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mulchie
26-06-2006, 14:06
Ok here is my current position in the Warhammer 40k scene at the moment

...

yeah that was it. I am nowhere. You see i moved to this small town in Queensland (thats in Australia for those of you who don't know) and my faverioute Hobby has sufered as a result.

No one plays it. Theres no where to buy the minitures really (except this ****** place in town), and theres no windows with lovely painted mintures to keep me inspired.

So I just went on a trip to the City i used to live in and i visited the GW shop i used to visit. And now that i am moving back to this city at the end of the year I decided to take up the paint brush again and paint my way to success, at least on the battle field, not in the painting comps.

So I was thinking that instead of buying the new edition of the Tau codex and continue with my old tau army ( I still need to get the new rulebook, yes i know its blasphamy) I was thinking of buying and starting myself an Imperial Guard army. So i am looking for advice and a bit of inspiration to kick start me in the right direction.

I wouldn't mind just having an army with lots of pretty heavy weapons and a tonne of men, as well as a sniper or two... you know the kind of ppl you find in a ruined city...*cough that new city fight book*

So thats 3 books i think i will get then, the codex, the rulebook, and the city fight one(unsure of exact name or nature).

so any word of advice from you my fellow peers?

Thanks Mulchie:confused:

inq.covenant
26-06-2006, 14:45
If Imperial Guard is the way you want to go, get yourself the Imperial Guard Battleforce. If I remember correctly it has 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams and a Leman Russ Battle Tank. As you've already mentioned, you need the codex too. If you want to get into Cities of Death, get the Cities of Death boxed set rather than just the rulebook on it's own. Both it and any of the army battleforces are good value for money.

Gen.Steiner
26-06-2006, 15:34
Use the Cadian plastics if you want a lot of men.

A Battleforce and two more boxes of Cadians will give you enough men for two 25-man platoons and a Command HQ. The three heavy weapons teams will give you three crewed weapons (heavy bolters/autocannons/lascannons or mortars) and three rocket launchers, which is enough heavy weapons for every squad in your platoons.

The tank will be useful. In all, in GB pounds, that'll cost you about 88 for 60-odd men and a tank. Consider aiming for three platoons and about 100 men, with Sentinel support.

Obviously, buy the Codex!

Last of all, once you start the Guard, you'll never go back - welcome to the ranks, and fight gloriously for the Golden Throne! :D

Commanderxenos
26-06-2006, 15:39
why not use imperial guard rules.. and make your army into traiter guard.. This way you can convert your heart out to make it chaos, or just rebel, and still do Imperial Guard.

Shaper Shakra
26-06-2006, 15:44
Commanderxenos stop corrupting the innocent. :rolleyes:

Bregalad
26-06-2006, 15:47
Please consider, that Tau and Imperial Guard have some similarities, they are both shootists that have to avoid close combat. Living in a remote town, it might be good to start an army completely different, like Tyranids, Orks or SMs, so you can have a neighbour play your second army and both of you have some variance in play.

Otherwise, choose the IG style you like best. Cadians are standard and cheap, Catachans, well, few like them. Steel Legion only available via mail order, Vostroyans (quite unusual for Queensland perhaps), Tallarns (mail order mainly IIRC), Death Corps of Krieg from Forge World (if you can sell your kidney for a good price ;)), ... You can also chose more than one.

The composition can be with lots of soldiers or lots of tanks, and so on. Read the very long Tactica Imperial Guard in this forum for details and advice.

Splagbot
26-06-2006, 18:23
If your getting Imperial Guard then in my humble opinion you can't go far wrong with masses infantry with a spattering of tank support, theres nothing better than marching your mighty army of guardsmen into battle, watching your opponent slaughter half of them and still winning because their dirt cheap and you have still got loads of men left. If your unsure as to which models to buy I believe Cadians are probably the most versatile models in the range because they can be used to represent so many different regiments and you make up your own then theres no naff special rules to remember.

Thats what I think anyway.

Tooooon
26-06-2006, 19:16
Armoured Company FTW :D

With the new rules for it on the online chapter approved, they can even be superb in City Fights in a sense that you can make it so that at 15pts per tank, you dont have to take difficult terrain tests, which can be superb when it comes to such a type of game.

Voltaire
26-06-2006, 22:45
Buying the Imperial Guard will be a long term investment because they are going to probably be at the core of expansion codices in the future, and are one of the most versatile forces in the Imperium. Their background and abilities also mean they have the option of aligning with the Inquisiton to fill what people might see as their tactical holes (Close combat). They also have some of the best plastics (And resins for forgeworld) that sculpters can offer so it can be a converters dream.

I would go for IG for the following reasons;
1) tactical flexibility
2) good fluff potential
3) each force is unique

The only thing that would put me off the Imperial Guard is if you don't want to be painting dozens of men.

