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Scribe of Khorne
27-11-2014, 18:53
I know CSM and DA got the short end of the stick upon release, as they where followed by power houses. Is there something fundamentally wrong with the DA book however?

3eland
27-11-2014, 18:56
The only thing DA player in our group complains about is the flyer.

We are doing a campaign atm and he is currently in lead for points (followed by Space Wolves in second). He also says games over 1850 are tough since he doesn't have the same variety as the Vanilla Marine Codex.

MajorWesJanson
27-11-2014, 19:00
The flier is underpowered for it's points compared to the Storm Talon.
Land Speeder vengeance is also underpowered/overpriced.

Greyhound
27-11-2014, 20:14
Ok some some units are poor, I think every codex can pull their ugly ducklings. But is it genuinely broken overall? My DA opponent always win but whine to no end how subpar his codex is overall (some stats he found on the net)

dangerboyjim
27-11-2014, 20:38
I got beaten by 2000pts of DA at the weekend (against my Orks)

It's a tough army that holds it's own, but flyers and the new landspeeder variations are a bit underwhelming. Especially the plasma cannon one that will probably destroy itself over the course of a game.

Freman Bloodglaive
27-11-2014, 20:47
The basic list is sound. The biggest issue, if you want to call it that, is that its equivalent of Chapter Tactics can't be tailored for your army the way Codex Marines can be. Being stubborn is fluffy, but it doesn't really offer anything of benefit to Space Marines with ATSKNF. Their specialist units, Ravenwing and Deathwing, are more expensive than their equivalents in Codex Marines also. They don't really have innate anti-air.

That said, they are a decent list, and they can be played effectively in a fluffy manner at least to a mid-tier level. That makes them much better than Chaos Space Marines in my opinion.

Scribe of Khorne
27-11-2014, 21:17
Thanks for the feedback folks. I put them above CSM mechanically after looking it over, while accepting a few under performing units.

With 7th's clown car approach to the FoC, is nothing some detachments cant fix. :]

Sephillion
27-11-2014, 21:32
The Flyers, as said, compare badly to other flyers. They are either the worst or very close. The Land Speeder Vendetta is a stupidly bad model – fragile, poor weapon, costly. It doesn’t bring anything unique, except it’s a more mobile but weaker, more costly and much more fragile Vindicator.

Aside from this, Stubborn is a boring rule, but it’s immensely better (with ATSKNF and Combat Squad) than Champion of Chaos, so there is that.

The Green Wing is a bit bland. I know the bikes and termies are the heart of the army, but the rest is just terribly bland.

The characters could be cheaper, and White Scars are generally thought to be slightly superior to Ravenwings, although opinions differ on that point. I have no actual experience with White Scars.

Termies are overpriced, but that’s the case for most armies right now I think.

But really, some of these are nit-picking, or at least they don’t break the deal for me. Deathwing have a cool deep strike assault, Deathwing Knights are a good melee unit, if expensive; the Dakka Banner is great, the PFG is good (even in its current incarnation), the Black Knights are amazing, the Darkshroud is cool support piece.

Asura Varuna
27-11-2014, 21:39
Everything that differentiates Dark Angels from loyalists is something that's worse:

Fliers are weaker
They don't have grav guns
Their Chapter Tactic is actually detrimental, they'd be better without one at all
Bikers are overpriced
Terminators are more expensive
Arguably bad characters are required for FOC adjustments (compared to vanilla where you can take a bike chapter master)

They're better than chaos, but they're worse than loyalists in every way.

T10
27-11-2014, 21:43
The Space Marine codex and the Dark Angels codex is somewhat at odds with each other, a major issue is that the Space Marine codex has a lot more options that are essentially "basic" tools for any chapter, options that are missing from the Dark Angels codex, seemingly for no good reason. The "Green Wing" standard marines are after all a codex-adherent lot.

What one would perhaps have expected was for the Dark Angels to have their special toys in addition to the common codex stuff, perhaps replacing or extending the Terminators, Bikes and Landspeeders to fit the theme of the Deathwing and Ravenwing.

