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Tooooon
23-06-2006, 10:03
Here is the Information for this months issue of White Dwarf which just arrived in the post. Enjoy!

Freebies
A Poster for the Medusa V Campaign


Editorial
The White Dwarf is here still, telling us that the campaign has arrived, saying what we already know about it, and then tellinh us that the new Gotrek and Felix limited set thing is out and to go and buy it. So nothing changed here from last issue.


Letters Page
None existant. So they remove the WD forums and tell us to send them letters, them get rid of the letters page. Great.

Page Count
104


Pages of Adverts
34


Warhammer Fantasy Content
1) Picture and small amount of info for upcoming Warhammer release "Battle for Skull Pass" including box set info (FB Equivilant to Mines of Moria/Battle for Macragge)

2) General Info on Gortex, Felix and friends, with a painting guide for Gortex and Felix, and info on Grey Seer Thanquol.

3) Basic tatics Info on Beasts of Chaos, 2 Army lists, and 2 pages with a small amount of tatics on Wood Elves.

4) Four Pages of Heavy Metal Painted Wood Elves


Warhammer 40k Content
1) Two Pages on General Medusa V info, as well as info on how to sign up and such.

2) Battle Report Medusa V - Vostroyan + Ultramarines vs Death Guards + Black Legion. Sadly, No Map for whats happening, and lots of pictures replacing text.

3) Four Pages Modelling Workshop for Eldar Heavy Weapon's with stats for the different options of weapons as well as creating scenic bases

4) Four Pages Modelling Workshop for Tau Stealth Teams with their stats and point costs included.

5) Black Legion Army list for Medusa V in general, with some tips, what paints to use for colour scheme, etc...


Lord of the Rings Content
1) Four Pages of information for playing with Wood Elves, including 3 Army Lists on 3 of the pages.

2) Four Pages of Modelling Workshop on creating Lair of the Queen Spider, with info on materials to make it, how to make different bits of the scenery, shaping the spiders, etc..

3) One or two adverts for Two Towers and Legions of Middle Earth release

Summary
I must say, another dissapointing issue. I knew when I got it this morning, and took it out of its wrapping and felt the sheer lightness of it I was going to be in for a shock on not only page count, but amount of adverts. The issue just seems lacking in well.... everything! The Layout is still all over the place, the amount of adverts is higher than ever, while the page count is at an all time low. Sorry to say, but I personally am now cancelling my subscription after eagerly awaiting this issue hoping they would have took our comments on board (The complaints started issue 316, 3 months in advance, you do the maths), and at least improve it just a little. Sadly, there is no evidance of this and heh, what more can I say!

~Dave

cookiescrumble
23-06-2006, 11:46
5) Black Legion Army list for Medusa V in general, with some tips, what paints to use for colour scheme, etc...


Thats the army list i played at carnage, anyway nothing really special about the issue. The battle report seems quite interesting though.

Josh
23-06-2006, 11:54
I think to dismiss the new issue entirely is a bit unfair.Yes, there are a large number of adverts, a low page count and a somewhat haphazard layout, but I think you need to recognise that WD does show some signs of improvement. There is more text than in previous issues, and some criticisms seem to have been taken onboard. The battle report, although not as detailed as it used to be, was reasonably enjoyable, despite condensing turns into groups. The astronomican too has been largely removed, which i think is a great improvement. In short, I think it is clear that some changes have been made. It may take a while, but I think that eventually WD will regain its former glory.
Cheers,
Josh

Satan
23-06-2006, 12:09
I like it alot better than the former issues. I felt that there was alot of sensible content in there, and I'm pleased with my purchase of it.

The stealth suit blending into the background was especially cool.

The LOTR lair of the spider queen terrain board was also a great feature which the veteran could quickly comprehend - I'll be sure to pick some Kapok Fibre up for my Wood Elves. Anyone knows where to get it - send me a PM.

The battle report was also a big improvement IMO.

We need a poll here.

ThousandPlateaus
23-06-2006, 12:44
I received this in the post this morning, and I have to say it's almost the worst copy of WD I have ever come across - only 2 others spring to mind, and one of those has been in the last few months - and I've been buying WD now for around 14 years.
There is pretty much no content, every page serves as nothing more than an advert - most of which are duplicated at the back of the magazine. After last month's issue, I had genuinely thought that things were on the mend, but this has outraged me in it's poor quality and lack of substance.
I'm not a GW basher - they've been producing some sterling stuff over the past year or so - so I often keep quiet in what can often simply amount to a frenzy of backbiting and cattiness, but today I can't hold my tongue - it's abhorrent that they expect people to carry on buying such a poor quality product. Sadly, I'm stuck with it for the rest of the year... that free Shrine thingummy I got is now not really looking that worthwhile after all.
If you don't subscribe, then I recommend not purchasing this magazine - you won't miss a thing, unfortunately they've sneakily given away a free poster, so you won't be able to flick through the magazine first to find out just how poor it is.
The sooner Owen Rees is removed from his position the better. The magazine surely can not carry on in such an abysmal state.

Cherrystone
23-06-2006, 12:56
The astronomican too has been largely removed, which i think is a great improvement.

But the page count is down to early 1990's number (but then the font size was smaller)

WD really need substance from back ground articles, short stories and some rules, it cannot all be about the miniatures (and selling them) can it?

Now jervis johnson is even saying that the miniatures are more important then the games (standard bearer), surly if the game rules and background (and lack off) are rubbish apart from collectors and dedicated painters then no one would buy the miniatures, well i wouldnt anyway!

3 issues to the end of my subscription, i will renew if it it improves by then but from this issue and the last 3 i wont be.

Josh
23-06-2006, 13:03
[QUOTE=Cherrystone]But the page count is down to early 1990's number (but then the font size was smaller)

WD really need substance from back ground articles, short stories and some rules, it cannot all be about the miniatures (and selling them) can it?[QUOTE]

I agree with what your saying-WD still has a long way to go. However I do think that there is some improvement, or at least a recognition that things need to be changed, evident in the new issue.
Cheers
Josh

75hastings69
23-06-2006, 13:08
Just rubbish, that's all I have to say. I have read more interesting junk mail.

Steve

Osbad
23-06-2006, 13:12
Now jervis johnson is even saying that the miniatures are more important then the games (standard bearer), surly if the game rules and background (and lack off) are rubbish apart from collectors and dedicated painters then no one would buy the miniatures, well i wouldnt anyway!

I don't.... anymore.

"GW-free and proud since 2005!"

Remember when wargaming was fun and not just a constant round of rip-offs and disappointed? Me too! Which is why I've left GW behind and get my fix of gaming from other companies...

GW were OK as far as they went, but nowadays I'd rather set fire to my wallet than risk getting ripped off by them again!

Bob Hunk
23-06-2006, 13:20
surely if the game rules and background (and lack off) are rubbish apart from collectors and dedicated painters then no one would buy the miniatures, well i wouldnt anyway!

The funny thing is, I've never been inspired to collect an army just from lots of pictures of their models - it's always been the background and short stories that captured my imagination and started me buying! I wonder how many others there are like me...?

Bloodknight
23-06-2006, 13:28
Dito. I also tend to start armies because I want another style of play. If the minis look good, than that´s the cream on the cake.

ferrus
23-06-2006, 13:52
What a waste of trees. A few half-baked "guides" where half the page is filled with rules we have already, or painting tips even a 12 year old knows, a boring battle report and a rambling section by Jervis that goes along the lines "buy more models!" Then the rest was filled with adverts and pseudo-adverts (i.e. large pictures of Golden Daemon models and so on). Worst. Issue. Ever.

If this goes on much longer I'm not renewing my subscription, in fact unlike in the past, I have had no reason to go back and peruse the last few issues I have received.

ThousandPlateaus
23-06-2006, 13:52
I have bought some miniatures just on the strength of how beautiful they are, which I think is the jist of what JJ was saying - ForgeWorld BlackTemplars Venerable Dreadnought being prime example - I now have a miniature (no pun intended) BT force as allies to my WH force...
However - this isn't really the point and it's off-topic.
It's all very well for a company to produce some outstanding stuff, but it's not alright for the same company to try and pass off other substandard products on to it's client base - WD being case in point.
GW need to invest more love and attention into WD than any other product they produce as it's supposed to be their showcase of all-round excellence - excellence in miniature design, sculpting, painting, modelling, background creation, narrative, battle reporting, commentary and advice. It's also the one single product that all, every single one, of GW client-base will buy as it's a useful device to keep us hooked. At the moment it's doing none of the above - and even if they do showcase an excellent new miniature, they do so to excess making the whole exercise feel like a cynical marketing ploy.
It's a crying shame, particularly because we've all been privvy to those standards of excellence and know how acheivable and valuable they are! It has the potential to be a dynamic and exciting product, and I'm mostly concerned that due to lazy careerisms and misplaced belt-tightening that certain members of GW staff are allowing WD to slowly rot and slide away like a little nurgly **** in the corner.

ferrus
23-06-2006, 13:56
The GW management is clearly unimaginative in the extreme if it thinks pulling out this sort of horse **** will correct the company's financial nose dive.

Venkh
23-06-2006, 15:13
Its a shame that WD has taken such a nose dive of late, it really takes the shine off of the really good stuff GW are doing at the moment:


The 4th ED 40k codicies have been very sound and the new Eldar look to continue the trend
The COD supplement is excellent and the new buildings look amazing on the tabletop.
7th Ed warhammer sounds very promising and the boxed set looks like a real bargain
model lines for the Woodies and the Dwarfs were very high quality and the new O&G look very nice.
The new CAD technology should enable them to cut costs and produce some really excellent plastic projects (like the baneblade)


318 looked like a slight improvement, but 319 sounds like garbage. Its a shame as Guy Haley seemed to steer the Dwarf in a positive direction during the Sawyer transition period. So i wonder:


Is the new content Owens idea?
Did Guy change his mind about the layout?
Did the marketing department take over the magazine?
Did the studio stop writing decent contributions?
Did firing half the team put too much pressure on the survivors?


Or is it a hideous amalgum of all of the above.

Satan
23-06-2006, 15:55
Its a shame that WD has taken such a nose dive of late, it really takes the shine off of the really good stuff GW are doing at the moment:

[LIST]
model lines for the Woodies and the Dwarfs were very high quality and the new O&G look very nice.


I agree with the rest, but don't get me started on Wardancers without eyes, shoes and leather bindings or the Glade Riders.

Sorry for OT.

Nah, I rather liked this issue, granted, I'm a WE player, and even if there weren't much REAL content for them I still thought it a good one. I can't find Dok Butcha though, which makes me sad... :-(

bravefew
23-06-2006, 16:01
Thousandplateaus I completely agree with your comments.

White Dwarf is and should be the main showpiece of the whole company. It was the main vehicle which attracted me (and my wallet) to the hobby in the first place.

Detailed Battle reports were not only enjoyable for the story but also taught strategy and the rules of the game as a by-blow. I originally learnt more about playing from reading the battle reports than from just reading the rulebook as it gave an example that made the rules "live".

The old masterclasses both showcased the "hot new models" and provided guidance and inspiration to try to achieve a whole new level of painting.

This WD is a serious step back from the last edition in my view (which still had a long way to go to get to former levels). The battle report (which had great potential) was a waste as it has sunk to the level of "I shot a lot and killed lots of the enemy". Recent painting guides are at the "how to reach a really basic tabletop level".

I have seen a lot of commentary on this and other forums that WD has no place, as the internet has taken over its role. I do not believe that this is true or that, if this is indeed GWs strategy, that it is a wise one. WD is the main advertising vehicle of the GW brand and it is in the interests of every company that it maintains strong central control over its brand and image. In a gaming company content, fluff and quality are key to long term markets and survival. If their prime advertising medium ceases to reflect those characteristics then they are asking for trouble - they cannot rely on fansites to keep this going with any consistency.


I fear that WD has really reached the level of a pure glossy picture mag, a collection of advertising posters, with no content to speak of. Unfortunately, I will not be renewing my subscription.

75hastings69
23-06-2006, 16:22
If this goes on much longer I'm not renewing my subscription, in fact unlike in the past, I have had no reason to go back and peruse the last few issues I have received.

Me too. I used to have all my WD on a shelf (a very large shelf!) on a bookcase, just for handy reference when it used to be full of interesting articles etc. Now though when I have finished reading the new WD (usually takes about 30 mins now:mad: ) it just goes up in the loft in a box. Simply because I know that I will have no need or desire to ever look at that issue again. In fact I have just decided I am cancelling my subscription.

John Wayne II
23-06-2006, 16:37
I'll reserve my brilliant criticisms when I actually read it, but what has been written so far is not encouraging. The page count is enough to put me off.

Heru Talon
23-06-2006, 17:33
Why is it Jervis makes it seem like GW thinks it's biggest customer base is 12 and below (ie Jervis's kids).

