern, the infantry.
by taking away the assault 2 rule for their weapons they have lost most of their effectiveness, and this dissapoints me since i really like them. i would really really suggect that they get their assault 2 rule back, going up 2/3 points in exchange. otherwise theyre carrying flashlights with an assault rather then rapid fire rule:(


EDIT: just saw this troubling comment on the blog

INTELLECTAWE
'I really do admire your hard work in putting this tigether, but they sound too much like Necrons. The whole Idea of souls in metal bodies is basically what Necrons are. And especially their Star Gods.

is he right or wrong about this? personally im thinking 'well technically theyre beings of plasma in cages.....er..'

what u guys think about this?

Bmaxwell
18-02-2006, 11:18
That guy has is necron fluff worng. The necrons are simply robots they have no soul and cannot think for them selves. what the c'tan tells them to do they do it. Xenarch can think and reason for them selves.

another big thing is that the xenarch can "reproduce" the necrons can't

Flame of Udun
18-02-2006, 11:59
Yeah Bmaxwell is 100% on this one. I think any resemblance is superficial at best.

[EDIT]I've replied to that comment, and have posted up the background fluff that Incubi submitted.

crashbang
18-02-2006, 12:32
whew, glad that was sorted :D .

what about the xenarch infantry and scions?

Flame of Udun
18-02-2006, 12:45
What about them?
BTW I like your drawing of the scion but I think the bracers need some work, other than that it's cool, and thanks for the comments on the walker, I'm thinking of giving it a more conventional body to give it a more centaurish aspect.

crashbang
18-02-2006, 15:35
what about the infantry: in short, reducing them to assault 1 reduced their power so exponentially, and i really would prefer them to be assault 2, even if they go up 2/3pts so as to represent their fluff better

Deathorglory
18-02-2006, 17:19
i'm new here i'm one of crashbangs friends (the black templars player) and hes got me into the xenarchs so heres what i think. First i love the xenarch warrior and crasbangs first shadow walker (he one with four arms as it looks very imposing) but i definatleys prefer x's stalker. The only problem i have with crashbangs scion shade and stalker is that they bear far too much resemblance to the xenarch warrior and even thought they should look roughly along the same lines they should not be that close. Also in case your all interested i will be getting the book 'Xenology' which could provide some help proviing the xenarchs are featured of course (which i'm sure they will be)

IncubiLord
18-02-2006, 18:29
Man, I don't post for a couple of days and look what happens!

First, I don't think the Shattered should always give VP. Let them get points for killing the ones they do, but Shattered may well fight in the next battle if not slain now.

I do agree that the Shattered shouldn't be relied upon to hold objectives though.

As far as the basic rifle being Assault 1, I thought this would be an annoying and unique aspect of the Xenarch basic troop. The can shoot you at longer ranges while on the move.

On the Xenology book:
Some people already have it. The Xenarch have a small bit in it which we've already dealt with.

Flame of Udun
18-02-2006, 18:45
Hi Deathorglory, unfortunately the Xenarch don't feature apart from a mention about a piece of recovered tech. all the work you see here is what we've put into it based on our own ideas around 2 very small GW pieces about. Anyway thganks for helping to playtest for us, and we'll welcome any input to the project :)

Flame of Udun
18-02-2006, 22:46
Hey guys, I've stuck a thread up at Dakka Dakka. Check it out HERE (http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/93/forumid/16/postid/35093/view/topic/Default.aspx)

Bmaxwell
19-02-2006, 02:41
hey guys what do You think about makeing two threads for this project.

one fluff based and the the other rule based.

just a thought that poped into my crazy head

IncubiLord
19-02-2006, 04:54
I think that the two are too closely linked to have in seperate threads.

I've been toying with the idea of a "finished work" thread or some such though. One where we condense the fluff and rules into a single post for every (insert #) here.

It would be nice to have something clean to point at when new interest shows up.

Then again, that's sort of what the blog is at the moment...

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 11:21
Yeah that was the idea behind the blog, somewhere to stick "finished" pieces. We are getting hits there now so I reckon you guys should stock a link in your sig as well to spread the word.

Bmaxwell
19-02-2006, 14:16
Just posted the Xenarch Prophets info up there

Im pretty sure I did it right.

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 15:05
Hey Bmax, yeah you posted that just fine, I'll get a link added in the Background section in the sidebar. It's cool stuff but if you don't mind I'd like to go through and tidy it up a bit. No offence but some of your grammar is a little out of whack.

Bmaxwell
19-02-2006, 15:28
Oh trust me your more then welcome to. I went over it before I posted it.

didn't help that I checked it in at 9 in the morn when I frist woke up.

as long as you don't change the meaning of anything thats fine.

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 15:44
It's cool man, I've just ran it thriough a spell checker to do a quick clean up. I'm not sure that I entirely understand all the concepts in your piece, O'll have a chew on it first though to try and figure out what doesn't sit right with me:)

Bmaxwell
19-02-2006, 16:00
Take your time.

and I think I caused some confusion when I said Liveing stalkers.

I don't mean Biolgocial stalkers i meant that these were independant stalkers no need for a controller. a true AI. you would think that a xenarch would have been inside. there that advanced.

crashbang
19-02-2006, 16:45
hey guys. just a quick thing, i was wondering what types of names the xenarch leaders would have? i was considering having a crack at a special character, u see. ill do another version of the scions to put up, and possibly a prophetic eden, and then maybe the shattered.

welcome death btw, glad to see u here

lots of jaw dropping and drooling from librarium about the concept art:D :D
so we know were doing well there. one person asked how to model them. personally i dont know-these look completely unlike any model piece ive encountered as ive said before. however i can look around the net for appropriate pieces.

and one person said to drop the troops choices to two cell choices instead of three, cause he said 3 would be cheesy. i can test out this idea and see how it pans out.


from the support were getting we could mail a sample to GW and see what they think

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 16:46
no it's not so much that more as to what their religion actually is, Is it a theistic religion with a/many gods or is it a more philosophical religion like buddhism?

Personally I see it as a combination of Zen buddhism + Quantum physics. Their focus being about achieveing a oneness between matter and energy, they have an immense understanding of space/time mechanics and quantum dynamics. They see the purity of energy as perfection but understand that energy cannot exist without matter, this principle underlies much of Xenarch philosophy.

Anyway It's just an idea, I just think we need to establish what the core of the Xenarch religion is.

Bmaxwell
19-02-2006, 16:59
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Do we want the Xenarch gods to be real "gods" or just a sort of idea. Like Nirvana, and so on and so forth?

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 17:05
Hey crash, I just found your post over at Librarium (HERE (http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/t59298-codex-xenarch.html)).
Thats good stuff man, I'm pleased to hear we are getting such a reponse. I think we should hold the phone on sending GE anything yet. 1) I don't feel the project if finished enough yet and 2) I really think we need to have our stamp firmly on this before we let GW shred it.

As for modelling them, the best base model I can see so far would be a necron pariah, but you'd need some fairly hefty green stuffing to workit into shape and it would be really expensive to try putting an army together that way. I have some experience with modelling using green stuff so I might try doing a conversion as a one off to see what it would look like.

For names try using the name generators at seventh sanctum (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/) and post some good ones up here.

Bmaxwell
19-02-2006, 17:23
how about standred necron warriors fill in the ribs with green stuff. and then mabye get a small gem shape that would fit the head profile quit nicely.

at least that would be the cheapest way to do them mabye not the best though.

crashbang
19-02-2006, 19:40
Names for special character

Xen-clarin

Fen-rath,nier

Yenrik-clyn

what do you think?

for the character itself, i think that he, like most special character should, epitomise the key aspects of their race, in the case of the xenarch, gurrelia tactics and medium firepower.

would any of you mind if i tried out two ideas in the next playtest: the 2 cells for 1 troop idea suggested from LO, and assault 2 for infantry at 3 extra points? theyre two ideas i would like to test and see how they pan out.

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 20:14
Test away chap :) BTW have your tried using the Yaegothu yet?

[EDIT] Out of those 3 names I'd have to go with Xen-clarin but I'm not overwhelmed by any of them tbh.

Also I've added the Yaegothu rules to the Codex and called it 1.9.4. Full version minus fluff up at the blog now.

IncubiLord
19-02-2006, 20:46
Hey, whoever posted version 1.9.4 in the blog put the Yaegothu heavies in HS instead of Elites.

I thought we changed it...

On names:
Previous special characters have had names that were taken from word which describe them (sort of).

Quiem was taken from Requiem, and Ivide came from divide. It wouldn't be too hard to do this with a word or two for any new character we created.

EDIT: And testing those two ideas together shouldn't lead to problems. Have fun!

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 21:00
Whoops! That would be my bad :(, I'll slink off and change it now ;)

Also I think we need to compile the fluff for the Yaegothu as well.
I should have some new sketches for these guys later, just trying to work the bugs out of my scanner.

IncubiLord
19-02-2006, 21:20
Bah! There is no fluff on the Yaegothu. :p

I shall now insist that a stick figure in a "POW!" bubble is in fact a specific person transforming into a being of energy...
And insult other people's ideas. :evilgrin:

Seriously though, we have very little on these guys.
They're a divergent species from the Xenarch who aren't far enough in their development to Ascend, but may well do so in the future.

It looks like we're rolling with the ambush predator concept I tossed out a while back, and we know their general build, but that's about it.

Flame of Udun
19-02-2006, 22:36
Ok how's this for size:
The Yaegothu are a species closely related to the Xenarch, however their evolutionary lineage diverged some 1.5 million years ago. They evolved from a pack hunting ambush predator in the semi-tropical scrubland of the primary continent of the Xenarch homeworld. At the time the Spire was discovered the Yaegothu were living in a simple tribal fashion, employing a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. The Xenarch were aware of the existance of the Yaegothu but for the most part had left them alone. However the discovery of the Spire also triggered a period of hyper evolution in the Yaegothu but to a much lesser extent than the Xenarch experienced. After the Age of Transcendence the Xenarch came to find they were coming onto increasing contact with the Yaegothu and that the Yaegothu had rapidly developed in to a preindustrial society. After investigations in to the progression of the Yaegothu, the Xenarch realised that the Yaegothu must have the potential to transcend as they did and so they made contact with the Yaegothu. Over many years the Yaegothu were integrated in to Xenarch society and with the development of conduction spine technology, the Xenarch were able to commuicate with the Yaegothu on a higher level. At present the Yaegothu are often found acting as interplanetary traders and are often the first to establish new colonies. The Yaegothu have come to grasp some of the higher philosophies of the Xenarch and hold them in great reverence. They are willing to fight to protect the Xenarch empire and form an elite core within the armies of the Xenarch, often acting as scouts and pathfinders using their natural resilience and understanding of the environment to strike hard at the enemy and fade away without a trace.

IncubiLord
19-02-2006, 23:00
Wow, where to start?


They evolved from a pack hunting ambush predator in the semi-tropical scrubland of the primary continent of the Xenarch homeworld.
Were they originally much smaller then? They would have to pack-hunt elephants or something if they were close to their current, ape-built size.
I'd like to see them be from a tropical area (like the amazon river area) and they should be from the secondary continent (the Xenarch were on whatever they would have declared the primary continent, and the Yaegothu should originate from a different land-mass).

However the discovery of the Spire also triggered a period of hyper evolution in the Yaegothu but to a much lesser extent than the Xenarch experienced. After the Age of Transcendence the Xenarch came to find they were coming onto increasing contact with the Yaegothu and that the Yaegothu had rapidly developed in to a preindustrial society.
I'm not so keen on the Spire reaching around the planet to affect the Yaegothu. I'd rather that they just had a leap in technology while the Xenarch were otherwise occupied with their new "let's turn into living plasma" religion-thing.
I'd actually rather that they were still looked upon much as we view primates until the Xenarch came back towards the end of the Age of Transcendence and found Yaegothu tribal societies.

After investigations in to the progression of the Yaegothu, the Xenarch realised that the Yaegothu must have the potential to transcend as they did and so they made contact with the Yaegothu. Over many years the Yaegothu were integrated in to Xenarch society and with the development of conduction spine technology, the Xenarch were able to commuicate with the Yaegothu on a higher level.
We should add in a bit on the Yaegothu accepting genetic modification which made them bigger, stronger, tougher, and so forth. This is easier done with my last point, but there are ways to work it into pretty much any culture.

At present the Yaegothu are often found acting as interplanetary traders and are often the first to establish new colonies. The Yaegothu have come to grasp some of the higher philosophies of the Xenarch and hold them in great reverence. They are willing to fight to protect the Xenarch empire and form an elite core within the armies of the Xenarch, often acting as scouts and pathfinders using their natural resilience and understanding of the environment to strike hard at the enemy and fade away without a trace.
Heh. I kinda implied that when I wrote the bit of fluff on the Xenach's origins...
Yeah, that's how they seem to fit in to me.

EDIT: And my Yaegothu entries in the 'dex look plain BAD. The formatting is all funky and stuff compared to the others

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 00:06
Were they originally much smaller then? They would have to pack-hunt elephants or something if they were close to their current, ape-built size.
I'd like to see them be from a tropical area (like the amazon river area) and they should be from the secondary continent (the Xenarch were on whatever they would have declared the primary continent, and the Yaegothu should originate from a different land-mass).

They don't have to be that small, chimps hunt colobus monkeys (and it's disturbingly well coordinated and very gruesome to see) and the monkeys are smaller than the chimps.


I'm not so keen on the Spire reaching around the planet to affect the Yaegothu. I'd rather that they just had a leap in technology while the Xenarch were otherwise occupied with their new "let's turn into living plasma" religion-thing.
I'd actually rather that they were still looked upon much as we view primates until the Xenarch came back towards the end of the Age of Transcendence and found Yaegothu tribal societies.