However, what would be the selling point of a Space Marine codex with no unique characteristics of its own? If was just the Dark Angels codex with stuff removed? It's effectively a question of either making both codexes have their distinct flair, or have them make sense.

I guess the main fault of the Dark Angels codex is that it invites the player to embrace the unique character of the Deathwing and/or Ravenwing, but it undermines itself by offering a normal chapter structure, one that lacks lustre when held up to the presumably less divergent main Space Marine codex.

Anyhoo. The main thing missing from the Dark Angels is the Fliers, Centurions and AA tanks. The Fliers are at least available as a Stormwing formation, if you really want that combination...

Spiney Norman
27-11-2014, 21:43
Personally I think Dark angels have a solid book, they have a few one-trick ponies if that's your thing (banner of devastation bolter spam), black Knights are really powerful and the death/raven wings ooze characters. The 'Greenwing' elements do draw a bit of bad press, mainly due to them being bog standard troops (let's face it, no-one really loves tactical marines whichever marine codex/chapter you are playing) and mainly because they almost never have any significant role in any DA fluff piece because it's the bikes and termy dudes that get to do all wthe important stuff.

I think the thing I would really like them to sort out is company veteran squads, they need to go from being slightly better tactical marines to DA's version of stern guard, at the moment they are just crap.

SirBlackmane
27-11-2014, 23:17
The Land Speeder Vendetta is a stupidly bad model – fragile, poor weapon, costly. It doesn’t bring anything unique, except it’s a more mobile but weaker, more costly and much more fragile Vindicator.
You can deep strike it without worrying about mishap. It makes for a nasty surprise when it appears in your backfield and unloads.


Everything that differentiates Dark Angels from loyalists is something that's worse:

Spoken like someone who has yet to get their bell rung by one of the one trick ponies Spiney mentioned.

One of the three local DA players routinely comes out on top in local tournaments. Unlike the others he runs Dakka Ravenwing, and all the grumbling is generally by others about what a tough list it is to beat.
He uses the "sub-par" Ravenwing bikers, the "overpriced" land speeders (including the vengeance) and command squad. When he wants to get really cheesy he throws in a knight or an assassin.

One other thing that the Ravenwing have that Vanilla marines lack is a better ability to combat squad. In Maelstrom missions it's just brutal that he can make four objective secured turbo boosting units out of a single troop choice.

Scribe of Khorne
28-11-2014, 00:24
I've played against a few Ravenwing lists, do you have a general breakdown of the army he runs?

Voss
28-11-2014, 01:02
The feeling I always come away from the DA book is if the army list doesn't include Belial, Azzy, or maybe Sammy, then I would be doing it wrong. Why the FOC shifting is dependent on the SCs is beyond me.

Not Applicable
28-11-2014, 01:50
I just made up a librarian on a bike, cant wait to send him turbo boosting in solo with a shroud of heros (jink 2+ and feel no pain). That little fellas going call in my deathwing terminators round 2.

+ scout deploy with ravenwing attack squad bikes.

Can the smurfs do that?

SirBlackmane
28-11-2014, 06:48
I've played against a few Ravenwing lists, do you have a general breakdown of the army he runs?
Sure. The core is Sammy, 5 man command squad with champion, apothecary, and Dakka banner bearer, and an attached librarian. Then at least 2 (usually 3) squads of six bikers and an attack bike that all combat squad separately. Stocked up on special weapons (mostly melta guns but there's usually 1-2 flamers). Then various support elements going from the Darkshroud (he ran that all the time in 6th, but with the change to jink it's mostly retired now) to the Vengeance (which is a hidden gem Deep Striking against non-interceptor opponents), to extra Land Speeders (they count as combat squadded troops - very annoying objective grabbers) to even the Nephilim jet (which, by the way, if he gets it within 6" of the banner gets the bonus to its hurricane bolters - doesn't usually happen but if he can pull it off it's really annoying).

