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Zelnik
23-11-2014, 19:31
According to my local GW store manager, the time-table for sisters of battle is 2 years. They are giving them the full Dark Eldar treatment and completely re-doing the entire line.

They are also terrified that it will fail.

I only post this because according to the fine gent at my store, who is a personal friend, told me it's going around between all the store managers.

Hendarion
23-11-2014, 19:37
Store managers having a clue of internal ongoings of the studio? Sounds bogus. Sisters failing sounds plausible though. They never were that famous.

stevegill
23-11-2014, 19:47
According to my local GW store manager, the time-table for sisters of battle is 2 years. They are giving them the full Dark Eldar treatment and completely re-doing the entire line.

They are also terrified that it will fail.

I only post this because according to the fine gent at my store, who is a personal friend, told me it's going around between all the store managers.

Another two years till we get a half decent codex? Ouch :(
I was rather hoping their supporting role in Shield of Baal might mean things were looking up.

Thunderchylde
23-11-2014, 19:59
That actually resonates with the chat I had with my local manager, though he was far more obtuse - no hints/confirmation on the timeline though so I can live in hope :)

Spiney Norman
23-11-2014, 21:38
According to my local GW store manager, the time-table for sisters of battle is 2 years. They are giving them the full Dark Eldar treatment and completely re-doing the entire line.

They are also terrified that it will fail.

I only post this because according to the fine gent at my store, who is a personal friend, told me it's going around between all the store managers.

A local store manager having insider knowledge of the release schedule 2 years in advance seems... unlikely at best, with any luck they'll have managed to sort out the godawful mess they made of the game by then and I will have serious cash to inject into any new models they put out. At the end of the day we Sisters fans have learned to be patient, another two years is nothing.

Still Standing
23-11-2014, 21:51
I am resigned to getting Squatted. I already play Chaos Dwarves as my main WFB army, so I am used to it!

Lord Damocles
23-11-2014, 22:01
I can't really see Sisters ever getting new models somebody at GW HQ telling a store manager that they're terrified that a product will fail, let alone said manager telling a customer that they're terrified that a product will fail.

'We're planning to release a new product. It might totally suck!'

Lord Damocles
23-11-2014, 22:01
Oops, that was odd.

jason_sation
23-11-2014, 22:06
The new Tempestus book and the new Shield of Baal campaign feature Sisters. 7th edition still shows Sisters. I believe that GW is purposely keeping them in our minds so we are excited about them when the release finally comes out. I don't see them being squatted intentionally. If there is some sort of issue making them, that's one thing. But I still believe that GW does intend to release them some day. I'll be curious as to what actually happens with 40k in 2015. All of the Codexes will be fairly new. Not sure what the plan is with Fantasy, but the Hobbit will be done being updated, so what else is there for GW to do but release new campaign books and supplements? They will need something big for the game. SoB could be it.

scourge66
23-11-2014, 22:23
I would be interested in collecting a small plastic SOB army. Phil Kelly came in to the London store where I used to play and told our store manager, who we were standing next to, that dark elder were coming out in 9 months, for November '10 and they were awesome. so i can see this having some validity.

WordBearer
23-11-2014, 22:36
Sisters might be a fairly intricate sculpt for plastic, but I think recent plastic kits have definitely shown the technology is up to snuff for converting the metal ones over. As others have mentioned, it wouldn't even take that many kits to give them a huge head-start on being an all-plastic army. A Battle Sister/Celestian dual kit would go a long way, and could easily be turned into a triple-kit if you included enough special weapons to field them as Dominions. Another kit for Seraphim, and kits for Retributors and Repentia. Four kits and you've got 3/4 of the army done.

Spiney Norman
23-11-2014, 22:45
Sisters might be a fairly intricate sculpt for plastic, but I think recent plastic kits have definitely shown the technology is up to snuff for converting the metal ones over. As others have mentioned, it wouldn't even take that many kits to give them a huge head-start on being an all-plastic army. A Battle Sister/Celestian dual kit would go a long way, and could easily be turned into a triple-kit if you included enough special weapons to field them as Dominions. Another kit for Seraphim, and kits for Retributors and Repentia. Four kits and you've got 3/4 of the army done.

To be fair, you could easily do Battle sisters, dominions and retributors in one kit, all the heavy/assault weapons available to Doms/Rets are also available to the standard BSS squads as well, just in more limited quantities. A 5 model sprue with one each of storm/heavy bolter, Flamer/heavy, melta/multi would be fine, then a second kit for Celestians/Seraphim/command squad with parts for jump packs or not and maybe a Combi weapon.

Something would need to be done about the exorcist, and the penitent engine, so even if the Repentias stay in finecast you're looking at at least 4 new kits to move the army over to plastic. I dare say it might be time to retire the Repentia concept, they haven't managed to make them viable in any of the three codexes they've existed in, T3 models with no armour and an unwieldy weapon just don't really have a niche they can do well in.

WordBearer
23-11-2014, 22:53
I'd also say that they need more special characters to truly bring them up to a modern standard. Ephrael Stern, anyone?

Spiney Norman
23-11-2014, 22:56
I'd also say that they need more special characters to truly bring them up to a modern standard. Ephrael Stern, anyone?

The thing is, they have plenty of characters in the background, Jacobus, Celestine, Kyrinov, Praxedes, Stern, they just need models. Not moving Kyrinov to finecast was a real tragedy, the model was incredible, I'm lucky I picked up the metal before it went OOP.

Adyger
23-11-2014, 23:56
This is what I have been waiting years for. And I am willing to wait a few more. But really, they should do it sooner rather than later. I'm pretty sure Raging Heroes' next Kickstarter is going to basically be "space nuns" and such. I would hate to see that steal the sales from GW, which could potentially shut the whole thing down.

Azazyll
23-11-2014, 23:59
Personally I think if Sisters are ever going to make it on their own, they need to really be on their own, no other ecclesiarchy. They pulled it off with GK, and Sisters are far more deserving from a fluff perspective. I would expect seberal brand new units, something to make them stand out from SM more

.Torch.
24-11-2014, 10:44
It could, however, be the 'surprise' codex that was rumored for early next year. It was rumored to be an 'unexpected' codex, and lets be honest, I don't think anyone expects sisters of battle at the moment.

stevegill
24-11-2014, 11:04
It could, however, be the 'surprise' codex that was rumored for early next year. It was rumored to be an 'unexpected' codex, and lets be honest, I don't think anyone expects sisters of battle at the moment.

You're spot on there. Hoping, yes. Expecting, no.

BigHammer
24-11-2014, 11:37
I would buy the heck out of a plastic sororitas army, especially considering the quality of their recent plastic kits (my DE army is, to put it lightly, swollen). I daresay there are a lot of folk who feel the same way.

theJ
24-11-2014, 11:37
It could, however, be the 'surprise' codex that was rumored for early next year. It was rumored to be an 'unexpected' codex, and lets be honest, I don't think anyone expects sisters of battle at the moment.

Then again, I also don't expect another Grey Knight Codex just yet... so clearly, that's what we're getting :p

Anyway, the rumour says two years, so I wouldn't recommend expecting it in less. Cool if it happens... alas, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Still Standing
24-11-2014, 11:39
Lets be fair, this rumour is not a rumour. It's at best speculation by a store manager, at worst completely made up.

.Torch.
24-11-2014, 11:46
Then again, I also don't expect another Grey Knight Codex just yet... so clearly, that's what we're getting :p

Anyway, the rumour says two years, so I wouldn't recommend expecting it in less. Cool if it happens... alas, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Haha, you never know with GW do you? But Sisters would be the likely 'surprise'.


Lets be fair, this rumour is not a rumour. It's at best speculation by a store manager, at worst completely made up.

True. It does sound like speculation.

GarDakka
24-11-2014, 12:06
While I too feel there is a lot of wishful thinking regarding the Sisters of Battle I too have heard the rumour from a store manager. While local managers may not hear anything official they usually spend some time at HQ and have friends there, at least in the UK.

So with that rumour and the inclusion of Sisters in Shield of Baal it does seem like GW is testing the water.
Maybe GW have advised store managers to put out rumours to gather interest?

Personally I would buy a new Sisters of Battle force. Maybe just an allied force to begin with, and amongst my small group I know I'm not the only one who would buy new Sisters of Battle. But I'm not going to be holding out for them and like all gaming rumours are taken with more than a pinch of salt.

Still Standing
24-11-2014, 12:15
If they did release them I'd spending a BUCKET LOAD of money. Screw my 30k armies, Sisters are by FAR my favourite faction in any sci-fi universe.

theJ
24-11-2014, 12:20
Personally I would buy a new Sisters of Battle force.

As would I, and I don't even play 40k anymore... so I guess I probably wouldn't bother with the Codex, I just want them gorgeous models ^^

GarDakka
24-11-2014, 12:27
While I too feel there is a lot of wishful thinking regarding the Sisters of Battle I too have heard the rumour from a store manager. While local managers may not hear anything official they usually spend some time at HQ and have friends there, at least in the UK.

So with that rumour and the inclusion of Sisters in Shield of Baal it does seem like GW is testing the water.
Maybe GW have advised store managers to put out rumours to gather interest?

Personally I would buy a new Sisters of Battle force. Maybe just an allied force to begin with, and amongst my small group I know I'm not the only one who would buy new Sisters of Battle. But I'm not going to be holding out for them and like all gaming rumours are taken with more than a pinch of salt.

Atherakhia
24-11-2014, 12:36
To be fair, I WAS a Tyranid player til GW priced me out of the hobby.... But these new Tyranid releases have me making second thoughts. If Sisters are the next release (Codex: Adepta Sororitas), based on what I've heard about the models I will buy a ******** and rejoin 40k again

Zelnik
24-11-2014, 19:03
OP here.

Allow me to clarify.

The store manager has close ties to corporate. He made it clear that this was a rumor that all of the store managers were talking about (to be blunt, if all the managers are talking about it, it has more credibility because it hasn't been squashed by corporate yet.)

he spoke with a firm tone, "Two years, start saving."

It's no surprise that it will take two years as well, they have to re-do the ENTIRE LINE of sisters, from start to finish. Not just the troops, but every vehicle as well. They will get the FULL dark eldar treatment and THAT took long enough to complete. Why are they afraid of failure?

because they were just as afraid with Dark Eldar, they thought it was a huge gamble (this is from a corporate guy who visited the store.) and were convinced no one would buy the army. To be frank, it's the success of the Dark Eldar that has made sisters of battle possible.

I know -I- will build a sisters army, been wanting to for a LONG time.

Hrw-Amen
24-11-2014, 19:42
Been waiting for SOB for years and years, was so disappointed we did not get models with the White Dwarf codex. It put me off GW good and proper right up until the recent FW Mechanicum tempted me back. If there are new SOB on the horizon I shall be more than happy as right now 30K is my focus.

I have a very large SOB metal army, but have run out of conversion ideas years ago as there was only so much reposing etc the metal figures could take and so much filing and filling it was ridiculous, so any new models in plastic are more than welcome even just basic troops.

I would like to think that if they get a new codex it will just be SOB as a stand alone force and not have all these preachers and other non SOB stuff in there. they are fine if that is what you want, but personally I just want a SOB force with nothing else.

We will see though as we have heard (Or at least read.) it all before.

A.T.
24-11-2014, 21:44
I would like to think that if they get a new codex it will just be SOB as a stand alone force and not have all these preachers and other non SOB stuff in there. they are fine if that is what you want, but personally I just want a SOB force with nothing else.The priests, penitents, and other crazies are one of the elements that make them distinct though - the current sisters have already strayed quite far into gimp astartes territory.
While i'm not much into the zealot horde either it's part of the character of the army, and having been an old DH player I don't think the sisters would benefit from the same kind of 'ultramarinification'. They are the last bastion of the old gothic madness of 40k and it would be a shame to lose the option if nothing else.

Or rather lose any more of it, there isn't much of the ecclesiarchy left these days.

BigHammer
24-11-2014, 22:02
To be frank, it's the success of the Dark Eldar that has made sisters of battle possible.

You're all bloody welcome :P

MrKeef
25-11-2014, 00:44
I am resigned to getting Squatted. I already play Chaos Dwarves as my main WFB army, so I am used to it!

I wouldn't be too worried about it. There was several pieces of brand new Sister artwork in the Shield of Baal book so they're not on their way out yet.

I'm not saying they will get the treatment deserve, but they will at the very very least still be around in the fluff. Dead races don't get new art.

MrKeef
25-11-2014, 00:46
As would I, and I don't even play 40k anymore... so I guess I probably wouldn't bother with the Codex, I just want them gorgeous models ^^

Well assuming they are good. I just hope they don't go full Santa sled on the sisters, because I really want some myself.

Born Again
25-11-2014, 08:05
I've never played Sisters, in fact I've never played any Imperial army, but if - or when - they redo Sisters I will likely buy some just to show some support for the one army that gives Dark Eldar a run for most neglected in 40k. Hell, if you're prepared to pay jacked-up eBay prices, it's probably possible to get more miniature variety in a Squat army :D
In fact, it may be the kicker I need to do a 'combined arms' Imperial force of Guard, Sisters and Marines.

silentsmoke
25-11-2014, 08:29
Whenever these do appear, I will no doubt have a very large army of Sisters going by the standard of the plastic range at the moment. I do like the metal models, just more variation needed.

battybattybats
25-11-2014, 09:45
I've always liked the sisters (even back in 1st ed when no miniatures for them existed) but playing first Genestealer Cults then Tyranids I had no reason to get any beyond liking the miniatures.

Recently i've started a Knights/Mechanicum army and with allies an option i'd get at least one unit of plastic Sisters where i have not bought any before. If they make plastic Arco-Flagellants i will totally get a unit of those as well!

stevegill
25-11-2014, 09:56
It's no surprise that it will take two years as well, they have to re-do the ENTIRE LINE of sisters, from start to finish. Not just the troops, but every vehicle as well. They will get the FULL dark eldar treatment and THAT took long enough to complete. Why are they afraid of failure?

because they were just as afraid with Dark Eldar, they thought it was a huge gamble (this is from a corporate guy who visited the store.) and were convinced no one would buy the army. To be frank, it's the success of the Dark Eldar that has made sisters of battle possible.

It'd only take three kits to make 90% of the current SoB part of the Ecclesiarchy - so maybe more similarity to the Grey Knight restart than the Dark Eldar:
One box for the all the infantry options and one for the jump troops, just put one of each support and heavy weapon in each box.
One vehicle box - Rhino with options for the Immolator, Repressor or Exorcist plus a sprue of gothic bling.
Job done.

A.T.
25-11-2014, 10:41
Job done.As much as I would like plastics it would be nice to see at least one new unit for them - it's been more than a decade now (penitent engines in '04, exorcists and repentia around '02).

jeffersonian000
25-11-2014, 10:49
All of my Sister minis are 2nd Ed metals purchased in 2nd Ed when Sisters were a WD army list. I would love to replace them with plastics, or even add to them with metal, as long as their Codex is an actual codex, and not another WD mini-Dex or Digi-Dex. I want a book, with reasons to buy more SoB models.

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A.T.
25-11-2014, 10:59
All of my Sister minis are 2nd Ed metals purchased in 2nd Ed when Sisters were a WD army list.I didn't think they had 2nd ed WD rules, just the short-lived codex?

Still Standing
25-11-2014, 11:17
There was the Citadel Journal list too. I don't remember which edition that was, but it had Drop Pods. :D

A.T.
25-11-2014, 11:34
There was the Citadel Journal list too. I don't remember which edition that was, but it had Drop Pods. :DCitadel Journal 49 - ordo hereticus strike force to be used with the sisters list from chapter approved 2002, codex assassins, and the inquisition from the 3e rulebook. They were still BS3 at that point but had an early version of the faith powers - GW had been piling special rules on them like faith and sacred rites (WD 232), presumably after somebody pointed out that the BS3 T3 sisters were huge underdogs to the marines (even at 10pts a model) in every phase of the game.

It also included the rules for the 5 named characters from 2nd edition and the first repentia rules, good book to have for a sisters player.

tristessa
25-11-2014, 12:23
I'd say it's pretty likely that store managers may well have seen some plastic Sisters kits that will be being worked on/finished right about now.

The timeframe would be about right. I'm surprised that anyone would talk about it though.

They were definitely prototype plastic sisters kicking about a couple of years back from what I heard.

A.T.
25-11-2014, 12:33
They were definitely prototype plastic sisters kicking about a couple of years back from what I heard.Many years ago (as in around when DE were being looked at). Plastic sisters were experimented with and found to be infeasible with the technology of the time.

Earlier this year (or possibly last year) someone brought up the subject at a games day and was told that the casting machines needed to get around the problem they originally had now existed, but that GW hadn't at that point invested in them. It was also stated at that point that sisters were neither ready nor on the horizon, the guy mentioned wanting to do a full remake but it not being practical at that time, and a small updated was not on the cards but not ruled out either.

The rumours of sisters being ready have been about for several editions now, they are always a year or two away.


edit - here we go, from July 2014, 40k open day, "They briefly touched upon things which might happen. For example, somebody asked about Sisters of Battle and Jez (Goodwin) said while he would love to do something for them he wasn't sure it is something that would happen soon as an army, as he would really want to commit to the project like he did with Dark Eldar. He didn't rule out a Dataslate and possibility of a plastic kit but not sure if this is him thinking aloud and is something he wants to do, or if it is something he is working on."

Kjell
25-11-2014, 16:44
New battle sisters would be very nice to see but I'm not gonna hold my breath. Maybe I should finally nab some of the metal ones, though... I'm not confident that an update will happen before GW collapses.


As much as I would like plastics it would be nice to see at least one new unit for them - it's been more than a decade now (penitent engines in '04, exorcists and repentia around '02).

Bikes are always an option. So's some kind of open-topped fighting transport. Something between a trukk and a razorback would be cool.

A.T.
25-11-2014, 17:06
Bikes are always an option.They are, though i've never personally been fond of the idea of sisters following the marines. Slightly cheaper, much weaker, and with a subset of the other guy's list isn't a great theme for an army.

As for transports, i'm just hoping someone remembers why the immolators turret is on the front rather than the back at some point. Once had to order a replacement firing hatch from forgeworld and I mentioned that they had forgotten the firing point in their pdf update - they never did fix that.

Azazyll
25-11-2014, 18:02
I agree, bikes would be sweet. Would add a much-needed element combining toughness, speed and firepower.

