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spud
13-06-2005, 20:10
I've been wondering if it were possible to have an entirely mounted army, and if it would even be worth while. It doiesn't matter to me which army it would be as I love them all...I just have a soft spot for cavalry and wouldl ove to field an entirely mounted host that could be a contender on the table.

I figured the tactics forum would be the best place to ask this.

kyussinchains
13-06-2005, 20:48
any army which has cavalry core units could be entirely mounted, you can make a dark elf army entirely of cold one knights and dark riders, elves can use silverhelms, reaver knights and dragon princes, empire have loads of knights.. so in answer to your question....

YES!

Nukem
13-06-2005, 20:54
Of course you can. I saw he failed to mention the 2 biggest cav heavy army's. The Bretonians, and Chaos. Not just all knights you have maurders on horse back, Squires etc etc.

Again.... yes you can.

spud
13-06-2005, 21:52
Is it worthwhile though?

Neknoh
13-06-2005, 22:00
Well...

YES!

Bretonnian Knights are among the best in the game, they can have an entire army with only knights... they were designed for that.

Chaos, Chaos has Chaos Knights, Marauder Horsemen, Warhounds, Centigors and Mounted Daemonettes, not to mention five different mount-choices for Hero level fighters and six different for Lord level ones.

Nukem
13-06-2005, 22:16
Not to mention all the demon mounts Be'lakors army can have.. Mmmmm

Of course it is worthwhile. Chosen Chaos knights pack a huge punch. only Bretonnian knights beat them... while the grail knights do. I think chosen knights would butcher the weaker knights with ease. But yes it is worth it, well my Khorne army thinks it's worth it :evilgrin: Muhahaha :evilgrin:

Nukem

Lafeel Abriel
13-06-2005, 23:36
Sure, of course it is possible, but..It is a very much a one trick pony army, although a all cavarly army does work, it does have several distinct flaws: Small numbers, bit short on maneuverability (not because of lack of speed, mind you)..

To summarize: if you want to, go ahead, just don't expect it to be the "perfect army" that works every time, as there is no such thing, really.

spud
13-06-2005, 23:42
not looking for a perfect army. just a fun one that can win a few times at least.

the_night_reaper
13-06-2005, 23:46
there definately is:

an all mounted khorne army...mmm

chosen knights are in my oppinion the best knights in the game (I' havent seen the stat line for grail knights)

I don't like all mounted high elves knights because I don't like silver helms. They're just a delivery system for those horses :D

Crazy Harborc
13-06-2005, 23:59
IMHO, if your all mounted army choice can have shooters, foot or cav.....use them too. DoW have a fast cav that can have shields and bows. They can be used by most armies.

kyussinchains
14-06-2005, 09:02
the best knights in my opinion and experience, are chosen knights of slaanesh, carrying the rapturous standard... half weapon skill and initiative for all enemy models in base contact? it's so nice to hack down dozens of WS3 swordmasters, and most other troops will be hitting you on 5's, even grail knights wouldnt do very well against that.

I'm not sure about the profile of grail knights, are they similar to the profile in the last edition

edit: oh yeah, an all mounted, all khorne army is potentially awesome, but against a good general, you'll have your knights all charging off against useless things like pistoliers, exposing their flanks, and not holding position, having said that, chosen knights of khorne practically play themselves, just point at your opponent's toughest troops and watch the knights carve em to tiny bits.

Minotower
14-06-2005, 11:26
Nothing as strong as the 12 strong Bretonnien lance formation of knight errants. With standard and champ they come at at 254 points. How many chosen chaos knights do you have for this?

Crazy Harborc
14-06-2005, 19:32
Those Brets can go right on through a unit. Those flanks MUST be protected too. A overrun can often leave a knight unit's flanks fully exposed to the opponent's next turn/charge.

Nukem
14-06-2005, 19:46
254 would equal 5 Chosen knights with a Champion and Muscian. I'd take them over normal humans anyday :)

spud
14-06-2005, 20:22
Yeah, I think I'm leaning more towards chaos. How does nurgle fair in a nall mounted force? Is the extre deffence a bit redundant?