Anyone truely serious about the hobby would never have used the line "Toy Soldiers come first"!

what in my exper opinion (I've been playing the game since just before the release of 3rd edition) makes the hobby great is the combination, not any particular thing in itself.

The Painting, the collecting, the gaming, the interaction with other people of similar interest, and the fluff is what makes this hobby great, and White Dwarf SHOULD reflect that.

Jervis to me has become just another of GW's suit propoganda pawns and his latest article is akin to those letters saying WD was really great now from last month.

What would I prefer to hear from his article, well maybe he could take the time to tell us what goes into making the Codices, and the fluff.

Oh and 14 pages down is ridicules even with a poster (if your going to release something as free, make it free and don't damage the rest of the mag).

Owen Rees needs to go, bring back an Editor who knew what he was doing and is willing to stand up for himself.


Now this is just from about an hours reviewing, I'll be back later with a more detailed review.

Tymell
23-06-2006, 17:48
The main thing I don't like about the Jervis thing is it's not at all what the article type is supposed to be! Damn it, it's not a Jervis blog! It's -supposed- to be some advance news, info on what's going on inside the team, that sort of thing. I actually really liked Standard Bearer at first, but this month I read it and just...well, blinked :wtf:

It's with this issue that I narrowed down what I personally see as the main problem with WD, and it's pretty much in agreement with others on here about it being a glorified catalogue. There just isn't enough "amateur" stuff in there. What I mean is no articles by people not on the team (hell, hardly any true "articles" at all to be frank), no showcased armies from players, no reports from people not on the WD team, you get the idea. All battle reports now just use the armies we see in all the other pictures, and I don't want that! I want to see some variation, not just the same models recycled over and over again. This also of course gives the wrong impression to newcomers, that all modesl of that type have to be painted that way. There's just not enough there from outsiders. Older WDs have loads of that stuff, and it made them much more varied.

The other thing is a more broad issue, but basically just the CONSTANT re-releasing. this might be covered elsewhere, but I'm totally sick of every single month some army being redone when it's totally unecessary. 7th edition warhammer? Excuse me? Where did THAT come from?! :eyebrows: Didn't we just finish the new releases of all the 6th edition stuff? And not to mention 40K, that was more like a rules update, and yet they take it as an excuse for redoing every damn army and army book. The impact is that it's nothing special anymore, and the impact on WD is that they're filled with all the latest re-release. Articles on how to paint them, how they work, how to play them, battle reports just showcasing the latest armies (as opposed to the old style battle reports, which were interesting, original and well made). Each WD just shows off the new army now, which we've all seen before anyway and just goes totally overboard.

*rant over*

I do apologise for all that, I really do. Oh btw, on a lighter note, has anyone else noticed that the assault cannons on the Land Raider Crusader in the battle report (page 25) are completely wonky? :rolleyes:

Damien 1427
23-06-2006, 18:03
100 pages, or close enough? For 4?

That's pathetic. Hell, I paid that for the Journal and Fanatic, but they had articles I enjoyed reading and rarely disapointed... I even still have my first issue of the Journal, with an Ork Freebooter on the cover, which I bought in Dundee visiting relatives. I've read that so many times it's almost falling apart. I doubt any issue of the Dwarf in recent years will be that enjoyed.

Alabama-Shrimp
23-06-2006, 18:10
I dont think i can put into words how i feel anout the current situation of WD and GW in general, Im just sick of being had for a ****** and ripped off.

75hastings69
23-06-2006, 19:47
I called GW to complain about the standard of WD and also to cancel my sub. I was told that WD is now an advertising medium, as GW dont use billboards, TV etc. and this was the best way to gain a new catchment of 10 year olds. I am that pissed off with WD that I feel I could just wrap with the whole hobby, it is so obvious that they don't give a f*%k about what the consumer wants.

I wonder if it would acheive anything if every Warseer (& other forums) WD subscriber called and cancelled their sub, as sort of a protest?

EvC
23-06-2006, 19:59
I was in two minds over whether I'd be buying WD this month, but this thread has certainly tipped the balance. The only thing of interest I see is the battle report, but I don't even play 40K, so what is there for me?

Now watch the sales drop, and GW respond by, I dunno, adding even more adverts to make each sale more cost-effective. I am consistently amazed at how the people in charge at GW fail to understand the concept of "cause and effect".

ThousandPlateaus
23-06-2006, 20:06
See - many of these arguments are what I was kind of naively hoping to avoid; yes, I am angry and frustrated by what's happened/happening to WD, but I don't want to drag this thread into a "OMG GW are teh evilzz!" kind of rant - whilst it might make me feel better, personally, I don't share many of those sentiments.

I don't feel ripped off by GW - not completely. As Venkh said above, GW have produced some astounding stuff over the past year or so: all codicies (whilst slight of fluff) have been well made, researched and presented; they've produced some of the finest miniatures of all time and continue to innovate with dynamic casting methods which could pave the way for great new stuff; the CoD building sets are stunning - I bought the £100 box set on the day of release and it's one of my best purchases from GW - and no, I don't feel ripped off by the hefty price tag as I could barely carry the box home and I'll be constructing with that box for months...
If GW continue to innovate with products of this calibre with this regularity, then I think they could persevere as a brilliant tabletop wargaming company - I can think of no better.

However, WD is probably the most important part of the company, imho - as I said before, it's what keeps us gripped and what hooks many people into the game in the first place. Or at least, this is what it should be doing.
I'm hugely annoyed by a few things:
the decline in paper quality (a £4 magazine should not be printed so cheaply, and the cover needs to be taken back to it's previous standard as currently it's just getting ruined);
the decline in design layout (you need Quark or Indesign skills for even the most basic jobs these days - if noone at GW can use these programmes, then hire someone who can or send someone on a course);
the decline in content (I was hoping this was a glitch whilst they decided what to do regarding Chapter Approved, etc - but now with that gone, scenery building guides at a minimum, Doc Butcha missing, letters pages withdrawn, battle reports not written properly, tactica dumbed down to an appalling level, etc etc...);
the rise in 'filler' (you are lucky if you get instructions on how to build kits in their actual boxes, I do not need FOUR pages devoted to 'how to build a heavy weapons platform I will never own'; I do not need 35 pages of adverts - cleverly written articles, interesting armies, dynamic themes are all the best adverts you could possibly have for GW products - not a picture of a box);

I'm going to stop because I can feel myself ranting. The internet isn't killing off WD - laziness and poor editorial decisions are killing WD. There is nothing more integral to the GW hobby than WD because it offers us news, ideas, inspiration and entertainment and I'm cross because (perhaps stupidly) I genuinely care about the quality of it, and what it stands for. Even if my army wasn't mentioned at all for months, I never used to care, because there was always something to take my breath away - now however, there's nothing to even raise an eyebrow, and it's really saddening.

Wintermute
23-06-2006, 20:18
Just a couple of corrections/observations from some of the previous posts

WD319 has 104 pages plus cover not 102 as stated.

More importantly Owwn Rees doesn't edit WD, well not all of it. Owen only edits the UK content - which is vey little. WD is edited by Guy Haley and designed by Games Dev - check the credits on the inside front cover for the full details.



Back to the current issue-

I noticed the drop in pagination very quickly because it felt thinner. Yes a lot of the 'chaff' has been dropped ie the letters page, The Astronomicon and the UK editorial page, none of which will be missed. However, I am concerned about drop in pagination - its the second drop this year.

I still think Jervis' column is a wasted opportunity. What was the brief this time? Was it see how many times you can mention the words Citadel Miniatures in a 500 word article?

I do think WD is improving, slowly. Its obvious to me the recent drop in quality is due to the time taken to alter how WD is produced ie it used to be produced by the UK WD team then altered for other counties. Its now produced by Games Dev and local content is then added.

The big question is, why didn't GW get the infrastructure in place sooner and why did they make such as mess of the change over?


edit

ThousandPlateaus
Will you please delete one of the above two posts?

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

ThousandPlateaus
23-06-2006, 21:32
ThousandPlateaus
Will you please delete one of the above two posts?
Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

Done. Apologies - it was an error with my substandard ISP.
Also, it was I who first mentioned Owen Rees, and you're quite right - I had taken him for chief editor, which was a mistake and I (sort-of) retract my comment about him.

Insane Psychopath
23-06-2006, 21:54
I wonder if it would acheive anything if every Warseer (& other forums) WD subscriber called and cancelled their sub, as sort of a protest?

Hell no, I found WD to slow improve. Say a year ago it WAS utter poo when the nids just came out. It was nothing but ad ever 3 pagies.

But now, they have started to bring back those cool armies for exsample: George Dellapina Imperial Guard Strom Trooper army.

Thought brought back a Grand Tournament 40k report which shown my friends in there (My friend got Best Genral).

For me as long as they do bring back cool armies done by other, sure I may not collect them, but I find they still give me idear for my own armies. Also with Chris Black Legion army going be in this months, I can not wait to see the,


Owen Rees needs to go, bring back an Editor who knew what he was doing and is willing to stand up for himself.

I find Owen done a better job than Guy ever did. But rememeber he is new & he will bring in some new stuff & as seen is slow improving. Give him time.

I should be getting my own copy tomorrow

IF you want to know the worst WD, check out No:307 that the one I refer to with nothing but ad everwhere & nothing of intrest as for 40k it none stop kill teams, I do not like fighting kill team battles.

IP

ferrus
23-06-2006, 22:42
What narks me is that there is no fluff or rules printed not seen elsewhere. That is what I used to enjoy about WD, something that would allow you to add something special in your games. I used to get very excited by the prospect of reading the new Chapter Approved, Index Astrates or any other crunchy article. 'Eavy Metal tutorials are fine if they are aimed at advanced techniques to give your model an extra shine, not just to repeat the basic techniques for each model, god knows GW prints enough books for that anyway. As for the battle reports, I have never been a big fan, but I did enjoy it where there was something of a story there, which it appears there is no longer beyond perfunctory attempts. Hell, even Medusa V pales in comparison to the effort they gave to Armaggedon and the Eye of Terror.

Jervis may prattle on about how models are they key to the game, but I don't buy GW models to sit on the shelf and look pretty. I mean I'd buy such articles from somewhere else. GW sales its, admittedly high quality models, on the back of the fact that you play games with it.

Games are fun if:
(a) the rules are good (and not simplified to draw in the 2-3 age market)
(b) the background fluff is sufficiently enthralling to make campaigns and battles interesting affairs.

In comparison to models the production costs of the printed material is rather low. The GW exectuives should get their heads out of their uncreative arses and realise that there are places for various models. If you want open advertising, posters, flyers and catalouges (free! - not £5 "Collector guides", you're trying to sell the damn models for god's sake) which are fun to browse through. White Dwarf should be treated in the same manner as the Army/Setting books: as a vehicle through which one buys models because the rules, background and advice in the magazine is interesting! A good magazine helps enhance the whole ethos of the company.

GW in my opinion needs to focus its capacities back to where they belong. WD, as much as Black Library books and Army books not only generate revenue but help keep the hobbyist in the game. WD should be a hobbyists magazine, this does not mean amateur articles, but rather professional articles for hobbyists. I would bring back Citadel Journel too to help the ethos but anyway.

GW nosedive also reveals the flaw in their asinine plan to target kiddies: these kids are a mercurial bunch, the GW fad has well and truely had its day, and unsurprisingly GW is suffering. The grizzled veteran hobbyists will always stay, yet nostalgia is only a slight force. GW will find as it retreats back to its core base that it has lost much support amongst these, many of whom are now playing more traditional wargames, Privateer Press wargames or even Roleplaying. GW need to grab the initiative here, in a way Wizards of the Coast have so adroitly done.

However I can't see such clever tactics beening employed by the staid GW management. The doltish way in which they keep on rising prices, contrary to simply economics that says for a luxury good like models (elastic demand), consumers are likely to give up their purchases readily. Which I think has stung GW too. How they could not see that the LoTR bubble would burst I do not know. They are typical of a company that is successful through a fad: they become arrogant and take an almost disinterested view of the market as all collapses around them, because of course they made the original GW boom, they know how to resolve it, which ignores the luck they were given. A history of Sega here is salutory.

cookiescrumble
24-06-2006, 10:13
My subscription runs out in August, if it wasn't for my mum paying for it i wouldn't renew it.

ashc
24-06-2006, 22:28
took a look at this round my mates today; i finished flicking through in under 5minutes, there is justy nothing there any more.

oh well, Hastings has basically confirmed what we knew was happening all along.

i think its time to say a rather painful byebye to WD, mourn its loss, pick yourself up and move on though; not much to be done about it.

Ash

ExquisiteEvil
25-06-2006, 00:40
My subscription runs out in August, if it wasn't for my mum paying for it i wouldn't renew it.

So why still renew it?

As has been mentioned, people NOT buying WD will have more of a chance of getting them to change it than people buying and complaining...

Just tell your mum you'd rather the 60 quid to spend on something else...

tzeentchgiant
25-06-2006, 02:22
Can whoever makes these please include a poll.