In that case I say we just have them as a tribal race because otherwise it would take a much longer time than the few hundred years of the period of transcendence to change from a primate like state to even a basic hominid hunter gatherer type civilisation. I just thought that if we make them seem too primitive then they would clash with the Xenarch plus it would make them seem kinda krootlike. Also how would a tribal society perceive the Xenarch, they'd think they were gods or something and I really think we should avoid that path. If we make them pre industrial, there can be a level of initial superstiton about the Xenarch but much less than in a tribal society. Plus the continents don't have to be that far apart, therefore the mutative energy released when the Spire was first activated doesn't have to travel that far and if it dosen travel that far and the energy has dispersed somewhat that can be your reason for why the Yaegothu weren't affected to a greater degree.


We should add in a bit on the Yaegothu accepting genetic modification which made them bigger, stronger, tougher, and so forth. This is easier done with my last point, but there are ways to work it into pretty much any culture.

I don't think they should be genetically modified, I think they should naturally be big and strong.


EDIT: And my Yaegothu entries in the 'dex look plain BAD. The formatting is all funky and stuff compared to the others

No worries I'll sort the html tags tomorrow.

IncubiLord
20-02-2006, 00:35
They don't have to be that small, chimps hunt colobus monkeys (and it's disturbingly well coordinated and very gruesome to see) and the monkeys are smaller than the chimps.
Good point. I usually think of pack-hunting as wolves taking down a larger prey-creature. I've heard of the chimps' hunting strategies, but never seen one of the cool documentaries that must be out there. It's probably why the concept doesn't usually come to mind.

In that case I say we just have them as a tribal race because otherwise it would take a much longer time than the few hundred years of the period of transcendence to change from a primate like state to even a basic hominid hunter gatherer type civilisation.
...
If we make them pre industrial, there can be a level of initial superstiton about the Xenarch but much less than in a tribal society.
I actually said they should be tribal at that point.
<glances innocently at his rather large post>

As a darker history though, there could have been a small group of (mortal) Xenarch that enslaved some Yaegothu (this could easily happen unknown to most of the population), using them much the same way we use certain primates to help paraplegics. If these trained workers killed their oppressors, they could easily jump from a non-society to a basic pre-industrial society in a short amount of time.

the mutative energy released when the Spire was first activated doesn't have to travel that far and if it dosen travel that far and the energy has dispersed somewhat
Then shouldn't there be a lot of species on the Xenarch world that have the potential for transcendence?
I was thinking that the Spire's effects should have been a very localized phenomenon.

I don't think they should be genetically modified, I think they should naturally be big and strong.
So do I, actually. But there was a good deal of talk about the Xenarch modifying the Yaegothu genetics, so I felt it needed brought up.

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 00:58
Ok so naturally big fella's, no genetic tampering, thats good.

Sorry I don't think I was clear enough when I initially mentioned the whole tribal to pre industrial phase. Perhaps they should be at a more iron age level when the xenarch decide to make "first contact", that way they could have a fairly complex civilisation but without being too detached from their environment?

Re the Spire effect, I figured that it would only effect species on the planet that were at an evolutionary advanced stage. It's convenient I know but thats just the way I thought of it.

Anyway at least we're finally hammering out some background for them :)

BTW I did a quick scan of my necron codex and once you take out most of the art work and extraneous fluff it boils down to about 18 pages of pertinent fluff and rules and TBH we aren't that far away from that!

IncubiLord
20-02-2006, 01:16
I'm starting to lean towards that darker history. It rings true to the 40K universe for me.

I was actually thinking that the Xenarch would have made contact during the Age of Transcendence, and thus the Yaegothu would have actually known Xenarch as physical beings and even witnessed their Ascension.

If the Xenarch discovered the Yaegothu before the Age of Transcendence and saw them as a primate, some could have secretly gone about turning a large group of Yaegothu into slave labor against the general view towards them.

It really parallels the mistreatment of Africans, making it easy to imagine. A few bad people turned many of these poor creatures into beasts of burden.

The enslaved Yaegothu would have been forced to learn language and work together as well as the basics of agriculture and mining (or whatever was profitable), so when they rebelled and killed their oppressors, they had all the foundation needed for a pre-industrial society.

By the time the Xenarch show back up in the last hundred years or so of the Age of Transcendence, the Yaegothu would have well-established agriculture and low-level technology.

Add to this that the Xenarch would send a mortal diplomat to ensure the best reception, and the Yaegothu would be initially hostile but eventually agree to trade with the Xenarch. After that, simple curiousity would take care of the rest.

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 01:25
OK I'm willing to play along that line of thought. Fancy coming up with a piece of fluff to fit? Also please don't make them too dark, I know 40k is meant to be all grim and dark and somber but it does my nut a little, especially since they're trying to darken the Tau.

Konrad_Curze II
20-02-2006, 01:51
just looking at the blog with the list and the concept sketches and think theyre amazing and would look awesome as an actual army! i wondered are they an actual gw race that they made up or a brand new one that you guys made up cause if its the second it would be even more amazing

IncubiLord
20-02-2006, 04:18
The Xenarch are a race GW has pseudo-created.
They exist in two different instances now.

The first was the =][= rulebook, where a Xenarch gun is in the armory.

The second is the new Xenology book (which has been met with a good amount of criticism in general), where there is a bit of tech they call the Xenarch Conduction Spine. It looks like a headset of sorts, and there's a disembodied eyeball aparently attached to the gizmo.

There's no real fluff on them, just a couple of items and mentions of the "shadowy Xenarch" and their electricity-based technology.

@FoU:
I'm looking at it, but it may take a couple of days. Mondays are extra busy here.
I also noticed a line from my copy/pasting that shouldn't be in the first one, OOPS!
If you could remove the line:
"Ascension is dependent on something unique about Xenarch biology, so they couldn't convert humans or Tau, but the Yaegothu may be similar enough if they are a divergent species of Xenarch."
from that post, it would be appreciated. That's obviously chat and not part of the in-character text.

Bmaxwell
20-02-2006, 05:03
Basiclly we took nothing and made all of this.

x-esiv-4c
20-02-2006, 13:24
Boo! I'm back.

Ok, I've just reviewed over the last few pages of the thread. FoU, I'm liking the needle-stalker however something doesn't sit right with me with it's dorsal weapon, it seems to break up the flow of it's profile.

I was also wondering if anyone wanted to take a stab at actually modelling one of these chaps? I was thinking that maybe using a necron body as a base might work....

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 13:39
Hey X, I agree about the upper body, I'm trying to mull around some ideas, I just don't want it to look either too defilerish nore too mechwarrior esque, I'll keep tweaking it until I'm happy enough to repost it.

Also, I'm happy to give the modelling side a go. I've got some, admittedly limited, experience with green stuff, but I won't be ablt to start until early next month as I am well skint and it would have to be post payday.

x-esiv-4c
20-02-2006, 14:10
Oh, don't worry yourself too much about modelling these guys just yet.
I suggest the following for the stalker:

"Buck-out" the legs a little more so the body of the stalker sinks some. This will give it more of a brooding look. Now, as for the weapon mounts...tricky. A dorsal mount is probably the only way to go however it has to be done in such a way as to not destroy the profile, you've got the skills FoU to come up with something i'm sure! :)
I would like to see an occular array on it, a bank of lenses and scopes on the front for it's "face".

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 14:26
The Weapon mount and occular array shouldn't be too much of a problem, the real problem is trying to integrate the surge claws.

x-esiv-4c
20-02-2006, 14:30
Ahhh yes the surge claws.
Mounting scythe like appendages on the under-carriage won't look right I don't think, to cliche too.
Perhaps the surge-claws could be a "leg upgrade" a series of cerrations (sp) down the leg mounts?

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 15:17
Ok I think I may have a plan based on this guy from Void's Urban warfare range.
http://www.wargamesworkshop.co.uk/Images%5CProductImages%5Cum13318.jpg
Twin link the weapon on the right arm and make the left arm more claw like, and give it an extra leg. Just for a general layout, I have no intention of just copying it wholesale but what do you think of the general layout? Oh and give it a big central occular array.

x-esiv-4c
20-02-2006, 15:24
Ok, I like it. One think that irks me is the "spine". I don't think it looks quite right to have such a distance between the leg joints and the bottom of the "hull". Some separation would be good but too much would look off-balance.

Flame of Udun
20-02-2006, 15:38
Yeah I agree, I just spotted it and though "hmmm, potential". Ok I'll try an upper body profile like that then.

crashbang
20-02-2006, 22:02
okay guys, next time i take the xenarch to battle i will test the yagger things (must remember name next time) and some small ideas. im still convinced that xenarch infantry should be assault 2 for a points boost, as ive grown to regard them as more expensive flashlight carriers:mad: :mad:

one guy on librarium suggested dropping the anti daemon fluff, and leaving the spire as a mysterious object

what do people think of the scion btw? ive only had one op so far, and it was a bit vague. ill be getting on with a shattered soonish hopefully, with some flexy surge claws

Bmaxwell
20-02-2006, 23:37
Do we have fluff on the scion's?

If not mabye they could be like prophets in training?

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 00:06
Ok I'm really not sure about the fluff we have on the prophets at the moment. For me it doesn't seem to gel with the way the Xenarch have been moving.

Let me provide examples:



All Xenarch can communicative with any other Xenarch but the prophets are on a plane higher when it comes to this. Prophets can communicate with all other prophets and all other Xenarch but Xenarch cannot communicate with the prophets except for vocalization.

This makes no sense to me, I don't see why the xenarch should have to resort to primitive linguistics like this. There shouldn't be one xenarch more advanced than the next, it just doesn't feel right to me.


The Xenarch Region is centered on staying hidden until the Xenarch god sIannL has come to take his children away. Though there are many iterations of it the basic ideals remain the same. Xenarch remain hidden form the outside world and wait for the sIannL to come and take them to the Promised Land


No gods, like I said previously: "Personally I see it as a combination of Zen buddhism + Quantum physics. Their focus being about achieveing a oneness between matter and energy, they have an immense understanding of space/time mechanics and quantum dynamics. They see the purity of energy as perfection but understand that energy cannot exist without matter, this principle underlies much of Xenarch philosophy." Plus I thought we'd already said that siannl sounds too much like slaani and that we'd discarded that part.


According to legend all Xenarch were in a deep sleep on an isolated death world. And due the passing of time as well as the fact the system was trapped in warp storm form much of the Xenarch’s Slumber. The devices that kept the Xenarch memoirs was destroyed and corrupted beyond recovery. As well as the machine that would awaken the Xenarch were damaged and unable to awaken the Xenarch. According to legend Queim was the only Xenarch able to keep his memory form before the time they went into their deep hibernation.


That sounds SOOOOOOOOOOOOO necron. Plus If Quiem was one of the Xenarch how did he wake up to wake up the reat of them?


During a meditation with Queim he was allowed to enter the Halls of Life, which only Queim was allowed to walk. It was in the halls of life that Queim had awaked the Xenarch Race. While Ivide was in the halls something changed with in him exiting the halls in raged he took his personal army and left Xenarch space.

What caused him to get in to such a strop that he went AWOL?


In Retrospect it seemed that when he had left he had found the fabled Quadtracite, which was according to legend where sIannL had left the world and left powerful artifacts.

I'm just kind of lost now...

Just to clarify it's only in the past week that've had a chance to read the stuff on the prophets so iff I seem a little late with this I apologise. BTW I'm not meaning to have a go about this stuff it just doesn't feel like it sits correctly with the rest of the fluff and IIRC this stuff was compiled way back towards the beginning of the thread.

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 00:12
Okay. I'll see if i can tweak it or Explain.

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 00:40
OK I've edited my last post Bmax, I'd just hit reply too early.

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 01:00
the Xenarch belive that there are gods.

But there aren't and Queim knows this but played along knowing that religon was a great motivation for any civilzation.

Ivide Figured this out when he was in the halls.

The sleeping could go along with the transendance idea. aslo could be why there are no more biological xenarch (I know there was a plauge but the xenarch being so advanced some could have survied) Queim could have been the frist one to wake up orginaly but like i said there memories were messed up so.....

The Quadtracite was back when the xenarch was made. sort of like a m,assive place were xenarch protypes and the like were housed but we could say that it happened to have alot of spire "type" tech. if that makes sense.

and again with the god's if they aren't there but Queim is just there to keep the xenarch culture with a strong base. I still haven't figure out why or how he dissappered. but i think that should be left open.

make sense now?

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 01:21
the Xenarch belive that there are gods.

But there aren't and Queim knows this but played along knowing that religon was a great motivation for any civilzation.

Ivide Figured this out when he was in the halls.

The sleeping could go along with the transendance idea. aslo could be why there are no more biological xenarch (I know there was a plauge but the xenarch being so advanced some could have survied) Queim could have been the frist one to wake up orginaly but like i said there memories were messed up so.....

The Quadtracite was back when the xenarch was made. sort of like a m,assive place were xenarch protypes and the like were housed but we could say that it happened to have alot of spire "type" tech. if that makes sense.

and again with the god's if they aren't there but Queim is just there to keep the xenarch culture with a strong base. I still haven't figure out why or how he dissappered. but i think that should be left open.

make sense now?

Not really TBH.
I just really don't see the Xenarch as being a race who have a god based religion. With the exception of the Tau Empire every race has a god/gods in some way, shape or form, I think we should explore a way that doesn't pander to such an obvious stereotype.

I thought the Background fluff was pretty clean cut now, with Quiem discovering the spire and he along with a number of other Xenarch were the first to experience transcendence. Him and the others then used their knowledge to help the other Xenarch to fully complete the transcendence.

So is the Quadtracite a building or a mineral? If its a building if could be made a part of the complex found a the site of the spire which would be OK. Plus I thought that Quiem had discovered the technical instructions for the manifestation cages and the like at the spire and had passed that knowledge on to the Xenarch before they had all completed the evolution into their new form so that they would have the tech ready to use.

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 01:25
The problem is that d@@@ IncubiLord!
He had to go all revisionist on us!
Let's get ahold of him and, and...