Kjell
25-11-2014, 18:46
I suggested bikes with the assumption that they wouldn't be carbon copies of space marine bikes. It'd be nice to have them rely on the rider's personal weaponry. Battle sister assault squads with pairs of bolt pistols would also be nice. Very logical follow-up to seraphim. Pairs of pistols aren't very common in the game, for whatever reason.

You could add just about anything that would make sense in an urban combat situation which is what I imagine that sisters are mostly deployed in, anyway.

Still Standing
25-11-2014, 18:56
Power Mace and riot shield it is then.

Chilled out Charlie
25-11-2014, 20:44
How would someone drive a bike whilst holding duel pistols? Unless you are suggesting some sort of hands free bike... Which could be interesting. Guided to wherever they are needed most by the emperors will...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Warhams-77
25-11-2014, 21:01
It doesn't look so good for new SOB models actually


Warhammer Fest – No More Epic – New Tyranids – Visions to Continue
Posted on October 15, 2014 (http://chaptermasters.com/2014/10/warhammer-fest-epic-news-from-the-studio/) by Jon (http://chaptermasters.com/author/jonsgot/)


The Model Team

I spoke with Ali Morrison about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.

I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.


I did speak with Anya from heavy metal, but her comments were for my ears only. This time around. Oh ok she told me to make my highlights thinner, my painting, not my hair.



http://chaptermasters.com/2014/10/warhammer-fest-epic-news-from-the-studio/


Jervis Johnson did not tell the truth about a new Space Hulk at Games Day 2009 - so who knows how this should be understood

Spiney Norman
26-11-2014, 06:40
Expensive, ancient metal sculpts with average to poor rules and no access at all to flyers, anti-air weapons or the psychic phase and there are not many players collecting them?
The GW market research dept has outdone itself this time...

jonsgot
26-11-2014, 07:06
It doesn't look so good for new SOB models actually



http://chaptermasters.com/2014/10/warhammer-fest-epic-news-from-the-studio/


Jervis Johnson did not tell the truth about a new Space Hulk at Games Day 2009 - so who knows how this should be understood

Why what did he say?

It possible Ali does 't know what is in Jes's head for sisters, but i doubt he would lie.

duffybear1988
26-11-2014, 07:35
I wouldn't buy much in the way of new models because I already have 4K of metal SoB and at GW prices I can't afford to replace them. An actual fun working codex would be nice though.

cornonthecob
26-11-2014, 07:44
The issue with Sisters is that they dont really have much variety, you either go full on gimp craziness or just female marines (not ruleswise but aesthetically) like Dark Eldar they need to reinvent the whole damn thing.

I'm curious though did they (Jes etc) ever explain what the difficulty in casting plastic sisters was besides saying 'the technology isn't up to scratch' since sisters are (at the most basic) just marines with a female head and a different breastplate.

sgtspiff
26-11-2014, 08:32
SoB would be lovely.
And I do believe the source. It's simply time for them soon.
GW has gone through all codecies within half a year or so. Then they need to do something big.

Althenian Armourlost
26-11-2014, 08:48
sisters are (at the most basic) just marines with a female head and a different breastplate.

And the difference between old and new Dark Eldar was?
I think 're-done sisters' means re-done sisters - and the sisters will be part of it, sure, but I would be expecting a full on ecclesiastical cluster****, and it will be glorious.

Whatever they do to re-release sisters, I shall buy 2 of the sisters christmas boxes the following Xmas even if my hair is on fire.

A.T.
26-11-2014, 08:48
I'm curious though did they (Jes etc) ever explain what the difficulty in casting plastic sisters was besides saying 'the technology isn't up to scratch' since sisters are (at the most basic) just marines with a female head and a different breastplate.Apparently it was to do with the sisters models having complex detail on all three axis.
I imagine getting the robes right and letting them hold their guns in a sensible pose without long monkey-arms were also problems.

Ruleswise they pretty much are gimp marines at the moment, it's their extended special weapon access and a few strategically placed special rules (read-scouting meltaguns) that just about prop them up.

Warhams-77
26-11-2014, 09:44
Why what did he say?

It possible Ali does 't know what is in Jes's head for sisters, but i doubt he would lie.

There were way too many 'deny open communication'-incidents happening before the Space Hulk release in 2009 - a much awaited project like the overhaul of the Sisters of Battle


I like Jervis Johnson. Let's not get bad feelings about this...

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249766.page?userfilterid=5914 (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249766.page?userfilterid=5914)


They even pulled a bigger stunt at Games Day Germany 2009 in Cologne a few days afterwards. People paid a lot for the tickets to see the advertised announcement of a new upcoming game. At the event there was denial again - a late minute decision maybe but not communicated at a all - the gw staff had shirts with then no-space hulk-but-space hulk-artwork, but everyone from GW was in full denial of the game. Then Space Hulk was announced at sunday night using the email newsletter while people where returning from the Games Day at Cologne. It was nothing but utter disrespect towards your fans - and by far the worst marketing imagineable

It is very good that Ali Morrison has been open about the chances of new SOB minis. I appreciate that. GW should be more open to its customers. But given GW's way of marketing, no information until the product can be pre-ordered, and many like the aforementioned incidents which happen basically everyday in a GW store world wide, it is impossible to get valid information. GW doesn't want its customers to know what is coming

Born Again
26-11-2014, 10:15
Bikes are always an option.

Because if there's one way you're going to top space nuns with guns, it's space biker nuns with guns. :D


Power Mace and riot shield it is then.

Power mace/ riot shield seems like more of an Arbites thing, but seeing as they're even less likely to appear than Sisters, I think this could make a pretty cool unit.

duffybear1988
26-11-2014, 10:27
I think celestians need a boost of some kind. Maybe give the squad praesidium protectiva shields (4+inv) or sarissa combat blades on their bolters (shred). Or how about having their invulnerable save increase after they lose 50% of their models to represent their great sacrifice and faith?

Storm bolters also need some kind of fix to make them worthwhile. I would probably go with invulnerable save ignoring ammo to fit the witch hunting theme.

stevegill
26-11-2014, 10:29
Because if there's one way you're going to top space nuns with guns, it's space biker nuns with guns. :D

Power mace/ riot shield seems like more of an Arbites thing, but seeing as they're even less likely to appear than Sisters, I think this could make a pretty cool unit.

Arbites were effectively part of the Sisters/WitchHunters lists previously and they even share kit like the Repressor.

Maybe that's a better way forward for the Sisters. Instead of a pure Sororitas or Ecclesiarchy codex GW could go for a Imperial Forces codex to cover all the Imperial stuff that has fallen out of the codexes in recent years.

Kjell
26-11-2014, 10:33
Sisters and arbites could certainly blend together. Packs of cyber-mastiffs aren't a bad conceptual match.



Storm bolters also need some kind of fix to make them worthwhile. I would probably go with invulnerable save ignoring ammo to fit the witch hunting theme.

Storm bolters could always be used as a baseline weapon for an elite unit or at least as an upgrade instead of a dedicated special weapon.

duffybear1988
26-11-2014, 10:39
Sisters and arbites could certainly blend together. Packs of cyber-mastiffs aren't a bad conceptual match.



Storm bolters could always be used as a baseline weapon for an elite unit or at least as an upgrade instead of a dedicated special weapon.

Having them as the standard weapon for all dominions would be pretty cool. That would give people a use for the models and break up the blandness of everyone carrying bolters.

Haravikk
26-11-2014, 14:08
Sisters failing sounds plausible though. They never were that famous.
Which isn't really their fault at all; the majority of their model line hasn't been updated since 2nd edition! It's a testament to the quality of the metal models that people can stand to collect them at all right now.

And the whole reason for it is GW's total inability to come out with an actual update! While I personally liked Codex: Witchunters and increased ties with the Ordo Malleus, the model update took the form of more all-metal models, with the only exception being the Rhino/Immolator kit (which admittedly is great). Yet GW were seemingly surprised that people who didn't want the expense of an all-metal army didn't leap at the chance to buy a new and improved… all-metal army?

Roll on Codex: Adepta Sororitas, giving us some rules that, although they had potential, ultimately fall flat in the form of White Dwarf articles then a digital only release, and it's no surprise that the sisters aren't seeing an influx of new players; who wants to invest a ton of money into the only all-metal range in the game which now doesn't even warrant a physical codex anymore?

It's a cyclical problem; people don't buy the models because they can't afford or don't want an all-metal army, but GW won't produce an actual release with play-tested rules and plastic kits because not enough people are buying the models. I'm stunned that GW can be as stupid as they are being about the whole thing, as they're the ones guaranteeing the army isn't successful.


I think it's a huge shame too, as IMO Sisters of Battle is one of the more interesting Imperial lists, as they have power armoured troops with clear weaknesses, and a healthy dose of crazed zealots. They've got the potential for an interesting play-style, and a ton of colourful fluff, especially if more Ecclesiarchy elements were introduced (and properly capitalised on).

It's not even as if their update needs to be huge; a single plastic kit could build all the regular sister units (except Seraphim), throw in an actual codex release and see what happens. If they just keep releasing feeble rules that are over-priced by their own standards thanks to how half-arsed they are, then it's no small wonder hardly anyone is buying into an army that might as well mark with "To be discontinued". Until GW actually commits to updating the army seriously, I'm not going to take their efforts seriously, simple as that.

stevegill
26-11-2014, 14:26
Roll on Codex: Adepta Sororitas, giving us some rules that, although they had potential, ultimately fall flat in the form of White Dwarf articles then a digital only release, and it's no surprise that the sisters aren't seeing an influx of new players; who wants to invest a ton of money into the only all-metal range in the game which now doesn't even warrant a physical codex anymore?

It's a cyclical problem; people don't buy the models because they can't afford or don't want an all-metal army, but GW won't produce an actual release with play-tested rules and plastic kits because not enough people are buying the models. I'm stunned that GW can be as stupid as they are being about the whole thing, as they're the ones guaranteeing the army isn't successful.

It's also exactly the problem that Dark Eldar had - figures nobody wanted with weak rules - but they came out alright in the end (even if it was a bit touch-and-go for a while)

We know GW have been working on Sisters in the past as we were told about the problems they were having, they've been mentioned a fair few times in WD recently, they're even in the latest campaign, somehow this doesn't look to me like a squatting is on its way.

Spiney Norman
26-11-2014, 14:42
It's a cyclical problem; people don't buy the models because they can't afford or don't want an all-metal army, but GW won't produce an actual release with play-tested rules and plastic kits because not enough people are buying the models. I'm stunned that GW can be as stupid as they are being about the whole thing, as they're the ones guaranteeing the army isn't successful.

While that's true, there is still no guarantee that even if they did invest in an all-singing, all-dancing reboot for sisters, that it would be successful. I tend to think that if they really aced the models (like they did with dark Eldar) then yes sisters could be a very successful and profitable part of the GW range, but at the same time it is a big gamble for GW to take at a time when their financials are looking pretty grim. While it is true that it is GWs fault for letting the army get to this stage, it doesn't change the fact that the amount needed to put into the army to make it work again is a lot of time, effort and money.

I think we are going to be in for at least a couple more years wait to be honest, if, as I suspect will happen, forgeworld come out with some crackin heresy era sisters of silence and they fly off the shelves like crazy then some bright spark at GW main will eventually tumble to the conclusion that sisters of battle could do the same for 40k and voila we shall have sisters!

Sephillion
26-11-2014, 14:48
If they don’t do something, they’ll be in a vicious circle: no new sister models/codex because sisters aren’t popular, sisters aren’t popular because no new sister models/codex.

I think they should do them justice. They are in limbo, and this can only hurt any sales. A proper line could attract new players. I don’t think it’s such a huge risk. At least not if they do it right. If they screw up (terrible models/lore/rules), then that is on them, not because SoBs aren’t popular.

A.T.
26-11-2014, 15:01
If they don’t do something, they’ll be in a vicious circle: no new sister models/codex because sisters aren’t popular, sisters aren’t popular because no new sister models/codex.If they don't do something soon there will be no sisters models full stop - at some point GW is probably looking to wrap up all of it's metal lines, they've already killed most of them (and a good portion of the sisters line).

Warhams-77
26-11-2014, 15:18
With new SOB artwork shown in the e-codex, 7th ed rulebook and now Shield of Baal there is evidence someone at GW or at least freelancers do work on new material :) Models are another story though

Jark Irons
26-11-2014, 15:27
i would buy a ton of minis...

it is nice to think of all the possible sculpts for a revamp of SoB. they need a flyer of course. man, that pimped up flying cathedral. the penitent engine made into a dreadknight/riptide death machine. the fixing of faith, like moving it to the psychic phase and throw acts of faith all over the battlefield.

i realy hope they are working on this or Raging Heroes upcoming kickstarter will probebly kill the last hope of GW keeping SoB alive...

Haravikk
26-11-2014, 17:11
We know GW have been working on Sisters in the past as we were told about the problems they were having, they've been mentioned a fair few times in WD recently, they're even in the latest campaign, somehow this doesn't look to me like a squatting is on its way.
Probably, but they're not exactly giving us much to have confidence in either; a plastic kit was rumoured a long while ago now, and didn't surface during either of the Codex: Adepta Sororities iterations, which would have been the ideal time if the aim was to try to breathe life back into the army to gauge interest. But zero changes to the models may as well say "we want you to buy stuff, but don't want to work for it", plus not exactly dispelling doubts about the army's future.


While that's true, there is still no guarantee that even if they did invest in an all-singing, all-dancing reboot for sisters, that it would be successful. I tend to think that if they really aced the models (like they did with dark Eldar) then yes sisters could be a very successful and profitable part of the GW range, but at the same time it is a big gamble for GW to take at a time when their financials are looking pretty grim. While it is true that it is GWs fault for letting the army get to this stage, it doesn't change the fact that the amount needed to put into the army to make it work again is a lot of time, effort and money.
I understand, though IMO it doesn't excuse their past mistakes with the army (no plastic units released with Codex: Witchhunters), but with the new weekly release structure they wouldn't actually need to overhaul the models for everything. After all, the bulk of the Sister's army is formed of the same basic infantry, which one kit could potentially cover; i.e - a good battle sisters box should have enough spares that after you've got a few boxes you can do a Dominion and a Retributor squad since they don't exactly have a ton of equipment options. That would address a pretty big chunk of the army right away with limited risk.
This means the only other investment would be in conversion to Finecast (if any) and any new units; a Zealot Mob box for example would be an easy one to add, and would be in no risk of failing as plenty of Chaos players would snap them up as Cultists, perhaps even Imperial Guard players for penal legion conversions, plus anyone that just wants a more civilian human model to add to conversions, scenery etc.
Oh, and a serious Codex of course, as a digital/White Dwarf only isn't exactly giving us faith in the army's future :)

They can then steadily replace the rest of the models in between other releases, or abandon them if they remain unpopular. After all, the metal models are still great models, and they're fine for the less used/more expensive units, or can just go to Finecast. There's no need for a "Dark Eldar or nothing" deal, as not everything needs replacing; a couple of good kits would be more than the Sisters have had in 15 years (or more?) after all and would make a big difference for flexibility and conversion potential. Hell, with a plastic basic kit it'd be easy to do Celestians and Seraphim ourselves with other bits, but with metals the conversions are pretty limiting, especially for people who like not stabbing their own fingers and not having to spend hours sawing metal for minor gains.

MajorWesJanson
26-11-2014, 17:29
Actually, how badly would it go over to convert Faith to a psychic discipline of 6 powers plus a primaris, a sisters only "divinatus" discipline?

stevegill
26-11-2014, 17:30
<Lots of good stuff> ... Hell, with a plastic basic kit it'd be easy to do Celestians and Seraphim ourselves with other bits, but with metals the conversions are pretty limiting, especially for people who like not stabbing their own fingers and not having to spend hours sawing metal for minor gains.
What, there are people out there who want to play 40K in easy mode (or at least pain and blood-loss free mode)? What is the world coming to? :eek:

Yup, One box (though two would be awesome) and one solid codex and we'd be well away


Actually, how badly would it go over to convert Faith to a psychic discipline of 6 powers plus a primaris, a sisters only "divinatus" discipline?

Would you really want psykers to be able deny use of faith powers? Sisters should get more powerful when there are psykers around, not weaker.

MajorWesJanson
26-11-2014, 17:45
Would you really want psykers to be able deny use of faith powers? Sisters should get more powerful when there are psykers around, not weaker.


Sisters of Battle aren't blanks or culexis. As long as faith powers are mostly blessings, they would only ever deny on a 6. Maybe give sisters a rule that they only count as psykers when manifesting acts of faith but not other times. It would bring the mechanics into line with the core game, instead of a mechanic that works similar to blessings, but is not.

Spiney Norman
26-11-2014, 17:52
Actually, how badly would it go over to convert Faith to a psychic discipline of 6 powers plus a primaris, a sisters only "divinatus" discipline?

Kind of like how a necron player would feel if their cryptek's tech abilities got replaced by a psychic discipline, it would urinate on the whole character of the faction to create Sororitas psykers, battle sisters have a tradition of not using the power of the warp and of persecuting those who do.

If you must put a psyker in there, it's probably best to use an inquisitor. I think they could explore something in the realm of psychic defence, something like an addition to the shield of faith rule that veteran superiors generate +1 dice and Canonesses +2 in your opponents casting phases, though you'd still be woefully outgunned by most psyker heavy armies.

Spiney Norman
26-11-2014, 18:03
What, there are people out there who want to play 40K in easy mode (or at least pain and blood-loss free mode)? What is the world coming to? :eek:

Yup, One box (though two would be awesome) and one solid codex and we'd be well away

Actually I think 5-6 boxes was the minimum I calculated

1. Battle sisters/Dominions/retributors/Celestians/command squad
2. Ecclesiarchy conclave
3. Sisters Repentia
4. Penitent engine
5. Exorcist
6. Seraphim

You could drop the ecclesiarchy conclave, but to be frank, dropping anything at present leaves the list kind of thin, the other option would be to let it rot as finecast for the time being.

All the other units are currently still metal and as such would need replacing as a priority. From what I've seen of GWs releases I think they would want to release Celestians/command squad as a special blinged out box on its own (rather like Stern guard) rather than just have it as an option in a generic battle sisters box, but it's true that the two could be combined. Then there is the matter of character blisters, requiring a Canoness and probably some kind of priest, as well as any named characters (afaik neither Jacobus nor Celestine were moved to finecast).

Kerrahn
27-11-2014, 02:14
Sisters of Battle aren't blanks or culexis. As long as faith powers are mostly blessings, they would only ever deny on a 6. Maybe give sisters a rule that they only count as psykers when manifesting acts of faith but not other times. It would bring the mechanics into line with the core game, instead of a mechanic that works similar to blessings, but is not.