I find it very useful (provided it's public) in determining whether or not to buy an issue. I'm a bit surprised one hasn't been added yet.

TG

cookiescrumble
25-06-2006, 08:20
So why still renew it?

As has been mentioned, people NOT buying WD will have more of a chance of getting them to change it than people buying and complaining...

Just tell your mum you'd rather the 60 quid to spend on something else...

She buys it for me, my brother and sister (who loves the LOTR articles).

Jellicoe
25-06-2006, 09:24
Good points

- finally got rid of 6 pages of store listings
- a battle report with an element of fluff at the front
- an attempt at a LOTR tactica
- contents of skull pass box set
- cool stealthed stealth suit

Bad

- 6 pages of store finder listings not replaced with articles just taken out
- eldar support platform instruction guide:wtf: No painting tips and only the pinning thing being of any use
- zero warhammer content beyond an extended advert for beastmen, made just about tolerable by the two beastman armies featured
-battle report itself still utterly incomprehensible - city fight with no maps is even more impossible to follow than normal boards. A real shame as the scenario was cool. Using the pages saved from store listings could have made it a really decent article as the fluff, scenario, armies and premise of the whole thing was good

no white dwarf editorial team updates - are they in hiding now or have they also been removed as a further cost cutting exercise??

Overall - still poor, still lacking depth and proper articles, still too many repeated images and too much wasted space

some improvements but certainly not of the calibre I expect

Must try harder (a damn sight harder)

Crube
25-06-2006, 09:31
Can whoever makes these please include a poll.

I find it very useful (provided it's public) in determining whether or not to buy an issue. I'm a bit surprised one hasn't been added yet.

TG


I agree, although reading through the thread is also of use, especially as I no longer have a subscription...

318 + 319 are the first issues i've missed since 110... I flicked through 318 in GW the other month, and having read this thread - I don't think I'm missing much. Very sad...

BloodiedSword
25-06-2006, 11:12
Honestly, I cannot believe how bad this issue is. There is not a single "article" in the whole issue!

The recycled and completely irrelevant cover picture was the first warning. "Content" starts at page 20, with a couple of pages advertising Medusa V (as if anyone didn't know already).

The battle report was an abomination. "2000 pts approx"? "1000 pts approx"? No army lists? No diagrams showing set up nor in game movement, making the whole thing impossible to follow? No structure at all in the write up, reducing it to "the opening turns" "the mid turns" and "the final turns"?

Granted, the quality of writing was decent, but it wasn't a battle report. Why have they cut out everything useful and interesting about the battle reports and just turned it into one massive advert?

Standard Bearer was an interesting read, even if it literally says nothing except "BUY MODELS EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT FOR YOUR ARMY, SPEND MORE ".

The Gotrek and Felix part was reasonable for the painting guides, even though the whole thing was a non even thinly veiled advertisement for the models and novels. Still, 4 pages of content for 8 actual pages is about as good as it gets these days.

I don't read the LotR section but I'll assume there was something useful in there.

Now a Beastman section which is simply horrific. It tells you nothing about the army, what it's like to play, strategies for using them, or anything useful at all. It serves as nothing but "oh look, we're not selling enough Beastmen. Better plug them in the next WD". The two army lists appear to be pulled straight from the website, and they've wasted an opportunity to write a useful mini tactica by allowing so little space that they only have time to say "march block with founds and charge with chariots and gribblies". 10 out of painfully obvious.

Next a 4 page spread of wood elves, just to show us models that we've already seen before (and which I have to admit, I personally don't like at all). The only half useful bits are the guides to horns and seasonal variants, both of which have been done before. No more reprints please.

Lair of the Spider queen was interesting, even though I'm not a terrain person. But then did we really need a 4 page spread on "how to assemble your anti grav platform, in case you missed the instructions in the box" followed by another 2 on "how to assemble your stealth suits, for the same"?

The cloaked stealthsuit was mightily cool though - the highlight of the issue for me. Don't know why the next page titles itself "using stealth suits" when all it is the rules for stealth suits with not even a hint of tactica.

Then a 2 page spread on Christian Byrne's interesting Black legion, the last island of readability in an ocean of spam and advertising that ends the issue.

8 pages of interesting article in 100+ pages of magazine does NOT make me feel like I've spent my money well. I'm just glad my subscription runs out in a month's time.

Luke
25-06-2006, 11:52
Utter *****.


The worst WD I have ever read. Its a shame my subscription doesn't run out untill December. New releases cover to cover and not a single article of any depth or insight that isnt trying to force me to buy their new plastic tat. £4 for a bunch of prety pictures? No thanks.

At least the Argos catalogue is free.

Go buy Wargames Illustrated. It's a REAL wargames mag for REAL wargames.

Moralein
25-06-2006, 17:33
Hi everyone,
this is my first post here.

Oddly enough I was referred here by a mod on the GW forums!

I do miss the WD forum over on the GW site and I feel that it's shortsighted of GW to close it. The posts on that board were generally well thought out and argued. Fair enough, lately they had been more aggressive, but I feel that this is a reflection of the fact that no action was taken and no official response was forthcoming.

Anyway back to topic, got my copy of WD319 on Friday, to say I was disappointed is an understatement. The magazine is as short as I've ever known it (just over 100 pages). The content has continued to decline and WD is becoming little more than a catalogue.

First 20 pages are the usual 'New Releases' section. Loads of white space and the same pictures that we've seen before.

Next 20 pages is the 40k battle report, as has been said before, you can't follow a city fight battle without maps. Even worse when the turns are all combined into start, middle and end turns.

Jervis's section is little more than 'but cool models'. No news or interesting information.

10 pages to highlight the Gotrek and Felix models (no mention of the fact that they're not the same scale as 'normal' models though).

4 pages of LOTR Wood Elves

7 pages of Beastmen, very light on content.

4 pages of a very basic painting guide.

4 pages of scenery articles, actually pretty informative.

6 pages of how to stick models together, is this information not on the boxes?

Couple of pages of a very sweet stealth suit-one of the few highlights.

4 pages of Golden Demon, always nice to see what we should be aspiring to.

4 pages of Black Legion, another good article but very light on content.

The rest of the mag is the usual events and Mail Order stuff.

All-in-all a disappointing issue and my last for a while. I've been a subscriber for 8 years and have been reading WD since 180. Yesterday I contacted Mail Order and cancelled my subscription. I got a refund for all the outstanding subscription and was asked why I was cancelling. I did ask if the current problems with WD were a glitch and things were going to improve but was told that this is the new WD and GW is very happy with it! The troll I spoke to did say that all such feedback would be passed on to Owen. Hopefully if enough people cancel their subscription GW might start to take notice.


Anyway enough of my mutterings, but it is good to post in what looks to be a friendly open forum.

Luke
25-06-2006, 17:45
Wait.. I can cancel it?


Now, should I? It was after all a Xmas gift...


INteresting to hear the GW forums closed their wd threads. Presumably us warseers are not the only ones on the planet who see WD for what it is.


edit--------

hello btw! :D

Heru Talon
25-06-2006, 19:06
What I guess really bugs me the most is that GW haven't even tried to release any official explantion as to why the magazine became what it now is.


If they say it's a transition period, I'd be with that for awhile...

ashc
25-06-2006, 19:30
it isnt a transition period, this is how WD is going to be now; a monthly miniatures catalogue aimed at getting kiddies interested.

confirmed by Hastings when he gave GW direct a call.

Ash

IJW
25-06-2006, 19:56
As someone who unsubscribed back around issue 200, all these complaints sound horribly, horribly familiar. WD has been an advertising organ for GW for a good 15 years, ever since they stopped featuring anything by other companies.

I'll be interested to see 319, because it was issue 318 that actually got me back into gaming, mostly because of CoD!

Splagbot
25-06-2006, 20:23
This is my first posting outside of the introduction section and it saddens me that the first posting I make is to criticize, but I have been into the hobby for almost 17 years and I don't think that WD has ever been in a worse state than it is now, yes there have been periods of transition in the past but this really takes the biscuit.

Heres hoping it's going to buck up, but I'm not holding my breath.

Tooooon
25-06-2006, 20:28
Superb Opinions peeps, keep them coming!

About there being no poll, wasnt able to create due to post count. If a Mod can add one, would be apprechated.

But to be honest, you really dont need a poll to tell you that this issue is NOT worth spending £4.00 according to myself and liturally everyone who has posted in this topic.

At least ill be able to have a good whine at Games Day first thing in the morning so I can spend the rest of the day having an awesome time.... That is if the Market team hasnt taken over that as well....

tzeentchgiant
26-06-2006, 00:27
There's a postcount limit for polls?

Anyways, if a mod could... (and make it public too please :)).

I still find a poll useful, even if I don't plan on buying it, it sums the thread up without having to troll through it to find out the thoughts of people whos opinion I value.

TG

Heru Talon
26-06-2006, 02:17
confirmed by Hastings when he gave GW direct a call.


Yet still it's not an official notice to everyone all in one go. In fact not to doubt Hastings at all but in order to confirm that I'd have to call up GW or write them.

Agamemnon2
26-06-2006, 04:42
I tend to measure all WDs by the same yardstick, which is UKWD222, a thoroughly excellent issue with what I can the Best. Battle report. EVER: "Glazer's Creek". Needless to say, all recent issues fall flat in comparison.

Luke
26-06-2006, 05:59
Lol, i use issue 223 :D

it was my first issue and is a supreme example of how WD should be.

ashc
26-06-2006, 07:19
Yet still it's not an official notice to everyone all in one go. In fact not to doubt Hastings at all but in order to confirm that I'd have to call up GW or write them.


As if GW are actually going to make a public announcement over their intentions for this; this is NOT a transition period; this is the mag now.

Ash

Tooooon
26-06-2006, 12:03
Lol, i use issue 223 :D

it was my first issue and is a supreme example of how WD should be.

282 over here :P Its got everything! Great battle reports, Great fluff for different characters, Great amount of techniques in there, etc...

Avian
26-06-2006, 12:49
I've added a poll. Since this involved creating a new thread with a poll in it and moving all the contents of the previous thread into it (at a time when the server was often very busy), I hope I don't have to do so again very often. :p

Osbad
26-06-2006, 13:27
Well, I just voted (thanks to Avian!) Gave it a "2".

Now we just have to wait for the two fanboys who give it a 10 everytime...

Chuffy
26-06-2006, 14:09
I tend to measure all WDs by the same yardstick, which is UKWD222, a thoroughly excellent issue with what I can the Best. Battle report. EVER: "Glazer's Creek". Needless to say, all recent issues fall flat in comparison.

Same here actually! Wd222 was the first WD I brought with my OWN MONEY, I remember it like it wuz yesterday...Don't forget, it also had Mike Walkers first article in there, I think a Gorkamorka BatRep...a good issue for sure.

There is an issue that stands out for shitness though that isn't in the 300's. The one when Hordes of Chaos was released, because they gave away a free poster in the issue they couldn't include a battlereport:wtf:

Plus the actual content was terrible, especially the LOTR stuff. However this was back when FOTR was around...the WD LOTR stuff really was substandard then.

Mr Tiddles
26-06-2006, 16:58
Well, I just voted (thanks to Avian!) Gave it a "2".

Now we just have to wait for the two fanboys who give it a 10 everytime...

Well someone has to balance out the GW haters who give it a two every time
:angel:

The Judge
26-06-2006, 19:27
Usually it deserves the two, to be honest.

ferrus
26-06-2006, 22:58
Well this issue either. Which I would fell was rather generous actually.

I'm sure GW is happy with it, the problem is those who pay, that is us, are not!

*Sigh* I suppose GW relies on the hordes of asinine little kiddies buying it. With lots of pictures. :)

darren redstar
27-06-2006, 08:53
What depresses me about wd is that in other areas Gw aren't doing THAT badly, despite the monstrosotys that are the possessed csms, the cities of death stuff, esp. the buildings and vostroyans have been excellent- for some reason however the imaginations/writing skills of those on white dwarf seemto have shut down and p----d off to watch the world cup.
for example the 'rules' for the vostroyans were a joke.
what most depressed me about 319 was that they reduce the page count and then increase the size of the font, when will they realise that you can not hide lack of content by writing really big....










....and leaving large blank areas

Yarick Zan
27-06-2006, 08:56
i rate this WD (and its probably the first ive ever read) about 3 because i think its seriously not worth the money. if i wanted that many adds i could have easily picked up a porno for probably cheaper, even then it was full of stuff id label as crap. it was a rather depressing buy in my opinion.

75hastings69
27-06-2006, 09:09
I gave it a 2 - I am not even going to bether complaining about the stuff I dont like in it - in fact I should have given it a 1 - Where is Dok Butcha?

To be honest I look forward to the credit card applications that come through the post about as much as I do WD these days, used to be I couldn't wait to get my hands on WD - now I don't think I would even notice if it didn't turn up!!