MarshallRenald
26-06-2006, 22:52
When i used to play Imp guard i used a base of fire made of the usuall shooty elements but I actually go forward with my guard. I would sweep a flank with an armored fist squad, storm troopers and ogryn, with some commisars thrown in. Plus some hellhound and sentinel support. The cool thing about IG is that you can fall into the normal (I'm going to sit behind my picket lined guard and shoot you) or you can be creative with your tactics and most people wont expect it. Best of luck

mulchie
27-06-2006, 05:46
Well I probly would start off with the Battalion box set (or whatever its called), and a couple of infantry box sets, did i mention i also have the witchhunters codex and a couple of minitures which could boost its size untill it gets bigger;) .

Well i was going to get cadians anyways as was said above, there the more versitiale models in the game.I would mind getting a leman russ or two and maybe a chimera or basilisk, but i don't like the amoured company rules that much, way to restrictive.

I got this image of a couple of rough men holding out in a ruined city with heavy weapons and a tank or two to provide support for them.

What do you guys think of snipers?

and what type of doctrines best represent guys who fight in cities?

also i should start thinking of paint scheme, i guess it would have to be urbanised, but won't look dicky on a grassy battlefield....

anyway thank so far to the responses keep them coming....

alons
27-06-2006, 07:58
what army size are you after first off?

1) Snipers are cool but are H weapons are your need to either deploy right first off or deploy near where you want them

2) hmmm i dont use doctines as i find them too restrictive for my tastes ( i play a shoot and charge style with 4 flamers in each platoon command squad)
but the following will set a good scene:
-Light infantry : improved mobility and the options for snipers!
-Iron disipline : need to keep the men going when the going gets tough
-Special Wepon Squads: 3 special weapons in 1 squad? why not!
-Storm Trooper : the elite troops that mis-jumped now with hellguns!
-dunno..Psykers or ogryns, something to give your army a good punch in cc

if you cant decide then go without docts until you get a good feel for the army

Axel
27-06-2006, 08:17
Patience and eBay will bring you a far way into getting lots of infantry, though it does not hurt to have a solid core to start from. Scanning through the Tactica-threat will also give you some impression on the different way the guard can play: vanilla with tank backuped masses, droptroopers, special forces, carapaced cc (I did't claim it has to work), light infantry, tank heavy, mechanized (lots of chimeras)...
The guard has tons of special troops that are invaluable if used right: Rough Riders, Ratlings, Veterans, Sentinels, etc...

mulchie
28-06-2006, 06:18
I was planning to get a 2000pt army, something i can take to tourneys, but i will probly keep adding on to it.

Whats and who are the vostroyans(spelling? not sure i only saw them yesterday while on the GW site) they look alright but i know nothing about them at the moment....

schoolcormorant
28-06-2006, 20:37
Last of all, once you start the Guard, you'll never go back - welcome to the ranks, and fight gloriously for the Golden Throne! - gen steiner

that is so right!!
i have been collecting imperial guard since January. last month i bought some tau stuff, codex, shadowsun, fire warriors and a hamerhead. they are now underfoot and adorning the bases of my imperial guard. don't get me wrong tau are cool enough but i was surprised by the lack of 'stuff' on the sprues it's great to add to your bitz box but you can't really do that with Tau. i am now a full time imp guard player because of the depth and versatility of the cadians and stuff.
what with the cities of death stuff and urban basing kit my army is an urban army with black armour and brown fatigues.
definetely start an imperial guard army

the vostroyan ethos is really cool though. and the models really are cool. but they are all metal (apart from tanks obviously) they do look really good. i know somebody who spent £100 on cadians and then sold them all for £30 untouched when he saw the vostroyans.

mulchie
29-06-2006, 05:28
So what are the Vostroyans exactly...?
Were they created for Medusa V or Cities of Death... or just for the sake of getting new models out?

I am a bit unsure you see...

schoolcormorant
29-06-2006, 19:31
i think it's a bit of all three. there are so many imperial guard forces, cadians, tallarn, catachans, mordians etc but vostroyans really are an urban army. they suit the gothic style of cities of death. plus they are all metal. i think it's easier or cheaper to produce metal figures than boxes of sprues. they basically have a very soviet look to them. at least the person who told me about them thought so.

Hlokk
29-06-2006, 20:04
I'd say the IG batallion is a waste for a new starter. Get yourself 3 boxes of infantry, a chimera and a heavy weapon box. With some creativity, you'll be able to make:

3 x infantry squads with grenade launchers and missile launchers.
1x platoon command with 2 grenade launchers
1x Command platoon with 4 grenade launchers
1 mortar support squad
1 heavy bolter support squad
1 lascannon support squad
1 armoured fist squad with a flamer (or melta if you can find one kicking around)
20 conscripts.