Nukem
14-06-2005, 20:29
Extra defense? Nurgle causes them to cause fear. I like nurgle. The only god I don't like is Tzeentch ><

Darmort
14-06-2005, 20:33
I don't like all Cavalry Armies... maybe it's just me, but I feel it's too unfair on the opponent, because;
1; he'll get no fun out of it
2; neither of us will learn anything
3; I'll get no fun out of it
4; I hate cavalry and use it as little as possible, Fast Cavalry being the only exception
5; we get no fun out of it


Did I mention that we get no fun out of it? :P

Seriously, I think Cavalry is a waste, a 1 Wound Model for upto 20 Points? I think not, despite a high Armour save!


"This Armour Was worn by the family of Vulkor into Battle Countless times. 2+ Armour Save; no wonder they died!" :D

There's a hint in there somewhere, ;)

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
14-06-2005, 20:36
Grail knights are awesome. Between their ws and I 5 ,str, and 2 attacks each they will own anyone. Even those preciouse chosen knights of yours. They all have magical attacks, and they start the game with the blessing of the lady, regardless of whether the army prayed or not. But al that goodness comes at a price...

Captain Brown
14-06-2005, 20:36
I used to have an all cavalry Kislev force of about 30+ Horse Archers 12 Winged Lancers. It was lots of fun, it won it's fair share of games. Usually fared better against slower armies with expensive troops. Horde armies were a problem because I could not destroy enough enemy units before the tide reached me and cut off my avenues for escape.

spud
14-06-2005, 20:37
Extra defense? Nurgle causes them to cause fear. I like nurgle. The only god I don't like is Tzeentch ><
Oh...I jst assumed the mark of nurgle gave them a +1 toughness or soemthing like that. Fear is nice though.

Nukem
14-06-2005, 20:43
In 40k its a extra T. But when you have a unit of 10 nurgle knights, it works very good :)

How is using a full cav army not fun? I love facing all cav army's. It makes you think of where to move your troops and how to counter their tactics. And a cav vs cav battle is fun even though most people will wait to get the charge off lol

Sariel
14-06-2005, 21:05
An all-cav army is perfectly viable.

Two of the better all-cav armies out there:

Brets
Arguably the premier all-cavalry army. All sorts of Knights. Point for point, nothing can beat the sheer number of attacks a Bret lance can throw out, though Chosen Chaos Knights come close. To use the example of Chosen Knights v. Knights Errant:

5 Chosen Knights with champion - 245 points
11 WS5 S5 and 5 WS 3 S4 attacks, no ranks, US 10

2 lances of 6 Knights Errant - 240 points
12 WS3 S5 and 10 WS3 S3 attacks, 1 rank, US 24

Other plus points:
1) All their Knights charge 16" - faster than any other heavy cavalry unit other than Silver Helms/Dragon Princes
2) Knights in lance formation get rank bonuses AND free champions

Minus points:
1) You have three excellent units - Questing Knights, Pegasus Knights and mounted Yeomen - competing for special slots, and the Yeomen are your only cheap (ie expendable) units.


Chaos
Chaos Knights are dead hard, but also pretty darn expensive. A little trickier to use, since you usually can't afford to buy enough of them to contribute additional ranks for static combat resolution.

Plus points:
1) Excellent core light cavalry in the form of Marauder Horsemen, and cheap ranked cavalry/missile shields in the form of Warhounds.
2) Core (and special) chariots, while not exactly cavalry, can add some much-needed punch.
3) Centigors and Dragon Ogres are also pretty tough and hit pretty darn hard if you need additional flankers and/or punch.

Minus points:
1) Cost - given the cost of Chaos Knights, its going to be a lot harder to flood the field with Chaos cavalry - you're a lot more vulnerable to shooting/magic.


The Empire, Dark Elves and High Elves can also field pretty solid all-cav armies, and the Dogs of War can field a perfectly competitive all-cavalry list. Orcs and Goblins also have a shot at it, though their lower leadership can make it really difficult for them to handle some armies.