Or, similar to how in an earlier edition of Fantasy (6th / 7th ed army book I believe) the Dwarf Anvil of Doom working in the Magic Phase, despite Dwarves not using magic, have the Sisters use their Faith powers in the Psychic Phase, perhaps using Warp Charges to activate them but do not count as Psychic Powers for DtW (and it would be a bit more balanced when you consider they wouldn't generate more since they don't have Psykers).

Desteele
27-11-2014, 07:36
Forgeworld Exorcist has been removed off their site.
Forgeworld Repressor is also "Out of Stock".

Wish they still did Repressor upgrade kits as I have loads of Sisters rhinos.

Born Again
27-11-2014, 08:35
Arbites were effectively part of the Sisters/WitchHunters lists previously and they even share kit like the Repressor.

Maybe that's a better way forward for the Sisters. Instead of a pure Sororitas or Ecclesiarchy codex GW could go for a Imperial Forces codex to cover all the Imperial stuff that has fallen out of the codexes in recent years.

I wouldn't be in favour of that. While I would like to see all those old 'Imperial Agents' elements come back at some point, I think the Sisters deserve more than being watered down as part of a mixed army.

Also, and I know we're going in to wishlisting rather than rumour here, but on the aforementioned power maul/ riot shield idea, I thought how much cooler and matching the Sisters look would it be if you replaced the mauls with spiky, weaponised censers? Sort of like Skaven plague censer bearers from Fantasy, but smiting heretics!

Kakapo42
27-11-2014, 09:02
Of all the GW re-releases on the horizon, the Sisters of Battle one is one of the ones that inspires absolute terror in me the most (only the Bretonnian re-release rivals it). I ADORE the current model range for them, especially all the metal, and so doing anything to it other than painstakingly re-creating the current models, detail for detail, piece for piece, into completely identical plastic versions would almost certainly completely put me off ever collecting an army of them (now that I have a copy of the old Witchunters rules, the only thing stopping me from starting up one now is having too many other hobby projects going at the moment). Which might actually be a good thing long-term, since it would save money for use elsewhere, but it'd sadden me a fair bit as the Sisters of Battle/Eclesiarchy/Ordo Hereticus combination is easily my favourite Imperial faction.

Really all I'd want to see for them is a 7th edition Grey Knight style release that provides an actual physical codex and leaves the model range untouched, since all I'd really want is a physical set of rules for them. I even like the idea of an almost all-metal army (metal is my favourite model medium you see).

silentsmoke
27-11-2014, 09:25
Really all I'd want to see for them is a 7th edition Grey Knight style release that provides an actual physical codex and leaves the model range untouched, since all I'd really want is a physical set of rules for them. I even like the idea of an almost all-metal army (metal is my favourite model medium you see).

I kind of agree as I like also of the OOP metal guard models which I have collected. It did take me a few years to start on the cadian plastics, just felt strange and I know I will feel that way with the SOB range.

aracerssx
27-11-2014, 09:37
no!!! there can't be future without new models. This isn't a LotD or assassin army. Almost everything might need to get retcon like DE

Tastyfish
27-11-2014, 09:44
I think a Grey Knights style codex reboot would just cement them as a sideline army really, as kind of space marines but not quite. I think if they were going to do a Dark Eldar style reboot you'd have to bring back in the Ecclesiarchy and have the Sisters kind of representing the full on madness of the Imperium, and a different face of warfare in the 41st millenium.

You've got the special forces Astartes, doing their heroic knights in space thing and taking the fight to the enemy,
you've got the Guard, dying in their thousands on the front lines of a thousand worlds,
and you've got the sisters, who (along with Faith in the Emperor) are the last line of defence for humanity.

So a battle where the sisters are involved is one where the enemy has broken through all the other lines of defence and is now threatening the civilian population - who then flock to the fortified chapels and cathedrals which physically represent the safety that faith in the Emperor provides; stout walls, stalwart defenders and unwavering loyalty.

"When your heroes have fallen, and your armies crumbled, the only thing you have left is your Faith." kind of thing

Kind of feel that the idea of a sisters army would really benefit by having some representatives from the huddled masses who have turned to them for protection, something to add a touch of desperation. Might even be a nice way to reinterpret the Repentia or a unit like that - the ones who answer the Sisters call for volunteers to die for the Emperor, after the preachers have got the panicked citizenry properly fired up.

There's enough units at the moment to pick a small elite strikeforce of Sisters who might be fighting to reclaim some relic or isolated chapel, but I think if the army is to expand it needs to look outwards to the rest of the Imperium rather than just following the grey knights model of slightly different equipment for your basic troopers.

A.T.
27-11-2014, 10:03
... but I think if the army is to expand it needs to look outwards to the rest of the Imperium rather than just following the grey knights model of slightly different equipment for your basic troopers.As a faction they bring glowing angels, power armoured soldiers in boxes, foaming at the mouth zealots, giant flaming ballista, ramshackle walkers, futuristic knights, slinky assassins, twisted cyborgs, colourful priests of all shapes and sizes and a dozen more things besides - all blended together in a single chaotic yet entirely appropriate force.

On the one had you would wonder how GW could fail to sell that kind of project to a painting or conversion enthusiast, or how an army of chainsaw robots and flamethrower nuns would not appeal to new players ... on the other hand forgeworld appears to be having their most success ever with relentless wave after wave of slightly different marine units and (thanks to their shockingly poor rules) the most fun units that the sisters have brought to the table over the years have also been amongst the least popular - and probably the worst selling.


How much is missed opportunity and how much is the whole gothic theme just not having mass appeal these days. And is GW willing to invest enough to really find out?

Brotheroracle
27-11-2014, 11:08
It's been the price tag all along though. even when the 3rd ed Witch Hunters book came out it cost 50 dollars to tool out a 10 man squad. Now its more like 90 to get the special weapons you want. The price per point has been and is too high. Fix this and I'd buy a sisters army again.


So sad I sold my old one even if it was only 30 models.

hazmiter
27-11-2014, 11:17
Sounds pretty awkward to me.
Perhaps the sisters will be shunted to a data slate "ala inquisition", however if that happens then it should have enough options covered.
Getting a book may be plausable due to the release shedule picking up.
I would say book over data slate though.

A.T.
27-11-2014, 11:38
Perhaps the sisters will be shunted to a data slate "ala inquisition"They are an inquisition style dataslate.

Szalik
27-11-2014, 13:13
Really all I'd want to see for them is a 7th edition Grey Knight style release that provides an actual physical codex and leaves the model range untouched, since all I'd really want is a physical set of rules for them. I even like the idea of an almost all-metal army (metal is my favourite model medium you see).

This army stayed in one place for way too long. I don't care for another incarnation of rules, digital, paperback, hardback, limited edition (sold out) limited extra edition or even carved in bronze tablets. GW won't care for this army as long as the model range stays the same and they don't have to push it somehow (since they have not invested into making new sculpts).

Previous 2 rulebooks proved it; they were just a big middle finger pushed into SoB players' faces, even better, they were an example of rules done to be sure that SoB are not very playable (so competition won't be tempted to make models for them) and to anti-advertise their product (don't buy too much of our SoB range, we don't have many left in stock and don't care to produce more).

This army needs new plastic box more than anything else. A plastic box for SoB basic troops (celestians, dominions, retributors, maybe even seraphims, all in one), Repentia box (possibly with other options than those eviscerators) and a Exorcist/another option boxed set. Immolator is good enough, Penitent Engine will have to wait or be moved to another small Military Tempestus like codex:Ecclesiarchy.

Even You would be happy then, because the investment would be (at least theoretically) a stimulus for GW to make interesting, well thought rules and the old range would probably appear in greater amounts on internet auctions etc.

Haravikk
27-11-2014, 13:53
Actually I think 5-6 boxes was the minimum I calculated
That would be to replace everything which, if GW are trying to play it safe, I don't think is necessary. After all, there's nothing really wrong with the models visually, and units like Repentia and Seraphim aren't needed in large quantities so it's not as big of a deal if they're replaced right away, or left till later (or simply converted to Finecast without any other changes). The Battle Conclave is already Finecast, so it doesn't need to be updated at all (or dropped), as the models are shared with Codex: Inquisition anyway.

The units most in need of updating are basic sisters units, the battle sisters, dominion and retributors, since a single squad of 10 is pretty ridiculous at £50. Even a £30 for 10 box would be a huge step in the right direction, particularly if it had plenty of options to make it easier to accumulate enough leftovers for Dominion and Retributor squads, or even some extras to make it a combined Celestians box.

But yeah, the only units that really, really, need a plastic kit are the core infantry; everything else can manage as metal or Finecast depending upon whether GW can keep the metal flowing. Of course it's not ideal, but that's the actual minimum required. The only real question mark is the exorcist as I'm not sure if GW would do a hybrid plastic/Finecast kit if they decided to replace the metals; that said, the plastic Immolator is sound, so an extra sprue with the Exorcist bits shouldn't be hard at all, and would be a damned sight easier to build than the warp-prone parts of the current kit :)

Also, as mentioned, with their new update structure GW doesn't have to drop everything at once; they could even just quietly replace metal kits with Finecast ones over a year or two as they eliminate metal entirely. The important thing is new core models so the army doesn't require a mortgage to collect, and a proper codex. Everything else is just icing. Though as I pointed out earlier, at least one new unit is warranted to really make it a proper effort to attract new players, and the ideal option would be to return zealot mobs in some form, as a kit for them can't really fail as it would have too much conversion potential for chaos and guard, plus a load of other 40k armies that want a more civilian looking model to adorn their trophy racks, pain token counters etc.


Also, for whoever asked about converting to Faith to Psychic powers, I just don't think it'd work; I actually kind of like the current mechanic in the digital codex, whereby the powers are once again finite. But I think the codex failed utterly to capitalise as most powers are much too weak for something that's essentially one-off. Take the basic mechanism, make the powers more, well, powerful, maybe add more ways to lose them (e.g - failed challenges, faliled morale checks etc.) to represent loss of faith and to balance the impact and you could have a good system. Especially if it were to have a core two or three powers that most units have to give greater flexibility. Though a deck of cards with the powers would be nice, even better with duplicates so we could actually just put them next to units that have powers to use.

WordBearer
27-11-2014, 14:15
As others have mentioned, GW really can't keep the metal flowing. They're not making it any more, and any metal remaining for sale is remaindered stock.

A.T.
27-11-2014, 14:23
As others have mentioned, GW really can't keep the metal flowing. They're not making it any more, and any metal remaining for sale is remaindered stock.That does not appear to be the case, as the sisters regularly go out of stock and are replaced - this has been going on for a long time now.

Haravikk
27-11-2014, 14:37
As others have mentioned, GW really can't keep the metal flowing. They're not making it any more, and any metal remaining for sale is remaindered stock.
They don't seem to have had any major issues keeping the Sisters in stock so far, but that wasn't the point; even if they have to drop metal, they can continue to do it incrementally, replacing a unit or two with Finecast every few months, and IMO that'd be fine for many of the sisters units. People have it in their head that Sisters need a huge Dark Eldar-style update, but that's really not the case as one good core box would cover a big chunk of the army, and metal/Finecast is still adequate for the less numerous units. And if they do opt to switch to Finecast, they don't have to do it in a single sweep across the entire range, they can do it gradually.

The point really is that it wouldn't take all that much to do a serious update of the Sisters that can truly gauge their popularity and potential; a proper codex plus one or two plastic kits with incremental conversion of remaining metals to Finecast shouldn't be a massive burden to GW, but it would once and for all show whether there is real interest in a viable sisters army, rather than the half-assed White Dwarf/digital updates they've done so far.

deathrain-commander
27-11-2014, 14:54
My Sisters army is essentially finished, all I need is something to use as Celestians, Acro-Flagellants and transports for my Repentia and Battle Conclave (and my Celestians I guess). I figured I'd use Sisters of Silence as Celestians, whenever they get models, but if they release new Sisters models and they look different enough they'd probably make good Celestians. And if they released new units, I'd get them too.

I've also heard several people say they like to play Sisters, but the metal models are too expensive/hard to collect. I doubt they're alone, so I figure if they release a new Sisters book with some plastic models I'm sure they'd sell fine.

Spiney Norman
27-11-2014, 15:04
My Sisters army is essentially finished, all I need is something to use as Celestians, Acro-Flagellants and transports for my Repentia and Battle Conclave (and my Celestians I guess). I figured I'd use Sisters of Silence as Celestians, whenever they get models, but if they release new Sisters models and they look different enough they'd probably make good Celestians. And if they released new units, I'd get them too.

I've also heard several people say they like to play Sisters, but the metal models are too expensive/hard to collect. I doubt they're alone, so I figure if they release a new Sisters book with some plastic models I'm sure they'd sell fine.

I think you're probably the only sisters player I know that actually wants to field Celestians, the only reason they're not the worst unit in the book is because Repentias are also in there.

A.T.
27-11-2014, 15:06
The point really is that it wouldn't take all that much to do a serious update of the Sisters that can truly gauge their popularity and potentialA scattering of finecast models (which traditionally have been no cheaper than the metal they replace) and a codex with few or no new units would die a death.
It's setting yourself up for failure - you can't release crap with the implication that you might (or might not) do better if the crap sells well enough.



I think you're probably the only sisters player I know that actually wants to field Celestians, the only reason they're not the worst unit in the book is because Repentias are also in there.I can actually see the point in repentia, or rather I can see what they are supposed to do even if they are very poor at times.

I can't see what celestians are supposed to do, they have no practical purpose.

Haravikk
27-11-2014, 16:26
A scattering of finecast models (which traditionally have been no cheaper than the metal they replace)
Yes Finecast is more expensive, but at least if GW starts converting sisters to it it's confirmation they're not just going to be discontinued. Besides which, as said, one good plastic kit could cover most of the main sisters units, which should make the army a lot more affordable overall. Plus you don't need to have a lot of Conclave, Repentia, Penitent Engine or even Seraphim models in an army, so the Finecast tax shouldn't be a huge burden.


a codex with few or no new units would die a death.
Why? The problem isn't strictly with the units we have, it's the rules and the prices of the models, and the fact that you don't even see the models in the stores. The problem for Sisters is that they're not getting new players because they're effectively a web-exclusive army, and an incredibly expensive, underpowered one at that.

Grey Knights didn't receive tons of new stuff when they got Codex: Grey Knights, and iirc they didn't get anything new at all with their latest book (actually they lost units). Sisters have a fairly viable mix of units as it is, and IMO a great (potential) play-style. I think they're more than viable once they've got a codex, lower barrier to entry (or at least more on par to other armies) and an actual presence in stores once again.


you can't release crap with the implication that you might (or might not) do better if the crap sells well enough.
Tell that to GW; they're the ones that released both Codex: Adepta Soriritas versions while doing absolutely nothing else to push the army, both apparently to see if people would pay for them. They've already done exactly what you're describing with vague promises of future commitments and no action whatsoever to fulfil any of the army's most basic needs. Two kits and some Finecast conversions is very little to ask, but would actually be a definite commitment on GW's part.

GW is clearly in the position that they're not sure wether to risk anything on the army, but that means that right now the army is guaranteed to continue to fail as no-one wants to buy an expensive army that struggles to compete and doesn't have any presence in stores. Right now GW are doing the bare minimum that they can do and they're getting back exactly what they're putting in (basically nothing). At least if they do a bare minimum actual codex and kits release it should get plenty of interest from existing sisters players and those who wanted to try the army but were put off by the price/uncertainty. If it still fails then chances are a bigger update wouldn't been any different.

It's simply wrong for them to try to gauge interest in an army with 15 year old models by doing nothing, and then do more nothing because they're not sure there's enough interest.


Maybe it's time for a petition or something, some means of showing GW there is real interest in the army?

A.T.
27-11-2014, 21:45
At least if they do a bare minimum actual codex and kits release it should get plenty of interest from existing sisters players and those who wanted to try the army but were put off by the price/uncertainty. If it still fails then chances are a bigger update wouldn't been any different.This is the bit I don't really agree with. Broadly speaking the bare minimum input is most likely to be met with the bare minimum success - basically my concern is that if GW just 'test the water' they'll be met with an equally tepid response and the sisters will be pushed back into the corner forever.

Better than nothing of course but a print version of the current dex, some finecrap, and sisters at £25 a box rather than £41 would be ... probably not enough. Not to establish a serious player base - they'd need 5e GK rules or some other big carrot to offset what is ultimately a vary outdated force organisation. I mean the most exciting thing for sisters players in the last decade was getting the scout special rule on their scout unit.

Spiney Norman
27-11-2014, 21:55
I can actually see the point in repentia, or rather I can see what they are supposed to do even if they are very poor at times.

I can't see what celestians are supposed to do, they have no practical purpose.

Well they're pretty obviously supposed to be the Sororitas equivalent of SM veterans, but since no sisters models exist with Combi weapons (other than one, very old and OOP Canoness) and GW currently has a policy of 'if we don't sell a model of it, that option no longer exists' they kind of got left in limbo as a battle sister with +1 Attack and WS, which is pretty terrible since their combat stats were pretty useless to begin with anyway.

A.T.
27-11-2014, 22:14
Well they're pretty obviously supposed to be the Sororitas equivalent of SM veterans, but since no sisters models exist with Combi weapons (other than one, very old and OOP Canoness) and GW currently has a policy of 'if we don't sell a model of it, that option no longer exists' they kind of got left in limboBut the sisters do have that exact unit in their codex - the command squad have access to combi-weapons, cc weapons, the extra special weapons that veterans often get.

Just a few pages apart. It's madness because there is actually a good unit there if you were to combine the two.

Kakapo42
28-11-2014, 05:32
Even You would be happy then, because the investment would be (at least theoretically) a stimulus for GW to make interesting, well thought rules and the old range would probably appear in greater amounts on internet auctions etc.

Actually I wouldn't. I want to get a large amount of the current range, but I also want to do it through official channels (partially because I'm a bit of a stickler for getting things through the official outlet, but also because getting them through online auctions runs the risk of them being assembled and/or painted, which I really wouldn't want - I enjoy putting models together and painting them myself, and I don't like erasing someone else's hard work so I prefer not to have to strip any models I get). Like I say, the only thing stopping me from diving into a Sisters of Battle army right now is that there's already too many things on my hobby space that need finishing.

I'd be fine with a single generic plastic box, maybe, if I also had the option of getting things from the current range through GW - something like the old Collector's ranges would be ideal. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option, and so I'd rather the current range stays untouched (at least until I've managed to stockpile enough of it) than it gets replaced with something different (which recent history has shown I am extremely unlikely to enjoy).