So for that, you get three troops choices, a decent HQ and that buttload of heavy weapons.

Imperial Stormtrooper
29-06-2006, 21:48
if youre startin a gaurd army, you need to have alot of tanks, weopan teams(preferably a few lascannons and autocannons), take rough riders calvary, (for 61 points u get 5 calvary with power weopan lances....deadly against marines..nice suicide squad to takes shots up too), and..... on the sniper issue, i dont believe there that good... one shot you get a save against? JUST ONE? get a plane from Forgeworld.com too

Inq. Veltane
29-06-2006, 22:49
But snipers are only 5 points. They are a cheap way to burn 5 points in a unit that doesn't already have a heavy weapon.

Imperial Stormtrooper
29-06-2006, 22:52
true, but you just forget about snipers and get another gaurdsman for almost same points.... only reason i would use snipers, if i had IG of course, would be in a Cities of Death battle on a very tall building

Splagbot
29-06-2006, 23:01
true, but you just forget about snipers and get another gaurdsman for almost same points.... only reason i would use snipers, if i had IG of course, would be in a Cities of Death battle on a very tall building

I concur, for snipers to really have any effect on a battle they have to have good line of sight, something which is generally lacking in most battles that are not in an urban setting, trust me mate the average Guardsman rules and the Lasgun although individually not great, is not to underestimated in large numbers.

mulchie
30-06-2006, 08:46
well i really only wanted the snipers as i was having an urban army and they have a nice feel to them. I was even thinking of getting the cities of death codex to add some depth to my games. so the whole sniplers only good in buildings is what i was aiming for.

on the topic of snipers, what you guys think of ratlings?

and i don't like rough riders as the models are **** in my opinion and don't fit in with the theme i want to go for ....but if you could convert them?

and i am surprised that no one mentions sentinals? why this are they bad?

Imperial Stormtrooper
30-06-2006, 21:43
yes, but rough riders are good fighters for their points and they do move pretty fast on their horses, and would it be to hard to convert into an urban theme? and for the sentinal... they're not to bad i suppose, but with armour 10 all around and open top it will die pretty easy and if there are few tanks and the sentinal has a lascannon, it might be targeted and destroyed pretty fast..

Splagbot
30-06-2006, 22:04
and i don't like rough riders as the models are **** in my opinion and don't fit in with the theme i want to go for ....but if you could convert them?

You could possibly have them as bikes, not sure how you would do them, but if you could pull it off they would look pretty good.

schoolcormorant
30-06-2006, 22:28
there is a conversuhun klinic on the GW site that tells you how to convert them to bikes, but i think it probably costs about £30 each to make one. the cadian sniper figures aren't really up to much anyway they are a bit bland but with graet oppurtunities to paint camouflage.
don't underestimate a sentinel you can get a highly mobile lascannon wielder for about 50 points they have pretty good armor too. they have saved me against bikes multiple times

Spaceraider
01-07-2006, 00:02
the comorant is right.

Sentinels are best offering a flexible approach with reserves, whack a lascannon/improved comms upgrade on squads of two and land storm troopers around buildings with autocannon chimeras in support...

I really missed my snipers in COD, firing lanes from building tops combined with pinning tests are awesome for guard against assault based armies. I may even revert to light inf with demo charges. If they take a building blow it up, i'm sure there's an STC somewhere that makes them.;)

i think i'm so ironic

Axel
01-07-2006, 11:08
Rough Riders can be made better. I have several (unfinished) projects on that one:

1. Build your own conversions based on Cadians
http://www.schudak.de/axel/bilder/wh40k/project1/rider2b.jpg
http://www.schudak.de/axel/bilder/wh40k/project1/rider2a.jpg

2. Use wood elve horses for the riders - it fits their posting far better:
http://www.schudak.de/axel/bilder/wh40k/project1/RRAttilan.jpg

3. Use Xenos (Saurian) horses and Cadians
http://www.schudak.de/axel/bilder/wh40k/project1/RRSaurian.jpg

There are plenty of other conversions out there, eg. with bikes, and rumours state that Forgeworld will publish Krieg-Riders soon. They already have the (forbiddenly expensive) Tallarn Mukaali riders.

mulchie
01-07-2006, 11:13
You could possibly have them as bikes, not sure how you would do them, but if you could pull it off they would look pretty good.

yeah maybe i could have them lookinh like the old Japanese armies in world war 2... you know on the push bikes:wtf:

but seriously, I don't thing i would uses them i would perferer more troopers and heavy weapon teams working in conjunction with tanks and maybe a sentinal out on the flanks.