Like other posters have mentioned, any army with core cavalry can do it fairly easily.

Also, on a side note, not all cavalry armies have to focus on close combat. Dark Elves, High Elves and Gobbos can also go heavy on magic. Their mages run circles around you, blasting away, while small units of cavalry avoid your big nasty units while ganging up on your smaller, softer support units.

Verergoca
14-06-2005, 21:28
Lets not forget the wolf/boar hordes of the O&G :D

spud
14-06-2005, 21:32
There's a thought...what about an all gobbo cav army? their wolf riders have the option of using spears, 1hweapons, shields and bows right? Weedy on the leadership, but I would assume i'd make up for that in numbers and mounted mages.

Verergoca
14-06-2005, 21:36
I'd say, unleash the Horde!!!

You could give it a mongol theme or something...

spud
14-06-2005, 21:43
You could give it a mongol theme or something...YES! Mongols and Cossacks = <3

Nukem
14-06-2005, 21:43
Whoa, that would be cool, but one panic test and they all could go.. AHHHHHH OMFG RUN!!!!

spud
14-06-2005, 21:44
But it would be so awesome. And nearly every model would be plastic, so the price point is fantastic.

Nukem
14-06-2005, 21:53
Yeah, but would they be effective is the thing you should look at. I'd let you charge from every direction into my chaos knights and they would 80% of the the time win.

spud
14-06-2005, 22:04
What if I armed them all with bows? Fast cav with ranged weapons. I don;t want to charge you, just pummel you with arrows. You'd have so few knights that even if you charge a unit of wolf riders I'd have others to get you in them bum.


I think...

Lord_Meretrix
14-06-2005, 22:30
I was supprised no one said anythign about the greenskins earlier. Their mounted army rocks. You can take some big orc charictors on boars and you can take savage orc boars with banners of buchery for 3 attacks each, make one big'un and they are st 5 on the charge for only 22pts. Plus the wolf riders which are fast and cost nothing, plus wolf and boar chariots. You can have a rather large selection of cool stuff for relativly cheep.

Lord Meretrix

Sariel
14-06-2005, 22:54
I was supprised no one said anythign about the greenskins earlier. Their mounted army rocks. You can take some big orc charictors on boars and you can take savage orc boars with banners of buchery for 3 attacks each, make one big'un and they are st 5 on the charge for only 22pts. Plus the wolf riders which are fast and cost nothing, plus wolf and boar chariots. You can have a rather large selection of cool stuff for relativly cheep.

Lord Meretrix

Oh. The Green Hordes can be rather nasty. Cheap wolf chariots, tough Orc chariots, core fast (and I mean FAST!) cav....

Trouble is..

1) You have Boar Boyz, Orc chariots and gobbo wolf chariots competing for special slots. (Less of a problem if you're using Grimgor's 'ardboyz, but then you loose all those cheap wolves.....)

2) Boar boyz are pretty tough and all, but a 3+ save just isn't going to cut it against all that shooting out there. One of the benefits of heavy cavalry is their 1+/2+ armour save. Boar boyz don't have that - Savage Orc boar boyz might be immune to panic, but none of the other units are. One good magic missile hit, and they're gonna be running.

3) Leadership is pretty darn awful, and considering the number of fear and terror-causing units out there, not something you'd want to count on. Not to mention panic tests......

4) Animosity. Cavalry armies need a fair bit of coordination - even Brets can't always charge straight down the middle. And with O&G armies, there's always a chance that you might fail that animosity roll just when its gonna hurt the most. Kinda like stupidity.....


Granted, you could go down the Waaaghpath and max on out magic, relying on spells to win the battle for you, with in that case, it sort of becomes a very mobile magic-heavy army rather than a cavalry list.

spud
15-06-2005, 18:18
So would an all gobbo wolf rider army even be able to kill much of anything?

TheDrugLordX
15-06-2005, 18:42
So would an all gobbo wolf rider army even be able to kill much of anything?

Don't count on the gobbos to kill anything. But if you have enough of Big bosses and Chariots they can dish out lots of pain ;)

I'm surprised noone has mentioned the Tomb King all cavalry/chariot army.