He's also included the Storm Wing formation, or a Knight, or a Vindicare Assassin.

Main tactic is basically scout up, then move 12" more, and he's right in your face with a giant bolter spam blob on turn 1, with 10 plasma shots going into your biggest, nastiest unit, multi meltas into your vehicles, and bolt shots everywhere else. Then turn 2 it dissolves and grabs everything it can. His command squad rarely makes it through a battle, but usually takes more than its fair share with it. It's not foolproof, but jinking gives him protection from AP3 or less weapons, and extra Bolter shots+ twin linking offset the usual penalties of jinking.

Ironically, Bolter fire has killed more of my special units than plasma or melta. I was running Grey Knights against him once and my Dreadknight shrugged off half a dozen plasma and melta shots with only one wound (made those saves like a champ!) Then died to forty or so Bolter shots.

Freman Bloodglaive
28-11-2014, 06:56
I'd run two squads of three bikes in preference to combat squadding a six man squad.

Other than that it is a pretty standard Ravenwing list. Perhaps a second command squad wouldn't go amiss.

Ironbone
28-11-2014, 10:12
I would say there is nothing fundamentaly wrong with DA. Sure, flyers and plasma speeder are bad, and rad shell is argueably only "true op" (but freaking anoying one :shifty:), but on army level, they are preety ok.

A.T.
28-11-2014, 10:23
Anyhoo. The main thing missing from the Dark Angels is the Fliers, Centurions and AA tanks. The Fliers are at least available as a Stormwing formation, if you really want that combination...It's a shame that the mortis has never made it across from forgeworld. It's a solidly dark angels unit that would have brought distinctive AA to the book.

Freman Bloodglaive
28-11-2014, 10:24
Well it does have to be said, dropping a multi-wound toughness 4 unit down to toughness 3 and then rapid-firing strength 7 plasma guns into them can be... satisfying.

Zmyeevich
28-11-2014, 13:06
Well it does have to be said, dropping a multi-wound toughness 4 unit down to toughness 3 and then rapid-firing strength 7 plasma guns into them can be... satisfying.


How would you do this with Dark Angels? given that Dark Angels do not have acces to Biomancy and enfeeble

MagicHat
28-11-2014, 13:13
How would you do this with Dark Angels? given that Dark Angels do not have acces to Biomancy and enfeeble

Black Knights/RW command squad with rad-grenade launchers and twin-linked plasma guns.

Ironbone
28-11-2014, 14:04
Yeah, exactly that. Have "fun" groing down from (already terrible) T3 to T2, and get instakilled with bolters :shifty:.

Not Applicable
28-11-2014, 14:15
If you rad grenade T5 mulit wound opponents with your black knights can krak missile armed devastators or land speeder typhoons insta kill them once you finish rolling the knights?

Brotheroracle
28-11-2014, 14:33
(In reference to LS Vengance)


You can deep strike it without worrying about mishap. It makes for a nasty surprise when it appears in your backfield and unloads.




How is he doing this? It doesn't teleport, so the teleport homer would not work for a DS'ing LSVengenace. IF that worked then it would possibly be a unit worth taking.

SirBlackmane
28-11-2014, 14:43
(In reference to LS Vengance)



How is he doing this? It doesn't teleport, so the teleport homer would not work for a DS'ing LSVengenace. IF that worked then it would possibly be a unit worth taking.
It scatters, but if it lands on terrain it just floats above it. If it lands on a unit it moves the minimum distance to be one inch away (due to skimmer movement rules).

SirBlackmane
28-11-2014, 14:44
If you rad grenade T5 mulit wound opponents with your black knights can krak missile armed devastators or land speeder typhoons insta kill them once you finish rolling the knights?
Yes. It's one of the suggestions on how to deal with Thunderwolf cavalry.

