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View Full Version : I've been away from WHFB for about 4 years now- what's the game like now?



Stuffburger
17-11-2014, 05:10
Several years back I put away my orcs, paints and brushes for a variety of reasons- the overall cash grabbiness of 8th edition, time constraints, and a general feeling of burnout towards the hobby to name a few. I painted my first model in years the other day and might get back into Warhammer. I just would like to know the overall state of Fantasy at the moment and GW in general- presumably an act of God hasn't occurred yet and model prices are still astronomical, but what else is a hot topic right now? Is 9th edition on the horizon? Anything happen to Orcs? New Armies?

Thanks guys.

Spiney Norman
17-11-2014, 07:09
9th edition is apparently on the horizon, though there are no firm rumours on what changes it will bring (though the direction 40k has taken over the last four years does not bode at all well).

Against many expectations 8th edition has been brilliant, even those who had issues with the core rules probably notice that it has the most balanced set of army books of the last 4 editions, and other than the armies that have yet to receive their update (Bretonnians and Beastmen, skaven too although their book is still very competitive) most of the armies compete on a level field.

Over the last few months GW has released a series of books advancing the wfb timeline in a campaign called the "End times" which is giving the game balance a bit of a battering by introducing horribly overpowered characters to certain armies (like Nagash and Karl Franz on steroids).

Still Standing
17-11-2014, 10:20
Although I am only just getting back into WFB myself, I agree with Norman's view. I do feel that Nagash and Karl Franz (and co) are intended for more fun games, so will only appear (outside of tournaments) when you've arranged such a match. Tournaments will self regulate and comp themselves given time.

MOMUS
17-11-2014, 17:10
8th is a lot less 'cash grabby', now most books are updated the age of the horde is over. Very few armies field them and usually it's restricted to a single unit.
Armies that are competitive tend to be swift and/or heavily armoured. that said, all books are pretty well balanced... Some more than others.

End times has thrown everything around, armies that can bring powerful characters have got a boost, other books have kinda been left behind. If you are undead or chaos (and perhaps now elf) inclined then you are guna be spoilt.

Askari
17-11-2014, 18:22
Genuinely think it's the best it's ever been.

8th Edition plays very nicely, and is more or less balanced in an overall sense (internal balance still problematic in a fair few books).
The End Times stuff is very nice indeed, and I quite like the background shake-up it's creating so far.

m1acca1551
17-11-2014, 23:52
Much better, WFB is probably in its best way for a long time, better rules, great miniatures for the most part and the End Times shake up. This alone has got me back into the mood to make an undead legion out of VC.

Yeah the prices really suck, and there the power gamer element still there but there are ways around that.

ShruikhanTK
17-11-2014, 23:59
The game is amazing right now, come back! I know its short...but trust me.

Fighting Newfoundlander
18-11-2014, 00:23
The game is awesome. Haven't had any taste of the End Times things, but the main army books have all been great. If you ever liked Warhammer, get in now. Even if 9th sucks, I think many people will be playing 8th for a long time to come. Well, especially if 9th sucks, but even if it's decent I guess :p If 9th turns out to be 8.5 with the bugs worked out (which rumors suggest won't be the case) the game would be in perfect.

People do still use hoards though. Not like they used to, but you do have to be ready to deal with one decent hoard and maybe a cheepo one as well. Certainly don't be surprised if the OnG player brings lots of Orcs and Goblins some in hoard form :evilgrin:

Just Tony
18-11-2014, 07:47
If the new End Times books are any indication, it's going back to 5th Ed. without the flying high.

Sexiest_hero
18-11-2014, 10:37
It's nothing like 5th, nor will it ever be.

Juicy21
18-11-2014, 14:54
Best time of warhammer fantasy in a long time!! i enjoy it so mutch! And trust me its no where near 5th!

Just Tony
19-11-2014, 00:05
It's nothing like 5th, nor will it ever be.


Best time of warhammer fantasy in a long time!! i enjoy it so mutch! And trust me its no where near 5th!

Let's see:

We're back to percentages with exploitable levels
We're back to Winds of Magic, but with dice
Thanks to End Times, we're back to Herohammer
Also, we're back to imbalanced Lord percentages

Seriously, all we need is Allies percentages and Flying High and we'll be right back to 5th.

Sexiest_hero
19-11-2014, 01:42
Not even Karl Franz ascended can hang with a tooled up lord from 5th, Hell he has trouble dealing with a horde and those lords could take on whole armies easy. The winds are not nearly so bad. Again I think you are over stating things. I don't understand exploitible percentages, please explain. I saw first hand what a lord could do in hero hammer, and this ain't it. of all the lords released from the Mortiarchs to the Maggoth beast riders, only the two Demi gods, Karl Franz and Nagash, border on too much power. that's 2 out of the 8 combined profile Lords. I understand if you don't like it, but it's nowhere near 5th edition.

CountUlrich
19-11-2014, 03:28
This is not even CLOSE to herohanmer. Steadfast, step up, much more limited on the number and power of individual magic items. Justtony you really sound foolish.


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boli
19-11-2014, 03:42
Herohammer for me was the way you could pimp out your characters so much the only thing which could defeat them was another pimped character. So entire battles dissolved into a slugfest between 2-4 characters slogging it out and you getting increasingly disenchanted with moving your regular units around the battlefield.

In fact in one memorable battle report in WD the characters were battling whilst flying high from like turn 1 so it was pretty much two battles happening. The one with units which was really interesting.... But the half page description of the characters fighting took up most of the report... Given that pretty much whoever won that fight won the battle it was understandable but you could feel their frustration.