Wait, that's me!
Oh, yeah.
Well I still blame me for all current confusion.

EDIT: And I'm fueling the fire! :evilgrin:

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 01:31
I knew you were lurking around here, incubi!
I like the stuff you put together, I admit it's not 100% what I would do but about 98% so that aint bad. Its just this old fluff needs to be totally reworked. It just seems uncordinated (no offence bmax) compared to the new stuff, I mean I like the idea about the rebellion (seems slightly Horus heresy to me but I'll let it ride for now.) but all this mutterings of gods and prophets being unable to communicate with other Xenarch just doesn't feel right nor comfortable.

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 01:33
Quadtracite is a place I allways thought of it as a world sized space station just sitting in the middle of no where.

Not such as "god" in the christan sense but more like extremly powerful prophets.

the Spire could prehaps be allmost like a "part" of Quadtracite. and the spire only has one thing it which the xenarch were able to devlope many things form. see what im getting at?

Im not makeing a lick of sense am I?

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 01:34
well also all this stuff was wren't along time ago and i had a time were i couldn;t help out on the project so things changed.

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 01:43
No harm there.
You've got some good base ideas there, I'd just like to adapt them to the current view.

From your early writings, I got the impression that the Prophets are to Xenarch kind of like the Greater Daemons are to basic Daemons.

You might eventually reach that level, but it's a big step up.

@FoU:
How could you know?
I've been almost exclusively using invisible mode since I joined warseer.

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 01:47
I felt your psychic signal looming in the warp, ;)

but really when there are 3 members looking at the blog and opnly 2 of them are named then it's usually you!
like right now 2 members, one listed(ME) and 1 guest

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 01:53
Yea thats kindof what its like just a more advanced form of transendance.

Do we want to make up rules for Queim and Ivide? Just wondering

now its just me and a guest.

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 01:56
Invisible members don't show up as a guest.

I've actually tracked Brimstone quietly moving in one of the threads that caught my eye.

If you come in at the right time, it will say that there are X members, but not list all of them...

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 02:00
@ Bmax, Ok I can kind of see what you were aiming at now, but since there have been a lot of changes since that fluff was origionally developed I think we need to take a look at it with fresh eyes and see what we can keep and what may need changing. It's still good stuff though and I really admire the work you put into it.

@Incubi, mate that is fried gold! I really like that piece on the Yaegs.

[Edit] thats what I meant, its just there was you, me and a guest but I was the only named member.

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 02:05
I just played along with the first =][= report we did and fluffed out the concepts we were talking about. Nothing too special there, but I'm glad it meets your approval. ;)

I enjoyed killing the specimen at the end, too.

Does that make me Evil?

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 02:15
I liked that =][= style rep, I nabbed it from one of the codices originally.

And yes you are evil :evilgrin:

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 02:17
No.

It makes you Imperial.

So hmmm mabye certain aspects of Religon have lets call them for now "Actant's" (reactants is the source word) these are Prophets that before the xenarch went to sleep choose to stay awake to wacth of them while the slumbered. but when the xenarch awakend they were gone. no trance.

since then every once and awhile some sort of "mircale" will happen and it will be attrubited to one of the Actants. there a set number.

now if we want this to be real thing it could be just a another more advanced stage of asendance mabye the final one.

acuattly I like the Idea thats what happened to Queim he became a Actant.

hows that?

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 02:34
Ok I like the next level transcendence thing, thats cool (many steps on the path to nirvana type thing.) I think that Actants doesn't really sound Xenarchy, I think we should ditch that idea of just knocking off a couple of letters from a word, it sounds silly. How about the word "Amata" (buddhist reference to nirvana as immortality). Also I think they should be like Bodhisattva's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva), remaining present amongst the Xenarch to assist in their attainment of perfection and harmony.

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 02:54
That works for me.

With the names im trying to use mathmatical or scientifc things. Figured that fit well but i like the name you came up with alot better.

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 03:51
No.

It makes you Imperial.
Ouch. Why would you insult me like that?
Well, YOU"RE a SQUIG!!! :p

Trying to stay with the stuff I wrote (yeah, I'm biased), how about one of the Amata helped Quiem Ascend?

We could go crazy with combining the two ideas, and have the Amata be the race that created the Spire.

The Amata were a dying race which could not reproduce, and so they created the Spire, a device to help mortal beings Transcend, in order to ensure the continued existence of their kind.

After the creation of the Spire, most of the Amata fused their essence with the primordial ooze of a newborn planet on which the Spire was buried. A few Amata remained to be the caretakers of this young world and its precious secrets...

@FoU, I'm not well-versed in Budhist lingo, is Amata an actual Budhist word? If so, I suggest modifying it for our own use.

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 12:01
Well from what I've been able to find on Wiki, it's a word the Buddha used in reference to immortality.
Gautama Buddha sometimes refers to nirvana as amata ("immortality"). Elsewhere the Buddha calls nirvana 'the unconditioned element' (i.e., that which is not subject to causation).

I was thinking of it more as a title for the next level up rather than a new race of beings as adding more races to the BG will inevitabley make matters more difficult. Linguistically I believe it has its roots in Sanskrit.

Anyway I'd like to have a go at compiling the Xenarch religion, see what I can come up with.

x-esiv-4c
21-02-2006, 13:13
Can we include the report by Seth Bainton in the project blog please?

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 13:18
sure, it already is it's just in with all the gubbinz of version 1.9.3.
I'll change it now. PS you all have admin level access to the blog and can add and amend any of the posts there.
[EDIT] Done! also posted Incubi's Yaegothu piece and both are cross linked in the sidebar

x-esiv-4c
21-02-2006, 15:52
Ahh merci FoU.

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 17:00
no worries, I hadn't realised it was missing

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 17:22
OOOOOH, I'm an admin now?
Great! Now to replace all those "="s in the Yaegothu entries with ":"s so that they look like the other entries.

<laughs maniacally and disappears>

<returns covered with the remains of a text file>

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 18:40
Ok guys this if the fluff I've come up with for the Xenarch religion.
Take a peek and let me know what you think.:)

IncubiLord
21-02-2006, 18:53
NOOOO!
My eyes have betrayed me!
The core of my personal beliefs has shattered!

Right, on a more serious note:

I'd like to add a bit that some think Quiem was guided by an Amata that came before the Xenarch.
Don't explain it, just imply that the Spire was actually used by a previous race. Unless that bit is wrong... :evilgrin:

I also find the wording a bit unusual in some cases.
#1 talks about harmony and balance, but when you say harmony I read "everybody living together peacefully". That kinda contradicts the concept of balance, where there must be evil for there to be good, there must be darkness for there to be light, etc.

I can't put my finger on it, but the wording of #5 feels off.

Likewise, #6 is quite ambiguous on what the "right thinking" is.

Flame of Udun
21-02-2006, 19:12
hey man, The ambiguity is partly to make it sound kinda mystical and partly to allow for philosophical debate. It would allow Xenarch to draw separate meanings and create debates about the true meaning of the statements. Also these are probably just part of a larger body of Xenarch writing which hasn't been covered here. Anyway let me try and clarify the points:

1: Basically you have to have good and evil, dark and light, energy and matter , space and time etc but they must be harmonious, one not existing without the other but in proportion to the other, harmonious and balanced.

5: is meant to say that while logic is often correct you should never assume that just because something is logical it is necessarily correct. Question the obvious, but not just for the sake of it.

6: Ah this one is meant to be a bit meta physical. The "right thinking" is about considering things carefully I guess but that point is open to interpretation, thats the beauty of it.

I don't mind implying that Spire was put there by somebody else but by whom and how it guided Quiem should remain vague, otherwise you could end up with "divine" intervention and then you'll get gods popping up and I really want to keep off that possible track.

Anyway it's all meant to sound kind of mystical and like you could debate it and have more to delve into.

Bmaxwell
21-02-2006, 23:07
WOW

Remeber that Queim did not until very recently. and even then it's still unsure if he really did. (but its what happened)

Queim on Purpose stayed behind rather then go all the way. The amata are quite seperated form the world. and though they have a amazeing understanding of everything it is hard for them to affect the world in any real way beside's telling thoughts but they have to be extremly careful with what they tell people.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 00:06
OK just to clarify, in the fluff that I wrote, Amata refers to the next stage of Transcendence (the Xenarch believe there are 12 stages to enlightnment), the group of Xenarch who have reached Amata are the Brasatsim. Anyway, I agree that the Brasatsim should be removed to a degree from Xenarch society as with each transcendence they lose a fraction more of their ability to affect the real world. But they should still have some presence as they are there to act as guides to the next step to enlightenment. Perhaps Quiem, being the first to transcend is in someway stronger than the other Brasatsim and still has a strong grip on the physical world. The only thing I don't understand why the Brasatsim would be hiding something from the rest of the Xenarch?

[EDIT]Also I've updated my Shadow Walker Piece. Check it out. :D
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Design%20Gubbinz/XenarchConceptII.jpg
BTW I know the lower legs and feet need some extra work.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 00:27
Also here is the revamp of the Yaegothu head.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Design%20Gubbinz/YaegothuII.jpg
enjoy.

Bmaxwell
22-02-2006, 00:28
Not so much as withholding but more like.

Your not gonna tell a child how your car works. you'll just tell them that it needs fuel other wise it won;t run. not because your but because its past them at that time.

aslo kindof like how you don;t ruin a childs xmas by telling them there no santa.

as they say Ignorance is bliss sort of thing.

well i figured that a antama wouldn;t need a manifestion cage any more.

thats why its hard for them to manipulate the physcial relam.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 00:40
Hmmm, I see the Brasatsim in a guiding role but I don't see the need to mention that the Brasatsim aren't telling the Xenarch something it sounds too conspiritorial. Bear in mind that the Brasatsim haven't yet reached Rahiem (their equivalent of Nirvana) yet, and so I don't think their is that much for them to with hold anyway.

Bmaxwell
22-02-2006, 01:40
true true. that makes sense but you know what i mean.

the Yaegothu looks to nice and its just the eyes and the mouth change that to make it look more meancing. I think these things should be some nasty things that you don't want to fight.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 01:53
Unfortunately that Yaegothu was extremely bored whilst I was drawing him, you should have seen him when I told him I though his wife was his brother! Man I haven't seen a reptile look like that since Godzilla had that bad curry in "Godzilla 29: the Balti house of doom"! :D

Bmaxwell
22-02-2006, 02:14
Hope you had you paper and pencil for that one.

Man i want to see a picture of either xenarch or these guys in close combat.

do we have prophet skecths some where?

IncubiLord
22-02-2006, 04:15
Were you shooting for frog-man? :o

I miss the sharp, pointy fangs from croc-face.
Remind me why we didn't like the croc look...

Anyways, how about something a little more dinosaur-ish?

Bmaxwell
22-02-2006, 04:33
I liked the croc-face

man thank god for no typo there.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 10:42
Ok I'll try for something Dinosaurish (I thought we didn't want lizardmen in space?). As for other artwork, well my time is very limited and I'll do what I can but it takes time to churn out this stuff, plus nobody has specified what the prophets are supposed to look like.

x-esiv-4c
22-02-2006, 13:20
Shadow stalker = brilliant

Yaegothu = not as...brilliant.

To me, the Yaegothu looks a little benign, benevolent....Benvolio ( yay shakespeare). The only thing I can suggest is to....mean him up a bit? Perhaps some kind of mandibles? Tusks?

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 14:53
Ok, give me some time and I'll put together a selection of variant heads for you guys to look at and choose your favourite bits from. I'm going to vary the designs between either 2 or 4 eyes as 3 just isn't a number that will work with the kind of design I think you're after. Anyway, X what did you think of the religion fluff stuff?

crashbang
22-02-2006, 16:55
shadow walker fantastic, right out of the top draw. yaegothu..hmm...what can i say... kinda reminds me of barney the dinosaur (big fat pink rex) who youd really like to shoot with a shotgun. longer, thinner head maybe? or you could have it like a mole head, seeing that they tunnel.

ive almost done a shattered being...but it looks dubious. ill see what you guys think when i post it.

any news from dakka-dakka?

TheSonOfAbbadon
22-02-2006, 17:01
Hello.

I was wondering, on the Blogger Xenarch Blog, at the bottom it lists Contributors, is that people who have actually posted in the blog, or people who contributed to the Xenarch codex [because I noticed I'm not on the list]?

x-esiv-4c
22-02-2006, 17:20
I'll have a scope over the religion stuff once I get a chance.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 17:54
TSoA, The list on the blog is just a list of people who are signed up and able to add official posts there. Don't worry you'll get your 5 minutes of fame.

TheSonOfAbbadon
22-02-2006, 17:56
I thought it was 15 minutes... :p

Ah well, as long as you remember to credit me somewhere.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 18:07
no you just get 5. :evilgrin:

Plus I think we've still got a way to go before we start writing the acceptance speeches.

IncubiLord
22-02-2006, 19:55
I do want to stay away from lizardmen in space, but I was trying to give a good reference for more predatory facial features.

Tusks may work, and the idea of a mole-like head interests me...

TheSonOfAbbadon
22-02-2006, 21:14
How about horns?

Oh no wait I left this project! Damn!

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 21:23
Dude, when was the last time you saw a mole? It looks like a rat with no ears, and no eyes, infact it's just hair and teeth!

@TSoA, contribute what you want man, just don't go around acting like a complete prat and peeing everybody off when somebody does something that you don't like. Instead take a moment and EXPLAIN what it is you don't like and what you would do to change it. It's really not that hard.

TheSonOfAbbadon
22-02-2006, 21:26
@TSoA, contribute what you want man, just don't go around acting like a complete prat and peeing everybody off when somebody does something that you don't like. Instaed take a moment an EXPLAIN what it is you don't like and what you would do to change it. It's really not that hard.

It's times like this I wish this forum allowed swear words.