Ironbone
28-11-2014, 14:57
If you rad grenade T5 mulit wound opponents with your black knights can krak missile armed devastators or land speeder typhoons insta kill them once you finish rolling the knights?
Yes, this is actually one of more popular tactics. Rad shell require *just hiting* (and it's a blast, so usually you can hit at least something) to lower T, and it's effect is instant, so own squad plasma talons benefit too. Oh, and you can easyly have multiple of them in one army. They do not stack, but player can irradiate multiple units.

Slowpoke
28-11-2014, 15:08
My mega-armoured warboss and his meganob posse have been in the receiving end of this tactic. It was disgusting.

Not Applicable
28-11-2014, 15:23
^^^ LoL :)

Good to know, that's just one more reason to leave terminators out. I'm going to get 250pts worth of devastators and give them ML.

Scribe of Khorne
28-11-2014, 15:28
Well, I'm convinced. Good discussion folks. :]

Slowpoke
28-11-2014, 15:34
^^^ LoL :)

Good to know, that's just one more reason to leave terminators out. I'm going to get 250pts worth of devastators and give them ML.

Missiles combined with rad are good if you face multi-wound heavy infantry with T5 3+ save. The rad grenade & plasma talon combo is just wicked nasty against multi-wound T4 heavy infantry. I don't think it's necessarily OP since I can deal with ravenwing(I face them regularly) but it does make me a bit shaky in my boots.

minionboy
28-11-2014, 18:06
It scatters, but if it lands on terrain it just floats above it. If it lands on a unit it moves the minimum distance to be one inch away (due to skimmer movement rules).

Yeah good luck with that.

Freman Bloodglaive
28-11-2014, 21:46
Yes, Space Marines may have gotten the "Lion's share" of the goodies, but Dark Angels do have a few little tricks of their own.

Sephillion
28-11-2014, 23:51
IMO, none of the Vanilla models come close to the coolness that are the DW Knights. So there is that. Black Knights are also just amazing.

murgel2006
30-11-2014, 15:02
IMO even though there is nothing fundamentally wrong, I think there should be some corrections.
Some of the SM toys should be made available, like grav guns also the aircraft and the big speeders should be FAQed a bit.
I agree that the main need is for the standard tacticals and the Veterans to be boosted.
An easy way would be a more reliable plasma tech for the DA, maybe a special 50% chance re-roll to the "gets hot".
The veterans should be give the sternguard options in addition to what they have now.

Latro_
01-12-2014, 22:36
When i was using it before the new marine book hit for my marine army the deathwing terminators first turn teleport and split fire were always huge for me, as was a cheeky TH/SS at the front to tank nasty shots.

mughi3
04-12-2014, 01:00
I have not been really happy with my DA since the 3.5 mini dex.

That was when I built pure fluff RW and DW armies with all the restrictions and still took the fight to the enemy.

After rocking salamanders for the last few editions I have just recently revived my hybrid bound DA force at 1,500 points.

I have yet to see how it performs, but I have managed to shore up it's weak spots with a few FW units in my collection.

Padman
04-12-2014, 02:02
I may be the only one, but I really love my Nephilim fighter. Against flyers it's not great, but against infantry ( especially anything without a 3+ save ) it's great. Don't bother with the lascannon, just give it the Avenger Mega Bolter and go kill!

SamaNagol
04-12-2014, 02:41
Marines in Power Armour on foot are poor and have been for 3 editions unless you were a Grey Knight. That's still the case.

Ravenwing were invalidated by the Heldrake FAQ, but are now again a powerful group of units. Ravenwing Banner is brilliant.

Deathwing terminators can't Alpha Strike hard enough to be a legitimate threat given their utter lack of mobility after coming in.

The flyers are utterly terrible.

Bolter Banner is meh and Power Field Generator nerfs.

Anything that relies on a cover save in this edition will have great fun playing against Eldar... not. That's another Unique DA unit that's looking lacklustre on the tabletop.