Helbrass
27-06-2006, 11:46
Absolutely dire issue. I will not be renewing my subscription when it comes up unless there is a significant improvement. I am intending to write to GW to tell them also. This seems to be the only way to have any impact. If you actually take the time to write & post a physical letter, maybe yuo are serious?

Chris

Morph
27-06-2006, 12:39
Gave it a 3, and now I'm thinking I was generous. Read through my friend's copy in about 10 mins yesterday (out of our club of perhaps 15 people only one person gets WD) and the only thing I remember liking now is that cool stealthsuit. The painting section for G&F was ok, better than some painting guides, though nothing that hadn't be seen before.

Possibly the worst bit - I had to read and re-read the beastman section to find out if there was actually any content (answer: no).

It's becoming a cliche now to complain about WD each month, but the sad fact seems to be is that no matter how bad you consider it was a year or 2 ago (or even longer), each month on it actually manages to get worse and worse. How long till each page is just a picture of a space marine with the words BUY NOW!!! in huge letters?

Tooooon
27-06-2006, 22:47
I've added a poll. Since this involved creating a new thread with a poll in it and moving all the contents of the previous thread into it (at a time when the server was often very busy), I hope I don't have to do so again very often. :p

Cheers matey xD Dont worry, by the time next issue arrive and if im the first to make topic again, I should have enough post counts bu then :P

Jedi152
28-06-2006, 08:42
I won't be buying any more until this 40k thing is over with.

I'm getting sick of the word Medusa.

purplehoob
28-06-2006, 09:18
Well I voted and gave it a 2, I have to say I have not bought it but flicked through the issue. These days I do this just to see if it's worth my hard earned money.

Guess what it wasn't, like most of you I used to buy the Dwarf sight unseen but now I want to check the body work for rust. Recently there hasn't been any body work just vauge promises of things to come.

I think I will write them a letter as they don't want feedback on a forum now. Maybe if we all do this they will close the postbox for mail at head office...

ExquisiteEvil
28-06-2006, 20:01
You should've done a GW style poll...

a/It was terrible
b/It was really terrible
c/I dont exist

The boyz
28-06-2006, 20:33
I dont think I will buy the latest WD now, especially after seeing the results from the poll. Issues 319 sounds absolutley awful, I think I will save my four quid.

Dr. Who
28-06-2006, 22:46
Another [insert you own derogatory word here] of an issue. Gave it a 2.

- Dr.

Ifurita
29-06-2006, 05:04
I gave it a 4. Does anyone else think that some of the Golden Demon pics were atrocious? I think the one which stuck out to me was one of the youngblood entries. Yuck

Venkh
29-06-2006, 15:11
Had a look at it last night. Im bored with contstructive criticism, everything i want to say has been said by someone else.

Toilet.

Tooooon
29-06-2006, 16:23
Had a look at it last night. Im bored with contstructive criticism, everything i want to say has been said by someone else.

Dont worry, its not the GW forums (must be constructive or LOCK) hehe.

I was in me local GW two days ago and had a convo with the staff working there since he was the only one there about the quality of WD recently and such, and he started going on about how this issue was a "Turning Point" and now its "Improving Again". Yeaaah, I think he needs glasses :)

Keravin
29-06-2006, 16:53
Well having now compared the US editions of the last few I've decided to never buy the UK one again unless there is something major in there that I want. My problems all stem from the International content, because I look in the US edition and they have battle reports that make sense with maps, which the international content does not. They also have good army focuses - the recent Wood Elf one has inspired me to look again at painting up my new Wood elves.

The feeling I'm left with on the UK editions is that they are being hampered by no staff on the UK section, fewer pages than the US version and sub par content that all the WDs have to put up with. The Cities of Death stuff has been ok, primarily because I'm interested I think. I do like the sprue analysis as it's useful from a modelling perspective, but apart from that it's been dross.

thommo
29-06-2006, 19:29
today i have been out on the pi$$ all day with some mates from work...we did a north suffolk pub crawl using the train to get from village to village.
I bought WD as i knew i had about a 20 min train journey to meet them all and then about an hour wait at the end of the day. The best thing about WD in this 1 hr 20 min period was when i usedit to mop up the pepsi which my drunken mits knocked over in McDonalds whilst waiting for the train home.

conclusion, crap mag and, unfortunately, an even worse tissue!! Scores 2.

By the way - i can recommend the village of Reedham on the Norfolk / Suffolk border for a very pleasant riverside pint!

Yorkiebar
29-06-2006, 20:00
No Fuel For The Furnace! :cries: That's just about all I read in WD now. Ah well, never mind...

Gave it a 6, by the way. Probably a bit generous.

cailus
30-06-2006, 01:27
I gave it a 4. Does anyone else think that some of the Golden Demon pics were atrocious? I think the one which stuck out to me was one of the youngblood entries. Yuck


In Aussie WD 318 some of the Golden Demon pictures were heavily pixelated or unfocused. Apparently the Golden Demon section is meant to be a showcase for peoples' painting. Yet all this one showcased was a lack of quality control in their printing process.

Luke
30-06-2006, 08:38
LOL, it makes me crease everytime. Someone actually gave it a 10. Even at its best WD never made it this high. For a mag to score 10 with me it would have to:

1: have a hologram cover
2: have a free miniature on it
3: have a naked witch elf in the centre spread :D


I cant say i'd rate ANY magazine I have ever brought a 10 out of 10

Jellicoe
30-06-2006, 11:18
The guy who always gives it a 10 is either

a) a secret GW staffer who has been ordered to inflitrate web sites and talk up the product
b) a snotty kid who thinks WD is teh uBerist
c) a very contrary person who puts a 10 because everyone else is slating it

Finn Sourscowl
30-06-2006, 13:08
The guy who always gives it a 10 is either

a) a secret GW staffer who has been ordered to inflitrate web sites and talk up the product
b) a snotty kid who thinks WD is teh uBerist
c) a very contrary person who puts a 10 because everyone else is slating it


I'd go for the first. In fact, given that in previous WD feedback threads (pre- 316), Owen himself made a few posts, it wouldn't surprise me if it were him and one of the other Dwarf staff who are voting 10. From Owen's comments we know that he thought 316 was amazing, so he obviously likes the new WD format.

Of course, it could just be has c :wtf: there are some very strange people out there!

Gen.Steiner
30-06-2006, 14:48
...I have to say it's almost the worst copy of WD I have ever come across ... There is pretty much no content, every page serves as nothing more than an advert - most of which are duplicated at the back of the magazine. After last month's issue, I had genuinely thought that things were on the mend, but this has outraged me in it's poor quality and lack of substance ... The sooner Owen Rees is removed from his position the better. The magazine surely can not carry on in such an abysmal state.

I agree completely. One other thing:

Battle Reports need maps! Maps, with turn-by-turn movement and casualties!

The Gotrek and Felix thing was rubbish, pure and simple. "Buy our stupidly expensive 28mm models!!!1!" Then their pimping of the insanely expensive 'Citadel Masters' paint set (constant references to "this was painted with the Masters' brushes..." for example) got to me.

The Eldar Support Platform was too reminiscent of the Giant debacle. I'm not interested in seeing a layout of what you get, I'm interested in articles about people's armies, how they use their support platforms, and so on.

I shall not be renewing my subscription unless and until there's a marked improvement in standard.

EDIT:

Bring back Mike's articles (the comedy Warhammer man), bring back reader content, bring back interesting and useful series like Tale of Four Gamers or Paul Sawyer and Chris Byrne's "I build an army" articles. Bring back Chapter Approved, Index [whatever], background stories (not book extracts!), bring back proper batreps, bring back the 'Game Partition' layout (I liked that format: 40K/WFB/LOTR), return 'Eavy Metal to its rightful place as a How To Paint Like A Demi-God - you know the type, they pick a specific effect and devote two pages to how to achieve it, e.g. rust or Elven armour, bring back articles about people's armies, bring back actual armies for the batreps (I swear the reason it was so odd is because it was made up - one of the Vostroyan squads was photoshopped three times in the 'list', and the mortar squad appeared to be made up of... exactly... the same... mortar... three times over), and so on and so on. Letters page, as well! Up the page count to something worth £4! ARRRRRRRRRGH!

Right, I'll stop foaming at the mouth now.

Wintermute
30-06-2006, 18:51
The Gotrek and Felix thing was rubbish, pure and simple. "Buy our stupidly expensive 28mm models!!!1!"

Pedantic Mode On

The Grotrek and Felix models are not 28mm but 32mm - 34mm.

Pedantic Mode off

However, I agree with you.

Cherrystone
30-06-2006, 19:49
Got the new Cry Havoc today, the articles detailing an armies stength, weakness, tactics etc (mid-nor and kelts in this issue) is exactly what Wd should be doing (theres plenty of good text and enough pictures) not beasts of Chaos "army guide" that is currently doing dis-service to WhiteDwarf

The Judge
30-06-2006, 20:01
Photo-shopped copy and paste articles seem like a bit of a slap in the face... "heres the Vostroyan 2000pt army the studio painted... featuring about 1500pts worth of stuff no copied." Or even better, "Here's Owen rees' army, featuring and copy and pasted Valkyrie, and possibly more."

ExquisiteEvil
30-06-2006, 21:03
Pedantic Mode On

The Grotrek and Felix models are not 28mm but 32mm - 34mm.

Pedantic Mode off

However, I agree with you.

Indeed - not only are they stupidly expensive but they are also USELESS as they are out of scale with the rest of the warhammer range...

:wtf:

Nice one GW...

Jimbobjeff
30-06-2006, 21:47
Im not even going to waste my time complaining but I will say one thing....BURN IT! BURN IT NOW!

Mad Doc Grotsnik
30-06-2006, 21:51
It's only a waste of money if you buy them, or indeed White Dwarf. And if you consider it a waste of money, and *still* buy it, you only have your self to blame.

Me? I like the Gotrek and Felix models. Am quite tempted myself. You know, for ornamental purposes? Might be a bit steep, but I'm not going to get it any other way am I!

RampagingRavener
30-06-2006, 21:51
I didn't think it was that bad. Read it, enjoyed it, will re-read it again. But it's nowhere as good as it once was, and has a very, very long way to go if it's going to get back to that level. Still, the last few issues have seemed to be improving...

I gave it a 6.

Estragor
30-06-2006, 22:21
Not a very impressive issue, and not worth the 4. WD has got till 320 to improve or else I stop.

So bad points for this issue:

1- 25 pages less than WD 218.

2- Battle report craptastic. No clear army list with point values.
Rigged mission (oh look the governer just escapes on the last turn).
Dull army selection.
Lack of text
Hard to follow

3- Jervis random ramblings: this isue he tells us to buy models cause they are cool! Not for how effective they are in game or of course how much they cost.

4- Letters page/ editorial is now gone. Guess GW doesn't want us to know they only have about 3 poeple to write the whole mag now

5- As usual Grombidal tells us what cool stuff to buy this month.

6- Very poor Golden Daemon pictures (the photos not the entries)

7- Usless Wood Elf tactica

8- Essentially a 4 page add for Beastmen. 2 Pages, each with a little army list, small amount of text about each army and a bad picture of each army (as in you cant clearly see the regiments at all)

9- Lots of adverts, including one WD online (look at the cool stuff you boughts a magazine expecting to see, only to find we actually have them online)

However, Wd does have some good points:

1- Eldar heavy weapon kit/ Tau stealth suit kit break downs, including how to build them and painted pics of all the bitz in each box.

2- The Arming for Medusa: Black legion army. I well painted army on a 3 page spread. However, lacks any real indepth background or info about the army.

3- The store finder pages have been replaced with a 2 page spread, giving instructions on how to find GWs and Independant stockists.

All in all, a bunch of pictures, small amount of text and lots of adds. Oh and a *free* poster for medusa V.

Venkh
01-07-2006, 01:33
The standard bearer article was horrible. Was it really neccessary to prefix every occurence of the word Miniature with the word Citadel. Smacks of some weird edict from above to reinforce the citadel "brand" at every opportunity.

Chaos and Evil
01-07-2006, 02:28
I had a flick through.

They need to raise their game,

that is all. :(

Carnelian
01-07-2006, 11:44
The entire issue is balls except for that tau stealth suit. Definately gonna wait for reviews of 320 before buying it

The Judge
01-07-2006, 20:25
I read through it hellishly fast... and that's nevera good sign.

Christian Byrnes "distinctly not as good as Rees' Guard army" was the highlight for me.

Tooooon
02-07-2006, 00:33
Theres now 3 votes for 10? O.o Either somebody is simply doing it as a mick take, or 3 GW staff are now new members of Warseer :) Welcome!

Chaos and Evil
02-07-2006, 00:38
I believe that after the mass layings-off six months ago, the UK edition of White Dwarf now has 3 regular staff members. ;)

Gen.Steiner
02-07-2006, 00:52
The mass-firings and 're-organisation' of the Dwarf team has, I think, killed it.

Please prove me wrong, GW.