Perhaps not the best cavalry fighters in the game, but a Heavy Horsemen comes at only 16 pts, having an OK armour save and most importanlty they cause fear. With thei'r US of 2 a unit of 16 (with a warbanner perhaps) makes this a fearsome unit indeed.

Mounted priests are perhaps not that good, but give 'em an bodyguard of Light cav, 14pts/model fast cav with bow is IMO very cheap, though unfortunately they can't march... even though, they're very often underistimated and thus perfect flanking troops.

Though, If you don't like mounted priests you can give your hierophant the cloak of dunes (flying is his best protection) and then fill up the rest character slots with kings/princes in chariots.

And of course we must not forget the most powerfull thing in this army. The chariots that come in units and which are core choices (if playing with a king of course). with a US of 3/chariot and fear they cause havoc in most enemy troops. With a hard hitting king/prince in there they'll be more than able to deal with any thougher troops.

Another great thing is that there are plenty of other high M units in the list. like Bone Giants, carrions and the all so mighty Scorpion, all warmachines nightamres... Even swarms can come in handy. Ushabtis may be a nice choice as well, like a support troop arriving a bit later in the game (4 of these make HUGE amounts of damage).

And if we lose some troops, we can always resurect :evilgrin:

Sariel
16-06-2005, 02:29
@ spud - no, not really. Greenskin magic, on the other hand, can kill lots and lots of stuff. One good Warpath can easily take out almost half your opponent's army.




Perhaps not the best cavalry fighters in the game, but a Heavy Horsemen comes at only 16 pts, having an OK armour save and most importanlty they cause fear. With thei'r US of 2 a unit of 16 (with a warbanner perhaps) makes this a fearsome unit indeed.


Well, fearsome is a good word, and yes, the main reason to take 'em would be to get what amounts to a slightly faster unit of skeletons. Trouble is, they're still skeletons, complete with the total inability to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.. :(



Mounted priests are perhaps not that good, but give 'em an bodyguard of Light cav, 14pts/model fast cav with bow is IMO very cheap, though unfortunately they can't march... even though, they're very often underistimated and thus perfect flanking troops.


Agreed. Great fan of fast cavalry myself...



And of course we must not forget the most powerfull thing in this army. The chariots that come in units and which are core choices (if playing with a king of course). with a US of 3/chariot and fear they cause havoc in most enemy troops. With a hard hitting king/prince in there they'll be more than able to deal with any thougher troops.


And also the weakest things in the list. Three words - "Strength 7 hits"
Sure, you have carrion/scorpions/swarms to deal with cannon, but depending on who goes first, that's at least 1-2 turns of shooting before you take them out.

And if they don't have cannon, well, you still have S7 characters to worry about. Wolf Form Thralls with great weapons, Mortal Chaos, Kroxigors, Saurus characters..

Two Wolf Form Thralls charged a unit of 6 chariots (including one carrying the Tomb King) in the flank, neatly avoiding any challenges. 5 hits, 5 chariots destroyed. Instant +15 to combat resolution, Tomb King crumbles. Just under 200 points worth of characters destroyed a unit worth almost 700 points (including upgrades, the Icon of the Sacred Eye and random kit on the Tomb King (never did find out what he was carrying...))

Needless to say, the Thralls just ignored the Curse...

Chariots are excellent support troops, and I'll always bring along 1 or 2 squadrons of 3 with no command, but no more.

That being said, an FAST Tomb King army would work (and can work very well depending on your opponent), but i would'nt really be all-cav once you start dragging in Scorpions, Giants and Ushabti, would it now? :D

TheDrugLordX
16-06-2005, 14:17
Two Wolf Form Thralls charged a unit of 6 chariots (including one carrying the Tomb King) in the flank, neatly avoiding any challenges. 5 hits, 5 chariots destroyed. Instant +15 to combat resolution, Tomb King crumbles. Just under 200 points worth of characters destroyed a unit worth almost 700 points (including upgrades, the Icon of the Sacred Eye and random kit on the Tomb King (never did find out what he was carrying...))