Flame of Udun
22-02-2006, 21:33
Anyway, getting back on topic I'll see what I can come up with that doesn't look too dinosaury and you guys can have a look see.

Bmaxwell
22-02-2006, 23:27
I think that its not just the them there's the xenarch as well so we won't have to worry about the Space lizardmen thing.

x-esiv-4c
23-02-2006, 15:47
i'm liking the religion thing so far. Looks pretty good to me.
As far as I can tell, the blog only shows the Bainton fluff and the religion, where did everything else go?

Also, I would like to put forward a task:
Make the 'dex look more codexy. Instead of standard WORD formatting, modding up the layout of the dex to look more like a GW production etc etc. I would also like to charge FoU with the task of doing the cover-art for it.

I was thinking that within the codex, throw a few bits of fluff here and there to flesh it out, like you see in the margins of the DH 'dex for example.

Flame of Udun
23-02-2006, 17:17
The Blog was set to show the last 3 posts but I've altered it to show the last 25. All the posts are cross referenced in the sidebar. I'll happily do the artwork but it's going to take a bit of time to build up a more substantial body of work to pad the codex out, I mean on comparison with the necron codex there is roughly a 1:1.5 ratio of pieces of artwork to pages of text (not including the painting and modelling section). A good comparison to work from would be Agis Neubauer's Exodite codex, http://www.agisn.de/html/codex_exodites.html. The PDF download would give a rough idea to work from.

crashbang
23-02-2006, 17:18
okay so well need to give seperate people seperate tasks. art can fall to FoU, if he has the time. if not, it could fall to x-something (sorry) and then to me or anyone else. i can write some fluff about each unit, and maybe a battle piece.

feel free to completely tear the above to bits btw.

meanwhile ill try and get some games in vs horde armies and see how they fare.

IncubiLord
23-02-2006, 17:53
I have actually been quietly trying to transfer the current 'dex into the format used for my DE update (the pretty Word .doc that looks like codex pages, let me know if you want to see).

I've been a bit busy lately, so it's going slowly, but I could probably finish that within a week. It would still need artwork and text inserts, but those things can be worked in.

Flame of Udun
23-02-2006, 18:00
Hey Incubi, I'd like to take a look at your DE stuff if you want to email a sample over.

[EDIT] CHeers dude, I'll have a look at this when I get back later this evening :)

IncubiLord
23-02-2006, 18:18
Sample product sent. :)

EDIT: Grrr. Post while I'm typing, will you?
...

crashbang
23-02-2006, 19:41
i'd like to see that

IncubiLord
23-02-2006, 19:47
I have just reached a new level of laziness:

Forwarding my own messages!

x-esiv-4c
23-02-2006, 20:29
Ok FoU will work out the art stuff, Incubi-lord, think you can handle the 'dex formatting? Bmaxwell, think you can write little bits of fluff / quotes and things that can be thrown into the 'dex?

IncubiLord
23-02-2006, 21:45
I can, most likely, dress it up.

A little of this, a little of that, use the 3-row table I created that looks like the usual stat-line box, insert a pic...

Sure, I'll give it a go. Expect something within a few days.

Bmaxwell
24-02-2006, 01:49
I'll think of some stuff but I got a show Im working on this weekend so I can't work on it till sunday sorry for the delay.

IncubiLord
24-02-2006, 04:05
We're all busy with the annoying "real world" atm.

Don't worry too much about a couple of days, just remember how long the thread has gone between posts in the past...

crashbang
24-02-2006, 06:44
gah. 'real world' :mad: . always screwing people around.

ill write some fluff stuff

Flame of Udun
25-02-2006, 17:37
Hey guys, I've been trying to think about colour schemes for the xenarch amd was wondering what thoughts you lot had on the matter. Personally I think we should go with black as the primary element, blues/purples secondary with maybe some red for some minimal highlightly bits (weapon sights etc). What do you think?

IncubiLord
26-02-2006, 04:46
Mirrored surfaces would be really cool, but too much of a pain in the rear end.

I think the color schemes would wary with the environment to maximize camo potential. Something bare-metal-looking would be ideal for fighting on ships (where most likely there isn't paint wasted on every wall and ceiling), while I'd imagine there's a typical green-and-brown used on jungle worlds.

Going off the idea that Xenarch can change their exterior plating as easily as we change clothes, I'd say you're free to do whatever colors you'd like.

I'd prefer darker colors for our stealthy aliens, but there may well be a "dress uniform" that's bright and flashy and used to impress instead of for tactical benefit.

I kinda like purple being their "pure" color, as white is to humans. It could be the color of their energy, or the combination of red (typically associated with fire) and blue (associated with electricity and also extra-hot fire).

crashbang
26-02-2006, 09:28
generally it would be based on their enviroments. in the story im writing theyre gonna be white as their on an ice world. probably dark blues and black
anywhere else. (i.e where there no need for camoflague)

ill get in shattered pic oday i promise:rolleyes:

EDIT: and here it is. bit dubious on it myself, and will props redo it but here it is for now

http://photobucket.com/albums/e118/crash370/?action=view&current=shattered.jpg

Flame of Udun
26-02-2006, 17:41
Ok, I don't think I was clear enough what I meant was a standard colour set that people when thinking Xenarch would associate with them, for instance:
Necrons: Gunmetal and green,
Bloodangels: Red and Black
Iyanden Eldar: Deep blue and Yellow.
Imperial Guard: Camo green
Tau: Golden Yellow w/ Red for Farsight enclaves.

See what I mean?

IncubiLord
26-02-2006, 19:39
The dress uniform that they all get painted in despite the fact that it is about as tactically sound as walking around playing a harmonica?

Yeah, I see what you mean.

I like mirrored surfaces, it would be really disturbing to talk to them or fight in CC with them while constantly seeing your reflection in a ton of facets of their armor. But, as I said earlier, that would be too much work.

For ceremonial armor (which they will strangely wear to every table-top game) I think it would be cool for them to decorate their armor in patterns of natural energy. There could be armor that fades from red to yellow as you go up the suit, armor that looks black with lightning arcing over it, and so forth.

Of course, that may be taking the energy religion aspect a bit too far, so feel free to shoot it down.

Bmaxwell
26-02-2006, 22:21
or there armour or just the outside covering could be a made up of a metal or metal like substance that depending on the amount of energy (wheter it be electirycy or other wise) will changes it's color.

That way they never need to change there armour.

gonna work on the fluff nuggets tonight. I'll make up some things that ivide and queim have said along with some otheres just to give the xenarch some names besides those to.

IncubiLord
27-02-2006, 21:44
Well, bring on the mass mailing!

You should all get an e-mail saying that I have added you to a mailing list now. I just grabbed every e-mail address I saw in this thread, so it's not just the recently active people getting this. If you didn't get an e-mail, pick one of the below reasons and respond appropriately.

A) I don't like you.
B) I didn't see your e-mail address on this thread.
C) I'm trying to kick you off the project.
D) All of the above.
E) There was a data entry problem, and your info needs corrected.

Also, I've got the first version of the Codex pages set up, so anybody who wants it can say so at the bottom of a post.

It's just version 1.9.3 (EDIT: er, whichever is on the blog) in a different format, so you already have the rules, this is just my clean-up of it.

IncubiLord
28-02-2006, 03:55
Random questions:
Would there ever be a Yaegothu in charge of a small battle force?
Do we want a Yaegothu heavy weapons squad?

Crazy thought:
Let's make rules for Yaegothu characters and a couple more units then allow a Yaegothu-only army list.

Bmaxwell
28-02-2006, 11:23
I think that they could be in charge of a small force.

mabye 1,000 points and under a Y(im calling them that for short) could lead a comeplty Y force.

heheh just realized that we have the X&Y army. kindof funny.......

x-esiv-4c
28-02-2006, 12:52
Thanks for setting up the mailing list, that should make things easier.

crashbang
28-02-2006, 22:58
writing a small piece of fluff up, involving the ambush of imperial guard :evilgrin: . meanwhile what did peeps think of shattered pic? yes it is odd but say anyway and i can change it.

http://photobucket.com/albums/e118/crash370/?action=view&current=shattered.jpg

IncubiLord
28-02-2006, 23:14
Can't be sure, but it looks pretty undamaged to me.

I'm not sure what the "guts" of a Xenarch suit look like, but I think there needs to be the odd gaping hole where you can see the broken bits.

crashbang
03-03-2006, 21:35
gah, ill try but im not adept at this stuff yet. there will be a story (eventually :rolleyes: )

anymore pics from everyone else? fluff?

Flame of Udun
03-03-2006, 21:43
Hey dudes, sorry the real world has really been in the way of late, I've got a few design ideas kicking around but I haven't had the chance to let them loose on paper yet. I've got the weekend off so hopefully I can get some stuff roughed out at least.

Bmaxwell
03-03-2006, 21:55
well alot of real world issue's for me to going straight form lead sound techie, on the last show right into lead light techie and light design.

so yea very little time but mabye this weekend I'll be able to write up the qutoes

Firedrake28
04-03-2006, 03:37
Well, here I am.:p This is Kate from LO, and I asked if you guys would like any help, and I was directed here. I'm unsure of what I can do at the moment, as it seems that you guys are doing quite well with this project, but I'll do whatever I can.

*bows* Your wishes are my commands.;) :p

IncubiLord
04-03-2006, 03:53
I wish for money! No wait, POWER! :evilgrin:

Seriously though, this is a free-form sort of project. What would you like to do?

Firedrake28
04-03-2006, 04:47
Well, I can't claim to be an amazing writer, but I can try and help out with some fluff writing, once I start to get a feel for this race. Also, people tell me that I have a knack for spotting rule inconsistencies and playtesting, as well as rule writing, so I'd prefer to be doing that type of work, rather than something that doesn't suit me as well. My objective here on Warseer is the same as that on LO... To be as helpful as I can, where I can, and that usually involves me working with what I'm good at. Sooooo... If there is any room left on the rule design team, that would be the best place for me to be placed, if it's possible.

Thanks,

Kate

Bmaxwell
04-03-2006, 04:53
Incubilord do you still have all of the stuff I sent you?

If so Forward them to Kate for us.

that stuff should aslo help out

and the link in my sig is the link to the projects blog everything in there is agreed on as being semi Permant part of the fluff.

IncubiLord
04-03-2006, 04:58
If you haven't read it, the blog is the best way to get involved in this project without reading 1000+ posts of arguments. Most people on this thread have it in their sigs, just click the link in bmaxwell's posts.

Any rules problems/suggestions you would like to point out are quite welcome, as this is a work in progress.

We don't get much playtesting done often, so any reports of that which you would like to post would also be most helpful.

The codex tends to get e-mailed out every time we update it, so you might want to post an address, but we're trying to keep the blog current.

And I'll send on bmaxwell's early work (if you post your address or pm it to me). It is under review because there was a drastic shift in the concept, but still holds some of the core concepts that we work off of.

Firedrake28
04-03-2006, 17:04
Well, to make things as quick as possible, here's my email address: Just email me with whatever needs to be sent, and I'll begin as soon as I can.:)

lil_ol_kate@hotmail.com - This can also be accessed in my user profile, just for the record.;) I'll edit my post once I get a copy of the most current version of the rules with my first take on everything.

Thanks very much for letting me help out!:) This project is awesome, and I'm glad to be a part of it!

Bmaxwell
04-03-2006, 17:47
"Broken they are but is not our own existance? Do not look down on your fallen brothers, for they have made the ultmete scarfice, and they serve as a reminder that we may not be in this world but we are still connected to it" -Prophet (eden) Veile'ave In regards to the Shattered

"You could never understand, you will NEVER understand why I have done what I've done!" -Attrubied to Queim to Ivide in the halls of life after Ivides return to the home world with Ivide's Wrath

"The Xenarch are past use brother's but one day we shall change and Join them as kinsmen in the sky"-Yaegothu Task master Dabbon

"We move queitly sliently, for some one must stick the blade in the back of our foe. for if we do not the blade will be in our back"-Prophet (zero) Inenoga

there's a few to get your fluff taste buds tingleing

IncubiLord
04-03-2006, 19:13
Data torpedo launched...

As mentioned earlier, the most recent copy of the codex is in the blog, though I've got a cleaned-up version of the same thing that's coming along nicely.

crashbang
04-03-2006, 22:25
a nice little battle story for ya now. not sure what to call it yet bt enjoy!!

On an ice planet in the northern rim, in before unknown space, mass construction hade begun. Spires of all colours and size were emerging from the ground, glowing in the night, and reflecting off the ice to give a warm glow. To a child, it would look like a wonderland.

And blood was about to be shed in its presence.

Colonel Mendrek of the 23rd drenreik guard walked with a proud arrogance, his command squad following behind 2 platoons, and then 2 plattons of conscripts. A squadron of sentinels occupied one flank of the advancing force, while a hell hound took the other. And 2 leman russ demolishers took up the rear. Mendrek smiled. This force was among the first to land, along with two other companies of the 23rd and a company of marines from the mortifactors chapter. They were all en route to the mysterious set of spires that had sprung up not far from here, and Medrek was determined to reach there and annihilate any forces there first. To this end he had set up his force. Anything that came from the front, would be tied up by the conscripts, while the hellhound and sentinels moved around the flanks, the guardsmen would fire in and the demolishers would also. Of course he hadn’t told the conscripts this master plan. That many of them would die mattered little to Mendrek. They would die for the greater good-himself.

As the drenriek passed through the mist that had suddenly appeared, they never noticed the beings that rose from the snow all around their rear, or the huge skimmer which had silently skirted the force to appear in the rear. Meanwhile, the rapidly appearing forces leader and his aids moved towards the sentinels on one flank, another small elite closing rapidly on the Hellhound.

It all happened very fast.