Szalik
28-11-2014, 07:52
Actually I wouldn't. I want to get a large amount of the current range, but I also want to do it through official channels (partially because I'm a bit of a stickler for getting things through the official outlet, but also because getting them through online auctions runs the risk of them being assembled and/or painted, which I really wouldn't want - I enjoy putting models together and painting them myself, and I don't like erasing someone else's hard work so I prefer not to have to strip any models I get). Like I say, the only thing stopping me from diving into a Sisters of Battle army right now is that there's already too many things on my hobby space that need finishing.

I hope You will find place for them soon, current SoB squads from official sources cost a lot. Single miniatures are ok and quite cheap, compared to the new releases, but squads compared to the old boxes... That's why I like auctions, even when I first have to dip models in Dot-3 and then brush them. Besides I don't feel that GW deserves my money at the moment.


I'd be fine with a single generic plastic box, maybe, if I also had the option of getting things from the current range through GW - something like the old Collector's ranges would be ideal. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option, and so I'd rather the current range stays untouched (at least until I've managed to stockpile enough of it) than it gets replaced with something different (which recent history has shown I am extremely unlikely to enjoy).

I partially understand You here; I already sit on most of the current SoB range (missing some single miniatures that I can live without) and know the pain of collecting OOP models (I missed my chance to get Esher gangers and getting them now was and still is a pain in the rear, not to mention the costs).

hazmiter
28-11-2014, 08:57
A multi part plastic sisters kit would be an insanely logical thing to do.
Have all the options in there, bam, couple of choices taken care of.

R.D.
28-11-2014, 08:58
I would think that even if GW decides that the line isn't worth a big investment anytime soon, FW might start doing something with it piecemeal.

chaospantz
28-11-2014, 09:04
It this point I think the only army I would be willing to start up would be Sisters. I'm already sitting on 3 armies that I enjoy(GK, Orks, and DE), I think that if they were to give them the DE quality release with a major overall on the models then their would be a lot of people who would jump on board with them.

FD_
28-11-2014, 09:27
Seeing how well any female miniature range is selling (looking at you Raging Heroes), I still find it absolutely crazy GW has not redo the Sister.

A.T.
28-11-2014, 09:34
Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option, and so I'd rather the current range stays untouched (at least until I've managed to stockpile enough of it)You've missed the boat a bit i'm afraid - GW have already discontinued about a third of it. I'd suggest keeping an eye on ebay for the missing superiors, seraphim, and special weapon models as the odds of them returning even as finecast are slim.

You will have to paint strip them (badly painted bulk-purchase armies are the cheapest source) but pre-assembly won't be an issue as glued-on backpacks can easily be dislodged with a flat head screwdriver between the neck and pad, and you can cut the base off with clippers and replace it if needed.

Watch out for missing backpacks on auctions as they cannot be cheaply replaced. Notably the maxmini gothic backpacks that look like they would be perfect for the job are completely out of scale for the sisters.

Spiney Norman
28-11-2014, 09:41
But the sisters do have that exact unit in their codex - the command squad have access to combi-weapons, cc weapons, the extra special weapons that veterans often get.

Just a few pages apart. It's madness because there is actually a good unit there if you were to combine the two.

So by that logic space marines don't need sternguard because they have command squads?

Sisters could do with a second Sororitas HQ, but that is a bit of a tricky one, since the Canoness is essentially a chaplain/captain rolled into one and sisters don't use the warp so can't really have a psyker. Perhaps they could have a dedicated anti-psyker HQ, like some kind of psychic blank, and for goodness sake give them back the confessor as a proper HQ choice.

Currently Celestians look like they should be CC sisters (increased attacks and WS), but have no way to actually be good at CC (str 3 AP- is still poor whichever way you look at it). Giving them power weapons as standard is probably not the way to go, they should instead probably just give them a stronger faith power that gives them a considerable boost.

Faith powers desperately need overhauling, for my money I would do one of two things
1. Minor effects that can be attempted every turn - probably using the system that we currently have for battle hymns
2. Powerful effects that are limited to once per game

What they need to not be is minor, negligible effects that are only usable once per game.

A.T.
28-11-2014, 10:08
So by that logic space marines don't need sternguard because they have command squads?You suggested that celestians were left without combi-weapons because there were no models, and I pointed out that there is a celestian unit with combi-weapons in the codex.
The elite celestian unit was just lazily written.



Sisters could do with a second Sororitas HQ With the models they have they couldn't even get a veteran seraphim HQ these days. A new line would be able to support a 'build your own' saint in the style of the c'tan shards, a proper centrepiece model.

Tastyfish
28-11-2014, 10:24
So by that logic space marines don't need sternguard because they have command squads?

Sisters could do with a second Sororitas HQ, but that is a bit of a tricky one, since the Canoness is essentially a chaplain/captain rolled into one and sisters don't use the warp so can't really have a psyker. Perhaps they could have a dedicated anti-psyker HQ, like some kind of psychic blank, and for goodness sake give them back the confessor as a proper HQ choice.

Currently Celestians look like they should be CC sisters (increased attacks and WS), but have no way to actually be good at CC (str 3 AP- is still poor whichever way you look at it). Giving them power weapons as standard is probably not the way to go, they should instead probably just give them a stronger faith power that gives them a considerable boost.

Faith powers desperately need overhauling, for my money I would do one of two things
1. Minor effects that can be attempted every turn - probably using the system that we currently have for battle hymns
2. Powerful effects that are limited to once per game

What they need to not be is minor, negligible effects that are only usable once per game.

Did the Matyr system from witch hunters work properly? Without having played with them, that has always been my favourite interpretation of Faith powers.

A.T.
28-11-2014, 10:37
Did the Matyr system from witch hunters work properly? Without having played with them, that has always been my favourite interpretation of Faith powers.Generally yes, though the limited pool meant it was typically used to supercharge one unit for most of the game (seraphim/canoness) and taking allies/zealots/mixed armies could leave the sisters a little short.
The powers themselves were almost always used for temporary stormshields on small units and bladestorm on big flamer units. All other uses were highly circumstantial.

These days the divine guidance is handed out as pretty much a freebie for an entire army but at release invulnerable saves and AP1 on that scale (especially as it negated FnP and we'll be back) were pretty huge, and even the 'minor' powers let the sisters strike faster than pretty much anything but an eldar and pull tanks apart with their bare hands. It helped that you also got about 3 sisters for every 2 marines back then, rather than the near 1:1 parity they get today.

IMO the best thing about the old system was that you had to think about how and when you used your powers, building up towards it by positioning/protecting key units. Plus it was fun that whenever your opponent wiped out one of you units you got more, characterful and a little demoralising for the other guy :p

stevegill
28-11-2014, 11:10
Did the Matyr system from witch hunters work properly? Without having played with them, that has always been my favourite interpretation of Faith powers.

It did work well when you remembered to use your faith points, I hate to think how many times I forgot because it wasn't something you did every turn.

Haravikk
28-11-2014, 12:10
This is the bit I don't really agree with. Broadly speaking the bare minimum input is most likely to be met with the bare minimum success - basically my concern is that if GW just 'test the water' they'll be met with an equally tepid response and the sisters will be pushed back into the corner forever.
What GW is doing right now is the bare minimum; I'm talking about an actual codex and and limited models release. It might not be a huge overhaul, but it would be a huge difference compared to their current web-exclusive, all-metal, underpowered status which is effectively just one step away from being squatted.

Two kits is still a biggish commitment, but it would still be less expensive than four kits or so; of course I'd love to see a huge Dark Eldar style release, but GW is giving no sign that they're willing to invest that much in the army. If the choice is between a modest release that at least gives the army a future, versus discontinuation, then I will pick the first one in an instant.

As I've said already, two kits with one being to give Sisters more affordable core units, plus one for Frateris Militia would be a big boon to the army, as it adds more of the Ecclesiarchy, gives us low-cost chaff units, and would sell just as easily to Chaos players and anyone interested in conversions. One good kit that can handle Battle Sisters, Dominion and Retributors (the latter two in multiples to build up spares) covers a pretty big chunk of the army. Not sure if GW would include Celestian bits, but at least with a plastic kit it'd be significantly easier to convert your own units.

I want to stress; I would absolutely love for a huge update with a full-blown model range, but all evidence thus far points to that never, ever happening. So I'd much rather have something smaller that could finally start to make the army viable, as otherwise the army is dead already and GW just hasn't confirmed it.


sisters at £25 a box rather than £41
Where do you get £41? The Battle Sister Squad (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battle-Sister-Squad) is currently listed at £49.70. A kit at £25 would be halving the cost to entry for Sisters; I'm only currently a sisters player at all right now because I was able to bulk up what I had from 3rd edition with players selling their stuff on eBay in disgust, only buying new stock to fill the gaps. If I hadn't been able to do that I never would have made a viable army of them at all, and even so I don't have a proper Dominion squad (I'm using my old Arbites as stand-ins instead).

Besides, Dark Eldar still have a lot of Finecast units, as do Eldar, and they seem to be doing pretty well in spite of it. Also, Sisters don't have to become an overnight rousing success, if they become popular enough to cover their costs then at least GW might see the potential in further development, currently GW is investing next to nothing in them, and generating next to no interest. The only purpose they seem to serve right now is to use up any remaining metal supplies GW has stocked.

A.T.
28-11-2014, 12:19
Where do you get £41?Was adding them up individually, must have forgotten the 10th model.

As I said above it's not that I don't think a couple of kits would be nice, it's that I fear a 'cautious' release would be met with an equally cautious response from the public, and that GW would take that as a sign to cut their losses.

stevegill
28-11-2014, 12:28
Actually I wouldn't. I want to get a large amount of the current range, but I also want to do it through official channels (partially because I'm a bit of a stickler for getting things through the official outlet, but also because getting them through online auctions runs the risk of them being assembled and/or painted, which I really wouldn't want - I enjoy putting models together and painting them myself, and I don't like erasing someone else's hard work so I prefer not to have to strip any models I get). Like I say, the only thing stopping me from diving into a Sisters of Battle army right now is that there's already too many things on my hobby space that need finishing.

I'd be fine with a single generic plastic box, maybe, if I also had the option of getting things from the current range through GW - something like the old Collector's ranges would be ideal. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option, and so I'd rather the current range stays untouched (at least until I've managed to stockpile enough of it) than it gets replaced with something different (which recent history has shown I am extremely unlikely to enjoy).

Sadly the range is shrinking so rapidly now, presumably from mould failures, that you're unable to order a fair bit of the old range and there are entries from the codex that you just can't get without conversions. If you wait much longer you'll have no chance at getting anything like a reasonable range of figures.


As I said above it's not that I don't think a couple of kits would be nice, it's that I fear a 'cautious' release would be met with an equally cautious response from the public, and that GW would take that as a sign to cut their losses.

I think you're wrong there tbh. I think a new plastic Sisters release of any kind would prove GW intended to support them which would appease a lot of people's worries and if the price was reasonable would also attract players. People don't mind as much paying high prices for a few specials if the core troops are reasonably priced.

Spiney Norman
28-11-2014, 12:41
Did the Matyr system from witch hunters work properly? Without having played with them, that has always been my favourite interpretation of Faith powers.

It did, but it require a fair bit of book keeping, trying to keep track of how many faith points you had left was frustrating, but at least the powers were worth casting and made sense, even if some of them were a bit powerful (thinking Spirit of the martyr on a Cloaked jump-Canoness).

Also whoever mentioned the generic living Saint, I would not like that at all, living saints are supposed to be incredibly rare manifestations of the emperors will, not something that happens to every third battle sister, keep her as a special character.

A seraphim character is one idea, though I can't help thinking it would just be simpler to give the Canoness her jump pack back.

Haravikk
28-11-2014, 13:20
I fear a 'cautious' release would be met with an equally cautious response from the public, and that GW would take that as a sign to cut their losses.
Sure it's a valid concern, but as opposed to what? GW isn't even taking the cautious approach right now; the codex releases have at best been underpowered, and at worst are insulting, as the current one is worth more IMO for the artwork than for the rules. The best thing really that can be said is that the current digital release is that it's mostly playable if you don't mind working hard to win, but for an army with so few units as we have (and the digital codex actually reduced that!) it shouldn't be so hard for them to create a set of competitive, well-balanced rules, especially when the digital-only codex is hardly cheap either.

I'd almost rather have a cautious release that fell flat and convinced GW to drop the sisters, as it'd finally put an end to the current purgatory we're trapped in. I'm not convinced this would happen though; like I say, a new codex released properly (not just the current one printed, but a new, properly play-tested book with hard-back, limited edition + digital versions) and a couple of plastic kits would still be a huge move given the current state of the army, and halving the cost of the models that most people needs would be a significant gesture too. After all, with a few plastic sisters kits and a few of their current rhino kits you could create a useful force no more expensively than any other army, provided they have some competitive rules to back them up.

A.T.
28-11-2014, 13:35
I think you're wrong there tbh. I think a new plastic Sisters release of any kind would prove GW intended to support them which would appease a lot of people's worries and if the price was reasonable would also attract players.If the current sisters line was as is save for a codex in print, a plastic troops box, and the seraphim/characters in finecast do you really think they would be putting up the sales numbers over the following 3-4 years to warrant a larger update?

It's lacking that new player appeal. I'm not suggesting they need the whole bells and whistles knock the marines off the top spot release but they need at least enough to warrant their spot on the shelf - enough that a new player browsing the eldar or marine line/codex in the store might be drawn away to the sisters.



I'd almost rather have a cautious release that fell flat and convinced GW to drop the sisters, as it'd finally put an end to the current purgatory we're trapped in.Call me an optimist :p

hazmiter
28-11-2014, 14:09
Some one mentioned the old seraphim :D i know some one with 5 of those hehehe, very nice models those, esp the wing packs or whatever theyre equivilent is.

MajorWesJanson
29-11-2014, 03:49
It did, but it require a fair bit of book keeping, trying to keep track of how many faith points you had left was frustrating, but at least the powers were worth casting and made sense, even if some of them were a bit powerful (thinking Spirit of the martyr on a Cloaked jump-Canoness).

Also whoever mentioned the generic living Saint, I would not like that at all, living saints are supposed to be incredibly rare manifestations of the emperors will, not something that happens to every third battle sister, keep her as a special character.

A seraphim character is one idea, though I can't help thinking it would just be simpler to give the Canoness her jump pack back.

A living Saint as a HQ choice would actually be fitting, as things like Chapter Masters, Chaos Lords, Necron Overlords, Warbosses, are supposedly tiny in number to their forces and in the galaxy, but there are no limits on them. Just make the Living Saint not fufill the required HQ slot. Or beef it up and make the Living Saint the Sisters Lord of War unit.

WordBearer
29-11-2014, 05:05
Also whoever mentioned the generic living Saint, I would not like that at all, living saints are supposed to be incredibly rare manifestations of the emperors will, not something that happens to every third battle sister, keep her as a special character.I think I like it on a similar concept of how C'Tan are currently handled. We know there are other Living Saints, and replacing Celestine with a highly customizable kit that can look like Celestine but also has a few alternate weapons, heads, and accessories would be very keen to me.

You'd still be dealing with them as a fairly rare inclusion in armies, but with some choice as to what saintly abilities you load them out with, coupled with the variable appearance of the kit, you could do a little narrative building and make "your" Living Saint.

I don't know, it's just something that I personally dig. I tend to make up names and histories for character models and convert them to make them unique. Your mileage may vary.

Born Again
29-11-2014, 08:05
Seeing how well any female miniature range is selling (looking at you Raging Heroes), I still find it absolutely crazy GW has not redo the Sister.

I think models like Raging Heroes' females generally sell well because they look like pornstars with weapons which, apart from maybe Repentia, is not something that really fits well with the Sister's aesthetic and the majority of people probably would not want. Now, I don't want them to be block-armoured - I like the curved armour plates as reflecting a feminine style, while not being overly sexualized. If GW wants to wow with a new Sisters range, they have to do it differently to how other companies market female models.


A living Saint as a HQ choice would actually be fitting, as things like Chapter Masters, Chaos Lords, Necron Overlords, Warbosses, are supposedly tiny in number to their forces and in the galaxy, but there are no limits on them. Just make the Living Saint not fufill the required HQ slot. Or beef it up and make the Living Saint the Sisters Lord of War unit.

I think a Lord of War would be going a bit too far even for a Living Saint, and the DE codex has shown that the 'all armies now have a LoW' trend was short lived. I think they'd be a cool unit to have in the army, but maybe just an HQ.

Tastyfish
29-11-2014, 08:21
I think we're well off a news and rumour thread now (but then the original rumour was a "watch this space for a complete overhaul in the next two years" - but I think the best way to do a living saint would be for it to be an Act of Faith, especially if they brought back the matyrdom system. It's either a major battle or your darkest hour, spend a large number of faith points and nominate a character to turn into a living saint.

Seems a little closer to the background than having High command assign a saint to a particular warzone under the command of a Canoness.

A.T.
29-11-2014, 09:25
Seems a little closer to the background than having High command assign a saint to a particular warzone under the command of a Canoness.Traditionally the saints have led (though not necessarily commanded) whole crusades - it's only the recent sanguinor-style Celestine that has been appearing for a battle and vanishing afterwards, she was originally at the forefront of the Palatine crusade.

IIRC they did have pop-up mini-saints in dawn of war though, the avenging angels. They'd be a good unit to double-pack with a seraphim sprue.

Tastyfish
29-11-2014, 09:35
Traditionally the saints have led (though not necessarily commanded) whole crusades - it's only the recent sanguinor-style Celestine that has been appearing for a battle and vanishing afterwards, she was originally at the forefront of the Palatine crusade.

IIRC they did have pop-up mini-saints in dawn of war though, the avenging angels. They'd be a good unit to double-pack with a seraphim sprue.

I thought it was the other way around, with the leaders of successful crusades being canonised after the fact - their victory being part of the proof that the Emperor was working through them?
Almost definitely sure Macharius wasn't a saint whilst he was leading his armies.

Kakapo42
29-11-2014, 09:44
I thought it was the other way around, with the leaders of successful crusades being canonised after the fact - their victory being part of the proof that the Emperor was working through them?
Almost definitely sure Macharius wasn't a saint whilst he was leading his armies.

I think you might be thinking of regular saints - if I remember right Macharius was declared a saint, but never made a Living Saint. According to the old Witchhunters codex Living Saints are declared while still alive and part of a crusade after a long debate between different elements of the crusade leadership, and if the individual in question is declared one then they're more empowered and inspire others around them, but don't tend to live for very long afterwards (hence why they're Living Saints rather than regular ones - once declared as one, they're effectively already Martyred).