A cunning player would be very careful with where he deploys his unit (though, Vanhels dance macabre could be a real pain!). And with an all-cavalry army has high enough mobility to pick its battles, most of the time atleast.



Needless to say, the Thralls just ignored the Curse...\

huh? :wtf: With a LD of 7 they should have taken some wounds, but hey. He was probably lucky :rolleyes:



That being said, an FAST Tomb King army would work (and can work very well depending on your opponent), but i would'nt really be all-cav once you start dragging in Scorpions, Giants and Ushabti, would it now? :D

Well, that depends on your taste and how you see an "all cavalry army" as an "all cavalry army". I myself now concern to build a all-cav TK army (I havn't seen any...), nstead of a common HE army, themed around some "snake" god. Replacing all horses with snakes and having mounted Giant Snakes as scorpions :D Or the like, havn't decided anything yet. Dunno what to do about the Bone Giant/Ushabti/Carrion If I would like some though...

I don't know if the army would work any good, though it would be very cool. And as coolness is what I'm aming for this army would be fun to collect indeed.

Cheers for inspiring me with this idea!

Sariel
16-06-2005, 15:17
A cunning player would be very careful with where he deploys his unit (though, Vanhels dance macabre could be a real pain!). And with an all-cavalry army has high enough mobility to pick its battles, most of the time atleast.


In the case of the Wolf Form Thralls, its rather difficult to avoid a character that has a 360-degree charge arc, charges 18" and ignores terrain penalties. Same thing with Nike Lizards and other fast S7 characters...

Granted, there are only a handful of armies that can do that, but its still something you'll want to watch out for.




Well, that depends on your taste and how you see an "all cavalry army" as an "all cavalry army". I myself now concern to build a all-cav TK army (I havn't seen any...), nstead of a common HE army....................
I don't know if the army would work any good, though it would be very cool. And as coolness is what I'm aming for this army would be fun to collect indeed.


It would be very cool. I've been thinking of redoing a Tomb King army along a vaguely Arab theme myself.

One thing you'll want to remember, though - a great deal of a Tomb King army's mobility is dependent on its magic phase, ie getting the Incantation of Urgency off. If you don't have enough Liche Priests and/or Tomb Princes/Kings, they are'nt in the right place, or your opponent has enough magical defence, you're still moving up to a maximum of 8" a turn.

TheDrugLordX
16-06-2005, 17:00
Concerning Tomb King armies need of hard hitters (as you stated, they are skellies after all, and thus will hardly do any damage themselves) and magic casters how you pick your characters will have a huge effect on the outcome of a game. Especially when playing all mounted TK.

The Kings/Princes are needed to be hard hitters. They are, after all, undead and thus very powerful characters. Taking a King instead of a High Liche priest is ovious. But how to fill up the rest character slots is a bigger question... Princes hit hard if equiped with a Great Weapon, and can be adapted to different rols on the battlefield if equiped right (ie, Blade of Setep vs Cavalry. Chariot of Fire vs Light Infantry. etc...). Putting them on chariots do increase their uses very much... But without the magic, will they ever get into combat where they are needed the most?

Though, with lots of Princes, you get a very low casting Power. This means that you'll hardly get of those important charges, have a very limited movement and won't be able to resurect those expensive troops. If you do take Liches instead of Princes, you'll manage to outmanouver your enemy for sure, though, will the lack of hitting power be enough to break them?

I have considered of using an Icon Bearer with Banner of the Hidden Dead, hiding a unit of Light Cav. They'll be able to summon behind enemy lines threatening with rear charges, and if deployed with wisdom perhaps kill lurking wizards with their bows (I've used this tactic several times and it's stunningly effectiv!). Though, taking an Icon Bearer means that you lose the fighting Power of a Tomb Prince and the Magic power of a Liche Priest. Is it worth it?