Other than that they are cool. You can build a good force round Ravenwing plus allies, be it (ironically) Wolf or White Scar.

theJ
05-12-2014, 14:17
Well, a big part of it is general disappointment.
Prior to the 6th ed. 'dex, their main issue was outdated rules and lack of options.
In theory, the codex fixed both of these issues.
In practice, however... the new units were, for the most part, quite terrible, and the rules got re-outdated once the 7th ed. "vanilla" space marine codex was released.
...
At which point Dark Angels also had their reputation as THE premier biker army challenged by the White Scars.
Did the challenge succeed? I dunno... but it was enough for a lot of people to shelf their armies. Not because the list doesn't work, but because it's already back in essentially the same spot as it was previous to its latest iteration; It's outdated(compared to vanilla marines), and it lacks options(unless you count the terribad ones). It's got a few cool rules going for it(such as the fancy banners), but it's not enough to make it an exciting army.

Ironbone
06-12-2014, 04:56
Did the challenge succeed? I dunno
It's kinada "apples/oranges" type of problem. I would say DA bikes still have a edge. Scout, teleport homers, black knights, plasmatalons IMHO outweight extra cost. Vanila SM on other hand have way more usefull support units (centurions, combat characters, flyers), and powerful builds outside bike spam******* .

AngryAngel
06-12-2014, 06:09
It really boils down to what made DA special, they keep giving to everyone else. Ample use of Terminators ? Done with SW, GK and now perhaps even BA with them getting a new terminator kit. It is ok, they are the best bikers, but we have vanilla bikers using white scars, oh. Aside from that they didn't really get anything new that is worth while.

Black Knights are very cool. I'd go so far as to say they were the best new addition from the book. However when a book has but one real winner unit, that tends to make it a poor book. I can easily say the only people who are playing DA now, are the same who played them even with their last awful book. If people bought in when they came out, they either flipped the army or they are on the shelf or in a case forgotten for now.

DA needed more model support and interesting rules, what they got was the Dev Banner and PFG. The PFG being forever nerfed, leaving just the banner as the shinning light with some black knights.

This book is worlds better then the last one, but that isn't super hard. However I think like most old school DA players, I wanted some more. I have hope for such later but I am sure it won't get any better however. GW have shown over decades they don't give a crap about DA the only favor they have done them is not rolling them into the vanilla book, at this point however, even I am wondering how that is really any favor at all.

Spiney Norman
06-12-2014, 10:27
It really boils down to what made DA special, they keep giving to everyone else. Ample use of Terminators ? Done with SW, GK and now perhaps even BA with them getting a new terminator kit. It is ok, they are the best bikers, but we have vanilla bikers using white scars, oh. Aside from that they didn't really get anything new that is worth while.

Black Knights are very cool. I'd go so far as to say they were the best new addition from the book. However when a book has but one real winner unit, that tends to make it a poor book. I can easily say the only people who are playing DA now, are the same who played them even with their last awful book. If people bought in when they came out, they either flipped the army or they are on the shelf or in a case forgotten for now.

DA needed more model support and interesting rules, what they got was the Dev Banner and PFG. The PFG being forever nerfed, leaving just the banner as the shinning light with some black knights.

This book is worlds better then the last one, but that isn't super hard. However I think like most old school DA players, I wanted some more. I have hope for such later but I am sure it won't get any better however. GW have shown over decades they don't give a crap about DA the only favor they have done them is not rolling them into the vanilla book, at this point however, even I am wondering how that is really any favor at all.

I think DA's problem has always been that they are usually a very late adaption of the previous space marine codex rather than a slightly early adaption of the next SM codex.

When a DA codex comes out it looks pretty good (although the planes didn't), but as soon as the next space marine codex drops, usually not that much later, you get a plethora of shiny new things like grav guns, centurions etc that DA can't hope to access for the next 4-5 years while they wait for their next book. It might just be that they usually release at the wrong point in the release order because the last couple of books have come just before the generic SM codex, rather than just after it (in the case of blood Angels and space wolves) who tend to fair rather better.