A.T.
29-11-2014, 11:52
Speaking of rumours is this the first time ever that a non-sororitas power armoured troops choice has been able to take a heavy flamer? I wonder what a BA mirror matchup will look like with the new codex.

Lord Damocles
29-11-2014, 13:00
Speaking of rumours is this the first time ever that a non-sororitas power armoured troops choice has been able to take a heavy flamer?
Salamanders could do it in Codex: Armageddon, and Legion of the Damned have had the option since the 6th ed. Codex: Space Marines.

A.T.
29-11-2014, 13:08
Salamanders could do it in Codex: Armageddon, and Legion of the Damned have had the option since the 6th ed. Codex: Space Marines.I know legion/sternguard have them, I was wondering if I had missed one of the more core troops units. Salamanders were my first thought as well but having looked at the book they got a multimelta, not a heavy flamer (though the option for a 10 point regular flamer instead of a heavy weapon looks out of place).

There are two BA players locally, the change has me thinking about what I can switch up in terms of my army list to avoid a mirror-matchup of doom.
More melta immolators perhaps, forgeworld nerfed the marine variant long and hard with their last book.

Commissar Merces
29-11-2014, 15:14
Are there actually any real rumors here or is this another "sisters are being remade but who knows when!" thread

Codsticker
29-11-2014, 15:36
Yes, a number of posts made recently are probably better suited to a discussion in Background. If there is nothing further to add that is on topic then the thread will be closed.

Codsticker

The Warseer mod Squad

Spiney Norman
29-11-2014, 22:28
I think I like it on a similar concept of how C'Tan are currently handled. We know there are other Living Saints, and replacing Celestine with a highly customizable kit that can look like Celestine but also has a few alternate weapons, heads, and accessories would be very keen to me.

You'd still be dealing with them as a fairly rare inclusion in armies, but with some choice as to what saintly abilities you load them out with, coupled with the variable appearance of the kit, you could do a little narrative building and make "your" Living Saint.

I don't know, it's just something that I personally dig. I tend to make up names and histories for character models and convert them to make them unique. Your mileage may vary.

I hear what you're saying, but a Ctan shard isn't exatly rare, given that every ctan was broken up into thousands of them every dynasty seems to have a reasonable supply.

The problem is that with the current unbound structure a generic, customisable living Saint is just asking to have twenty of them show up in the same army and that is just wrong IMHO. Having more than one living Saint even existing at any one time seems unlikely, let alone on the same battlefield in the same army.

Charistoph
29-11-2014, 23:32
I hear what you're saying, but a Ctan shard isn't exatly rare, given that every ctan was broken up into thousands of them every dynasty seems to have a reasonable supply.

The problem is that with the current unbound structure a generic, customisable living Saint is just asking to have twenty of them show up in the same army and that is just wrong IMHO. Having more than one living Saint even existing at any one time seems unlikely, let alone on the same battlefield in the same army.

Still could be listed as unique, unlike the C'tan.

But here's to them doing a staggered release over the years so they don't glut their own market when they do a full release. A Sisters box here, the Seraphim box there. Pretty soon we'll be talking about a serious plastic codex army.

philbrad2
30-11-2014, 07:47
No news or rumour here moving to 40K GENERAL.



PhilB
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corps
30-11-2014, 12:13
No a simple redonne of the metal units in plastic won't be enought.

- I jump when i read that ally in the seven ed could use ally vehicule. for one second i was like yeah i can transport my dominion in walkyrie and then i realise it s wrong.
-Sister need better vehicule (rhino don't live long) and at least on flying transport and flying attack model.
-They also need a second choice of troop like the equivalent of the scout for SM. ( personnaly i would like to arbites back in one form or another)
-They also need not only better ruling but also a better concept. An army lacking transport that can't survive a few turn to deliver troop don't work. especially if said troop aren't fast or tought enought to survive long enough to be in close combat.
-the need R C to not write for them, as he done the marvelous jobs of butchering them twice and probably on purpose.

Basically that mean' s

1 - One box for basic troop
2 - one box for second hypothetical basic troop
3 - one box for special foot units (celestions, ominions, retribution)
4 - one flying transport box
5 -one flying attack craft
6- one box for transort vehicules (ground)
7-one for attack vehicule (ground)
8- one for conclave ( not sure if it s possible)
9- one for comand squad.
10- blister for special character

And i m pretty sure i forget some. That means ten box of if they are all dual kit 5 box. It s far far from the simple solution of "we need only one box".

Plus a lot of choice depends on the concept. Personnaly i prefer to play the 3.5 codex with the actual rules because of the diversity it provides rather than the second butchered codex. But taking example of the grey knight it will be a stripped down army. No other imperial agency, so no arbites (sad), no inquisition storm trooper, no conclave, no inquisitor and no frateris militian and other cardinals.

Witch mean a rather tasteless codex even if we have acces to an inquidition datatslates. I have all the versiosn of the Sister book since the one with the ugly covert at by john blanche ( i hate his art). I remenber fondly of the frateris militia with access to horses, the arbites etc etc

The cultist has shown that rabble units are possible to scult and honestly a chaos cultist is the same as a frateris militia ( same for the redemptionist of Necromuda who are twins with chaos cultist from Mordheim). It s just the pendentif around his neck that change. For the Arbites their last incarnation fo Necromunda show model that are closed to Cadians. So again not that hard to do.

The main problem therefore is not to create but a financial one. It s hard for a compagny that is not in good shape to gamble on a project in a time when some players complain with reason that their limited ressources ( a point cimson made in the thread "in the freedom has gone to far") can't alow them to keep in touch with every news. Especially when players who know about the sister tend to be veterans. The same veterans who are not the cash cow of GW for the reason that they had hoard of minis and only buy when hey can and only a few.

To motivate the Cash Cow to buy a whole space nuns army you will need a completely finished project with a lot of coumnication ( a budget on it s own). Also don't forget who play the game mostly white men, don't jump at my throat. Yes other play it too. But it s a marketing issue here, if 80 % of your player base are white male and if 60 % of them are teen or pre teens full of hormones it will be hard to sell them an army of female. why because as much is fun to have a female characters in WOW to watch her ass runing in the grass when you are fifteen, it s harder to justify to your budy why you play an army of nun who are not sexy.

It will much easier to play guard or marines when you are of this ages.

Again, i m not saying that all players are white teenagers all i say is that a significant power base of player is and that means the marketing is tailored for them. So is the products lines.

If you combine the market target, the difficuties of the productions, the limited ressources of a lot of players, the backround adaptations; it s very unlikely that it will change. GW knows that they can remove a single model like the fish warrior and not have a riot of players at his door, they also know that the squat fate have never been accepted by some old veteran. The are still dealing with that issue. So instead they have created a neutral zone. Now it s squad zone + "unpopular army we can't squat zone because if we do will heard of it for the next 20 years" like bretonians and sister zone. + "Popular army but not so much" zone that need a few broken rule to sell like tau. + Zone of minis we will sell whatever happens like marines. + Zone of "why fix it they are dumb enough to buy it anyway" like CSM and the mysterious DE zone also known as "i m not sur why we did it but it work zone"

I love the sista but i highly doubt they will move from the "unpopular army we can't squat zone because if we do will heard of it for the next 20 years" like bretonians and sister zone. to the the mysterious DE zone also known as "i m not sur why we did it but it work zone"

A.T.
30-11-2014, 12:37
And i m pretty sure i forget some.Seraphim, repentia, various blisters.
The current metal line already shares a lot of parts, only the retributor models are particularly unique in terms of the body shape. The sisters/dominions are the same while the celestians/command squad could do with a new box, but at the same time could be accounted for simply with extra heads/backpacks in the basic box - so two boxes for the core infantry unit in each of the five FoC slots, two more for the unique units, plus blisters.

The frateris would be the logical 2nd troops choice though. Arbites have no connection to the sisters beyond sharing the repressor transport and being a weapon swap option for inquisitorial stormtroopers 11 years ago.

Hrw-Amen
30-11-2014, 15:48
You could always have novices as a troops choice or even use them as a scout role in the same way as marines if you want to go that way. I think troops in the manner of conscripts would be better suited though myself. Could make for a slightly different appearance, maybe less armoured, using las/auto/shot-guns more normal women look to them?

Maybe they could use something similar in design to a DA Dark Shroud or Dark Talon as a flying transport, obviously it would have to be modified to allow troops to be transported rather than in its current role.

Charistoph
30-11-2014, 15:50
No a simple redonne of the metal units in plastic won't be enough.

Agreed for when the next codex comes out. However, a redo of the metal to plastics for the units that have been around since at least Witchhunters (if not Sisters of Battle) over the next two years would be more than sufficient. It's not like there isn't already a codex available for them, after all. It would allow the suits to test the feasibility of the army's "popularity", and possibly using that income to fuel the extra units to be added when the next book is ready to be launched. Just my opinion, though. It's probably too good an idea, so GW won't do it.


I love the sista but i highly doubt they will move from the "unpopular army we can't squat zone because if we do will heard of it for the next 20 years" like bretonians and sister zone. to the the mysterious DE zone also known as "i m not sur why we did it but it work zone"

Oddly enough, neither Bretonnians nor Sisters are unpopular in the gamer's world. I wouldn't even say Dark Eldar were unpopular before 5th Edition, either. They both suffer from the same problem and that is no one at GW with any authority seems to have the guts to take them under their wing and bring them out of obscurity. Sisters at least have had codex updates, Bretonnians haven't been touched in "forever".


The frateris would be the logical 2nd troops choice though. Arbites have no connection to the sisters beyond sharing the repressor transport and being a weapon swap option for inquisitorial stormtroopers 11 years ago.

Frateris are in that odd place where Cultists lie. They could be just militia of PDF available for local defense, but also could be represented by IG. Oddly enough, that also fits with the Arbites. Both are not offensive armies, only defensive, at least on a strategic galactic scale, so no reason not to have them together, at least until the model lines get fleshed out more.

Should Arbites get their own codex ala Assassins and Inquisition, though? Tough call, personally, I'd prefer no, but I think putting Inquisition out on their own was a little wonky.

Also, I should point out that the Valkyrie, Vendetta, Marauder, and any other Flyer available to the Astra Militarum have no connection to the Imperial Guard at all. Period. None whatsoever. They are all part of the Imperial Navy, and would be just as on call for the Sisters or Inquisition as they would be for the Guard.

A.T.
30-11-2014, 16:15
You could always have novices as a troops choice or even use them as a scout role in the same way as marines if you want to go that way.I've always thought the templar approach had merit - mixed units of veteran celestians and meat shields... uh, novicae. A master and apprentice approach.

The old zealots actually worked quite well though as they were essentially squishy ork mobs, 20+ bodies with a couple of eviscerators hiding inside. The frateris are quite an easy option to expand with by throwing in minor clergy, the cardinal guard (crusaders), horses, relics carried on palaquins, and so on. The sacrificial blob unit to end all sacrificial blob units.


Sisters have a couple of flavourful options for flyers, the two top candidates being the aquilia lander (as forgeworld no longer produces their own), and ecclesiarchal gun cutters (huge armed orbital shuttles for dignitaries)

corps
30-11-2014, 16:56
By unpopular i don't mean people dislike them rather than there is not much people who loves them. And here, we go flyer, Aquila Lander? forge world and not anymore apprently. The Arvus aka the flying anvil, forgeworld. the Avenger? apart from the fact that he it is a paper tiger and an overcosted one, guess it ? forgeworld.

I agree on the point that Arbites are defensive unit. So the way i see it, they could be unlocked only in defensive scenario.
Frateris militia it s more ambigu true The eclesiarchy can have an army but i m pretty sure that some cardinal may have a retinue of 5.000 bodyguard while traveling.... seriously if one believe that eclasiarchy not only folow the letter but also the spirit of "no men army", that one is naive. My militia was partially made of esher minis as would be sista.

So they could be a 0/1 unit or not limited only in defensive scenario.

One thing that bother me since the six ed is that the retinue crusader zealot is not ... zealot. that should be fix

I like the idea of a templar aproach. The way i think of it that will be sista to be equipped like storm trooper. just a step before sista.

repentia need a rethink, the faith system was in my opinion much interesting in the which hunter codex. So again it s not just one box it s complete rethinking of it.

just one example the holy few the melta, the bolter, the flame trow need to be the only weapons. yes i i m touching a sacro saint art of the background but one element that make this army boring is that with so few weapon avaliable everyone know what you will play. lack of diversity also kills this army motivation.

A.T.
30-11-2014, 17:33
repentia need a rethinkGive them normal FnP and the same shield of faith reroll as the seraphim, and make the eviscerator optional (see the repentia in the 2 page spread of the WH book - knives and chainswords). Make the mistress useful (priest perhaps), make the faith power rending cc attacks, and optionally allow them to make a disorganised/through dangerous terrain charge when they wouldn't otherwise be allowed to - such as after a run move.



just one example the holy few the melta, the bolter, the flame trow need to be the only weapons. yes i i m touching a sacro saint art of the background but one element that make this army boring is that with so few weapon avaliable everyone know what you will play. lack of diversity also kills this army motivation.Stake crossbows and huge flaming artillery ballistae would be a good start. But sisters don't even use many of the flame/bolter/melta weapons - there is diversity available in those weapons, the range just pre-dates it all.

Charistoph
30-11-2014, 19:34
By unpopular i don't mean people dislike them rather than there is not much people who loves them.

I still disagree on that. There are many who are just waiting for plastic so it doesn't cost an arm, leg, and second born to acquire. There are many who would prefer them if they knew they existed at all, but don't because they aren't in store and no one is playing them locally.

This is a case of lack of company support causing a perception of "unpopular" rather than anything actual lack of desire on the customer part.

Earlier, when I called the Sororitas and Arbites defensive armies, I simply meant that they were armies set up to guard worlds (more specifically sites on worlds) and not armies that would normally be used to take entire systems from alien polities. The Imperium uses the Guard and Marines for that.

corps
30-11-2014, 19:48
I still disagree on that. well i agree to disagree then without any ill whil.



Earlier, when I called the Sororitas and Arbites defensive armies i don't see how this contradict my thought on it. i disagree about to guard specific sites. they sometimes lives with nomads on a world and i wouldn't be surprise if some bring the emperor justice to space nomades. granted that very specfic. i don't include this for the pleasure of arguing but to have a larger vision of it.

what kind of militia could conquer world? mercenary maybe? rogue trader house retinue seem unlikely as they operate beyond the imperium as large.

Charistoph
30-11-2014, 20:28
i don't see how this contradict my thought on it. i disagree about to guard specific sites. they sometimes lives with nomads on a world and i wouldn't be surprise if some bring the emperor justice to space nomades. granted that very specfic. i don't include this for the pleasure of arguing but to have a larger vision of it.

what kind of militia could conquer world? mercenary maybe? rogue trader house retinue seem unlikely as they operate beyond the imperium as large.

I wasn't disagreeing more as clarifying my point.

corps
30-11-2014, 20:42
I wasn't disagreeing more as clarifying my point. very true.

Beyond the unit, equippement and faith problem, GW will have to comunicate about them. before the digitale codex was the white dwarf version. It s resulted in people forgeting the sista. and data slate are less know than codex. Well at least at my knowledge but i may be wrong. Still making them know again is i think the first step.

Spiney Norman
30-11-2014, 21:56
I still disagree on that. There are many who are just waiting for plastic so it doesn't cost an arm, leg, and second born to acquire. There are many who would prefer them if they knew they existed at all, but don't because they aren't in store and no one is playing them locally.

This is a case of lack of company support causing a perception of "unpopular" rather than anything actual lack of desire on the customer part.

Earlier, when I called the Sororitas and Arbites defensive armies, I simply meant that they were armies set up to guard worlds (more specifically sites on worlds) and not armies that would normally be used to take entire systems from alien polities. The Imperium uses the Guard and Marines for that.

When did we all start subscribing to the fallacy that converting to plastic means a drop in price?
Battle sisters are currently 3 for £10 or £49 for a squad of ten, do you really think that a box of five models with enough parts to turn them into one of five units (Battls sisters, dominions, Retributors, Celestians, command squad) will cost less than £25? I could actually see a battle sister box covering all those units coming in at the same price as the sternguard squad considering the quantity of bits it will need to contain.

Charistoph
30-11-2014, 22:38
When did we all start subscribing to the fallacy that converting to plastic means a drop in price?
Battle sisters are currently 3 for £10 or £49 for a squad of ten, do you really think that a box of five models with enough parts to turn them into one of five units (Battls sisters, dominions, Retributors, Celestians, command squad) will cost less than £25? I could actually see a battle sister box covering all those units coming in at the same price as the sternguard squad considering the quantity of bits it will need to contain.

Maybe, but we could also be looking at something akin to a Cabalite Warriors or even Tactical Squads. Not a full list of options for all squad types, but enough to get started with anyway.

A.T.
30-11-2014, 23:49
I could actually see a battle sister box covering all those units coming in at the same price as the sternguard squad considering the quantity of bits it will need to contain.The sprues cost pennies, the box will cost what GW thinks it can make on them.

MajorWesJanson
01-12-2014, 00:02
The best comparason would be the GK box- 5 models, makes 4 different units, has enough selection of special and heavy weapons to reasonably kit out the units you can make. $33 for 5, or $60 for 10.

MrKeef
01-12-2014, 01:05
It's going to take 3 kits bare minimum to update the sisters, probably about 6 to do it well. An easy way to close the gap would be to give them access to some of the kits that other codexs have but that would ruin their whole flavour I think.

No brainers:
1 HQ kit: make a plastic sister superior and/or living saint, like the fantasy empire wizard kit.
1/2 Troop Kit: Basic sisters, dominions, retributors, command squad.
1 Vehicle kit: Immolator, rhino, exorcist

Probable:
1 Flier kit: a flying church or something probably. If it's boxy enough it could double as a new ground vehicle or fortification.

Far out guess:
1 New kit: Make cultists/priests, also used for Chaos marines. Maybe just give them the fantasy flagellant kit?

brassangel
01-12-2014, 02:15
While I don't buy the rumor, I also don't think it will be 2 years out. We may see splash kit releases before a proper book though. Easier to do it that way then try to have a giant 8 week release window with a zillion kits. At their current pace, though, I doubt we'll wait too long.

MajorWesJanson
01-12-2014, 02:54
It's going to take 3 kits bare minimum to update the sisters, probably about 6 to do it well. An easy way to close the gap would be to give them access to some of the kits that other codexs have but that would ruin their whole flavour I think.