Before any guard had even turned around, a hail of fire ripped through their ranks, the carapace armour offering little protection against the hail. The command squad died almost instantly, only Mendrek surviving having thrown himself to the ground. Over the comms link he demanded why the tanks had not begun attacking back. Looking around his question was answered. The hellhound exploded as he looked around, only leaving a massive black crater, while a Leman russ also exploded, shrapnel and a glancing blast rending the second one’s tracks useless and making it unable to aid the drenriek in the one sided battle. The sentinels were being destroyed one by one, wracked by powerful blasts that tore their legs from under them and detonated ammunition cells.

The last of the guardsmen fired into the mist, dropping one of the shadowy things, before they were torn to pieces by 2 shells that exploded in a devastating lightning explosion. The conscripts abandoned their weapons just as the second russ was thrown in the air by an immensely powerful shot to the rear, landing where some of the guardsmen were originally, as beings with weapons that looked oddly like two handed staffs stalked out of the mist

In that brief time period, what was supposed to be a spearhead of the imperial attack on this new settlement had been reduced to less than no threat.

Nil-thei, Prothetic zero and commander of the 3rd xenarch ambush group, was smiling underneath his mask. Using the spires as bait had worked more perfectly than any of the war council had thought it would, drawing the enemies forces away, breaking them, sapping their morale for the inevitable battles that would take place on the northern rim as the imperials collided with the still unknown xenarch empire. He held his head downwards, the results of the other three ambushes that had taken place, and smiled again.
“There is no more need for any more bloodshed today” he spoke, his translated voice travelling through the mind of the defeated guard “Return to your…emperor and tell them there that we will no longer tolerate your foolish and thoughtless invasions on our planets. If they attack again, we will not be so merciful” His last words coincided with his troops levelling their staff weapons at the survivors, making sure not one did anything stupid.
“We have 3 more forces approaching this area, one of more powerful troops then your minds can contemplate.” The imperial commander said in his arrogant tone, standing up. “You scum xenos will not survive the night.”
Nil-thei regarded the commander, preparing the words that would crush the arrogant being like, in their language, an insect.
“You think we have not thought of that? They have already been defeated, and are at the mercy of our troopers just like you, though they put up more of a fight then your cowardly men ever will. As for the elites you speak of? We dispatched our Yaegothu allies to deal with them. Your ‘elite’ died to a man”

The imperial commander seemed to shrink, the hopelessness of their situation sinking in, as the alien commander summoned a red dust from nowhere, seemingly sending it to shroud the guardsmen. As they faded out of conciousness, they heared a few last words “Remember our message: we are the Xenarch-and we will only tolerate so much”

crashbang
05-03-2006, 22:18
i have a test match coming up, a 4 way carnage battle, bwahahahahaha. probs involving the tau/necrons, black templars/iron warriors and space marines. ill have fun kicking their ass. what do people think of the fluff above? suggest stuff and i can improve it. firedrake you could write up small fluff for each unit, and maybe a special character. :D

Bmaxwell
05-03-2006, 23:11
I liked the fluff you had there but rather then a eden prophet the one you presented sounded more like a zero. or at least how i imagined them

crashbang
06-03-2006, 15:32
oakie doke, ill change it a bit.

Flame of Udun
06-03-2006, 21:55
Hey everybody,
sorry I haven't been around much I've just got alot of stuff on at the moment. Anyway, thats some cool fluff crash I like the scenario but the wording doesn't flow quite well, but other than that its cool.

I should have some stuff to upload fairly soon but my scanner has gone on the blink.

Firedrake28
06-03-2006, 22:23
Ok... Well, so far, I really don't see anything that could be seen as a glaring issue with the Dex. Thus far, things look reasonably balanced. My best suggestion at the moment is a lot of heavy playtesting, because nothing is as effective as playtesting when it comes to finding a point of balance.

If you'd like, I could play a few games this weekend. I'm off work (for once) so I'll have enough time to try these guys out. Of course I'll be using stand-in models, but I doubt it'll make any difference when it comes to battlefield performance.

If you guys decide that this is a good idea, let me know, and I'll post a summary of my experiences.

Firedrake28

IncubiLord
06-03-2006, 23:22
Please do so.

It might be nice to see how the Yaegothu do, if you'd like a suggestion for specific units to test. I'll bet they need a little tweaking that will become apparent with use.

Firedrake28
06-03-2006, 23:54
Alrighty. I'll make sure to include a unit of them for sure.

Also, I'll post my army list later on (maybe tonight) and if you guys think it looks decent, I'll play it.:)

Kate

x-esiv-4c
07-03-2006, 13:31
Please playtest as much as humanly possible. It really helps the balancing out of the 'dex ( sorry, been away for a while, busy week / weekend )

crashbang
07-03-2006, 16:41
most peeps been away for a while. hell once this topic even slipped to 4th top!:eek:

im gonna try out some stuff when i can. been a bit preoccupied at the mo.

x-esiv-4c
07-03-2006, 19:54
If people play test please make the report back as detailed as possible.
Thanks!

crashbang
09-03-2006, 17:16
anyone got stuff?

IncubiLord
09-03-2006, 18:03
Stuff? :evilgrin:

How about a Yaegothu Captain?

Yaegothu Captain: (HQ)
WS:5 BS:4 S:5 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:3 Ld:9 Sv:4+ Pts:50
Options: May take any items available from the armory.
Special: Independent Character
May use the Yaegothu Scouts' deployment rules if not wearing heavy armor.

I'm naming Xenarch Meltabombs "Attack Nanites" unless somebody wants another name.

The armory looks a little bare, so I've been thinking about more items, but nothing new yet.

I think we should have a short blurb on each unit, as this has become a standard for GW codices. These could either be compiled into a second column on the same page as their unit (like the Chaos 'dex) or be grouped together in a sort of fluff section (like the SM 'dex).

A first draft of the codex-format .doc has been mass-mailed. As before, if you did not get this e-mail respond as you see fit.

x-esiv-4c
09-03-2006, 19:09
Yeah, I think Incubilord sent out copies of the new 'dex but I didn't get the attachment.

Flame of Udun
09-03-2006, 20:01
Yeah I got the mail but no attachment.

crashbang
09-03-2006, 21:46
same here. mass mailing didnt work out great then:confused:

yaegothu captain looks cool, just problem of save, its supposed to be 2+surely?

i may make some wargear primarily for the yaegothu, equipment to help them deep strike, shooty weapons, stuff to make them better in combat maybe. i can also write up brief fluff for each unit if you please.

meanwhie ill find another website to show our wondrous creations...

EDIT:ah, now i understand why he has 4+ save. scratch armour comment.

Flame of Udun
09-03-2006, 22:03
Hey guys I need your opinion as I'm having a bit of a creative crisis.
Now should I :
a) Draw the Xenarch with potential conversion possibilities in mind or
b) Draw the Xenarch so that they would look great but be a pain to try and convert without serious scuplting skill?

For me personally (b) would be the better option as it doesn't tie my hands so much but your thoughts would be appreciated.

Firedrake28
09-03-2006, 22:42
I had a thought when I was reading the Codex. I saw that "The Swarms" were made up of small bird like creatures. Why not make an upgrade that allows them to become nothing more than a cloud of Nanites? This upgrade could allow them to get more attacks, and maybe have a different save. The biggest problem I see with this is modeling it... If anyone has any comments on this idea, I'd love to hear them!:)

Bmaxwell
09-03-2006, 23:12
I got the email but no attachment.

Well i think you might have to get some black wool and put it on a base.

tacky but thats the only way i can think about modeling them.

I allways thought they should be naites to begin with.

IncubiLord
09-03-2006, 23:33
Hmmmm...
Not the first time I've had a minor problem with yahoo.

Check the new message for an attachment.

@FoU:
Screw easy conversions! :p
Make it look good and we'll worry about making models later.

EDIT: Or maybe I was just testing the reaction! :evilgrin:

On the nanite swarm, you could make a wire shape and then glue a lot of silver glitter to it (an idea I heard of for a Necron Scarab swarm but haven't seen).

I prefer the idea of small robots, but not nano-sized. In game terms, there'd need to be some funky rules or an odd lack of rules that deal with how standard weapons affect sub-microscopic attack robots.

Bmaxwell
09-03-2006, 23:47
I think that i might have to raid my arts and crafts store for the xenarch just grab as many beads and gems i can and glue them toegther to be the xenarch but thats just my idea.

x-esiv-4c
10-03-2006, 13:28
Hell yeah, this looks like a codex! Excellent formatting there!

crashbang
10-03-2006, 18:09
very nice formatting there. only minor prob is its lack of colour, but that cant really be avoided as we lack anything to use as backing yet.

Yaegothu Wargear of the top of my head

Atomic nanite launcher (yes its a crap name) 15pts
this is a launcher which contains a AI projectile which once released, burrows far ahead then detonates, atomizing anything small and fragile, like soil. they may add +1 to their reserve roll

Lightning surge gauntlets 20pts
Close range weapons mounted on the arms, it emits a concentrated electrical surge, devastating to lightly armoured things whithin its range.

range:12 s:3 ap:4 notes: assault 4, +2 shots at half range

all i can think of now. as for any special rules for the units, i think they should be saved for an appendix Yaegothu list, maybe allowing the normal list to take them as 0-1 or something

Ill make some fluff for the Yaegothu soon btw. The idea just occured out of nowhere. Would you lot like anything in particular?

IncubiLord
10-03-2006, 19:33
There's the old pic of the helmet... :p

Most codices are pretty color-barren outside of the "look at our cool models!" section, but I could set a background for each page if we really wanted to (my Word skills know no bounds!).

Nanite launcher doesn't work - no reserve rolls with the way the Scouts are written.

I'm not sure about the LSGs: Maybe it should be a 12" Blast or Flamer template weapon (two different firing modes)?


i think they should be saved for an appendix Yaegothu list, maybe allowing the normal list to take them as 0-1 or something
I think that's a good idea.

Leave the current two units in the Xenarch because they're common, and make a handful more choices that fill out a small Yaegothu-only list. Then let the Xenarch take them as per the standard allies rules (0-1 HQ, Elite, FA, 0-2 Troops - Not allowed as compulsory).

On fluff: Whatever you want to write will be interesting. Even if somebody doesn't like it, the story will help solidify their image.

x-esiv-4c
10-03-2006, 20:05
Ahh yes, we could ditch the helmet picture and replace it with some of the concept art that FoU has been coming up with.

I'm liking the standard allies rules suggestion that you put forward Incubilord, lets run with it.

IncubiLord
11-03-2006, 00:50
GRAB AND RUN!!! :evilgrin:

Right, we currently have:
HQ - Yaegothu Captain (ally for Xenarch armies, or limited to low-points?)
ELITES - Yaegothu Brutes (termie-style unit)
FA - Yaegothu Scouts (Rule similar to Scouts USR, light gear)

How different are the Yaegothu forces when left to their own devices?
I could see them using Falcion Landers and Graviton Tanks with Yaegothu crew instead of cages, but most the rest the codex has to be Xenarch (for obvious reasons).

More units might be:
HQ) A Yaegothu Psyker-Chaplain - Low in the Xenarch religion, these guys still have some talent at manipulating energy. They would probably use the same powers as the Scion Shades (mostly for simplicity's sake), and are seen as religious leaders.

Elites) Augmented Yaegothu - Just think of the bionic enhancements the Xenarch's younger cousins might be capable of! These Yaegothu are amputees and the like that have been given an overhaul. I see them as the normal guy with a duplicate of his skeleton grafted on. It's kinda old-style Tyranids in appearance, but it's something different from 'Dreads, vets and mutants.

Troops) Basic Yaegothu - These guys wear a little more armor and carry a bigger gun than the Scouts, but they don't have the full combat rig that Brutes wear (3+ save).
Make a CC-oriented unit and a fire-support unit.

FA) Basic Yaegothu in a Falchion - this and the Scouts would give a few options, though giving the basic Yaegothu jet packs also has possibility.

HS) Brutes with heavy weapons options - 0-4 Rip Laser or Storm Arc bracer guys in a Brutes unit instead of the standard options.

That's running with it without doing 'dreads, bio-engineering, or native beasts...

EDIT: It's kinda starting to look like another MEQ, maybe this needs a re-think.

crashbang
12-03-2006, 15:58
give basic yaegothu infantry 4+ save, it'd take out that MEQ prob. id also consider making troops choices as desriable to take as the rest of the list, as if lots of troop are taken it takes out the possibility of an MEQ list completely.

yaegothu abilities

Experienced tunnelers: when deep striking, only roll one dice for scatter
Furious charge: obvoiusly
Fleet of foot: D3 inches extra movement, +2 to difficult terrain
Head-butt: extra attack on the charge
Upgraded guns: basic guns have +1 strength

Bmaxwell
12-03-2006, 16:07
well you want to make sure that people don;t automaticly want to take the Yaegothu as opossed to the Xenarch.

just to make them TOO good.

crashbang
12-03-2006, 16:22
also true. that did in fact only just come to mind. then again, ill always use xenarch over yaegothu because our xenarch pics (if we ever make a model) rock hard.

plus the yaegothu will have limited choices, so im not too worried.


EDIT: insane idea. rollcage Yaegothu! Them in a big ball which they would roll towards the enemy. it would have spikes and stythes on theside and guns, and could be quite cool.

and another. playing too much Resi evil lately, you could have beserk Yaegothu will huge chainsaws or claws! they would be independant, being unhinged and outcast.

and one last one, a FA choice could be Yaegothu with jump boots. like jump packs really but jump pack dont really fit for hulking musclely behemoths.

Bmaxwell
12-03-2006, 18:18
well how about this for Yeagothu

for each yeagothu unit u field (execpt in all Yeagotu army) you must have 2 xenarch units? or mabye have to have a certain number of xenarch before u can have Yeagothu?

crashbang
12-03-2006, 21:32
i would say every three. a good idea none the less.

Now that were onto the Yaegothu, what will be their playing style. we have the Xenarch (hit and run, give close range hell) Yaegothu could be now that i think of it a shock assault army (random idea i thought up 2 secs ago) with deep strikers, guys coming from reserve behind them like space wolf scouts, ambushers etc. I think this would be cool for an army, those dark eldar wouldnt know what hit em when they assault the yaegothu forests.