And while you're at it, bring back the Citadel Journal and Warhammer Monthly and Inferno!

Cherrystone
02-07-2006, 01:58
And while you're at it, bring back the Citadel Journal and Warhammer Monthly and Inferno!


If rule articles, short stories and comic strips were included in white dwarf that would be an instant improvement.

Gen.Steiner
02-07-2006, 04:07
Agreed.

Oh, on Gotrek and Felix - why in hell's name are they not 28mm!? It's insane! GW burns money on rubbish like that instead of sensible stuff, like new Epic or Dark Eldar or something... :rolleyes:

Brimstone
02-07-2006, 09:55
Please keep discussion focused on this edition of WD, there are plenty of GW bitching threads around if you want to go off topic.

Gen.Steiner
02-07-2006, 19:00
Urm.

I am on topic... There are some, what, eight pages of Gotrek and Felix advertising in WD319. Four would have been enough, but eight, eight pages on figures you can't even use in your WFB army!?

All the previous Black Library tie-ins have been scale-compatible: Kal Jerico, Gaunt's mob, Daemonifuge, Malus Darkblade and Spite, Commissar Not-Flashman - so why not Gotrek, Felix, et al? And why so many pages?

Admittedly, they're better than the BUY TEH GIANT issue, but what isn't.

On the plus side, Chris Byrne's Black Legion was ace, although more words would've been good. Um. That's basically it on the plus side.

I was disappointed with the tiny amount of LotR stuff - they seem to be slowly dropping it from WD, or at least not devoting as much space as they should.

With the 25 pages they dropped from the mag, they could have had another (proper) batrep, at least one other army showcase, a proper article on something - anything - and maybe even a few pages on one of the Specialist Games. Why didn't they?

Not enough staff, perhaps? The firing of staff members from the WD team does seem to have had an adverse effect on WD. I was rereading the original Tale of Four Gamers issues this morning, and the WD team then was 5-6 people, plus articles from readers (Mike Walker for example!) and other GW people.

White Dwarf's UK team also have to do web-stuff, which is a waste of time. They can't do either as well as they could if they devoted their time to one, not both. Either make WD Online awesome, or WD itself awesome - you can only have both if you employ more people, and as they don't want to do that, then let them concentrate on White Dwarf, and let Online die the death it richly deserves.

75hastings69
02-07-2006, 20:38
I said it months ago but here it is again just for those who missed it.....

.... I believe that WD are trying purposely to make their magazine worse, that way they can finally move out of print media. Just a few months after I made this statement GW announced their ONLINE WD, I am telling you it is just a matter of time. All they want is for people to think "I dont think i'll bother buying WD this month as last months was absolute shat" then no-one will miss it when has gone completely as they would have stopped buying it months before.

Anyway I gave this issue a 2 - but looking back should have been 1 as both Dok Butcha and letters have dissappeared, only to be replaced by another 8 page spread on some new minis.

I strongly agree with the above poster who said to bring back the WFB Annual/Chronicles and put some rules etc back in WD.

Gen.Steiner
02-07-2006, 20:58
I hope and pray that you're wrong. What are we supposed to read in bed, on the train, or in the bath if WD goes digital?

Printouts get expensive, and they'll probably try and make us pay for a fully-online WD. Argh.

Yes, Warhammer Chronicles, Old Wierd's Incunabulum and Index [Whatever] as well as Chapter Approved all need to return.

dr vompire
02-07-2006, 21:20
Gave it a 2. Actually got to the end of the mag in half an hour and had to double back in case i'd missed something, now that's what i call content...

on another note has anyone else noticed that the new Gotrek and Felix book appears to be called Giantslayer and is written by william king (check the spine of the picture), doesn't that kinda sum up the reprinting old stuff problem. was going to write in and try to claim some sort of 'spot the deliberate mistake' prize, but as there isn't a letters page anymore...

PS that is a good thing

Gen.Steiner
02-07-2006, 22:19
The new G&F book is called Orcslayer and is not written by Bill King. Might well be a printing/layout error.

I liked the letters page, even when it was slavish sycophancy!

dr vompire
02-07-2006, 22:32
nah that's just the front cover they've slapped onto old copies of giant slayer

Finn Sourscowl
03-07-2006, 10:12
I haven't actually read the bat rep, but going from what people have said here, the following statement from WD Online 17 sounds extremely worrying:

Owen: This month is all about this summer’s massive global campaign, The Fall of Medusa V. One of my favourite articles this month must be the narrative battle report featuring the daring rescue of Planetary Governor Soloman from the clutches of Grulgor, beloved of Nurgle, who is intent on sacrificing him to the Chaos Gods in return for a mighty gift. For me it really harks back to the seminal Armageddon (WD248) and Eye of Terror (WD282) battle reports of old. In fact, I believe this is the best yet and it is even played on the mouth watering terrain featured in Cities of Death Expansion.

If this is the editors idea of what constitutes the "best yet" battle report I don't hold out much hope of things improving.

Comments?

Morph
03-07-2006, 10:19
If this is the editors idea of what constitutes the "best yet" battle report I don't hold out much hope of things improving.

Comments?

Well he's hardly likely to say 'This months battle report was pretty lame, I wouldn't bother reading it.' He's paid to tell you everything they do is the bestest ever. He probably knows it's rubbish.

Jellicoe
03-07-2006, 11:29
Er no Owen

It doesnt come close to the muti game double issue battle report WD ran for the eye of terror which culminated in the cathedral

That report you see had maps, fluff, cool rules for other stuff to intervene, an amazing piece of scenery and interesting army lists. It was also written up properly on a turn by turn basis, i.e. you could actually understand it

Or closer to home - 2 more battle reports I have read several times, both of which featured a certain O Rees. The last 4 way carnage match up over a missile silo and the Dark angel vs necron monolith/Landraider clash. The latter even had some Eisenhorn fluff for a whole page to boot

or WFB the inaugral Lizardman fight with Skaven using an interesting scenario and a near death experience for a 2nd generation wizard

Jellicoe
03-07-2006, 11:35
On a separate note I asked one of the chaps at my local store why WD was so rubbish at the moment and what the hell was going on.

Poor chap looked rather sheepish and said that pretty well everyone was saying the same thing, so much so that apparently even head office had taken notice (dont hold breath chaps)

When asked what the matter was with it gave the obvious reply of 'well some actual content would be nice, and maybe some articles too' the shirt's response was full agreement

Apparently they are now following a 3 month rolling cycle tied to releases
1st month - sneak peak
2nd month - launch
3rd month follow up articles

take this as you will but to my mind it still actually needs articles and if it is just a catalogue then I have no need to buy it. Another point I made to the poor chap who was probably wishing I would sod off by that point:D

ThousandPlateaus
03-07-2006, 13:27
I haven't actually read the bat rep, but going from what people have said here, the following statement from WD Online 17 sounds extremely worrying:

Owen: This month is all about this summer’s massive global campaign, The Fall of Medusa V. One of my favourite articles this month must be the narrative battle report featuring the daring rescue of Planetary Governor Soloman from the clutches of Grulgor, beloved of Nurgle, who is intent on sacrificing him to the Chaos Gods in return for a mighty gift. For me it really harks back to the seminal Armageddon (WD248) and Eye of Terror (WD282) battle reports of old. In fact, I believe this is the best yet and it is even played on the mouth watering terrain featured in Cities of Death Expansion.

If this is the editors idea of what constitutes the "best yet" battle report I don't hold out much hope of things improving.

Comments?

Yeah, I received this the other day, and was pretty annoyed. Even simply because the battle report is referred to as being 'narrative', and well, I'm b*ggered if I can find the narrative anywhere... Using a few miniatures which aren't part of the main forces isn't a narrative! Where was the fluff? It could all have been quite interesting if they'd put a tiny little bit of effort in - but that's the case in point, really.

Gen.Steiner
03-07-2006, 13:46
I liked the converted Governor model - but I had to puzzle out what they'd used for him. Missed opportunity, perhaps. No narrative is right, and if Owen Rees really thinks that that was the best BatRep EVAR!!!1! then he needs his head feeling.

dr vompire
03-07-2006, 15:14
when i started reading it, what with the build up fluff-lite and the slightly unorthodox approach to what is usually a pitched battle with a few giants thrown in for the hell of it i thought; this is great, back to the old days, finally WD is on the right path. When i tried to read the actual report and found myself looking at incomprhensible pictures of a plastic wall and a caption, trying to make sense of what was happening i realised i was wrong and it was much of the same. Does anyone else find the side boxes with 'coolest thing this turn' really annoying, cos i have to skim read a lot for work i always read boxes first, thus ruining the suprise when a terminator kills a daemon prince (oooh how coool...), then that screws up the time frame even more etc etc rant rant rant...

could have been the best battle rep ever, if it hadn't been in WD

Calindor
04-07-2006, 08:25
Overall a nice month but two things stick outs that make it a bad WD. The main thing is the new kind of battlereports. I don´t know why but they have messed that up really well. They are terribly and show nothing. They can rather skip them then this! Awful.

The other thing is that it´s just to many pictures and to little text. Most of us that buy the magazine can actually read even if GW thinks otherwise. I do hopåe Owen read some of this thread and make some change, specially about the battlereports that was the best part before. now its´the worse and after 7 year of buying WD even I´m starting to think to skip it.

plantagenet
04-07-2006, 09:57
I was hugely disappointed by this issue. I cant understand why the thing is continually shrinking we are down to 103 pages....

As other have said I finished reading through this issue in about 30 minutes and have not felt any desire to return to it. I think it is really sad that this is the direction that GW are choosing to take the magazine in. The role I see for white Dwarf is to act as a catalyst for my enthusiasm for the hobby. If any of you are like me then you find there is many things that compete for my attention and what I choose to do in my limited free time is really dependent on how I feel. White Dwarf often used to spur me into to action to continue painting my army or return from my forays into historical gaming back to there rich fantasy or futuristic worlds.

However the last 4 issues of White seem to be doing anything but that. The latest issue for me even surpassing the awful Giant issue for utter pointlessness. I started reading White Dwarf about 19 years ago when I was 10. The magazine appealed to me then I cant understand why they think the level of intelligence of the latest generation of kids is less then 19 years ago. I really hope they remember that webought there magazine to read not to stare at pictures.

Sureshot05
04-07-2006, 16:08
Freebies
A Poster for the Medusa V Campaign

Lets break this down shall we. Poster = unnessary, but amusing. Would rather have had extra content



Editorial
The White Dwarf is here still, telling us that the campaign has arrived, saying what we already know about it, and then tellinh us that the new Gotrek and Felix limited set thing is out and to go and buy it. So nothing changed here from last issue.
Letters Page
None existant. So they remove the WD forums and tell us to send them letters, them get rid of the letters page. Great.


In all truth, I wonder whether they have had a good letter recently.


Page Count
104
Pages of Adverts
34


Absolutely shameful.



Warhammer Fantasy Content
1) Picture and small amount of info for upcoming Warhammer release "Battle for Skull Pass" including box set info (FB Equivilant to Mines of Moria/Battle for Macragge)

Advert, but fair enough for those who do not have the web, plus a few nicer pics than previously seen



2) General Info on Gortex, Felix and friends, with a painting guide for Gortex and Felix, and info on Grey Seer Thanquol.


A lot of cut and paste from old stuff, but the little extra on the new characters seemed a little light. Still, I felt the article was a step in the right direction



3) Basic tatics Info on Beasts of Chaos, 2 Army lists, and 2 pages with a small amount of tatics on Wood Elves.
4) Four Pages of Heavy Metal Painted Wood Elves

Two good and enjoyable articles, but over so soon!



Warhammer 40k Content
1) Two Pages on General Medusa V info, as well as info on how to sign up and such.
2) Battle Report Medusa V - Vostroyan + Ultramarines vs Death Guards + Black Legion. Sadly, No Map for whats happening, and lots of pictures replacing text.

Now I feel this is harsh. It was a better report than we have had for the last few months. They just seem to have rushed it. Each turn should be spelt out, there should be maps, but otherwise the narrative style was enjoyable to read and better than "Mark moves his giant"



3) Four Pages Modelling Workshop for Eldar Heavy Weapon's with stats for the different options of weapons as well as creating scenic bases
4) Four Pages Modelling Workshop for Tau Stealth Teams with their stats and point costs included.

Interesting articles, could have just done with a few more words, but they were okay.



5) Black Legion Army list for Medusa V in general, with some tips, what paints to use for colour scheme, etc...

Better much better, my 2nd fav article in the mag.



Lord of the Rings Content
1) Four Pages of information for playing with Wood Elves, including 3 Army Lists on 3 of the pages.
2) Four Pages of Modelling Workshop on creating Lair of the Queen Spider, with info on materials to make it, how to make different bits of the scenery, shaping the spiders, etc..

My response has to be that these were two interesting articles, but two short articles?



3) One or two adverts for Two Towers and Legions of Middle Earth release

True

Summary
A small step in the right direction, but all too small and starting to look all too late.