This time around it didn't help that instead of giving DA access to the storm talon like almost every other chapter, they tried to make a unique DA version of it and hopeless screwed the pooch when designing it's profile. I'm still not sure why they didn't give DA access to the storm raven.

Zustiur
06-12-2014, 10:44
It would also help if certain SM units weren't flat out better than DA units.
Scouts are my pet peeve.
DA scouts don't get Grim Resolve. Which makes a lot of sense fluffwise.
SM scouts cost one point less than DA and do get chapter tactics.

So whichever way you look at it, SM scouts are cheaper AND more effective. No fair.

I expected the PFG to get nerfed by the FAQ again so I never tried to use it in a vehicle, but still, while it might make sense that the 'bubble' of the PFG cannot expand through the armour of a tank, rules-wise it's an unfair restriction when you compare it to similar items elsewhere in the game.

So much improvement could be done with a FAQ style update to their rules, but that's not the way GW works. Instead we have to wait for another codex, which is unlikely to be a real improvement.

For the record I'd want some or all of the following:

Scouts down by 1 point, gain Grim Resolve OR go down by 2 points
The heavy 3 option on the Vengeance's plasma storm battery to lose Gets Hot. Seriously, overcharging a weapon shouldn't reduce the chance of it overheating!
The Vengeance's plasma storm to be twin linked. Like it is on the model...
Nephilim to be a little cheaper or for blacksword missiles to be boosted. The missile lock rule would help but I don't think it's quite enough.
PFG to work in transports like all other bubble effects
Storm Bolters to be included for the Standard of Devastation
A special clause that a full squad of 6 ravenwing bikes costs 160 instead of the very frustrating 161.
Slight reduction in points for Ezekial, Asmodai
Storm shield to be on the wargear list
Clause for Displacer field to be cheaper for chaplains and commanders since they already have a 4++
Monster slayer to be cheaper. Perhaps as low as 40 pts.
Undoing the FAQ change to Deathwing that prevents the sergeant from swapping weapons.
Reduction of Redeemer cost to match the SM codex

That should tide me over for a few years.
There are other things I'd like, but they'd take more work (needing a new codex rather than a FAQ) or are too wishlist-y to put here.

Spiney Norman
06-12-2014, 10:57
I expected the PFG to get nerfed by the FAQ again so I never tried to use it in a vehicle, but still, while it might make sense that the 'bubble' of the PFG cannot expand through the armour of a tank, rules-wise it's an unfair restriction when you compare it to similar items elsewhere in the game.

I also have little sympathy for players who game for advantage by using units in wargear in ways that don't make sense/obviously weren't intended and then cry foul when the option gets taken away via FAQ. The PFG wasn't nerfed, it just now works how it always should have worked.


For the record I'd want some or all of the following:

Scouts down by 1 point, gain Grim Resolve OR go down by 2 points
The heavy 3 option on the Vengeance's plasma storm battery to lose Gets Hot. Seriously, overcharging a weapon shouldn't reduce the chance of it overheating!
The Vengeance's plasma storm to be twin linked. Like it is on the model...
Nephilim to be a little cheaper or for blacksword missiles to be boosted. The missile lock rule would help but I don't think it's quite enough.
PFG to work in transports like all other bubble effects
Storm Bolters to be included for the Standard of Devastation
A special clause that a full squad of 6 ravenwing bikes costs 160 instead of the very frustrating 161.
Slight reduction in points for Ezekial, Asmodai
Storm shield to be on the wargear list
Clause for Displacer field to be cheaper for chaplains and commanders since they already have a 4++
Monster slayer to be cheaper. Perhaps as low as 40 pts.
Undoing the FAQ change to Deathwing that prevents the sergeant from swapping weapons.
Reduction of Redeemer cost to match the SM codex

That should tide me over for a few years.
There are other things I'd like, but they'd take more work (needing a new codex rather than a FAQ) or are too wishlist-y to put here.