IncubiLord
13-03-2006, 05:05
give basic yaegothu infantry 4+ save, it'd take out that MEQ prob.
I was considering that, but then I'd like an explanation why they don't all deploy as well as the Yaegothu Scouts. This could boil down to special skills and gear that make Scouts better tunnellers than the others, but there should be some explanation of it.

I'd rather keep the Scouts as they are than add the "Experienced tunnelers:" rule, and I think doing both seems a bit odd.

Furious charge does seem fluffy for these guys. I assume we're talking about a veteran unit here (as making the whole army that way seems ott)?

Head-butt attacks...
I just don't know about this. Most enemies are wearing something that equates to the armor of a modern tank. I wouldn't encourage even an Ogryn-sized creature to test the density of its skull against that.

Let's keep fleet of foot: as the USR. Making a unique fleet rule goes against the grain of 40K.

No upgraded guns. If there were better versions, why wouldn't the Xenarch have them?

I have to question rollcage Yaegothu as well.
Ever seen a hamster in its exercise ball? Or the bit of American Gladiators where they put people in giant hamster balls? :) Adding anything to the exterior would seriously compromise mobility, making the things very cumbersome and unfit for battle.

Mmmmmm... Yaegie Berserkers....
This has Trollslayer potential. What if there is a chance that some Yaegothu have an impure energy? They could want to die so that their essence could be purified, but also feel compelled to atone for whatever caused this impurity. Perhaps they fear that their essence will be rejected from the cycle of rebirth if they do not prove its worth? This all kinda plays off my theory on where 40K souls come from, so if it makes absolutely no sense, look here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26342&page=2).

I like the idea of an ambush army. This could become something very unique.

As to limiting the units, I think playtesting will show that the standard 0-1HQ, 0-1E, 0-2T, 0-1FA after compulsory options stands up pretty well.

We can try the 3:1 ratio, but a basic Xenarch army is 1 HQ, 6 Troops and 3 Heavy Support (in terms of units), none of which can be Yaegothu. If we're talking FO slots, 3:1 seems a bit harsh (fill your Troops and your HS, and you can take 3 Yaegothu units). You'll note that I make the crazy assumption that people playing a shooty army will max out on their HS firepower units. :angel:

And rest assured, my dark kin would still have a very good time playing in the Yaegothu jungles. :evilgrin:

Firedrake28
13-03-2006, 14:32
Sorry I wasn't able to do any playtesting this weekend. I had fully intended to, but then I noticed how much I had to paint to finish my army for the tournament tomorrow...:eyebrows:

I've got an insane amount of Flesh Tearer Space Marines to paint, so... I'll be busy for all of today.:P I'll playtest once I get the chance.

Kate/Firedrake28

crashbang
13-03-2006, 15:30
good luck with tourney firedrake, and no biggie, i havent tested for a while either.

onto yaegothu style bit, yes the rollcage yaegothu was insane.

as for the ambushing style, some ideas

*space wolf scout reserve rules
*lictor ambush rules for something (would have to be expensive)
*deep strike for any unit that purchases the ability! (not great imo, but it could be restricted)
*infiltrators of course

so basically every appearing trick in the 40k book. but heres some more

ambush experts
the yaegothu are expert at co-ordinating their ambush tactics, striking at precisely the right time. roll just one dice for every unit hidden in reserve. when the reserve roll is successful, roll another dice for every yaegothu unit in reserve. On a 2+ that unit comes in.

could put in another rule about the leader needing to be on the board at the start for this to work.



on another topic, im halfway through another piece of fluff, this time for the Yaegothu and their slaughtering of their slave masters so long ago.

I may get another chance to test Xenarch this weekend, i mean may, nothings been arranged:rolleyes:

what do u guys most want me to do, fluff or more concept pics?

x-esiv-4c
13-03-2006, 16:08
Fluff for now. Please keep us updated on the battle-report.

No worries about play-testing firedrake.

I think we're going to be needing more Concept pics of the yaegothu, FoU think you can get something?

Flame of Udun
13-03-2006, 18:02
Hey all,
Sorry I've not been around, I've been off work with the flu and have had shed loads of stuff to catch up on. Anyway I'll see what I can do as soon as I get time.

crashbang
16-03-2006, 19:57
any updates anyone?

ill gladly make some more yaegothu unit rules if you would like me to peeps,ive got more than enough time nowadays

fluff will come, i promise!!

might get a match in this weekend, 1000pts my bet. ill test some yaegothu units.

the thought occurs that this topic is losing interest. therefore im going to find another website to ask opinions on the stuff we have so far.

Firedrake28
16-03-2006, 22:58
Alright. My tournament just ended today, so my attention can shift back to this for awhile. Sorry for my leave of absence. I'll get right on this ASAP.

IncubiLord
17-03-2006, 18:02
People in this thread tend to be pretty busy, off and on. It may seem like the project is losing interest, but this is just its cyclic nature.

Just the yesterday another Wych tried to kill me...

Current topics include:
Expanding the armory
Yaegothu units
Yaegothu fluff
Playtesting
And any feedback on the latest formatting of the codex other than "looks good" ;)

Pick a topic and start in on it!
Any new wargear ideas?
Any concepts you'd like to see done for Yaegie units
What do you think about the Yaegie Berserkers?
Do you like the "ambush army" concept that the Yaegies seem to be headed for?
Done any playtesting? If so, what happened and how much alcohol was involved? :evilgrin:

x-esiv-4c
17-03-2006, 18:17
Sorry, haven't been able to get a look in much at the Xenarch, been really busy with stuff! My concern lies in playtesting. Right now on paper this stuff looks good but how do they perform on the field?

Bmaxwell
17-03-2006, 20:27
Until april 1 i have a show which is takeing up allmost all of my energy at the moment allong with trying to keep the school grades up as well.

I like the idea that the yaegothu are ambush but at the same time I think they need to be powerful close combat monsters prehaps a low inative but packs quite a punch. I just think of them sort of like apes slow and powerful.

crashbang
18-03-2006, 19:21
the slow but powerful close combat type thing sounds good to me

ive tried to take a stab at some rules for an elite unit, a 'tainted one'/tainted yaegothu (prefer first more really)

WS-5 BS-3 S-5 T-4 W-2 I-4 A-2+D3 Ld-9 Sv-4+ Pts-?
weapons:heavy close combat weapon

SPECIAL RULES
fearless
furious charge
fleet of foot
independant character: the tainted one is independant and cannot join any unit. however he may come from reserve with a certain unit, seperating from them when they appear.

i like to think of it as a slightly unhinged yaegothu, its corrupt part tormenting it and driving it to purify itself in battle. so its basically a very vicious bloke, with high speed to reckon with :rolleyes: and a punch.

ive been trying to think of weapons it could have, several suggestions have been made, including:

claws
a two handed axe/halberd
a massive chainsword type thing

but i personnaly think that whatever it has they should be counted as the effective of heavy close combat weapon.


Slow and purposeful might also be a good skill for a shooty unit maybe btw. i just thought of this.
btw, sorry guys, no battle rep. really sorry, but i will chase some up and firedrake/kate/firekate, areu doing some soon?

IncubiLord
19-03-2006, 05:39
I'd say cut them down to 1 wound but allow 1-2 (maybe 3) as an Elites choice. I'm also not too fond of random attacks (that tends to be reserved more for crazy than rabid).

How about:
Yaegothu Berserkers: (Elites)
WS=5 BS=3 S=5 T=4 W=1 I=4 A=3 Ld=10 Sv=4+ Pts=40
Unit Size: 1-2 Berserkers. Each is a separate unit on the table.
Weapons: Each Berserkers wears a pair of Penance Bracers (Heavy CCW, may opt to make a single attack with 5+(D6x2) AP)
Special: Each Yaegothu Berserker is “associated” to a different Yaegothu squad when creating an army list. They will deploy in the same manner and at the same time as their associated unit though they will always operate independently.
. Driven – Yaegothu Berserkers may always make a 6” move in the assault phase
. Fearless, Furious Charge

We could drop the new weapon and do blade bracers + attack nanites (meltabombs), but that would make them better tank hunters than I think fits.

Also: Maybe the Brutes should get "Slow and Purposeful"?

crashbang
19-03-2006, 12:39
nice little switch on the berserkers there. im not sure about the brutes, a points drop to about 30pts would be in order if so, but theyd be able to fire those nice impulse rifles on the move, making them an excellent shooty unt and able to recieve units on the chin and beat them off too.

some random wargear for ya

Mole bot launcher 25pts

this weapon fires one rocket, containing a bot which, once hitting a vehicles armour, will burrow into its surface before emmiting massive elictrical surges into the insides of the tank

this weapon may be fired at any tank whithin 24 once per game, and requires line of sight. if it hits, all models transported inside the tank take a wound on 3+ (saves allowed) and in addition the tank takes D2 glancing hits



Stun packs 3pts per model

these packs will emit a sudden powerful shockwave, stunning any enemy in their path for the few brief second the yaegothu need to strike

may be used once per game when the carrying unit assaults an enemy unit. the enemy unit counts as having initiative 1, wheather they are in cover or not.



I have had an idea for them. they could, on inspiration from b-maxwell, be like gorillas, but be more lizardlike, for instance a more pronounced snout, more slender arms (VERY slightly more that is) claws instead, and a small tail. oh and claws on their feet. they could also be users of more advanced bionics than the marines, that could be quite cool, and would make them look primitive next to the xenarch but at the same time technologicly advanced in certain fields.

and with that i sign off

IncubiLord
19-03-2006, 16:53
but theyd be able to fire those nice impulse rifles on the move, making them an excellent shooty unt and able to recieve units on the chin and beat them off too.
Which is why I'm hesitant to lower their points cost. They lose a little on the charge but gain mobility with heavy weapons.

Mole bot launchers seem cool, but I'd like to give them a new name. Something like Culniv missile, with Culniv being the name of a fish on their homeworld that behaves similarly (vicious little predator that swims into open wounds and empties a gland full of neurotoxins then has food for a month).

Stun packs are a little too powerful, even at once per battle. Combined with the Yaegothu's unit sizes, high strength and power-weapon-armed sergeants and character, these would practically ensure that a large mob of Yaegothu could charge the deadliest CC troops and be pretty sure to win.



they could also be users of more advanced bionics than the marines, that could be quite cool
Have you been looking at my DE update? :eyebrows:
Cyber-grotesques are maybe a step further than we'd want to go, but the concept was Eldar-level bionics on Grotesques.

This is sort of what I was suggesting for Augmented Yaegothu, though. One of the things I was trying for was the concept that bionics were easy for the Yaegothu to make, so they weren't just used for replacement parts. If a Yaegie is seriously wounded, he may opt to go all out on the cyborg upgrades with a bionic reflection of his skeleton grafted onto his skin. They'd be faster, stronger, and tougher than normal Yaegothu, and maybe even have a slew of built-in goodies.

x-esiv-4c
21-03-2006, 13:14
Has anyone tried to model either a Xenarch or Yaegothu ?

crashbang
21-03-2006, 17:20
fraid not. such is the uniqueness and detail of these things that we are all at a loss as to how. well need someone to look around sites for good pieces, or to make one from scratch. personally i think scratch building would be better, but do any of us know how to do this??

yaegothu ambush infantry 20-25pts

ws-3 bs-3 s-5 t-4 w-1 i-2 a-1/2? ld-7 sv- 3+/4+?
no:5-10

weapons: dart bracers
options: half may take heavy close combat weapons for +3pts each (rounded up)
one may be upgraded to sargeant (+7pts) gains +1 attack and may choose from the armoury.

may have that story on later

EDIT: and here it is. can be edited more to more suit xenarch ways for later but for now here it is, the Yaegothus backlash.

Natures Justice

Deep in the Sanctuary for the Yaegothu, unvisited and deserted for years, a complex of buildings and shacks existed, completely hidden from the eyes of the Xenarch society. Round domes, technologically advanced, contrasted heavily with the crude shacks next to them, the wood rotting, many close to collapse.

Not that the sites owners cared much about these buildings, they were for the workers.

One of these owners over the camp was currently asleep, dreaming about his rise to power and glory once he returned to Xenarch society, brimming with tradable materials that the Yaegothu had mined. His plan was simple, bring the Yaegothu back to sell as ‘workers’ and use the rest for tradable materials. He would rise through society, work his way into its innards, and earn enough money to live out his life in luxury. Of course, the other owners were also thinking along the same lines, and to a lesser extent the sites guards also had ideas to a lesser extent. Their dreams all followed the same lines.
Of course no of them could know that these dreams would be grinded into the dust soon. They never thought that the natural live they had exploited would ever fight back.

The handful of Yaegothu were still working in the fields late at night, their slow metabolism enabling them to work for long periods. They could even work until after the guards had retired to the towers to guard. Which they would use to their advantage.

The Yaegothu did have tools, given to them by the site owners. They used them to scour the soil, extracting anything valuable within the soft ground. But they had also made their own tools. Looking to see if the guards had gone, the entire party went into action simultaneously. Dropping their useless ground scouring tools, they dropped to their knees, picking up out of the soil blades that glistened in the moonlight, and big sheets of the material they had been forced to mine. What neither the site owners or guards had discovered was that they had been crafting their own weapons of war during the rare breaks they had, turning the metals they has stolen into sheets of armour to cover their chests and back. And possibly their most deadly weapon was their leader, who had thought of the plan in the first place.

The guard, having just dispatched the message that the Yaegothu were still working, sidled up the tower stair. He wondered what his future would be after the work was finished here. He was well paid, he could hopefully live out his live in peace. Then again, he could always come out here again. He got comfy quarters, plenty to do on days off, and he got to boss the scum below about. The guard moved up into the watch point of the tower.
And then it hit him.
A massive fist rammed into the back of the guard’s head, stunning him for a moment. That was all the assailant needed, picking the guard up and lobbing him head first out of the window. The guard seemed suspended for a second, just flying, before, falling to smash into the soil below.