Jedi152
04-07-2006, 16:34
I've been forgoing buying my Fortean Times lately, as i thought it was too expensive - now i'll re-divert the £4 i used to spend on WD to that.

I'll buy the one with the new WFB in, apart from that i won't bother until the quality improves.

34 pages out of 104 as adverts is truly awful. Thats 32.7% of the magazine, well over a third.

Jonathan =I=
04-07-2006, 23:31
So Im reading the first turn of the cityfight battle report in this months white dwarf (first mistake) and I notice two things.

1. There are already plaguebearers deployed on the table which have not been summoned on.
2. The same turn they are shot at by mortar which kill two of them resulting in an instability test. The take the instability test on the remaining 5 models only to have the entire squad die! (because obviously they rolled 13 on two dice)

This in turn leads me to believe that

A. The commander and Games Developer Andy Hoare has no idea how to play 40k

B. They make the battle reports up as they go along.

C. Both of the above.

Gen.Steiner
05-07-2006, 00:15
34 pages out of 104 as adverts is truly awful. Thats 32.7% of the magazine, well over a third.

Actually, it's just under a third, which is 33.33333...%

Still shameful though.

A GOOD THING ABOUT WHITE DWARF:

The spine has had the month and year on it for the past three or four issues, for the first time I think! Certainly none of my older Dwarfs (stretching back to number 93, continuous from number 200) have the month and year on them, and I'd always thought that was a failing.

So, I give it a 3. The Black Legion article was good, but could be better, the spine has the date on it, and overall the Dwarf deserved two marks for its ****-poor photocles rather than articles. The Black Legion bumped it up one, you see...

EDIT:

Jonathan =I=, I suspect you've fallen foul of the crap layout of the BatRep. It's not "first turn", it's "opening turns". It's highly likely those plaguebearers were summoned in turn two. Failing that, their presence on the table was part of the scenario, but which was not explained by the BatRep (thanks again to the godawful layout). After all, Last Stand at Glazer's Creek (WD222) used its own scenario-specific rules, but that didn't mean that Adrian Wood and Paul Sawyer had no idea how to play 40K...

Jonathan =I=
05-07-2006, 01:23
I did see that opening turn bit but seeing as nowhere does it mention that they were summoned (just them being shot at) I was led to believe that they were already there.

My second point however still stands.

Gen.Steiner
05-07-2006, 01:36
Normally I'd quibble over the "they make the batreps up" comment, but the WD319 one really does seem like that.

It's the 'army lists' wot do it.

Charax
05-07-2006, 17:29
Well...it's an improvement, I'll give it that.

No more damned stupid size 16 text to cover up for pathetically small articles - now you can actually see how pathetically small they are.

New Releases:
The usual oversized pictures and nonsense. I remember back when the new releases section had a small amount of background for each release, and you didn't need multiple angles and extreme closeups for models to look good.

11 pages of new releases. Gotrek & felix tally: 2

News:
Nice look at what's in the new WFB box. Can't see why they brought the whippy sticks back, I thought they left them out of the 40K box for a reason. Good to see the different sets available - they should have released the "pocket-sized" BoM rulebook ages ago. Rest of the news section is a write off - and if the Gotrek & felix figures are 30mm and not for gaming, surely they don't come under "Warhammer", but "Also released this month"?

Articles: (I use the term in it's loosest sense)
2-page "introduction" to the MedV campaign with a full-page "cover" - no new information here, I could swear we had this last month, but as I can't get through two pages of 318 without tossing it aside in boredom, I can't check.

The much-commented-on Battle Report:
Well, the armies for a start are interesting - Hoare integrates Chosen Numbers in nicely, although personally I find HUGE squads to be better value for points. I don't approve of GW's defiler fetishism.

Dear Mr Ward, Considering that you're a games designer, and this is allegedly a narrative game, and that you're fighting alongside Death Guard forces, WHAT IN HELL POSSESSED YOU TO TAKE TZEENTCHIAN DAEMONS? Yes, I know you play 1Ksons, and I know that Flamers and psychic domination are cool, but you *are* allied with Nurgloid forces, if there was an iota of narrative here it would have taken the form of the Death Guard defiler shelling your army into the dirt

I do quite like how the army pictures are laid out by force org, but I also remember the days when it wasn't unusual to see a page and a half of the reasons for and against making the decisions chosen, not two columns of "Plague marines should be able to stand up to massed fire due to their high toughness" and other such obvious comments.

Initial deployment was interesting - 3,000 points of Imperials Vs 3,000 points of chaos, the Imperials having four strategems, the Chaos forces having a single, one-shot strategem, and to top that off the 1,000 points of DG are facing twice their number of guardsmen. With tanks. And a Power Generator. And an Ammo Store. What's that, you say? Chaos lost? what a bloody surprise.

Initial Turns:
The Death Guard strategem fizzles, so now it's 1,000 points of Death Guard facing 2,000 points of Vostroyans AND four strategems. Is this narrative? No, it's fixed.

One lascannon shot, one defiler dead. see where fetishism gets you? You'll be wishing you spent the points on more Plaguers now, I bet

Mid Turns:
Another Defiler down. You wouldn't think they had the option of Indirect Fire for a reason...
...And the Daemon Prince goes down, too, although he managed to take out a librarian. whoop-de-do

The Final Turns:
Is it just me, or are these pages almost entirely made up of excessive borders? At least the Death Guard finished off the Terminators.

Debrief:
Same pointless comments as before, but now with added Hindsight flavour! and no, Matt, you didn't need flamers, you needed a clue. "What's that? Lascannon-heavy guardsmen? with rerolls to hit? why, I reckon that's a job for ONLY VEHICLE IN THE ARMY! they'll never think to shoot that, I'll even stick him out here in the open to taunt them!" - buy Indirect fire next time, then use it, if you absolutely MUST take a defiler.

Batreps without maps suck ass.

Standard Bearer:
Oooh, I love complaining about this bit. So I'll begin.
"The most important thing about our hobby is Citadel Miniatures

Jervis, you disgust me.

"and the next time you find yourself wanting a model" BUY IT. BUY IT AND GIVE US YOUR LOVELY MONEYS....
I can't help feeling Stillman would have a fit if he saw what Jervis was writing these days.

Next, 10 pages of Gotrek & Felix models & stuff. G&F tally: 12 and a bit

4 pages of wood elf tactics and then a page of Gondorian ads

ad+ 4 pages on Beastmen, and 2 pages on the rivalry between the Wood Elves and the Beastmen. I smell battle report...

...Nope, another ad. And another. and 4 pages of painting guides for wood elves. Damn, that was almost a theme they had there.

Lair of the Spider Queen:
I was looking forward to this. I remembered the excellent Shelob's lair article and thought "Cool, another feature on how to make a really different gaming board".
Instead we have stock GW hilly board #3 with some webbed up trees and a cave entrance. and then a page on making and painting trees, and posing spiders.

Modelling Workshop:
You're bloody kidding me
How to put together plastic models. Shouldn't this crap be on the packaging? if people want the model, they'll buy the model, the model will have packaging. If they have the packaging, they will therefore have the construction diagram. If people *don't* want the model, then why in the name of all that is sacred do they need to know how to put the models together?

Basing tips for the grav platform are...ok. Interchangeable weapons are useful for new players. Weapon stats are largely superfluous and will probably be replaced in a few months anyway.

Cloaked Stealthsuit is nice. Could this not have been featured when White Dwarf was going through it's Taugasm phase?

Obligatory 5-page Games Day guidelines. Large model isn't "Back by popular demand", it's "Back because you messed the hell up by removing it in the first place"

blah blah, army showcase, blah.

Frontline UK:
Like the new format a lot, glad they got rid of the multi-page sprawl of stores. One thing about the new Dwarf against which I have no complaint.

Ordering Direct:
It's good that you don't have to wait to get components anymore. components are still stupidly-priced though (a 4 sword?) - pity they don't seem to want to give the body codes for Chaos, though. No code for the Nurgle dp's gut, or the individual possessed, or the chaos lords - so why are the Eldar the exception?

Ad. G&F tally: 13 and a bit.
Ad again
...another one
...and a LotR-dominated Next Issue section. IX: Rangers will be the only interesting thing.

I've said it before, 320 will be my last issue, it looks like I won't regret that decision.

boogle
05-07-2006, 23:48
To be honest it was worse than the Giant issue, and possibly one of the worst i've ever read, the only good thing was the fact the game was a Narrative rather than a 'set em up' game

cailus
06-07-2006, 00:30
Another atrocious issue! However the Aussie 319 at least didn't have a page reduction like the UK one did.

Jervis Johnson has really peeved me off with his stupid sales plug. His comments that it's all about the miniatures and not the gaming was insulting, to say the least. It is almost like he was saying: "Hey kids, buy the Giant, BUY THE GIANT, BUY THE GIANT!"

It is okay to just collect models. But most people collect the ridiculously overpriced miniatures to play the game. I know that I certainly would not buy them if I didn't play 40K or Mordheim. And telling us that the entire basis of our hobby is to buy, buy, buy is really irritating.

White space...copious amounts of white space everywhere And the font size is still too large. And content is still rubbish for the most part. The Warhammer Fantasy articles reaked of yet more "Hey kids, buy, BUY, BUY!" Again no real content and just lots of pictures of Ogres etc. And they had a Giant article. I wouldn't have minded it but I hate this model with a passion.

One of the Worst Battle Reports ever!

Does anyone know what even happened in it? I know that in the end the good guys win, but how is beyond me. They literally condense two turns into 2 or 3 paragraphs. And I can't believe how badly they are written:

"Bob killed 2 Plague Marines, and then another 2 and then 3. The Plague Bearers died."

This is rubbish.

Becuase of the lack of maps, the lack of real descriptions and the the lack of even a knowledge of the army lists meant I had no idea what was going on for the most part.

HINT TO THE ****** AT GW: PICTORIAL BATTLE REPORTS DON'T WORK WHEN YOU'RE FIGHTING ON A HUGE CITY FIGHT TABLE THAT OBSCURES EVERYTHING!

And I am sick of the "how to assemble" plastic miniatures articles (there was two of them - Stealth suits and Eldar Weapon Platform)" I doubt that someone that cannot understand the instructions on the packaging will understand them in the White Dwarf.

The "How to use "Tau stealth suits" article was a load of rubbish. As mentioned it merely replicated the rules out of the codex. I s'pose a proper tactics articles would be beyond the capabilities of Mr Rees and his merry bunch of intellectually disabled lapdogs.

The two armies featured (weathered Tau and Death Corps of Krieg) were really cool as was the camouflaged Tau Stealthsuit.

And I do feel sorry for the LoTR people. GW shafts them royally in terms of White Dwarf coverage.

Time to start writing the third letter of complaint.

Harky
06-07-2006, 11:56
You know what really gets me, with all the criticism directed their way it seems they have no shame in saying how GREAT they are on every other page. And always with exclamation marks. Gawd!

EDIT: I kind of like the whole how to assemble minis, not because of the instructions but because of the pictures of bitz in the box.

Gen.Steiner
06-07-2006, 13:51
Thing is that the list of bits could just as easily be, you know, put on the box... or in the box... it doesn't belong in WD IMHO.

Owen Rees' been shafted, I think. He's had his staff reduced from 6-7 to 3, and is expected to do webwork and the printwork as well. Worse, he's presiding over the on-high declaration that WD is to become a glorified catalogue.

Rees, I'm sorry for you, but at some point you'll have to accept that WD is not 'great' and things are not at their "best evar!!!!1!"

GW really doesn't like its veterans.

Citadel Journal - RIP. Much missed.
Firepower, Incoming, et al - RIP.
Inferno!, Warhammer Monthly - RIP.
Fanatic! - RIP. Mich missed.

And now we have to add White Dwarf to the list of the fallen? GW High Command are clearly taking their tactics from the Book of Haig!

Wintermute
06-07-2006, 18:47
Owen Rees' been shafted, I think. He's had his staff reduced from 6-7 to 3, and is expected to do webwork and the printwork as well. Worse, he's presiding over the on-high declaration that WD is to become a glorified catalogue.

Rees, I'm sorry for you, but at some point you'll have to accept that WD is not 'great' and things are not at their "best evar!!!!1!"


I think a little bit of clarification is in order. Owen Rees doesn't edit WD, he's the UK Editor. You will find the majority of WD is edited by Guy Haley and produced by Games Dev.

In fact if you look at the credits on the inside front cover of WD 319, you will see this is in fact the case.

Gen.Steiner
06-07-2006, 22:04
Yes, I know that.