No brainers:
1 HQ kit: make a plastic sister superior and/or living saint, like the fantasy empire wizard kit.
1/2 Troop Kit: Basic sisters, dominions, retributors, command squad.
1 Vehicle kit: Immolator, rhino, exorcist

Probable:
1 Flier kit: a flying church or something probably. If it's boxy enough it could double as a new ground vehicle or fortification.

Far out guess:
1 New kit: Make cultists/priests, also used for Chaos marines. Maybe just give them the fantasy flagellant kit?

I'd probably have a different kit breakdown for my optimum release:

Troop box- 5 sisters, 1 ea flamer/melta/stormbolter/heavy flamer/multimelta 2 ea heavy bolter. Normal sergeant mix of pistols and ccw. Makes Sister squad (basic troop), dominion squad (veteran troop), retributor squad (HS).

HQ Box- 5 sisters, more elaborate armor. 2 ea special weapons. 1 ea combi-weapons including stake-bow/bolter. 2 ea pistol and special CCW options. Parts for Siamulcrum bearer, dialogus, medicae. Parts to upgrade to celestian superior/canoness. Works like the Tempestus box where it makes unit or command squad. Makes Canoness + Celestian Command Squad (HQ) or Celestian squad (Elite veterans artificer armor)

Tank Box- builds Exorcist/new tank.

Repentia box- makes sisters repentia/sister flagellants (updated arco flagellants)

Seraphim- two options- seraphim with dual pistols or seraphim with pistol/ccw options.

Flier- gunship like a sisters themed dark talon/nephilim, but with better rules

Confessor- clampack

Living Saint- monopose with a few options, larger sprue like the SAQ big mek.

Land Raider/Mobile Shrine- Land Raider hull, TL heavy flamer turret, quad heavy bolter sponsons, Sisters doors, icons, crew. Parts to remove transport capacity for mobile shrine addition on top.

jeffersonian000
01-12-2014, 04:25
Because if there's one way you're going to top space nuns with guns, it's space biker nuns with guns. :D



Power mace/ riot shield seems like more of an Arbites thing, but seeing as they're even less likely to appear than Sisters, I think this could make a pretty cool unit.

Renegade Nuns on Wheels (first supplement to "Macho Women with Guns" by BRTC, followed by "Batwinged Bimbos from Hell")

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Charistoph
01-12-2014, 04:37
I'd probably have a different kit breakdown for my optimum release:

Troop box- 5 sisters, 1 ea flamer/melta/stormbolter/heavy flamer/multimelta 2 ea heavy bolter. Normal sergeant mix of pistols and ccw. Makes Sister squad (basic troop), dominion squad (veteran troop), retributor squad (HS).

HQ Box- 5 sisters, more elaborate armor. 2 ea special weapons. 1 ea combi-weapons including stake-bow/bolter. 2 ea pistol and special CCW options. Parts for Siamulcrum bearer, dialogus, medicae. Parts to upgrade to celestian superior/canoness. Works like the Tempestus box where it makes unit or command squad. Makes Canoness + Celestian Command Squad (HQ) or Celestian squad (Elite veterans artificer armor)

Tank Box- builds Exorcist/new tank.

Repentia box- makes sisters repentia/sister flagellants (updated arco flagellants)

Seraphim- two options- seraphim with dual pistols or seraphim with pistol/ccw options.

Confessor- clampack

Living Saint- monopose with a few options, larger sprue like the SAQ big mek.


These will work till a codex release, at the minimum. It could even be argued that the Living Saint and Confessor would be worth saving till the book codex was released.


Flier- gunship like a sisters themed dark talon/nephilim, but with better rules

Eh, the Valkyrie/Vendetta could work here. Wouldn't even need a kit, but it WOULD need a dataslate to be made to work with the Sisters.

A new kit would need a dataslate before codex release, much like:

Land Raider/Mobile Shrine- Land Raider hull, TL heavy flamer turret, quad heavy bolter sponsons, Sisters doors, icons, crew. Parts to remove transport capacity for mobile shrine addition on top.

Would be cool. Maybe too much, but would be cool. Much like the recent Tyranocyte and the Flier above, would need a dataslate release before codex launch.

Spiney Norman
01-12-2014, 08:01
The best comparason would be the GK box- 5 models, makes 4 different units, has enough selection of special and heavy weapons to reasonably kit out the units you can make. $33 for 5, or $60 for 10.

You are talking about a set that was released over 3 1/2 yrs ago, I suspect if the GK box was released today it would be nearer the price of sternguard than its current price point.

It's also worth pointing out that 3 battle sisters for £10 is still cheaper than 5 grey knights for £20, but I guess we should drop the price discussion, the point is that converting to plastic rarely results in a drop in the price of figures, and never in a significant drop.




No brainers:
1 HQ kit: make a plastic sister superior and/or living saint, like the fantasy empire wizard kit.
1/2 Troop Kit: Basic sisters, dominions, retributors, command squad.
1 Vehicle kit: Immolator, rhino, exorcist

Probable:
1 Flier kit: a flying church or something probably. If it's boxy enough it could double as a new ground vehicle or fortification.

Far out guess:
1 New kit: Make cultists/priests, also used for Chaos marines. Maybe just give them the fantasy flagellant kit?

Am I the only one who really likes the current plastic sisters rhino/Immolator? Why are people clamouring for it to be remade? Remaking it would be totally superfluous, they'd be far better to just do a second kit for the exorcist that also made something else, either a repressor or a new kind of tank/mobile church.

Tastyfish
01-12-2014, 11:48
Presumably it'd be just a case of reducing the number of new codes and unique box covers by adding in the exorcist sprue to the immolator box - like the Hammerhead/Skyray set.

A.T.
01-12-2014, 12:21
Presumably it'd be just a case of reducing the number of new codes and unique box covers by adding in the exorcist sprue to the immolator box - like the Hammerhead/Skyray set.I'd imagine they'd just keep the boxes separate- charging £10+ just for adding a single extra sprue is good money for them.

MrKeef
01-12-2014, 14:18
You are talking about a set that was released over 3 1/2 yrs ago, I suspect if the GK box was released today it would be nearer the price of sternguard than its current price point.

It's also worth pointing out that 3 battle sisters for £10 is still cheaper than 5 grey knights for £20, but I guess we should drop the price discussion, the point is that converting to plastic rarely results in a drop in the price of figures, and never in a significant drop.



Am I the only one who really likes the current plastic sisters rhino/Immolator? Why are people clamouring for it to be remade? Remaking it would be totally superfluous, they'd be far better to just do a second kit for the exorcist that also made something else, either a repressor or a new kind of tank/mobile church.

Oh, I never realised it was all plastic, I thought it was a plastic metal hybrid. It still looks pretty good, so in that case it should stay, and make it an exorcist/new tank kit.

A.T.
01-12-2014, 14:54
Oh, I never realised it was all plastic, I thought it was a plastic metal hybrid.The exorcist is a metal kit that fits onto the immolator, but the immolator itself is just a plastic add-on sprue similar to the razorback.

Inquisitor Kallus
01-12-2014, 15:45
When did we all start subscribing to the fallacy that converting to plastic means a drop in price?
.

Most of the time its been true........

MajorWesJanson
02-12-2014, 07:17
You are talking about a set that was released over 3 1/2 yrs ago, I suspect if the GK box was released today it would be nearer the price of sternguard than its current price point.

Possible, but doubtful, as the GK box builds the core troop choice of that codex, while Sternguard are an elite slot. Scions are another example, fitting 5 troops with tons of options into a $35 box, and they are elites (troops in the Tempestus book) Sternguard are $50 mainly because space marines can make premium pricing work- see how Space marine clampack characters are $30, while the DE ones were $23.

But yes, pricing can go elsewhere.

Immolator/Rhino kit should stay exactly the same. its fully plastic, and equivalent to a space marine Rhino/razorback kit both in design and rules.
I'd bet the Sisters would love to get their hands on the Deimos Predator Infernus though- flamestorm cannon or magna melta turret, heavy bolter or heavy flamer sponsons (or lascannons), it fits their theme well.

corps
02-12-2014, 14:25
My analysis of the sisters for a complete redone (not a wishlist) no allies here. 1) weapons of humanity Let’ s take a look at what they have: Melee weapons Chainsword / power weapon /eviscerator that is 3 melee weapon only while the rulebook add heavy chainsword, lightning claw /granted this one is exclusive to the SM /power glove /thunder hammer / chainfist. I didn’t even check the GI and SM list of weapon I just stick to the very basic rulebook. That’s make few weapons avalaible.

Range weapons Basic and pistol Shotguns / storm bolter / combi flamer/melta/plasma / condemnor boltgun / plasma pistol The rule book add autopistol / autogun / laspistol / lasgun / hot shot las pistol / hot shot lasgun / hand flamer ( some units have it but not as a general rule). Inferno pistol like hand flamer. / stub gun.

special storm bolter / flamer / meltagun the rule book ad plasma gun

heavy heavy bolter / heavy flamer / multi melta the rule book add assault canon / auto canon / quad gun and macro canon only available with fortification. Sisters only AA./ Icarus las canon / multi laser /las canon/ missile launcher. So no frag/ krak and AA. Plasma canon / sniper rifle / heavy stubber

vehicule equippement storm bolter / dozer blade / extra armour / hunter killer missile / laud hailer. The rule book add the battle canon / Vulcan mega bolter and I forget some.

What does it means ? that’ s whithout having to compare to other codeces it s a list pretty dry and short. It means that your opponent will know what you will deploy with ridiculous ease. It s also means a boring game play. So I think it s necessary to break the fluff of the sacro saint trinity bolter/flamer/melta because it s means sister don’t have acces to aa and their vehicule can’t do much.

Etheir that or the hypothetical second troop unit should have acces to it. like militia/ pdf/…


II) the choice of troops Hq Canoness for years we want the jumpack back. Celestian. How promoting a celestian to an dialogus or hospitaler is an improvement since they lost a 1 ws going from ws4 to 3. Saint Celestine is good Jacobus has been downgrade… and we lost kirinov. Karamazov also if we count the inquisition link. Ministorum priest same problem with GI equivalent war hym are based on his LD of 7. So it s a 50/50 it’s a gamble. Also the troop he leads, the conclave have better ld than him. Troops One word boring! Because one choice and the leader is either a superior sister or a veteran sister superior.

The leadership lack of diversity is the same in all army so I won’t critics it. What bother me is the lack of diversity in weapon. Especially since no other choice like a pdf missile launcher team exist.combine this with short or template range or middle range weapon with a unit that can ride fragile vehicule or walk and you have a rather static army. Vehicules Rhino and imolator are fragile. That their only problem except when it s combine with the aforementioned troop problem. Elites Its s a compi past critic of the sister for the celestian. The repentia is smething that never worked. A fragil suiide unit that never reach the enemy or do anything against. Even no when they can ride a rhino. Plus two choices Fast attack Seraphim and dominion are expensive but at least useful.

Here it s again lack of weapon diversity that limit interest. Plus two choices. Heavy support One choice of troop, one close combat walker penitent engine that suffer the repentia syndrome as it s so fragile and it has to walk it s way… and the exorcist that could have been upgraded with AA but hasn’t been. Meaning that the army chance to have AA is gone…. All of this to say before even going to the minis problem what with have here is a dry, boring and umaginative army that is slow and fragile. It s like the storm trooper a downgrade over costed space marine. A more coherent faith system like the one in the wich hunter book. Actually one use only or twice by paying even more is not working.

Now that is done what are the option: A black Templar solution.

The second choice of troop is made of novices in carapace armour using lasgun with more weapons option meaning breakin the sacro saint weapon trilogy. That could be either one box like 5 sister / ten novice. Or ten sister with the option for making them celestian / dominion/ retributor. But I prefer to have a dual kit instead of having too many spare parts. So the dual kits ( al with more weapons option) should be 1) sister / novice 2) sister / celestian (including hospitaler and dialogus for a command squad) 3) dominion / retributory The sister should have at least a superior plus the possibility to transform it into a canoness in a sister/ celestian box if the canoness still can’t have acces to a jump pack. 4) a seraphim box with a possibility to have a superior/ canoness with jump pack or saint Celestine. 5) a conclave box starter with the equivalent of the 5 minis box of cultist to add other minis. With the possibility to creat uriah or kirinov 6) a rhino/ immolator dual kit or a immolator / exorcist dual kit + a rhino / new AA vehicule 7) a repentia / something else dual kit 8) penitent engine / something else dual kit 9) a flying transport / flying attack craft dual kit. 10 a blitz box for converting a land raider because the army need to transport big unit. That’s a 10 box solution, so a complete rethinking redone of the army very similar to the DE treatment.

Second option Auxiliary solution Nothing change for the weapon diversity. But PDF/ auxilia/ redemptionits/ arbites etc etc are part of the army It s this part that could have acces to more weapon diversity like a missile launcher. That could give. So the dual kits ( al with more weapons option) should be 1) militia/ pdf or redemptionist or arbites 2) a cavalry box. 3) sister / celestian (including hospitaler and dialogus for a command squad) 4) dominion / retributory The sister should have at least a superior plus the possibility to transform it into a canoness in a sister/ celestian box if the canoness still can’t have acces to a jump pack. 5) a seraphim box with a possibility to have a superior/ canoness with jump pack or saint Celestine. 6) a conclave box starter with the equivalent of the 5 minis box of cultist to add other minis. With the possibility to creat uriah or kirinov 7) a rhino/ immolator dual kit or a immolator / exorcist dual kit + a rhino / new AA vehicule 8) a repentia / something else dual kit 9) penitent engine / something else dual kit 10) a flying transport / flying attack craft dual kit. 11) a blitz box for converting a land raider because the army need to transport big unit. Alternately a blitz box to give leman russ and other GI guard a pdf look. The pdf should be limited in their vehicules choice. That’s a 11 box solution, so again a complete rethinking redone of the army very similar to the DE treatment. Hope my analysis helps as I didn’t make it as wishlist in mind but as an approache to what length GW has to go to change the current army.

I feel that the army can’t be redone with just a box.

A.T.
02-12-2014, 15:02
Now that is done what are the option: A black Templar solution.
The second choice of troop is made of novices in carapace armour using lasgun with more weapons option meaning breakin the sacro saint weapon trilogy.There isn't really any sense giving them lasguns.

As a unit it should be noted that in 6th and onwards x points of combined initiate/neophytes were broadly inferior to x points of pure initiates unless faced with significant AV3 firepower (ignoring that you can't take more than 10 initiates of course - but the sisters don't have that limitation).

That's not to dismiss the unit as a concept, just to note that a combined unit with no other tricks up it's sleeves is somewhat redundant - mixing battle sisters and novicae just doesn't achieve anything that larger squads of battle sisters don't already provide. Novicae/veteran celestians are much easier to differentiate from the elite celestian squads.



Second option Auxiliary solution Nothing change for the weapon diversity. But PDF/ auxilia/ redemptionits/ arbites etc etc are part of the army It s this part that could have acces to more weapon diversity like a missile launcher.Militia/fanatics/etc are fine but when you start to get to things like missile launchers you should be looking at an imperial guard allied force - they are battle brothers and mix straight in.

Charistoph
02-12-2014, 15:17
I feel that the army can’t be redone with just a box.

I don't think many of us are saying they can be. Most of the Sisters can be done with one box, though I don't think they should. Repentia, Serephim, Penitent Engine, and the Exorcist are obviously things that won't be covered by them, not even including the Hospitaller, Missionary, and Dialogus.


Militia/fanatics/etc are fine but when you start to get to things like missile launchers you should be looking at an imperial guard allied force - they are battle brothers and mix straight in.

Indeed. Another reason why I suggested adding in the Arbites. They could be used in ways like Scouting or such in which the Sisters just don't have in their known Lexicon or outside their general pervue.



As a little side note while I was refreshing my memory, I noticed that the box for the Sisters is back up on the site ready to order. For 80 USD/50 pounds. Grey Knight 5 man Strike squad is $33, 10 man is $60. So, yeah, price drop even if they go all out like the Grey Knights.

A.T.
02-12-2014, 15:36
Indeed. Another reason why I suggested adding in the Arbites. They could be used in ways like Scouting or such in which the Sisters just don't have in their known Lexicon or outside their general pervue.It's cutting into any sisters release though - one box of arbites models is one less box of sisters/ecclesiarchy models, and one or more less units for the sororitas as a result.

corps
02-12-2014, 15:42
I said lasguns to add diversity. But lasgun aren't my main point. You are right about mixed unit value i did prefer a another box of iniate. Same for the arbites but i think a dual kit arbites / pdf or militia will add more option. True a lot of player don't believe in an one box solution from what i read. My analysis was precisely about explaining why it shouldn't be done with one box. i thought it was a good analysis in that regard.

A.T.
02-12-2014, 16:00
My analysis was precisely about explaining why it shouldn't be done with one box. i thought it was a good analysis in that regard.The army has been sidelined for so long that literally anything new on the model front is akin to the second coming of the messiah. A new plastic kit, any plastic kit represents an investment from GW that the line hasn't seen for more than a decade.

darius-god-of-biscuits
02-12-2014, 17:06
Well - if we are wishlisting here - I hope for the return of something like the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (or Arbites or Henchman).

Allowing Celestians to take storm-bolters as standard would be great.

Use of a land raider would be nice.

I don't expect the rhino/immolator kit to change but they could add a whirlwind-type version of the exorcist weapon to the kit.

The holy trinity of bolter-melta-flamer should stay as the basic weapons for sisters.

corps
02-12-2014, 17:26
i was not wishlisting and i was clear about it. it s not a wislist thread.

Voss
02-12-2014, 17:28
Pretty sure it was moved to general because it is entirely a wishlisting thread.

And hypothetical second troop choices and novice units are really wishlisty.

corps
02-12-2014, 17:31
Fine, you see it that way i don't. i will just agree to disagree.

A.T.
02-12-2014, 17:32
I hope for the return of something like the Inquisitorial Storm TroopersA missed opportunity for a scions detachment type IMO. Perhaps they'll look at it again if/when they drag the inquisition ebook out of 5th edition.

alextroy
03-12-2014, 05:10
Given the 2 year timeframe of the rumor, I think it is safe to say nothing about what will be in the Adepta Sororitas release when it comes. GW Development probably only has the barest hint so why should anyone else know anything. With that in my, here is my “Thinking Like GW” Wishlist for Sisters of Battle.