The guard, all his breath knocked out of him, had just enough time to feel shock before, a five foot blade, crude but no less deadly for it rammed into his stomach. The guard had just enough time to feel shock before his vital organs ceased to function.

The workers, having killed their only obstacle into the camp, moved onwards.

During the day, security was considered a top priority on the site. The guards were deployed at all times, only occasionally stopping for the breaks that the yaegothu used to make their weapons. But at night there were only a quarter of the guards on duty, powered only by the provisions picked to keep them awake throughout the night. And the yaegothu had used certain more agile workers in their party to find the path of least resistance. Just two guards stood in their way to the guardhouse.

This guard, unlike the other recently deceased xenarch, was an experienced fighter, and was an experienced guard. He knew when something wasn’t right, and this instinct burrowed its way into his brain now. The guard sniffed the air, detecting traces of blood. Someone was hurt, or dead. Weather it was a guard or a slave that had tried to attack him he didn’t know, but it was worth investigating. He jogged towards the source of the smell, instantly sighting figures in the tower. The guard, growled, and moved towards the steps. Many of these scum had fallen before him, and this would be no different.
Suddenly he stopped in his tracks, and then fell to his knees. In the dark he had never noticed the hulking shape beneath the stairs, which had just rammed a blood-coated sword straight through the stairs. Just as that guard died, the second was also dispatched, vaporised by the weapons they had created to protect them selves. Up in the tower, The leader smiled slightly.

Revenge would be arranged tonight, the Yaegothu said to himself in bad xenarch, as he watched two of his fellows move towards the stores, while the others prepared the guard barracks for the morning to come.



The next morning, another inexperienced guard woke early, straightening up and moving to the window. A dead guard lay outside, his skin mutilated, legs bent awkwardly. Horrified by the brutality, the guard reacted instantly nonetheless, activating a siren in the centre of that particular barracks. That siren awakened every guard simultaneously, but silently, thus ensuring no one ever knew they had raised an alarm. Hundreds of guards streamed out of their barracks to confront any threat.

At least they almost did.
The Yaegothu had to make sure that there was little if any resistance when they took back this place, the forest their home. They had regularly used huge explosives, given to them by their oppressors to blow craters into the ground, creating new places to excavate, the xenarch activating them for a certain time, and then sending doomed Yaegothu to lay it. The xenarch obviously never thought their slaves would figure out how to activate them, let alone set certain time frames.

The first guards to go out of their barracks ran straight through a trip wire, never realising it was there.
The barracks almost simultaneous explosion could be heared on the opposite continent, though many mistook it for a small earthquake.

The Yaegothu leader now strolled through the centre of the command in the forest, where the remaining cruel xenarch stayed. Kicking through a slide metal door like it was paper, he regarded the weak beings stood there, as 4 of his brothers flanked him
“This camp ours now” He spoke with barely controlled hatred, unslinging the sword that had gotten them into the camp, coming free easily from its bonds. “No place for tyrants here anymore” As he moved forward towards the next of his victims.

x-esiv-4c
21-03-2006, 17:30
To me something doesn't sit right...They are ambushers yet they suffer from a low initiative, I would suggest an armour save of 4+ however.

IncubiLord
21-03-2006, 18:37
Remember that the initial concept for these guys is something akin to a crocodile or alligator. They are generally slow, but capable of bursts of activity.

While you could outmaneuver the Yaegothu in a straight fight, if you were to wander close by without noticing them they could lunge forward and have you in a death-grip which you would not escape.

Their pack hunting was likely similar to that of baboons, with most the pack moving into good ambush positions and then a "herder" of sorts "accidentally" missing an ambush and trying to catch a meal anyways. When the prey creatures bolt in the opposite direction, its right into the waiting ambushes of the other pack members.

With crashbang's permission, I'd like to modify the story a bit, to offer a different take upon the incident without a completely different write-up. For starters, 5' blades and sheet metal armor seem a bit hard to conceal to me, and a guy tossed out a window is likely to scream as he falls, imo.

And yeah, I think the consensus is 4+ armor for basic Yaegies.

crashbang
21-03-2006, 18:43
low initaitive just means they are slow to strike, dosnt control their battleplan...in theory. well make it work. so one vote to 4+ so far.

IncubiLord
21-03-2006, 19:09
Two for 4+ save.

I'm anti-MEQ (but pro-'Mech! Wait, that's a different topic altogether...).

@crashbang: Would you mind if I had a go at re-writing the backlash story? I won't cut up and modify it to fit my own ideas if you'd rather I start from scratch.

crashbang
21-03-2006, 19:28
@crashbang: Would you mind if I had a go at re-writing the backlash story? I won't cut up and modify it to fit my own ideas if you'd rather I start from scratch.


shred away. its just a lil concept story any ways

IncubiLord
21-03-2006, 21:11
Then here comes an alternative.

crashbang
22-03-2006, 16:03
fantastic stuff there. when FoU turns up he could put it into the fluff section on blog.

IncubiLord
22-03-2006, 20:49
Actually, I could do that.

I just tend to leave things sitting in the thread for so long that FoU decides to put it up himself.

What would our Augmented Yaegothu be like?
I see the implants as maybe +1 to S, T, and Save as well as Feel No Pain. S & T should be pretty obvious, Save would be because more of them is covered in metal, and FNP would be an expansion on the basic "bionics = invulnerable save" concept.

Do we want to give them an extra Attack like the Orky Bionik Arm?

crashbang
22-03-2006, 21:15
hmmm ,the tin ones...

general stats upgrades sound good, but i feel they nee something else. they need something to seperate them from the brutes. strange thing is they are, no doubting different, but.. theyre not that different, if you understand what i mean..not even sure i understand myself here :eyebrows:

the augmented ones could be faster, fleet of foot maybe, a new idea for ya, augmented blade bracers (count as a great weapon and a heavy close combat weapon meshed into one) the augmented ones could be the retinue perhaps? they could deep strike (drills of some kind) or have some shroud which makes tergetiing them harder (nightfight) ah..what you can do with bionical things.

meanwhile an idea for the ambush infantry, to get the general theme in there

*1 in 2 yaegothu ambush infantry may take special reserves (+so many points) or ambush if they are at their minimun unit size (+so many again)

*the scouting yaegothu could use the ambush rules instead of they choose to

*in beastmen type style, the commander must be on the board for the ambushing to work. maybe some kind of bonus?

*i would suggest the same type of troop type thing as the xenarch (2 troop choices per one) but smaller units, but this is least of my ideas.

anyway, im off now. btw the troop yaegothu are a page back, see what you think, and comment on what stats should be changed etc.

IncubiLord
22-03-2006, 21:44
Here's how I'm reading that entry:

Yaegothu Ambush Infantry (Troops)
WS=3 BS=3 S=5 T=4 W=1 I=2 A=2 Ld=7 Sv=4+ Pts=20
Unit Size: 5-10 Yaegothu.
Weapons: Dart Bracers (Not SEEKER Dart bracers, something new?) - one each, right?
Options: Up to half (rounded up) may take heavy close combat weapons for +3pts each.
Character: One may be upgraded to a Yaegothu Sergeant for +7 points. He gains +1 Attack, and gains access to the armory.

I don't like their Ld being so low, maybe bump the Sergeant's cost a bit and have the squad be Ld 8 with a Sgt?
The IG get this with their Vet. Sgt.'s.

Response to the suggestions in the last post will follow.

Flame of Udun
22-03-2006, 22:21
Boo!

Hello guys, fear not I'm still here, I'm just floating around these days as I have much work to do and unfortunately very little time for Xenarch atm :( which bums me out rather badly but I will try and post something properly soon I promise :D
Do you want me to stick that stuff up on the blog? BTW I like the way things are going for the Yaegothu, that fluff sounds cool but does need some grammar checking done.
Anyway, fear not I'm still here! If you guys neeed anything just shout and I'll do what I can as soon as I possibly can!

FoU

IncubiLord
22-03-2006, 23:53
Yes, there were a handful of typos for the Blood God there.
No worries on getting it into the blog, if there's no big objections from the others over the next day or so I'll get my lazy rear moving and clean it up then move it over.

If you'd expand a bit on what rules you think fit for "ambush" and "special reserve", I'll get back to them, but I think it would be better to set up a secondary troops choice that would take one of these options and wouldn't count against a Yaegothu FOS than to make the Yaegie have doubled units. It would make them less useful as allied units (2 full-size Yaegie squads as optional troops would be fine, but 4 seems OTT).

I too have been thinking that the Yaegie Commander should have a couple of "Army Perk" special rules. +1 to Reserve rolls (if that's how the ambush and special reserve work) could be nice without being overpowering.

I was also thinking that maybe his presence on the board grants all other Yaegie models +1 Ld. Not as good as SM commanders, but he's got some nice comms gear, and it should see some use.

Here comes a crazy stab at the Augmented Yaegothu:

Augmented Yaegothu: (Elites)
WS=4 BS=3 S=6 T=4 W=1 I=3 A=3 Ld=8 Sv=4+ Pts=30
Unit Size: 3-6 Augmented.
Weapons: Each Augmented is equipped with a number of combat attachments which function as a Charge Pistol and a Powerblade Bracer.
Options: Each Augmented may be upgraded with an Optimized Targeting Array, Network Spine, Attack Nanites, and/or Point Defense Weapons (on automatic hit at I6, S3+D3, saves allowed) at +5 pts/option.
. Up to two may be armed with a Rebuilt Arm (Thunder Hammer) at +15, or Cyborg Tail (another Charge Pistol, makes it twin-linked and adds +1 Attack) +15.
Character: One may be upgraded to a Yaegothu Sergeant for +10 points. He gains +1 Attack, and gains access to the armory.
Special: Fleet, Feel No Pain.

crashbang
23-03-2006, 17:33
the augmented yaegothu r a bit underpriced for what they do perhaps

the skill for commander sounds good to me. fits ambushers

the troop choice, dart bracers...

range:18 s:4 ap:- notes:assault 1?

new unit for troops... perhaps a small unit that can take all sorts of stuff which allows them to take on literally anything, but not excel against any particular thing. that could be interesting for a troops choice. throw in ambush/special reserves and its set.

btw, i think that the yaegothu should, fluff wise be the grey side of the xenarch empire. whereas xenarch are merciful to surrendering enemies, the enslavement of the yaegothu will probbaly have made them less tolerant of ememies, explaining the total annialation of the space marine company in some of our fluff. could be cool

might get to do the first test of yaegothu units this weekend btw. finally they can get a run.

Flame of Udun
26-03-2006, 22:23
Hey guys,
Here is the latest Yaegothu concept piece fresh from my graphics tablet. Hope you guys like it.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/Hellboy555/Design%20Gubbinz/Concept1.jpg

Hopefully I'll have some more stuff soon but I'm rather busy at the mo (in case you hadn't guessed!)
Anyway, enjoi
FoU

x-esiv-4c
27-03-2006, 12:47
I think that concept sketch works for me!
Sorry I haven't been able to participate much. Thesis work is getting really busy. I figured once we have this Yaegothu thing sorted out and we get some playtesting done, we can wrap this 'dex up!

Flame of Udun
27-03-2006, 16:37
Hey X, pleased you like it mate, any comments or crits?

crashbang
27-03-2006, 18:21
nice concept sketch, i dont see any problems.

back onto xenarch, people around agree that xenarch infantry could get their assault 2 weapons back...if they go up by 3 points. im perfectly fine with this (assault 1 never really suited them imo) but what about u guys?


meanwhile, yaegothu army list..anyone wanna think up unit ideas?

IncubiLord
30-03-2006, 20:27
I don't have a problem with making the basic troops more shooty.

More for the Yaegie army:

Added Captain's special rules.
Added the War Priest.
Increased price of the Augmented by 5 points.
Decreased Ambush Infantry's squad size to 3-8, gave their Sgt +1 Ld, and added rules for their ambush units.
Modified the Ambush Infantry's Dart Bracers from the suggested S4 to S-, wounds on a 4+.
Moved Berzerkers to Fast Attack.
Added Heavy Support Brutes.
Made Brutes Slow and Purposeful.

We need to add Attack Nanites and the Yaegie heavy armor to the Armory.
As Brutes are essentially a terminator unit, should they get a 5+ (or 6+) Invulnerable save?

Maybe add the Graviton Tank as a HS choice for the Yaegies as well, but that's my take on it atm.

x-esiv-4c
30-03-2006, 21:08
sweet, can someone throw this onto the project site?

crashbang
31-03-2006, 13:13
yay, weve got a list for the big uns!

ill try and playtest that list when possible. i now have alot of free time due to easter holidays, so ill see what they can do.

thoughts occuring at mo

-priest may be a bit powerful, with a S5 force weapon and all.
-i dont think brutes should have the 5+ invunerable. makes em too much like termies imo, and probably be a bit underpriced into the bargain.

apart from that good. we could make one bionic upgrade avaidible to each character, thatd be interesting

now, next yaegothu troops choice off the top of my head

Yaegothu hurricane squad (0-2) TROOPS, must have at least one units of yaegothu ambush troops for every one of these squads

pts-30 ws-4 bs-4 s-5 t-4 w-1 i-3 a-2 ld-8 sv-4+
no:2-4
weapons:dart bracers, poisonblade bracer (wounds anything on 4+ or better)
options:2 may exchange their dart bracers for a rip laser (+15pts) or a powerblade bracer (+15pts)
the squad may be upgraded to carry attack nanites (+5pts)
1 may be upgraded to a yaegothu sargeant (+10pts). he may pick from the armoury

special rules
ambush (lictor)

a small squad, used correctly can do plenty of damage to anything, used badly will be killed like flys. what do you think?

IncubiLord
01-04-2006, 03:38
Seems too good a deal for min-max armies.