Thing is - UK WD is what I'm on about, and that's what Mr. Rees edits. I'm fully aware of the fact that Haley is more responsible for the general content, which is why I'm saying Rees has been shafted... :rolleyes:

Keravin
06-07-2006, 22:32
I've said this before, but having now looked at the US WD with its clear definition of what material central WD has handed them then it's clear that the problem lies at the centre. True the UK material is lacklustre compared to the US but without someone doing something major to shake up the central WD with their idiotic battle reports and their pointless this is an army articles which appeal to no one then the rest of the mag is left in the mire.

crashbang
07-07-2006, 22:59
while you may think im writing this nicely, the obscene comments and rudeness are in fact written in black font so that no innocent child can read it.

ive always supported WD. well most of the time. there have been bad ones, like the imfamous 'giant-athon'

but this was quite horrific. for veterans, there was all of two things of interest, kindof.
1)that nice chamelion stealth suit
2) the gotrek and felix fluff....maybe

and the battle report was taking the *insert ayny kind of excrement here*.
why cant they put in more detail?! it used to be no problem, but now they appear to have some kind of phobia of writing more then 3 pages of text, instead writing the kindof amount of writing you see in a comic.

in the future, theyll look back at this issue and shudder. i hope....

Steel_Legion
07-07-2006, 23:24
i havent read it yet, sounds crap now.. might skim over it tonight and have a laugh at how bad it apparently is

Gen.Steiner
08-07-2006, 00:28
Speaking as a veteran, I found the Gotrek and Felix re-hash boring. I was much more interested in Chris Byrne's Black Legion... I'm a big fan of Byrne's Chaos stuff, I liked his Iron Warriors series. The stealth suit was nice, but ... well ... a single interesting model, a nice army, and the month/year of publication on the spine really ain't worth 4.

Dr Death
09-07-2006, 12:18
What the earth is going on with WD? This issue really was the pits, really really the pits. 20 pages of bog all but pictures untill you even get to a section with more than a single sentance strung together constituting it- its rediculous! Battle reports are an insult to that name and everything is so busy, disorganised and frantic that you get a headache just looking at the pages. I refuse to accept showing us loads of pictures of the plastic bitz of a new kit a modelling guide, a modelling guide to me is the Jes Goodwin one when the Space Wolf accessory sprue came out- how to use those bitz to create an effect on a miniature, not just how to put them together.

The Gotrek and Felix "money shot" pagefiller was poor, especially considering they took 10 pages to tell us things we already knew about five models that are rediculously overpriced. I do like seeing rules in WD but they shouldnt take up a whole page in an already lacklustre and wannabe crowded mag.

I wont comment on the articles because there werent any! Adverts with allusions to granduer- maybe, articles- no.

Dr Death

Gen.Steiner
09-07-2006, 14:12
I've been re-reading the WDs from 200 onwards and they're so much better it's just not funny. Pages and pages of text, modelling guides that are (how to make Khorne Bezerkers for example), army showcases that include a couple of pages of "I chose X because of Y and I use Z tactic", battle reports with maps and turn-by-turn analysis...

In comparison, WD319's photocles are just... rubbish. Utter rubbish.

Inquis. Jaeger
10-07-2006, 13:51
Goddam. Give us some bloody substance and content, not this...mess of a magazine - free junk mail is better produced. Advertise on billboards and TV if you must, don't turn your flagship trade magazine into an advert for the sake of it.

Gen.Steiner
10-07-2006, 13:52
I wonder why the White Dwarf forums got closed... :p

Serpent
10-07-2006, 18:36
I stood and leafed through issue 311 this afternoon at a store, and wondered how it had gotten so downhill in only eight months. Then I skimmed through an issue I had at home (280-something) and saw a lot more background and stuff I really liked.

Sigh. :(

Serpent

Gen.Steiner
10-07-2006, 21:00
WD 296 (which I have in front of me) contains an army list (Armoured Company), background for list, Chris Byrne's Iron Warriors, Paul Sawyer doing more Vradchuck stuff, Storm of Chaos batrep (including stuff on Warmaster!), Jeff Leong's Warhammer tactics, background on the Imperial School of Engineering for WFB, and more.

What happened!?

Fat Bloke left, that's what. :(

Gorgrim
11-07-2006, 02:52
What people are forgetting here is that magazines rarely make their production cost back from sales alone. The main source of profit comes from advertising within the magazine. Pick up any chick magazine and you have to flip through at least ten pages of adverts to get to the contents or editorial. They too have a general 25 - 33% ratio of ads.

WD has no external advertising, apart from the independent stockist list, since Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson sold the company and the french lawyers who bought it saw more money in miniatures than games. Therefore WD is run at a loss to GW. Why would a company run a magazine that loses them money? Because, GW has the perfect media to push their product without using other magazines for advertising, thus saving themselves a huge amount of money.

Granted the content of WD has gone down hill from the glory days (which changes depending on who you ask), which is a direct result of the personel changes within the company. If you wonder about the drastic changes within the company just check out their stock price change over the last few months.

http://www.advfn.com/quote_Games-Workshop_LSE_GAW.html

As you can see, not a good sign for GW. While slightly off topic, it does indicate why the poor quality of articles in WD. They need to boost sales and what better way than to show us how great the miniatures are.

Obviously miniatures make more money than rulebooks, because miniatures cost less to design and produce. Rules require extensive developing and playtesting otherwise you get people on forums moaning about how the rules are broken. Hence the drop of Specialist Games products, as they weren't making as much money as the three big products. Of course, some were great games, but after buying a team/gang/fleet was there any purpose to buy more miniatures?

I do agree that the quality of the articles needs to be addressed and GW definitely need to utilise Jervis in a more suitable role.

And for what its worth I rate the issue 6 and have renewed my subscription.

Gen.Steiner
11-07-2006, 03:15
...after buying a team/gang/fleet was there any purpose to buy more miniatures?

Yes. I have a Chaos and Imperial fleet that I am slowly expanding, and for Epic I'm collecting a Space Marine Chapter, a Titan Legion, an Imperial Guard division, and an Ork Waaagh. For Mordheim I'm getting one of every gang, ditto Necromunda. Blood Bowl isn't my cup of tea, but then again, I have been tempted before...

Gorgrim
11-07-2006, 05:52
Yes. I have a Chaos and Imperial fleet that I am slowly expanding, and for Epic I'm collecting a Space Marine Chapter, a Titan Legion, an Imperial Guard division, and an Ork Waaagh. For Mordheim I'm getting one of every gang, ditto Necromunda. Blood Bowl isn't my cup of tea, but then again, I have been tempted before...

And your purpose is? You like the models and want to paint them up, just like Jervis mentions? You want to have a variety of armies/gangs/teams to play with?

No offense, but I seriously doubt you will own one of every gang for both Necromunda and Mordheim, but if you do, then more power to you.

But the GW directors see it in another way.

Why invest money in a game where a player only has to buy one box set of miniatures?

Unfortunately, the few enthusiasts who buy a significant amount of miniatures from a selected range, like yourself, aren't significant enough to warrant further support from GW.

Gen.Steiner
11-07-2006, 06:03
And your purpose is? You like the models and want to paint them up, just like Jervis mentions? You want to have a variety of armies/gangs/teams to play with?

A mix of having a variety and being able to introduce other people to the games at the drop of a hat - "here, pick a gang/fleet/army!"


No offense, but I seriously doubt you will own one of every gang for both Necromunda and Mordheim, but if you do, then more power to you.

Hehe, I reckon it's still less figures than one Guard army... :p


But the GW directors see it in another way.

Why invest money in a game where a player only has to buy one box set of miniatures?

Unfortunately, the few enthusiasts who buy a significant amount of miniatures from a selected range, like yourself, aren't significant enough to warrant further support from GW.

Sadly all too true. Damn you, bean-counters, damn you!

ThousandPlateaus
11-07-2006, 11:05
Gorgrim, whilst you may be on the right train of thought, what you (along with the WD editorial team) are failing to recognise is something I mentioned at the beginning of this thread: that well researched and executed articles, rules developments, fluff, 'how to's act as far better, wider ranging adverts than 10 pages of Gotrek and Felix (devoid of content) or a whole issue devoted to the Giant (also devoid of content). Such issues and articles just annoy the very demographics you're trying to sell to.

Other magazines have to obtain external advertising, yes, but GW doesn't have to - all of the products they're advertising are their own, they can afford to be more creative and more nuanced with their advertising techniques, something they've been masters of in the past. In their panic, they've coarsened their message to a blunt, 'You must all buy this now!' thereby removing the (albeit false) sense of independence that consumers need to enjoy.

cailus
11-07-2006, 12:02
My latest letter of complaint:


Dear Sir/Madam,

I have been an avid reader of White Dwarf since roughly issue 250.

I am writing to you to complain about the standard of the White Dwarf magazine. I have written to you already on the 5th of April, 2006 and the 6th of June, 2006. I feel compelled to write because I feel that the magazine has not improved in quality since I wrote the last letter. Though I live in Australia, I am writing to this address because there is no longer an Australian email contact.

The latest issue of White Dwarf, 319 shows no improvement from the previous several issues.

The battle report between Chaos and the Imperium was poorly laid out and very hard to follow. The main problems are a lack of map, poorly written summaries of turns as oppossed to turn by turn analysis. The force disposition chart did not show what each of the forces were equipped with. Furthermore the entire thing was written extremely poorly and did not convey the intensity and excitement such a game would bring.

The battle report between Beastmen and Skaven was slightly better but again rather poorly written, too brief and the lack of map made it extremely difficult to follow especially as similar looking Skaven units all look the same in a a mid-size photo of the battlefield.

I am highly irritated at the idiotic "Warpstone Meter" and "Battle Tracker." They are jeuvenile and don't actually mean anything.

Unfortunately the standard of battle reports has been declining since issue 300. For some excellent battle reports, you might want to look at issues 260-282. They were highly detailed and well written.

The Standard Bearer article written by Jervis Johnson has gone from being totally pointless in previous issues to downright insulting. It comes across as a pathetic marketing pitch and was an insult to people who enjoy the game. I would not purchase a single Games Workshop product if it were not from the Games. I do not need Jervis Johnson ramming mindless marketing drivel down my throat.

The tactical articles about the Beasts Of Chaos was much like previous ones on Skaven and Tomb Kings. It was simplistic and boring and did not reveal anything about the more subtle aspects of using this army.

The Modelling Workshops on the Eldar Heavy Platform and Tau Stealth Teams were also generally pointless. If a person cannot follow the instructions on the box, then it is unlikely that they will understand the instructions in your magazine. The Using Stealth Teams articles was also a lame reproduction of the rules. What is the point of this?

The only interesting articles in issue 319 were the Army showcases (Tau and Death Korps)and the Cloaked Stealthsuit. There were some alright articles in the form of "Eavy Metal Wood Elves (not enough explanation into techniques) and the Heart Eater Tribe Australian Army Showcase.

In general, I think there is not enough written content in the White Dwarf. The older issues had large articles regarding fluff/background, new interesting rules and interesting and engrossing battle reports. The new White Dwarf is a pale shadow of its former self.

Yours sincerely,

Gorgrim
12-07-2006, 03:00
Such issues and articles just annoy the very demographics you're trying to sell to.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong about the target demographic of WD. We would like to think that it is a magazine for experienced gamers, which is filled with a plethora of tactic guides, scenarios and optional rules, but in reality it is designed for new players.

New players are where the money is in the hobby. And new players tend to be younger teenagers, hence the flashy 'ad' like articles. Every new release is better than everything else.

Having said that, I agree with most on here about WD's lack of content, but I feel that writing letters isn't going to help much. From my MBA studies it is all about money. The CEO won't care that a bunch of veterans are going to cancell their WD subscription, because to him we only buy a few miniatures a year because we have established armies and have other expenses like mortgages and bills to pay. Teenagers on the other hand have more disposable income and can buy more miniatures.

This is not my view, as I own five 40K armies and my friend owns seven, but that won't change anything.

I think a better option would be to submit articles to indicate what you would like WD to contain and if a large supply of new ideas is generated then GW won't have to pay people to do it.

cailus
12-07-2006, 03:44
aND new players tend to be younger teenagers, hence the flashy 'ad' like articles. Every new release is better than everything else.

I actually think they are trying to also get away from what is traditionally known as "nerds." In the past GW products appealed to nerds, geeks and dorks. As these people are generally more intelligent than your average football playing jock then WD could have more intelligent articles because they would appeal to both seasoned veterans and young nerds.

But now GW wants to seel to trendy metro jock teenagers. This means dumbing down the content of WD and including more pictures. Bascially GW wants to exapnd its audience to include people that never would have got into GW stuff because of its image.

Sorry about my use of these terms but I can't be bothered writing in PC language right now.

Gen.Steiner
12-07-2006, 13:31
Sadly, I reckon Cailus has the right of it, as does Gorgrim.

Regardless - they won't be getting my money for WD any more. :mad:

crashbang
12-07-2006, 16:23
but they cant rely on that. wheather the people who make white dwarf like it or not, everyone would prefer something interesting to read to the crap WD has. After all, noone ever bought harry potter books, or any other good book, because of the pictures

Gen.Steiner
12-07-2006, 22:49
Tintin? Comic books with no words? Comic books from other countries where you can't understand what the characters're saying...?