I'd really like them to fix the Nephilim and the vengeance, I think I could live with he rest if I'm honest. Blackswords need to be Str7 to be average or gain armourbane vs flyers to be good, currently at S6 they are near worthless as one-shot weapons. Also the bolt cannon needs to be rending to be a viable option for either anti-armour or anti-heavy infantry.

The vengeance needs to lose gets hot, a vehicle that has an almost 10% chance of wrecking itself in its first volley using the multi-fire mode is a bad joke.

Zustiur
06-12-2014, 14:32
I also have little sympathy for players who game for advantage by using units in wargear in ways that don't make sense/obviously weren't intended and then cry foul when the option gets taken away via FAQ. The PFG wasn't nerfed, it just now works how it always should have worked.

Yes... and no. If all other bubble effects (Kustom Force Field, all battle standards, and probably other things I'm not familiar with) get bigger when in a transport, then the PFG should too.
I wouldn't complain if all such effects were treated the same way as the PFG is now, but so long as it is the odd one out, I'll complain.

Logically, all of those other things should not affect units outside of the vehicle, but they do. That's how the game works. The PFG should not be any different.


Mind you... now that I say that, I cannot find the rule that covers these effects in transports. Anyone got a page number?

Vipoid
06-12-2014, 14:36
The Kustom Force Field doesn't affect units outside of the vehicle - if it's in a transport, it affects the transport and nothing else.

SirBlackmane
06-12-2014, 14:50
PFG to work in transports like all other bubble effects


Umm, that's what they fixed. See the Ork KFF.

Zustiur
07-12-2014, 00:45
Then it appears that I have been mislead, or that this was a change from 6th to 7th that I somehow missed.
Do battle standards still get bigger? (particularly interested in the Imperial Guard ones, but DA ones are important too)

And again, can someone give me a page reference for how these effects work in transports? I still cannot find it.

shabbadoo
07-12-2014, 04:24
The Kustom Force Field doesn't affect units outside of the vehicle - if it's in a transport, it affects the transport and nothing else.
Well, the Orks now have that on the DA too, as the latest DA FAQ now says...


Page 64 – Power Field Generator
Add ‘If the bearer is embarked upon a Transport vehicle,
the power field’s effects only apply to models embarked
upon that vehicle’.

...and so the effects no longer apply to the vehicle, or most any embarked models, as embarked models on anything...other than a open-topped vehicle (which DA don't have) blasted by template weapons...can not be affected by anything. And so, if a model equipped with a PFG is embarked in a transport, what does the PFG do? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! Genius, eh? Thanks for the help, GW.

It wouldn't be too bad if this sort of thing only happened occasionally, but with regard to the DA there is a consistency of underachievement across four codexes, and that is what is truly maddening. It leads one to think either the writers really are utterly stupid, or they are doing it on purpose. It is hard to say which reason to hope for.

AngryAngel
07-12-2014, 05:21
Well, the Orks now have that on the DA too, as the latest DA FAQ now says...



...and so the effects no longer apply to the vehicle, as an embarked model on anything other than a open-topped vehicle (which the DA don't have) can not be affected by anything. And so, if a model equipped with a PFG is embarked in a transport, what does the PFG do? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! Genius, eh? Thanks for the help, GW.

It wouldn't be too bad if this sort of thing only happened occasionally, but with regard to the DA there is a consistency of underachievement across four codexes, and that is what is truly maddening. It leads one to think either the writers really are utterly stupid, or they are doing it on purpose. It is hard to say which reason to hope for.

This, so banners extend from transports, the KFF effects the vehicle, and the PFG only effects the people in the transport ? That is not only stupid, but leads into showing they seemingly love to keep DA as under achievers. Saying it makes no sense it effects outside the vehicle or even the vehicle, well that is all well and good, but then if its such a weak power field, how come it can effect multiple bane blades and even a whole bastion if not more ? Seems plenty strong to me. However you expect me to believe it can't even effect a rhino its embarked upon ? Pull the other one GW. its completely random crap FAQs.