Battle Sisters Box – Think Tactical Squad Box. It would be 10 Sisters with bolters, all the special and heavy weapons, a Combi-Weapon, and an assortment of pistols and melee weapons for the Sister Superior. Knowing GW, there will be some new special AS only weapon to give the army that unique feel. Would be everything you need (given enough boxes for special and heavy weapons) to make Battle Sister, Dominion, and Retributor squads.

“Veteran” Sister Combo Box – Think Death Company Box or Deathwing Terminator box. It would be 5 Sisters in extra ornate armor along with an assortment of weapons to arm them with bolters, pistols, or close combat weapons along with standard backpacks and Serephim Jump Packs. Box could be used to make Celestain, Serephim, Command Squads and a new Assault Celestain Squad (pistols and Melee weapons on foot) because the codex needs more units.

Repentia/New Unit Combo Box – Redo the Repentia without the stripper vibe, say in plainish carapace armor similar to that of the Sister Hosptialer. Allow them to use a variety of melee weapons from Chainswords, Heavy Chainswords, and the occasional Evicerator. Make it a 10 model box, one of which is the Mistress in her Power Armor. For the second unit, include different heads and ranged weapons to create a Noviate squad of 9 novices with a mistress as a new Troops Choice. Win, Win, Win.

New Tank Kit Box – Because the current Exorcist needs to go. Create a dual kit that makes an Exorcist and either an Anti-Air Tank, or a Predator type tank using the Holy Trinity weapons of Bolter, Melta, Flamer only more powerful weapons then the Immolator.

New AS Flyer Combo Box – GW know what they will come up with. I'd be happy with the Valkyrie and Vendetta, but there is no proper Vendetta kit.

Cannoness Clamshell – Because everybody needs one. Hopefully with a small assortment of weapon choices.

Priest Clamshell - Because they need a plastic model also... or you can just drop the boys from the ladies army and leave them for AM.

Firaxin
03-12-2014, 06:45
The holy trinity of bolter-melta-flamer should stay as the basic weapons for sisters.

What about stakes? We have precedents of bolter-stake crossbows and power stakes. They could add a new unit type wielding all stake-somethings with special anti-psyker rules, and reinforce the idea of Sisters being a counter to armies that try to min-max warp charges.

As for models, I just want minis that aren't so obviously targeted to horny teenagers. Gently sloping power armor rather than clingy wetsuit power armor, for example...

Colonel Mayhem
03-12-2014, 07:51
Seeing how GW made stormtroopers into an army I wouldn't be surprised to see Sisters receive one box of 10 plastic sisters and a codex. Maybe a command/veteran box as well.

Ambience 327
03-12-2014, 16:32
Repentia/New Unit Combo Box – Redo the Repentia without the stripper vibe, say in plainish carapace armor similar to that of the Sister Hosptialer. Allow them to use a variety of melee weapons from Chainswords, Heavy Chainswords, and the occasional Evicerator. Make it a 10 model box, one of which is the Mistress in her Power Armor. For the second unit, include different heads and ranged weapons to create a Noviate squad of 9 novices with a mistress as a new Troops Choice. Win, Win, Win.

This is such a great suggestion. Repentia are definitely among my least favorite Imperial models due to, as you call it, the "stripper vibe". Reinventing them as penitents in Carapace Armour (because they are still valuable, if dishonored), and making them a combo-kit with Novitiates (and both squads being led by a Mistress type model in Power Armour), is simply genius. Hopefully GW catches on to this!

A.T.
03-12-2014, 16:38
This is such a great suggestion. Repentia are definitely among my least favorite Imperial models due to, as you call it, the "stripper vibe".To some degree that comes from them having too much armour - the images they are based on are horrific rather than stripperific and they were sanitised. The whip wielding dominatrix doesn't help though.

Carapace armour ... how would you avoid making them scions with chainswords? Visually that is.

corps
03-12-2014, 17:09
The repentia are a aesthetic problem and an utiliy problem. I prefer the sigmarites sister from mordheim if i want to play repentia. They are more in the spirit of the game.

Ambience 327
03-12-2014, 17:42
Carapace armour ... how would you avoid making them scions with chainswords? Visually that is.

A bit slimmer, female lines without being skin-tight suits. And of course, robes and tabards like on the Power Armoured Sisters. That, coupled with more Sisterly helmets and lots of fleur de lis should do the trick.

A.T.
03-12-2014, 17:52
A bit slimmer, female lines without being skin-tight suits. And of course, robes and tabards like on the Power Armoured Sisters. That, coupled with more Sisterly helmets and lots of fleur de lis should do the trick.I can see it for novicae.
I think it's losing the uniqueness of the repentia for the sake of being prudish though. Far too reserved and practical.

Spiney Norman
04-12-2014, 06:49
I can see it for novicae.
I think it's losing the uniqueness of the repentia for the sake of being prudish though. Far too reserved and practical.

Repentia do need greater resilience to make them viable, but I'm not sure giving them armour is the way forward (though back in 3rd when they were first introduced the current models did have a 4+ AS iirc), laying aside your power armour for a slightly less protective suit of carapace armour doesn't seem like such a pronounced act of contrition to me.

I'm also interested in what Novicae would offer to the army, if they are just 4+ battle sisters, maybe with a guardsman BS I'm really not sure why I would ever take them, our scout angle is already covered by Dominions (and to be honest that would just make them feel a bit too much like SM scouts). What would the purpose of Novicae be?

A.T.
04-12-2014, 09:04
Repentia do need greater resilience to make them viable, but I'm not sure giving them armour is the way forwardFnP and a seraphim style shield of faith reroll would nearly double their durability out of cover. Having the bigger squads and cheaper cc weapon armed repentia to absorb wounds would make a world of difference though - two repentia with eviscerators are bolter fodder, four repentia with one eviscerator between them are a bit more of a problem, especially when scaled up to a 20-30 model squad.



I'm also interested in what Novicae would offer to the army, if they are just 4+ battle sisters, maybe with a guardsman BS I'm really not sure why I would ever take them, our scout angle is already covered by Dominions (and to be honest that would just make them feel a bit too much like SM scouts). What would the purpose of Novicae be?As I mentioned in another post this is a problem the templars have with their neophytes. Sister novicae also don't fit thematically into traditional SM scout roles of sniper or infiltrator as you say.

The two practical purposes I can see for them are -
1) Paired up with veteran celestians as a light counter-assault/vehicle bubblewrap troops choice to deal with deepstrikers and outflankers.
2) Filling out a sisters hospitaller unit

Born Again
04-12-2014, 10:14
I've always liked this (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/OxayotlTheGreat/Hunting-To-Conduct-The-Inquisition-The-Hunters-The-Sisters-The-Battle-1920x2560_zps316e26da.png) look for Repentia, sure there's still a lot of naked skin there, but when it's covered in religious texts stuck through with giant needles, it's fitting with that messed up, religious fanatic thing the Ecclisiarchy should have going on, and it doesn't come across as sexy (unless you have specific tastes).

Kit wise, could they be done sharing a kit with Frateris Militia? They could both have floor length robes as the bottom half... it would take different torsos, arms/ weapons and heads to make it work. Could be done though if options for the unit were limited.

alextroy
04-12-2014, 12:49
A bit slimmer, female lines without being skin-tight suits. And of course, robes and tabards like on the Power Armoured Sisters. That, coupled with more Sisterly helmets and lots of fleur de lis should do the trick.

No Fleur de lis on the Armor! Penitents have lost the honor and Novitiates haven't earned it yet.

As for what could Novitiates add to the army? Remove any faith powers from the unit, reduce BS to 3, allow large squad sizes, and you have a horde element you can add to the army. Not that Hordes are viable in the current game, but that is an overall game issue.

A.T.
04-12-2014, 14:37
As for what could Novitiates add to the army? Remove any faith powers from the unit, reduce BS to 3, allow large squad sizes, and you have a horde element you can add to the army.Hordes are more the area of zealots/frateris.

A semi-horde 4+ save T3, S3, BS3, WS3 unit with no special abilities ... You could take a squad of inquisition acolytes in carapace with laspistol & cc weapon, a squad of 10 with three melta guns is 110pts but it's not a particularly good unit for the cost.

corps
04-12-2014, 16:44
Hordes are more the area of zealots/frateris. Could they be like the units found in the Siege of Vrak or Badab War Sub IG guard unit like. Or like the ganger unit in the Armageddon codex.

A.T.
04-12-2014, 17:01
Could they be like the units found in the Siege of Vrak or Badab War Sub IG guard unit like.The vraks stuff, most recently updated in IA13, are basically guard platoons.

The closest modern match would arguably be the IA13 traitor rabble with the hammer of wrath effect (or a more loyalist-suitable random chart) - give them the option to have multiple 'champions' with eviscerators or flamers and the other bells and whistles and you'd have a half decent base.

Depends on how much you want to look back to the frateris/zealots of older editions (the old cavalry for instance).

corps
04-12-2014, 17:11
Well i still have the rules the cavalry. i m still fond of them. i can't find the ganger and that' s annoy me because i can't use them to compare with other units.

A.T.
04-12-2014, 17:52
i can't find the ganger and that' s annoy me because i can't use them to compare with other units. If you can't find a copy of armageddon however you might want to try Chapter Approved 2003 - there is a hive gang squad in there, and they are Ld5 guardsmen with no armour and nothing but a lasgun, laspistol, or shotgun (no armour or grenades) for a point more than the IA13 rabble.

corps
04-12-2014, 18:02
The chem dogs?

corps
04-12-2014, 18:19
Okay i found it. They have similar ws, bs etc with lower leadership for gang and same for the leader. Their weapons are similar to those of teh guard, one special one heavy but more varied than the cultist. THe leader has acces to IG equipement. they can't embark. All this need a few adjustements like being able to use chimera.

A.T.
04-12-2014, 18:24
All this need a few adjustements like being able to use chimera.When you've got a unit of flak armour, lasgun wielding, chimera riding troops with the option to take lascannons, plasmacannons, heavy stubbers, etc - it's a guard unit. It should be in the guard codex.

corps
04-12-2014, 18:25
I disagree they are more like the cultist for me.

A.T.
04-12-2014, 18:30
I disagree they are more like the cultist for me.Sororitas are battle brothers with the guard, they can pull in BS3/WS3/lasgun/chimera squads already.

The CSMs cultists only exist because a)they can't get guardsmen, and b)they have distinct elements like marks. The hive gangers on the other hand aren't particularly distinct from the guard, which is unsurprising given that they are an old IG unit.

theJ
05-12-2014, 10:21
I think my take on Novicae would be robes and bolters. No save outside of cover, but okay firepower and large numbers for very little cost, perfect for holding an objective or defensive position while the "real" sisters take the fight to the enemy.
Alternately, long range support with rifles... still wearing robes - I like robes.

Speaking of robes, that'd also be a good direction for Repentia(they forsake the trappings of a full battle sister, and instead clothe themselves as other not-yet-worthies, I.E. Novicae), meaning those two could be dual-kitted with ease - one option gets bolters, the other eviscerators. Scratching defenses on Repentia altogether justifies a biiig price drop, making them a gamble unit with a pricetag to match(fail the gamle, they get gunned down before they reach the opponent, but if they reach the enemy, those Eviscerators should strike FAR above the Repentias' meagre pointscost against most targets).

A.T.
05-12-2014, 10:44
Scratching defenses on Repentia altogether justifies a biiig price dropThey don't have any defences left to scratch, save for the 6+ shield of faith.

corps
05-12-2014, 12:00
I like the idea of the robes. Repentia before their rewrite use to seek absolution in battle. this part doesn't change. What change is that before if they succed they could come back in the rank. Now they will die only. That 's quite remove some off the charm. I prefer an aproach that includes some form of armor and not only faith. The sister are an elite army i don't see them wasting novicia by waves like IG imperial Guard. So carapace or even flak plus robes plus faith.

Charistoph
05-12-2014, 14:41
Maybe the Novicae could be given Hunting Rifles? Long-ranged basic weapons with a range to keep them out of danger, but low Str and low RoF to keep them cheap. Flak under robes makes sense and doesn't even really need any different modeling.

As for Repentia, wouldn't they be a candidate for Heavy Chainswords and can upgrade to the Eviscerators?

A.T.
05-12-2014, 14:56
As for Repentia, wouldn't they be a candidate for Heavy Chainswords and can upgrade to the Eviscerators?Choice of two cc weapons or a two handed weapon/heavy chainsword would seem to work well enough and match with the original artwork.

The novicae are starting to resemble kroot.

corps
05-12-2014, 15:15
The novicae are starting to resemble kroot. hum hope they still look human and don't bite the flesh.

Desteele
07-12-2014, 14:12
I've always liked this (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/OxayotlTheGreat/Hunting-To-Conduct-The-Inquisition-The-Hunters-The-Sisters-The-Battle-1920x2560_zps316e26da.png) look for Repentia, sure there's still a lot of naked skin there, but when it's covered in religious texts stuck through with giant needles, it's fitting with that messed up, religious fanatic thing the Ecclisiarchy should have going on, and it doesn't come across as sexy (unless you have specific tastes).
So you want Ranging Heros to produce their new Kick Starter then :)
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/728/384/3f063e80d768d40da1af2a8055223815_large.jpg?1394423 809

jeffersonian000
07-12-2014, 15:13
I miss the original Repentia, a duel-pistol wielding lone Battle Sister bent on suicidal redemption. You only gained VP if she died, while your opponent gained VP if she lived. That was a neat concept back in the day, and was so good in fact that the Space Wolves stole it for their very own Lone Wolves unit.

As to the rest, I disagree that Sisters need new units. The last thing they need is a return of Fratris Militia. A plastic Exorcist would be great, as would an updated BSS plastic kit, 10 Sisters with a set of heavy and special weapon options would be great. Save the Combi kits for a 5 Sister Celestian set, and add a plastic Seraphim set. Keep the Immolator set as is. Release a printed Codex.

If GW does just that, they will breath new life into their Sisters of Battle army. Yes, functional Rroentia would be nice, but they were never really necessary. Yes, functional Penitent Engines would be great, yet much line Repentia, they aren't necessary. Sure, a flyer would be great, and a plastic Arvis Lander/Gunship would be a nice addition to the game while giving the Sisters a unique kit for their unique look, but is it necessary?

I just want an actual codex, in print, and some plastic kits of the base units. With just that, I'd be content.

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A.T.
07-12-2014, 19:56
I miss the original Repentia, a duel-pistol wielding lone Battle Sister bent on suicidal redemption.I thought the original repentia were unit add-ons for battle sisters that would remain if the unit was routed in combat and gain the faithful rule if they somehow managed to go on and win the fight? Same chapter approved as the 3rd ed praxedes rules IIRC.

Ar-Ulric
08-12-2014, 03:16
Repentia/New Unit Combo Box

They could potentially do the duel kit as being either Repentia or Death Cult Assassins.

harlekin
08-12-2014, 07:54
They could potentially do the duel kit as being either Repentia or Death Cult Assassins.

That would be possible, at least if they keep the the similar sense of motion.

Besides this the concept of the penitent/salvation-seeking/lone wolf unit would be quite cool imho - something like whfb dwarf slayers?

Also I was not aware of the original armament - something that can be included aswell I think, maybe rending pistols?

Born Again
08-12-2014, 08:04
So you want Ranging Heros to produce their new Kick Starter then :)
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/728/384/3f063e80d768d40da1af2a8055223815_large.jpg?1394423 809

Possibly, but like most Raging Heroes stuff it's still very sexual, and plainly ripped-off in concept. I'd be interested in seeing them when they're done, but I'd hope for GW ones to be a little more disturbing that the RH illustration shows.

A.T.
08-12-2014, 11:15
Also I was not aware of the original armament - something that can be included aswell I think, maybe rending pistols?She was drawn with two pistols in John Blanch's original drawing (Inquisitor sketchbook), but I think the rest is a mis-remembering. Andy Hoare's rules in Citadel Journal 49 gave her a pistol and cc weapon - unless there was another set of rules squeezed in between the journal and the 3e dex.
More recently there were the sisters Oblatia from the dark heresy games who were lone wolves and had some similarities to the old Blanch repentia.

aprilmanha
08-12-2014, 11:28
Possibly, but like most Raging Heroes stuff it's still very sexual, and plainly ripped-off in concept. I'd be interested in seeing them when they're done, but I'd hope for GW ones to be a little more disturbing that the RH illustration shows.

I think you hit the nails on the head there.
There is nothing sexual scrolls being nailed to a rabid crazy person who then charges into battle.

There is something sexual using scrolls to make tiny bikinis and then standing around in "strutting" poses.

jeffersonian000
08-12-2014, 16:22
I thought the original repentia were unit add-ons for battle sisters that would remain if the unit was routed in combat and gain the faithful rule if they somehow managed to go on and win the fight? Same chapter approved as the 3rd ed praxedes rules IIRC.

Oh, I'm referring to 2nd Ed Sisters, not 3rd Ed.

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A.T.
08-12-2014, 18:34
Oh, I'm referring to 2nd Ed Sisters, not 3rd Ed.I'm not familiar with the rules in that case. I had no idea repentia existed prior to their entry in the Inquisitor sketchbook in 2001 but i'd stopped reading white dwarf by that point.

jeffersonian000
08-12-2014, 23:37
Sisters of Battle rules first appear at the end of 2nd Ed as a White Dwarf army list (just like Necrons).

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A.T.
09-12-2014, 00:09
Sisters of Battle rules first appear at the end of 2nd Ed as a White Dwarf army list (just like Necrons).Perhaps in was only in the US white dwarf magazines then. In the UK they printed an excerpt from the codex a month before its release and that was the first anyone had seen of the sisters since their rules in the 2nd edition box set.

Commissar Merces
09-12-2014, 13:54
When (IF) Sisters come out, here is what I would like to see their force organization chart looking like.

HQ
Canoness (complete with jump pack option)
Priest
Jacobus
Saint Celestine
Confessor
Command squad

Elites
Repentia
Celestines
Shrine tank of some kind providing bonuses to sisters acts of faith.

Troops
Battle Sisters
Militia/Zealots
Rhino
Repressor
Immolator

Fast Attack
Seraphim
Dominons
Dog fighting flyer/Bomber
A hellhound look alike on a rhino chassis (Fast vehicle, torrent).

Heavy Support
Retributors
Exorcist
Penitent Engines

Looking at this list, you really don't need that many boxes.