A picture is worth a thousand words - but not if it's a thousand pictures of that bloody giant!

Keravin
13-07-2006, 09:47
I have no problems with the modelling workshops and bits focus for the new products. At least that is a USEFUL advert as opposed to some of the others.

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 10:06
I don't find it useful in the slightest to be honest. I'd much rather an actual article! Any of the Index... series or Olde Weird's Incunabulum, for example.

Keravin
13-07-2006, 12:15
I convert a lot and seeing the sprues to properly see what I might use is useful. More useful than showing me the same figure painted up 3 different ways.

Tooooon
13-07-2006, 12:19
Keravin, you do know on the back of every box there used to be a mini guide telling you how to put everything together, which is almost exactly the same as the WD's "Oh so helpful" guides, right?

~Dave

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 12:33
There still is a little mini-guide on the back of most of the boxes, isn't there?

Keravin
13-07-2006, 12:41
I'm not talking about how to assemble the bloody things I'm talking about the spare bits. For example the Scout Snipers come with bits that are eminently useful for Drop troop conversions. You couldn't tell that from the awful pic on their box though.

The box guides do not include a look at EVERY piece on the sprue in isolation.

Tooooon
13-07-2006, 12:58
So you think 4-6pages (2 of which are pictures) of a magazine which is less than 70 pages (that are classed as not adverts) covering 3 entire different games and costs £4.00 is a good thing?

Im sorry, could you please explain a bit more? :)

Keravin
13-07-2006, 13:05
Did I say that?

WD is crap these days, but I don't think those pages are ones that are a problem. The lackluste battle reports are. The army articles that say nothing are.

I've been buying WD since WD 75 so this isn't as bad for me as the pre Gorkamorka days when all we got was Epic reprints.

Tooooon
13-07-2006, 13:11
Id prefer 4-6 pages of articles, or an actual letters page brought back, or tale of 4 gamers in their, or conversion clinic brought back in their, etc... thats all. I think its pretty useless overall, but I wouldnt mind it staying as long as they took away the oversized pictures and easily narrowed it down to 2-3 pages.

Keravin
13-07-2006, 13:12
Well I'd prefer the rest of the mag actually functioning. It's more useful than the 20 pages of adverts at the start for example which is white space tastic.

Tooooon
13-07-2006, 13:24
What im saying is its useful in comparrason to whats in WD at the moment and the past 4months odd, but if WD does start getting back to normal, id prefer them to scrap it in order to make place for articles and such rather than keep it.

Bronka
13-07-2006, 13:27
It's a shame Guy Haley left so soon. When he became editor there was a definite feeling of positive change in the air, there was a definite improvement during his short tenure, and he seemed genuinely interested in turning the opinions of the readership into positive action.

Moving him might well turn out to be the final nail in the WD coffin. I'm even starting to wonder if it was Guy, working behind the scenes, keeping the magazine from going under during Paul Sawyer's reign.

Keravin
13-07-2006, 13:34
Guy Haley hasn't left. He's in charge of the majority of the content and then the region specific editors fill in what pages their individual issues allow which is minimal in the UK and a fair bit more in the US.

There is no normal for WD. If there was then I'd want it to be like 100-135ish.

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 13:55
Guy Hayley is in charge of ******* everything up. I liked the Dwarf when it was WD-UK under him, and I liked it under Paul Sawyer.

As it stands, it's just... pointless.

Wintermute
13-07-2006, 18:26
Can we get this thread back on-topic please which is discussing the content of WD 319.

General comments about WD should be made in the General White Dwarf Feedback Thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23972)

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 18:39
I really dislike this on-topic witch-huntery, but as you insist...

My main issue with WD-UK 319 is its complete lack of useful content. The general consensus is that about 6 pages at most was useful. The precise six pages are up for debate - and that from a 70pp magazine costing 4!?

It's a disgrace!

Keravin
13-07-2006, 21:46
Having now looked at the UK edition today it is obvious that the US edition is the flagship magazine. In comparison the US edition got a Golden Demon report (though most issues of US WD have one in), a warhost of Dol Amroth feature discussing strengths and weaknesses, converting Mordor Trolls, a Bretonnian Vamp Counts army, making trees and scenery, an article on a Lustrian diorama, converting some more LOTR figures (which is faintly ridiculous as it wants you to use hands of the Necromancer figure for one conversion, and a bits article on cities of death conversions.

The UK got a piece on a Black Legion army.

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 23:36
Damn colonials! You always have to be bigger and better, don't you?! :p

cailus
13-07-2006, 23:57
There still is a little mini-guide on the back of most of the boxes, isn't there?

They also now come with an instruction booklet (new Scouts and Termies do anyway, so I assume the new Tau and Eldar kits will be the same).

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 23:59
Aha! This of course means we must immediately print pages and pages of part breakdowns, as well as the booklets, in order to ensure that our idiot customers can glue the kits together without killing themselves!

cailus
14-07-2006, 00:03
As I said in my letter, if a person can't understand the instructions that come with the box, then instructions in the White Dwarf won't help much either.

Maybe they should rename the games as following:

Moronhammer 40,000
Moronhammer Fantasy Battle
Lord of the ******.

Keravin
14-07-2006, 00:28
The kits have come with instruction manuals since at the very least the new Space Marine codex releases. The Tau have them too.

cailus
14-07-2006, 01:25
You see I've only been buying antiquated Ork kits since then! And since I paint very slowly (yet my models still look atrocious) I have only acquired 4 plastic kits (2 buggys and 2 boxes of boyz). Inoly knew about Thermies and Scouts because my brother brought some for his new Imperial Fist Termie/Scout army.

Wintermute
14-07-2006, 07:36
As a direct result of my previous request to keep this thread on topic being ignored, I'm issuing a general warning. Anyone taking this thread off-topic again which is a breach of forum rules. will face the consequences.

Wintermute

Getifa Ubazza
16-07-2006, 13:07
I do feel WD is getting better although i was disapointed that they stopped splitting the differant sections a few issues back. The battle report was a lot better than most of there latest offerings although last months was better.

I would say that if they return to splitting the differant games again and increase the word count quite abit, I will be very happy.

Post 300 WooHoo!

Moralein
16-07-2006, 14:42
White Dwarf is as bad as it's ever been, if not worse. I can't understand how WD319 is better than say 318 or 317.

I wouldn't mind losing 1/4 of the pages if the remainder actually contained some content.

The first 20% is the usual adverts for new releases, loads of white space and huge text, no fluff whatsoever

Next 20% is the battle report, Cityfight reports have got to have a minimap at the very least, ideally a turn-by-turn report would be great. Can anyone say they could follow what happened during this battle? Where is the detail?

Jervis's section was simply a plug, 'buy more models'. This was very disappointing as in the past this section has highlighted new trends and ideas and given an indication of where GW is going. It must be great for Jervis's kids that daddy can get them very cheap models that they can play with, but doesn't tell me anything new.

We then get 10% of the mag as adverts for Gotrek and Felix (oddly, nowhere in this article does it mention that these expensive models are not normal scale), the only useful bit is the painting section.

So we're half way through the mag and so far we've had adverts and a confusing battle report, great work lads!

It doesn't get any better, a small LOTR section (don't play it myself, but wouldn't buy WD for the content-or lack of it!). This is followed by a very patchy beastman article, and a useful terrain section. The Eavy metal section was disappointing and I don't know why they bother to include it, the only bit that says anything is the 'painting horns' bit.

I go along with a lot of the other comments about the Eldar section, yes it's nice to see the sprues, but do I need a page on how to assemble a 5 part model? Isn't this info on the back of each box? The same goes for the Tau section, though the stealth suit is beautiful.

I've always loved the GD section, I find it inspirational, I love to see the best of the best of gamers painting and converting.

The Black Legion section was also nice but very light on text.

The stuff at the back has been reduced in size which is good but for some reason the extra pages have been lost.

All-in-all WD319 was very disappointing, it's a case of style over substance. There is little in the way of content, the page count is as low as I can remember it and the battle report was hopeless. I know Owen gets the blame by and large for the downturn but I'm starting to feel sympathetic. He answered a letter in WD an issue or two ago and I'd like to think he was setting the record straight, in effect he told everyone that he only has responsibility for the last 20 page of each mag, the storefinder and events section, everything else is out of his hands.

I do feel very strongly that the only way the get GW to listen is to stop buying WD until it improves. At the end of the day GW is a business, they are there to make money and anything that affects that will be noticed. If WD sales start to drop, if subscriptions are canceled or not renewed, someone will notice. The people who matter at GW will start to look at message boards such as this and start to realise that it's not just a minority of sad nerds whinging about their monthly mag. With any luck changes will start to happen. Unless I'm wrong of course and I am a sad nerd in a minority, whinging about nothing, time will tell.

Brushmonkey
20-07-2006, 20:01
Just stop buying it. White Dwarf is NOT aimed at you people any more. It is to inspire people to collect more figures and show you what the next newest thing is.

You want awesome content with plenty of wordage? How about y'all go and WRITE some!

If veteran level articles is what you want, then you as veterans should be able to create some (if you need some pointers, read some old WDs :p ).

Lord knows, there's this interweb thingy i've heard about now, seems that all manner of folks read it...

Gen.Steiner
20-07-2006, 20:09
Just stop buying it. White Dwarf is NOT aimed at you people any more. It is to inspire people to collect more figures and show you what the next newest thing is.

You want awesome content with plenty of wordage? How about y'all go and WRITE some!

If veteran level articles is what you want, then you as veterans should be able to create some (if you need some pointers, read some old WDs :p ).

Lord knows, there's this interweb thingy i've heard about now, seems that all manner of folks read it...

Arsch! :p What would we moan about then? :p

Firebase looks like it'll be A-1, for sure - but what about WFB or LotR players? Wargames Illustrated and Miniature Wargames only go so far ...

Brushmonkey
20-07-2006, 20:28
Firebase is good news, hopefully it will inspire others to form sister projects for WHFB and LOTR.

Warseer has a pretty good comunity and if people are so emotionally invested in this hobby then it shouldn't be a particular hardship to get articles together!

Lord knows, some enterprising litte bugger may even come up with some program doohicky to make battle report maps a bit easier to make...

Some guy (UK)
20-07-2006, 20:55
Well, that was it, my fianl chance for WD has come. Result? You guess.
Everything seemed to be advertising- even the Gortex and Felix painting guide- 'here we used the super detail brush from the painting masters set' etc.
The Medusa article told me nothing I don't know.
The 'Battle report' was short on story and text (what isn't in WD :rolleyes: ), though I did like the idea of a recovery mission.
Terrible LoTR content, oversized text at the back (I'd rather have the store listings than events tables, and general filler TBH).
I'll give it a 2.
Shame.

Ah well, it's not like I'm at loss- FIREBASE is comming after all, and by the looks of it, the wait will be worth it.

Later, Some Guy

Serpent
21-07-2006, 06:04
Having read half of it at my friend's house yesterday, I am appalled. The battle report was no battle report, it was just six pages of generally telling a story. In a bad way. Hell, just write a short story and add a few photos of models looking like they're re-enacting the battle next time. It might be entertaining, at least. This way, there are no tactics, no ideas behind what each army does and how it comes to fruition or goes down the pits.

The Standard Bearer part has been covered. Good for you, Jervis, your kids have reached the point where they don't actually eat the minis (sorry, I meant CITADEL MINIATURESTM!), but what's the point? Is it that young kids don't go for balanced armies, but want to field an entire force full of Termies/Swordmasters/Balrogs? That we, as older gamers, should calm down and not hack the kids to pieces for using models that they like instead of models that they tactically need? If so, that's a good point. Not the CITADEL MINIATURESTM E-induced raveing we had to read. :)

So far it's a 2 for me. I'll vote when I've read the whole thing.

(By the way, how do I produce a proper TM-sign here on Warseer?)

Serpent

Osiris
22-07-2006, 23:13
The worst thing here for me was definitely the so called battle report. I'm in my fifth year of playing this thing now, and for just as long have I subscribed to WD. I used to learn from the battle reports, but not anymore.

I would really like to see some maps and army lists with the points added together. And why can't the WD team give us more from the actual game play? Tell us how many dices were rolled, how many inches you moved, how many hits and wounds were taken. I don't need it all, but in 18!!! pages we deserve more text and good maps (and of course some photos). Not the bad and completely uninteresting storytelling we saw this time, but battle reports that make us better players, that make us think - not guess what might have happened.

In this last battle report I suspect (but I don't really think so) the WD team of just writing down what might have been a battle. Take the 1.000 points of Ultramarines. I know it says approx, but our beloved Graham McNeill must have taken at least 200 points extra (please tell me if I'm wrong), while Mat Ward obviously had his limit (approx 2.000 points) when he made his Black Legion army list.

Another strange thing is the buildings. Why are the biggest buildings not set up in the middle and outwards?

Ok, this was a lot longer than I planned. But I just had to say something.

- O