I'm not sure if a balance of these characters to best, or if you should stick with fighting power or magic. I guess I have to try some games before making up a list. This army is going to be very hard to play. I just hope that my tactics are good enough to face such a challange :)

Ribbo
16-06-2005, 17:26
any army which has cavalry core units could be entirely mounted, you can make a dark elf army entirely of cold one knights and dark riders, elves can use silverhelms, reaver knights and dragon princes, empire have loads of knights.. so in answer to your question....

YES!
You missed out the best of all, you missed out the gobblins...woo
i'm thinking of a wolf rider themed army .... possably, well i kind of want a night gobblin mounted army...but can't really. can i?

Lafeel Abriel
16-06-2005, 18:38
You could, but it'd have to be using the same rules, as we seem to have lost the rules for the Night Goblin Spider riders in this ed.

That having been said a all mounted gobbo army would be a interesting army to see, and indeed play, or play against. Just watch out for those animosity rolls, they could really ruin your day.

Artemis_Quinn
17-06-2005, 05:44
Well, I have two flaws to point out:

With the goblin wolf rider army:

Against elves you're in for a lot of tough battles, mainly because they fear elves..... ALL Elves! Darn them for stinking funny or i'd have a wolf rider army of my own. (not to mention the animosity stacking on to that...... sounds like too much of a headache to play)

With the Tomb Kings idea:

I'm not so worried about beefed up characters with them, it's just that since they are undead, they CAN'T march!!! This is their main flaw with the entire cavalry army. they lose the main bonus, the mobility. Though I do have to say that they get a little bit of that back with their magic, which can almost completely alleviate this problem.



As for other armies......

Dark Elves......

I really would love to see an all cavalry Dark Elf army...... it can have descent shooting, good flanking units, hard hitting cold one knights, good artillary with the repeater bolt throwers (ok not mounted but add wheeels or something and it's close enough :p ), not to mention the magic and an opportunity to have two characters flying mean winged beasties in 2k.

High Elves........

They have good options and good army selection, not to mention all of the benefits of the Dark elves (without the repeater crossbows) but I'd much rather have my knoghts on velociraptors :evilgrin: (that's what cold ones always reminded me of)

Chaos.........

Well, they have cavalry out the wazoo. But I think their's whereas it has a lot more diverity and options I don't think the army overall competes with the coolness of the dark elf list, partially because the chaos one seems to have all of their swords set from stun, to kill..... whereas the elves can decide that fighting just isn't in the cards and blast you to death. And have I mentioned velociraptors before in this post?

Breonnians.......

I have to say I like them.... alot. The chivalry, the banners, the special unit pegasai....... you really can't argue with that. Plus, when you're fast cavalry is a bunch of guys who deeply envy your core troops, that's just funny.

Empire.......

A very solid list.... I have to say a white wolf knight is indeed a very good man to be friends with. And it's really kind of mean to think that clanrats can bust through the armor of a regular knightly order's 1+ armor save. Not to mention that pistoliers are just cool.

Vampire counts (if you want to count dire wolves as cavalry)......

Good magic, good knights (well, good doesn't quite say it well enough, how about completely evil against anything man sized?), the wolves can be a little iffy considering that they are undead (making them less mobile, but making them cause fear and be immune to psychology) they're a good buy (especially with Macabre working for you).

But overall that's just what I think, my opinions rarely mean much of anything.

ChaplainDamiel
17-06-2005, 06:29
Empirecan field a more than competent, with the best armour saves for their knights, tied with chaos in fact! There is also an option for 2 St 4 knight units in core, and a 3rd in the dogs of war list, which comes with a character. Their fast cav is also arguably the best in the game, with two pistols each, they certainly pack a punch. Pegasus Captains are available at a cheap enough price, and they can be used to great effect. What makes this a dreaded tournament list is the addition of a steam tank, which can lay on the pain really well. The characters aren't monsters in combat, but they are affordable and have acess to good magic armour/ward saves, and there are also banners which are greatly beneficial. I don't know about the best all mounted cav army, but with the steam tank, they are definetly in contention.

Artemis_Quinn
17-06-2005, 06:41
I forgot, another Army possible for being all mounted is dogs of war, but they're a little generic for my tastes, they're no fun without pikes :p