4 wounding attacks... Which saved
8 wounding attacks... Yes! He failed his armour save but a magic item allowed him to heal up.

*groans*

50% lords is *not* herohammer

Tastyfish
19-11-2014, 04:32
What's the level of maneouver like in 8th? As someone who quite enjoyed the idea that battles could be won or lost due to psychology, fighting fear causing units was a serious concern and victory generally lay in being able to maneouver your units whilst limiting your opponent's reactions - does this stuff still exist in 8th ed to some degree or is the game balanced between books because infantry blocks generally can wear down their opponents if not supported?

Played a few games of 8th in the early days, and whilst admittedly it was before most books got updated the game did feel smaller. Units got bigger whilst the amount the game would swing between the players seemed to decrease with combats taking longer and being more self contained.

A lot of people seem to like the game at the game at the moment, so the real question I've got is "Is it the same sort of game as 6th/7th or is it something new but better".

Urgat
19-11-2014, 07:26
Let's see:

We're back to percentages with exploitable levels
We're back to Winds of Magic, but with dice
Thanks to End Times, we're back to Herohammer
Also, we're back to imbalanced Lord percentages

Seriously, all we need is Allies percentages and Flying High and we'll be right back to 5th.

Alright. Make yourself a lord. Anything you want, just follow the rules.
Give your opponent a 2K army. If you can stomp over his army with just your lord, we're indeed back to 5th ed. You can't? Well... it's not because you keep repeating it that it'll become true.

To be back to 5th ed, the following would have to change:
The profiles of the lords are much weaker.
The profiles of the SC (Nagash, KFA, Glotkin) are also much weaker. ANy of the three would be obliterated by a 5th ed bloodthirster.
The profiles of their monster mounts are weaker (not much, but they pretty much all lost 3 to 6 pips across their profile).
The magic items they have access to are much weaker.
They have a magic item cap of 100 pts, while they used to have no cap. So you could take that 150 pts sword plus that 100 pts armor plus that 120 pts talisman. I think the only redeeming thing was that mutations and such counted as magic items, though I'm not even sure.
They could wipe out two ranks of an enemy unit in one round of combat (I had a goblin who could no that, see?), no retalliation (no step up), unit tests on double 1 (no steadfast). So they pretty much killed one unit a turn.
They could just go for the enemy general, kill him, army-wide panic test.
Magic... I don't really remember how it worked, but I seem to remember if you drew bad cards you couldn't even dispell, don't qiuote me on that though.
The spells. Heh. Someone tries to remember assault of stones or other such spells, for a laught?

I too thought "heeeeeeeeeeh..." when I saw KFA's profile, but, honestly, try to take opn an army with just him, it's not going to be pretty for him. Back in 5th, I had a dragon with a goblin on top who could do it... though I didn't use him like that, I used him to stick the enemy's blender lord in place (whote emperor dragon: the breath attack touches you? you don't move on a 2+. Yeah!). Then I said "you keep taking such guys, I keep taking the dragon. And thus ended herohammer in our group.

Just Tony
19-11-2014, 10:53
Okay, fine, no white dragon. Okay, fine, profiles are lower. Okay, fine, points limit on magic items. But here's the question, compare the current state of ET, and what the FAQs are leaning toward compared to the structure and restraint of the last few editions, add in the profiles we ARE seeing coming out of ET (No reason to assume they will stop at two Ultralords), and combine that with the current magic system and you can see we're a hell of a lot closer to what 5th was than what we've been. Are we back to 5th verbatim? Of course not. A little too much showmanship on my part taken quite literally by all. Are we as far from it as they tried to take us when they revamped the rules in 6th to even early 8th? Not by a long shot.

HelloKitty
19-11-2014, 13:12
Perhaps its market analysis (that thing down in GW general that people claim GW never does) giving people something that a lot are asking for - low model count armies that revolve around powerful characters (like warmachine).

Its not anywhere near 5th edition yet in terms of what you can do with a character (as urgat pointed out) but it does make viable armies out of 1/2 the models needed which seems to be a unifying flag that people like to wave on why warhammer is "bad".

Urgat
19-11-2014, 19:21
Okay, fine, no white dragon. Okay, fine, profiles are lower. Okay, fine, points limit on magic items. But here's the question, compare the current state of ET, and what the FAQs are leaning toward compared to the structure and restraint of the last few editions, add in the profiles we ARE seeing coming out of ET (No reason to assume they will stop at two Ultralords), and combine that with the current magic system and you can see we're a hell of a lot closer to what 5th was than what we've been. Are we back to 5th verbatim? Of course not. A little too much showmanship on my part taken quite literally by all. Are we as far from it as they tried to take us when they revamped the rules in 6th to even early 8th? Not by a long shot.

I disagree. In 6th and 7th, a blender lord could take on a unit by himself, he merely needed to kill the RnF in base contact to get a draw, and he usually killed more than that (nowhere near the amounts of a 5th ed lord, but still enough). Now, not even KFA or Nagash can. That's the current state of affairs. So yeah, strictly speaking, we're closer to 5th ed if you just say "we have stronger lords now". Obviously. But everything is stronger than in 6th ed, taken separately. Elves strike first, goblins have steadfast, etc etc. We're still eons away from 5th ed, however you cut the cake. 8th ed+ET is still far more restrained than the wrecking train that was 7th ed. Demons can't trample everything anymore, abombs can't waltz around units anymore, dual hydras aren't unsurmountable odds anymore, cavalry can't just choose a target and break it from the front anymore, you can't terrorbomb anymore, etc etc. I have never once suffered the abuse that could be inflected upon me in any previous edition, 6th ed included.