You could take 2 Yaegies at 50 points for each troops choice, and toss on up to 30 points of gear for each pair to make them show up and rip one thing to bits then serve as an excellent, inexpensive fire magnet.

Better yet, just take the sgt. and tool him up with CC wargear. This unit is an ideal hero-delivery system.

I like the base concept, but it needs some tweaking.

First of all, that's more options than the squad can possibly take (2 rip lasers + 2 powerblades + 2 Attack Nanites + 1 Sgt = 7 guys in a 4-man squad).

I'd say that they should get 0-2 with rip lasers or powerblades, the squad could take nanites (because grenades are unit options), and maybe ditch the Sgt.

Yeah, the Priest's force weapon may be OTT, he's still a rough concept.

I too think that adding the bionics to the Armory would be cool. There's no reason the fully-mechanical Xenarch couldn't have these upgrades for characters either...

crashbang
01-04-2006, 08:24
ive edited the hurricane squad rules so that theyre less exploitable, and theyre now more expensive so that people will consider actually throwing them into combat.

i have another pic, after soo long. its a shattered, but it looks a bit harmless at the moment, although i in particular like the bits it has floating around it, and its bony parts.

comments?

crashbang
03-04-2006, 11:26
hi again. heres is 2nd pic for shattered.


http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/crash370/?action=view&current=shattered2.jpg

crashbang
05-04-2006, 10:03
hi all

i should be getting a test match this week or next, heres the lists ill probs use

Yaegothu Captain
Power Saw Glove
Charge pistol
Absorbtion field 97pts

4 Augmented Yaegothu
Network spine
2 with cyborg tail 150pts

5 Ambush infantry
3 heavy close combat weapons
Sargeant, powerblade bracer 129pts

4 Ambush infantry
2 heavy close combat weapons
Sargeant, powerblade bracer 106pts

2*6 Ambush infantry
as above
infiltrate 310pts

2*6 Scouts
all heavy close combat weapons
sargeant, power saw glove 300pts

2 Berserkers 80pts
*attached to scout squads

3 firestorm brutes
rip lasers 165pts

3 fire storm brutes 165pts
rip lasers

total 1502pts

im hoping the firepower will topple big things and vehicles, while the rest gets in from all directions and does what they do best. the scouts will go in first and sow chaos in their lines

x-esiv-4c
05-04-2006, 14:08
looks like a good list. Just make sure that when you play try to get a report to us that is as detailed as possible.

Bmaxwell
05-04-2006, 16:16
Hey every one Im finally back so if theres any fluff you want me to wirte up Just give me a holler.

crashbang
05-04-2006, 18:33
a thought occured while writing this. maybe we should have another thread here on warse- i mean wardwarf for those who dont cycle through the 100 plus pages to find out what were on about. should i set this up?

x-esiv-4c
05-04-2006, 19:10
Yeah, lets go for it...
Loads of info that has been gone through, perhaps a tidy-up would be a good idea.

Bmaxwell
05-04-2006, 19:23
I say go for it. Is there a way we could get a Mod to make it a sticky? Would that be asking for to much?

crashbang
05-04-2006, 20:16
right, ill make topic then. gather more people to the cause....bwahahahaha:rolleyes:

crashbang
06-04-2006, 20:13
btw, im still gonna use this topic to send in reports. theres no use clogging up a new topic for those who have no idea what they are about.

im starting to write some short fluff to go with the army list selections. this should be finished relatively soonish, but anyone who wants to help go ahead, since my fluff writing skills arent perfect.

Flame of Udun
06-04-2006, 22:49
I notice nobody has updated the blog in a while do you want me to post the new info on the Yaegs to the blog?

Bmaxwell
06-04-2006, 23:04
that would be a good idea flame.

crashbang
07-04-2006, 21:33
match on sunday hopefully. ill have fluff for some units by end of easter break

crashbang
09-04-2006, 07:41
some fluff for the prophetic zero. fell free to shred and repair (re-do basically)

PROTHETIC ZERO
The Prophetic Zero, unlike the other xenarch leaders, is more self relying, preffering to bank on his blade and his hand to hand skills to win battles. This is far from unwise however- Zeros are unparreled among the xenarch in hand to hand, and its armour and the technology of the xenarch make him the untimate bane of any enemiy who underestimates its abilities.

In present xenarch society, Zeros are responsible for laying to rest the broken armour of fallen xenarch, summoning the soul of the xenarch into the spire of that world, or bringing back those who cling to their life to exist in shattered soul cages. These tasks make the Zeros grim and considerably less toerant towards enemies, taking pleasure in the terror of an enemy, and sometimes breaking the xenarch conduct of battle and offering no mercy to a foe. None-the-less, the zeros are deadly warriors, and a powerful leader for the xenarch.


and a small piece for general fluff

'The xenarch army is not unlike the armour a xenarch wears. powerful, but once parts are damaged, it is easier to find a weak point. The key to avoiding this to simply make sure they find it hard to attack the armour in the first place'

crashbang
09-04-2006, 21:30
BATTLE REPORT!!!

i played a game, this time with the tyranids, at 1500pts. the result? :( :cries: :confused: you may wanna sit down for this...

it was a complete, utter, no exception slaughter to the tyranids. the death count for the alien fiends was so low that a nursery child could count the models on his fingers, nearly that is, i did manage to kill slightly more than 10 models. in return, the entire yaegothu force was massacred by turn 4, nothing even surviving to flee the table.
now for a blow by blow account of the various units fates

yaegothu captain: did little until turn 3, when he assaulted a ravener unit, where one of the raveners simply turned round and skewered the charging yaegothu on its claws. kills: none

augmented yaegothu: charged in turn three and nearly wiped out a small unit of gaunts (losing two in the process:eek: ) before being slaughtered by a genestealer charge. kills: 7 hormagaunts

ambush infantry: welll..one unit wounded the tyrant, another wiped out 2 raveners in combat, and the other two....well they died slightly.
kills: 2 raveners (from 21 of them....oh sweet lord)

scouts with berserkers: er... i have to admit i took a gamble here. i depp struck them in front of his left flank, hoping to grab the first turn and kill some gribbley stuff. i rolled a 5 for first turn, he rolled...a 6. things went problematic from there. a bright side was that one of his units of gaunts charged the one reamining scout from devourer related carnage, and did an odd rain dance for two turn while the scout sliced at them.
kills: erm... 2 hormagaunts

firestorms: oh the horror...they decided to pick on the winged tyrant that was dallying around. it was on two wounds when one squad inflicted three hits and then managed to roll snake-eyes and cause one wound (although one killed a lictor later on in a one on one combat) the other squad was eaten by raveners.
kills:lictor....what u expected more??


mates comment, deathorglory (remember the guy who posted once? hes back!!)

*right well its difficult to know where to begin.......for a start one of the main things is that although aumented yaegothou are psychopathically powerful and quite impressed me the yaegothou really need some form of big unit (either at least one tank or, if not a tank, then some big uber guy).

*most of the yaegothou units are, in my opinion way over points but i will pick on the ones that are most over points. the ambush infantry being my prime targets. I would suggest they are 16 points as compared to marines, they have better strength, guns and attacks, but worse armour, intiative, ballistic skill and weapon skill, in fact make that 15 points lol. scouts er........wtf?? they have better weapon skill, leadership and a better ability yet costs 5 points less than ambush infantry.

back to crash

for a last word, i think that the yaegothyu do need to be tougher to justify their cost, and maybe be better skill wise. toughness 5 might be good, would justify their cost and make them more unique.
a big beastie might be good, maybe a beast goaded along by herders, or a structure pulled by some kind of beast.

IncubiLord
10-04-2006, 04:23
If your friend is willing, play the same game with all Yaegies at T5 and see how that works (points will still need to be tweaked).

Lets add the Graviton Tank to the list as a HS option.

How about a Yaegie 'Dread?
Don't use the same fluff as other 'Dreads, but a Yaegothu that is encased a robotic armor suit could be nasty.

Maybe:
Yaegothu Cybernetic Symbiote: (Elites)
WS:5 BS:4 S:6/10 FA:12 SA:11 RA:10 I:3 A:2/3 Pts=125
Type: Agile Walker
Weapons: 2 Power Saw Gloves each with a built-in Charge Rifles*.
Special: Downgrades any "Crew Stunned" result to "Crew Shaken"
. Each turn, the repair systems will negate one "Armament Destroyed" or "Immobilized" result on a 5+.

* Charge Rifle (low) = Range:18" S:3 AP:5 Assault 3
* Charge Rifle (high) = Range:18" S:5 AP:3 Assault 1

If this is used as is, we may want to (at least) add the option of taking Charge Rifles to a unit in the Xenarch list.

x-esiv-4c
10-04-2006, 14:53
Ok interesting report Crashbang.
Do you think that the battle went bad because of poor generalmanship ( no offense intended ) or that the stats need revision?

Thanks for the detailed report! This is what will give the 'dex the edge it needs.

crashbang
10-04-2006, 16:36
a bit of both. the gamble was a horrendous mistake, but a 160pt unit shouldnt really fall in one turn to raveners devourers, and this was all the way across the army. my luck didnt really help either, but overall some units do need an upgrade.

Deathorglory
10-04-2006, 20:00
well frankly once the first turn was lost he was utterly stuffed the nids just swarmed fowards and ate everything, everything that wasn't immediately destroyed was then subject to hyper devourer bombardment (multiple carnifexs and tyrant with devourers) everything that was not hidden from sight in the first turn was obliterated, then it was just a matter of sweeping foward and yumming up the rest, and as for the big beastie i suggested how about some form of giant yet primitive yaegothou beastie (similar style to the kroot beast etc)

also you should note i have an extensive fluff knowledge and i have some fluff sources (i can't remember what they are in lol as over the years i have read a lot but can't remember what things are in what books) for the xenarch for example (i don't know if you know this i'm not gonna look thought 120 odd pages lol) they make extensive use of some of the most lethal poisons in the galaxy i don't beleive that you have included any poisons in the xenarch rules as of yet, oh also the yaegothou need at least one other HQ choice (a 3 wound one) as that is basically a compulsory for any list perhaps a high preist and war leader or whatever etc

edit: ok i have had a thought perhaps i could try and make a basic xenarch troop suit on 3ds max (the program used to make the Dawn of War models) and then animate it so you can get a feel for its look and how it moves i'm thinking a sort of stiff, robotic fashion with kinda squat movements eiter that or a sort of implacable advance style movement though if i do do this you'll have to bear with me as i am very new to modelling so it might take a while........

crashbang
12-04-2006, 16:23
thatd be good death, plse make suit.

im thinking of making some fluff based on the near destruction of the xenarch homeworld by nids (yes it was partly inspired by the massacre the other day:rolleyes: ) and the intervention of the spire. one comment about making the spire mysterious im going to try and add into it. i may also make some fluff about the spires, xenarch and yaegothu origins. (i have a few ideas which would need some serious considering to even includem, as they have some wierd ideas:evilgrin: )

crashbang
16-04-2006, 07:46
one piece is in progress already for an update. meanwhile, hopefully death is making a special character. if not, could one of you do it? im shockingly tied up at the moment, wierd considering its my holiday:confused:

Bmaxwell
16-04-2006, 11:27
I'll make a special character let me think of a conecpt

crashbang
16-04-2006, 17:24
here is the first installment of the story. there will probably be about 5 installments, largely cause im short on time to do the rest currently

THE BATTLE FOR THE FIRST SPIRE

Of all the battles the xenarch have fought, and the enemies they and their Yaegohthu allies have faced, only one has earned their eternal hatred. A race which threatened the xenarchs very existence, a souless and merciless enemy which blighted the xenarch homeworld in the northern rim.

A splinter fleet of hive fleet leviathan had become isolated from its fleet, and instead now moved with astonishing speed towards the homeworld of the first and greatest spire in the xenarch empire.

On the planet itself, the souls of the xenarhc, though locked in their soul cages, felt a terrible forboding, a sense that something was coming, and that it would bring death and despair to their vibrant planet.
The prothetic deep's who scanned the space surrounding
their homeworld could suddenly do so no longer, their inner eye blackened out. just before their sight was lost however, they saw a cluster of black shiny objects in spce closing in on them. And then the hope of the world, the spire in the prime city of Larizaro, began to dim
dimming, the hopes of the xenarch fading with it.

The commanders and leaders of the cities and Yaegothu tribes however, did not let morale down before they knew what it was, and made two assumtions: either it was a meteor storm,or it was an invasion fleet inbound on them. Either way they had to take action. An invasion fleet would bring death in the millions, as would a meteor storm. So they had
to reduce the possible damage from both.

All non armed xenarch would be evacuated from the small towns, to the larger cities where the underground would protect them from meteors or an invasion fleet if need be.
The yaegothu would also go down to their burrowed underworld if meteors came, and defend their homeland in the case of any invaders. The Yaegothu were stiil lead by the Cheiftain
only known as nameless, who, many years on had grown in veterancy from many wars on other planets, and whose tactics had adapted around ambushes, traps and sabotage. The yaegothu were at their prime, thousands of them inhabiting the western continent, and their new found efficientcy in bionics leading to new and more powerful troops. The yaegothu were never in better shape, even without the defences that Lun Narias and Larizaro used.

The final preperations in the cities were conducted by the army commanders, but in particular the prothetic eden Elfaria in Larizaro. The xenarhc said she could bring peace to more then just the constructs she controlled, and she inspired the city, bringing around the rumour that it
was only she that prevented the spire from fading completely. In the last days, Larizaro was in the total belief they would live out what was coming thanks to Elfarias influence.

Then on the sixth day of the frenzied preperation of defences and undeground, the sky over the western continent turned black with a shower of mythetic spores....

To be continued....


NEXT INSTALLMENT The yaegothu bring battle to the tyranids, but as time goes on they are
forced back towards the coast. can nameless' forces delay the tyranids long enough to evacuate the western continent?