The faithful box (repentia/milita/priests/confessor)
The sisters box (ten sisters)
Retribution box (five sisters, heavy weapons options similar to the devastators)
Clam pack Canoness
Exorcist/Relic vehicle dual kit
Seraphim kit
Rhino/immolator/flame tank trio kit
Flyer/Bomber kit
Penitent engines

A.T.
09-12-2014, 14:48
A hellhound look alike on a rhino chassis (Fast vehicle, torrent).An immolator? They were originally fast vehicles with inferno cannons before being razorbacked. And all transports are being moved into the FA slot in the new books.

No acro flagellants, crusaders, or death cultists?

Your 'faithful box' looks pretty optimistic in terms of content. I can't really see frateris and repentia being rolled together, and while I could see a priest thrown in the box GW would likely want to sell them as a separate model as well as distinct packs for confessors, Jacobus, and a potential kyrinov.


As a codex it's still pretty lean on options. Without a rules overhaul would the typical SoB list look any different, save for more jump canonesses and bubblewrap?

If you were a teen-aged marine, eldar, or similar player what is going to draw you to this army? Where is GW's big selling point here?

Dominoris
09-12-2014, 15:00
If you were a teen-aged marine, eldar, or similar player what is going to draw you to this army? Where is GW's big selling point here?
Boobs, of course. :p

corps
09-12-2014, 20:50
and not kyrinov?

MrKeef
10-12-2014, 00:27
If you were a teen-aged marine, eldar, or similar player what is going to draw you to this army? Where is GW's big selling point here?

Well this is the only female army. It's also the most fanatically religious army, as Black Templars were neutered. After Guard, Sisters are the most human army so they're also the most relatable.

There's a lot going for them, if they were given the support. We've been talking about just redoing the current/old range but odds are they will have a Wraithknight/Riptide/Trygon sized model that will probably draw a large audience in its own.

ntw3001
10-12-2014, 01:49
I feel like people get too bogged down in trying to figure out the single extra-special thing that will make players choose Sisters. It's the same as any other army: People will buy them if they like the look of them. Most of 40k is moving away from the gothic look and turning more generic, so the niche is wide open. Nothing available is similar to Sisters, so as long as the rules work and the models are decent, they'll have an audience.

MrKeef
10-12-2014, 02:01
@ntw3001 you know, I hadn't realised that until you said it. What was the last model that GW released that was any kind of gothic?

I can think of a lot of FW stuff, but that doesn't count, I'm thinking main range.

A.T.
10-12-2014, 08:53
I feel like people get too bogged down in trying to figure out the single extra-special thing that will make players choose SistersThey need something as the all female gothic niche didn't establish them the first two times. I don't think it's one big unit though, I think they failed because they've only ever been half an army - GW pretty much stating they don't have faith in the army going forwards from day one.



@ntw3001 you know, I hadn't realised that until you said it. What was the last model that GW released that was any kind of gothic?Plastic chaplain?

harlekin
10-12-2014, 09:16
They need something as the all female gothic niche didn't establish them the first two times. I don't think it's one big unit though, I think they failed because they've only ever been half an army - GW pretty much stating they don't have faith in the army going forwards from day one.


Plastic chaplain?

I would count the Deathwing Knights too

Charistoph
10-12-2014, 13:56
They need something as the all female gothic niche didn't establish them the first two times. I don't think it's one big unit though, I think they failed because they've only ever been half an army - GW pretty much stating they don't have faith in the army going forwards from day one.

I don't believe so. A lot of armies were pretty small when Sisters first came out. Since then most went to plastic, but putting Sisters in plastic and maintaining their look was a severe challenge up until recently (according to some rumors). Pretty hard to maintain an all-metal army when every other army out there is in plastic for even just the basic troops.

A.T.
10-12-2014, 14:37
I don't believe so. A lot of armies were pretty small when Sisters first came out.Most armies didn't include a disclaimer from the author suggesting you not play them without allies to fill all the holes in the list...

Charistoph
10-12-2014, 14:39
Most armies didn't include a disclaimer from the author suggesting you not play them without allies to fill all the holes in the list...

Was that in the early Rogue Trader days or 2nd Edition, or are you talking about Witchhunters?

A.T.
10-12-2014, 14:51
Was that in the early Rogue Trader days or 2nd Edition, or are you talking about Witchhunters?The 2nd edition codex.

The witch hunters codex was an implicitly allied book (coming as it did with it's own special allying rules), and the earlier sisters were part of the imperial agents allies section of 2nd ed.
I don't think the early 3e sisters were listed as allies though.

ntw3001
11-12-2014, 01:46
They need something as the all female gothic niche didn't establish them the first two times. I don't think it's one big unit though, I think they failed because they've only ever been half an army - GW pretty much stating they don't have faith in the army going forwards from day one.

What I really mean is that people seem to be asking of Sisters 'does this tie into what young people like?', while giving a pass to other, more established armies. Tyranids aren't expected to be playing into some preexisting market of teenage space-locust enthusiasts, so why do Sisters need to piggyback? They have a distinct look and they slot perfectly well into the list of available armies.

The real difficulty I see is something that would be the case for any (effectively) new army. Fewer new players are starting 40k these days, meaning the pool of people actively seeking to adopt a new army is smaller then ever. Sadly, the most effective solution to that is probably to make an overpowered Codex. Shrug. Lots and lots of new people, unless they see something that really resonates with them, will just plump for whatever their peers say is effective.

Or they could put Sisters in a starter box. But SMs vs Sisters isn't quite the iconic matchup they tend to look for, and they're not ditching SMs.

jeffersonian000
11-12-2014, 06:27
You have your editions wrong. 2nd Ed Sisters was a stand alone army, just like every other 2nd Ed army. Witch Hunters was 3rd Ed, and had built-in Allying rules, the same as Daemonhunters.

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A.T.
11-12-2014, 08:58
You have your editions wrong. 2nd Ed Sisters was a stand alone army, just like every other 2nd Ed army.Sisters of Battle 2nd edition, page 48, Using the army list : "Unlike other army lists, such as Ultramarines or Orks, the Adeptus Ministorum army list is mainly intended to provide a source of allies for Imperial Guard, Space Marine and other Imperial Agents armies.
The Adeptus Ministorum can be used as a complete army list in its own right, but you will find it lacks certain elements such as support and heavy weapons. While it is possible to fight a straight battle with this army, it is far better suited for use in campaigns and special scenarios."
The same page states that as you play in higher point games the lack of heavy and support weapons and psykers will increasingly hobble the army.

Next page, ministorum characters have special dispensation to be used as HQs and squad leaders for Imperial Guard armies, and unlike every other army in 2nd edition they have a special 25% allies allowance that does not count against their support allocation - the author stating "due to its weakness in certain areas, allies are very important to an Adeptus Ministorum army and can be used to counter some of these deficiencies." There is also a section on using them as allies to other armies.

Haravikk
11-12-2014, 13:50
Sisters of Battle 2nd edition, page 48, Using the army list : [I]"Unlike other army lists, such as Ultramarines or Orks, the Adeptus Ministorum army list is mainly intended to provide a source of allies for Imperial Guard, Space Marine and other Imperial Agents armies.
I'm not sure that's as much of an issue now that we have the Exorcist and Penitent Engines as options; plus tanks and psykers aren't quite as powerful as they could be back then, so a lack of them isn't a big deal anymore as many armies function fine without a psyker.

Regarding the discussion about cheaper troops, I definitely think a Frateris Militia unit is the way to go rather than weaker sisters. But I'd go towards full-blown mob; basically a human swarm unit representing a crush of zealots barely functioning as individuals, as opposed to chaos cultists who may have once been guardsmen etc., the frateris militia are pure civilians riled up on dogma. Making them kind of like swarms would distinguish them, plus it would avoid them being even cheaper than the already very inexpensive chaos cultists.

A.T.
11-12-2014, 15:07
I'm not sure that's as much of an issue now that we have the Exorcist and Penitent Engines as optionsI tried the penitent engine out again last week, and was pleasantly surprised when the shield of faith saved it from an explodes result from the first shot fired at it.

Unfortunately it then lagged behind the rest of the army, kind of got in the way a bit, failed a charge, and then got hullpointed by a passing tyranid drop pod in a single round of shooting.

To be fair it was better than their last couple of outings.

Haravikk
11-12-2014, 16:11
I tried the penitent engine out again last week, and was pleasantly surprised when the shield of faith saved it from an explodes result from the first shot fired at it.
I like using the full three; and at the very least, if they're being shot to pieces then that's something else in the army that isn't. This is something they were actually better at with the White Dwarf rules after 6th edition turned Rage into an advantage, as their damage potential was huge, forcing an enemy to destroy them or risk having just about anything wiped out in a single round of combat (I once managed 11 hits and just reduced a unit to paste). The current rules don't quite have the same damage potential, but are a lot more consistent, but I think the threat of the previous random profile was more potent overall. Still, they hit hard and aren't too expensive, their main issue is that everyone would rather take three Exorcists if they can. If they occupied the Elites slot like Space Marine Dreadnoughts then I'd expect to see them a lot more.

That wasn't really my point though; rather what I mean is that you could consider the 2nd edition list incomplete because we lacked anything heavier than an immolator at that time, which is likely why it recommended allies. Now that that isn't the case it should be possible to make a viable codex, even if the army is smaller overall than others. Obviously the fact that they managed to mess up the codex even with the handful of units we do have is disappointing but that's almost certainly a lack of development rather than a lack of potential; we have a decent mix of units, we just need them to actually work better and have faith powers feel like more than an after-thought, and we could have a great list. I'd still like some friteris militia chaff to throw around so I'm not relying on penitent engines being a distraction, but we'll be lucky just to have GW start releasing plastic versions of what we have, anything new would be icing on the cake.

Vet.Sister
12-12-2014, 15:04
*snip*



That wasn't really my point though; rather what I mean is that you could consider the 2nd edition list incomplete because we lacked anything heavier than an immolator at that time, which is likely why it recommended allies. Now that that isn't the case it should be possible to make a viable codex, even if the army is smaller overall than others. Obviously the fact that they managed to mess up the codex even with the handful of units we do have is disappointing but that's almost certainly a lack of development rather than a lack of potential; we have a decent mix of units, we just need them to actually work better and have faith powers feel like more than an after-thought, and we could have a great list. I'd still like some friteris militia chaff to throw around so I'm not relying on penitent engines being a distraction, but we'll be lucky just to have GW start releasing plastic versions of what we have, anything new would be icing on the cake.

I have to agree. Even if we only have the units we have now, they should be able to form a functional codex. A few small changes and a few units could really shine. Immolators for example; if you could voluntarily remove the transport capacity to gain +1 front armor and the ability to be a FAST vehicle. (ofc it would be a Fast Attack option in the FOC) Put Penitent Engines in Elites and change their rules to relentlessly pursue/attack a unit chosen at the beginning of the game instead of whatever is near them. Lastly, any Basic Sisters squad or Retributor squad that chooses NOT to purchase a transport may instead purchase a Defensive Wall. (mission permitting ofc)

I (like most other Adepta Sororitas players) have already backed up the dump truck full of salt and buried this rumor. I used to have hope about a Battle Sisters army, and then GW happened.... :mad:

Hrw-Amen
12-12-2014, 19:42
Not sure I like the look of the SOB graphic that is in White Dwarf this week along with Gabriel Seth. OK, it is not a model, but the look seems somewhat skinny and I don't know, plastic and un-gothic. OK, so the basic SOB details are still there but they are very stylised and slimmed down; I hope that this is not the way they are going!

Vet.Sister
13-12-2014, 02:01
Not sure I like the look of the SOB graphic that is in White Dwarf this week along with Gabriel Seth. OK, it is not a model, but the look seems somewhat skinny and I don't know, plastic and un-gothic. OK, so the basic SOB details are still there but they are very stylised and slimmed down; I hope that this is not the way they are going!

Is there any kind of public pic? (I know it's asking a lot of GW...)

Hrw-Amen
15-12-2014, 19:17
It is on page 11 of issue 46 White Dwarf.

Spiney Norman
15-12-2014, 21:16
*snip*


I have to agree. Even if we only have the units we have now, they should be able to form a functional codex.


Of course, most 40k codices are so badly balanced internally that they frequently function with only 5-6 really playable units, if all the units Sisters had access to were worth fielding (instead of the current 3 decent ones we have) then we'd be in business. In fact I'd go as far as to say the only sections they really need to get right are troops and HQ because (not counting SC) we only have one entry in both of those sections and they carry a mandatory use. I was gutted when they ditched our confessor as a proper HQ choice, especially when they dropped Kyrinov at the same time, Jacobus is a pretty poor substitute because the model is just horrible.

A.T.
15-12-2014, 23:31
...if all the units Sisters had access to were worth fielding (instead of the current 3 decent ones we have) then we'd be in business.I'm guessing exorcists, dominions with meltaguns, and melta immolators for the dominions?

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 07:48
Personally id rather sisters become an allied army ie one you add to another army. While you could keep the option to run pure sisters atleast this way a few more people may get tempted to pick them up. Im not just saying this as a chaos player as id rather see Daemons go this way too

A.T.
16-12-2014, 10:44
Personally id rather sisters become an allied army ie one you add to another army.As I mentioned in your other post - that doesn't make sense in 7th edition. Any imperial army can take as many allied FoCs of sisters as they want, the only restriction being that you have to take the compulsory HQs and troops if you want to remain battle forged.

Haravikk
16-12-2014, 12:04
Personally id rather sisters become an allied army ie one you add to another army. While you could keep the option to run pure sisters atleast this way a few more people may get tempted to pick them up. Im not just saying this as a chaos player as id rather see Daemons go this way too
Why? They have enough units to make a competitive army, the problem is that GW seems to just assign people to their codex as homework so the balance is horrible. We've got the pieces, maybe not as many as other armies have, but ours also don't fit together right :)
Plus as A.T. says you can ally with Sisters all you want; turning them into an allies only detachment would kill them off completely, as they'd be unlikely to get any new models into the bargain which is the same problem they're already facing.

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 12:13
Why? They have enough units to make a competitive army, the problem is that GW seems to just assign people to their codex as homework so the balance is horrible. We've got the pieces, maybe not as many as other armies have, but ours also don't fit together right :)
Plus as A.T. says you can ally with Sisters all you want; turning them into an allies only detachment would kill them off completely, as they'd be unlikely to get any new models into the bargain which is the same problem they're already facing.

Its more id rather be able to take Nurgle daemons in my army than by allying in a small detachment

AndrewGPaul
16-12-2014, 14:39
There's no difference between "in my army" and "an allied detachment", if both allied factions are Battle Brothers.

Charistoph
16-12-2014, 14:59
There's no difference between "in my army" and "an allied detachment", if both allied factions are Battle Brothers.

More, especially if they are Battle Brothers.

Still, a lot of people prefer to only play against one or two Detachments, even for PUGs. Many tournaments are also limiting the number of Detachments you can bring, so that does put the concern in to proper light.

However, as been mentioned, some codices are just too big to reinsert back in to another codex right now.

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 15:45
While i understand sisters of battle players pain imo they need to maje rules for chaos assassins/knights before we even think about a new sisters codex :p its not like sisters donr have a army list that can be used

A.T.
16-12-2014, 16:29
While i understand sisters of battle players pain imo they need to maje rules for chaos assassins/knights before we even think about a new sisters codex :p its not like sisters donr have a army list that can be usedYou'll be up to your ears in chaos knights from forgeworld soon enough.

As for the chaos temple assassins, I hear they are coming out next year in a supplement with chaos guard, chaos loyalists, chaos grey knights, and chaos inquisition.
But seriously, if you want to cherry pick from other armies just play unbound.

WarsmithGarathor94
17-12-2014, 11:05
You'll be up to your ears in chaos knights from forgeworld soon enough.

As for the chaos temple assassins, I hear they are coming out next year in a supplement with chaos guard, chaos loyalists, chaos grey knights, and chaos inquisition.
But seriously, if you want to cherry pick from other armies just play unbound.
Excuse me both knights and assassins are known to be used by chaos. Id argue chaos actually needs more codexs than the imperium. Imo the only spezz marine chapter who deserves a seperate codex is space wolves. Meanwhile at the very least we need a book for the chaos legions who do still come together as legions unlike the loyalists and a book for renegades. Also loyalists need to stop nicking from chaos ie centurions

A.T.
17-12-2014, 11:21
Excuse me both knights and assassins are known to be used by chaos.Knights - as I said, you'll be up to your ears in them when forgeworld get around to them, probably a couple of books down the line when the war on mars ramps up. Perhaps even subjugators, though they are a quite different kind of unit.

Have you considered marauders from IA13 for chaos assassins? The more exotic and powerful assassins are counts-as territory as no two are alike, chaos don't use temple assassins.



Meanwhile at the very least we need a book for the chaos legions who do still come together as legions unlike the loyalists and a book for renegades.Chaos legions are like loyalist warbands. GW aren't doing them. Try forgeworld.

IA13 contains a full renegade list with more artillery than imperial guard for far fewer points. Frankly abusing it's pricing structure won't make you many friends - you remember the thread a while back questioning if wyverns were overpowered? IA13 goes way beyond that.

Commissar Davis
17-12-2014, 11:52
I think that perhaps FW should have a go at creating a viable stand alone SoB codex (IA) if GW are going to drag out a proper redo. Look at the HH line, it has plenty of takers and lots of options, which is why I would recommend going the FW path.

They would get the Avenger, that is a given, and be somewhat cheaper than they are currently in £££. I am sure that FW would do them justice, and it is not like FW has the tag that it use to have.

A.T.
17-12-2014, 13:14
I think that perhaps FW should have a go at creating a viable stand alone SoB codexUnfortunately they've always expressed a total lack of interest in the faction when asked. They've also discontinued two of their three sororitas models and the third (repressor) has been out of stock for months.

Spiney Norman
17-12-2014, 22:26
I think that perhaps FW should have a go at creating a viable stand alone SoB codex (IA) if GW are going to drag out a proper redo. Look at the HH line, it has plenty of takers and lots of options, which is why I would recommend going the FW path.

They would get the Avenger, that is a given, and be somewhat cheaper than they are currently in £££. I am sure that FW would do them justice, and it is not like FW has the tag that it use to have.

I'd prefer they didn't relegate sisters to FW only, most players locally are still pretty resistant to playing against forgeworld army lists, even if they are a little more tolerant of the odd FW unit bolted on to a standard codex list. That would just cause them to fade from the game even more than they have presently.

There isn't really any good reason why sisters shouldn't get a proper codex and accompanying model line, but I'd prefer it if they waited out the doldrums of blandness that has thus far afflicted every codex since the start of 7th. If my sisters get a new book, which they will undoubtedly be stuck with for the next decade, I really hope they make it a good one.