Troops move to gain ground, HW support, Tanks offer support and threaten enemies and the sentinals move around the flank of the enemy using cover if possible (hopefully won't be destroyed to soon) and could possibly draw enemy fire and intrest.

should i be using stormtroopers?

mulchie
01-07-2006, 11:19
Hey Axel like the conversions, especially the first ones.
I see you used empire knight legs for them...i have plenty of them lying around.

seeing these pics have given me inspiration just some questions, what other components did you use? How much did it cost you? and what tips do you have if i decide to undertake this conversion?

alons
01-07-2006, 11:30
sentinals are good but i find that using 2 pairs (1 pair with multi lazer and the other with autocannon) works well, the enemy puts them at the 'low priority' area and then you bring them round and set up a firing line on his tanks side/rear armour in such a way that he can fight back well enough to be sure of killing them

if he fails to stop the sentinals, then your free to move on and keep harrassing

if he cant be sure that he will nail them, heel likely divert more firepower at them (think of a flamer to kill a fly)

and fore all of 45 points, my multilaser sentinals have done them selves proud

Splagbot
01-07-2006, 12:00
should i be using stormtroopers?

The problem is IG have so many elites choices it can be hard to choose which ones to take and when building my IG army I decided on Cadians as you can take Kasrkin and they are basically just Stormtroopers, this then frees up elite choices for other things like a Penal Legion squad using the Hardened Veteran rules.

mulchie
01-07-2006, 12:09
Are there actual rules for using the Cadians? I thought that they were only the standard models and used the normal rules....I just thought Karskin where just the standard stormtroopers with just a fancy name....

Splagbot
01-07-2006, 13:21
Are there actual rules for using the Cadians? I thought that they were only the standard models and used the normal rules....I just thought Karskin where just the standard stormtroopers with just a fancy name....

Codex Eye of Terror contains rules for them, the average Cadian Guardsman is no different from any other, but there a few choices in there that are unique to the Cadians, one being Kasrkin

mulchie
02-07-2006, 03:34
ok then... well anyway, are there anyother ways to convert the Rough Riders?
Anyone have any Ideas?????

schoolcormorant
02-07-2006, 12:34
a really cool idea would be to get some modern war jeeps, like actual time ones, or hummvees and put some cadians in, some insignia and some imperial eagles, you would most likely need 1:35 grade and need an open topped version. imagine a column of hummvees tearing across the field.

revford
02-07-2006, 12:41
Like these?

http://www.ainsty.co.uk/mv.htm

28mm scale resin Humvee, I'd be tempted to add a heavy stubber from the Imperial tank accessory sprue to 40K it up.

Spaceraider
02-07-2006, 14:33
Those roughrider conversions are very interesting indeed... s'got me thinking about shelving the hellhound idea.

Couple of questions:

How do they hold up in CC against MEQ's? I'm guessing the number of attacks would be handy on the charge i'm just a tad concerned they'd not down enough of them because of the 3+ save and end up tied in combat and gradually worn down by the higher toughness/strength.

Also do they get a toughness increase like bikers?

Axel
02-07-2006, 16:45
seeing these pics have given me inspiration just some questions, what other components did you use? How much did it cost you? and what tips do you have if i decide to undertake this conversion?

I have used some old Bretonnian lances, normal horses, Cadian body and arms and a Catachan head on the forst one. I had the components lying around, so they were rather cheap.
My tip is to look into other conversion. There are some threads in the PT-forum, and some really great examples. Seeing others work is always inspiring (at least for me), and actually one of these made trying my own conversions.I see these as a planning stage for my own final RR-unit (currently I use some Attilans I grabbed from eBay).



Couple of questions:

How do they hold up in CC against MEQ's? I'm guessing the number of attacks would be handy on the charge i'm just a tad concerned they'd not down enough of them because of the 3+ save and end up tied in combat and gradually worn down by the higher toughness/strength.

Also do they get a toughness increase like bikers?

No increased toughness. RR are a one-time unit. They do their damage in the phase they charge, and are worthless after that - until they survive and you gave the sergeant a melta-grenade. Nasty surprise for your opponent if so.
In the charge-phase you get normal+1 attacks (11 when you use 5 riders incl. sergeant, around 60pts) counting as power weapons, so no armour save. They usually kill 3-4 SMs or Terminators, so they either need support or should only attack remnants. Do not charge full 10-man squads unsupported. If they kill 2 Termies, they made back their pts with interest.

Chem-Dog
02-07-2006, 22:12
what you guys think of ratlings?

I don't like them in my army, 40K is no place for Hobbits ;) but they do the job nicely, in Cityfight they'll do quite well because of their "go to ground" rule +1 to your cover save means a lot when you're cityfighting. The fact that you can deploy a unit as small a 3 models means they can make themselves a real pain no matter how big the battle is.
I would prefer to have a Special Weapon Support Squad armed with 3 sniper rifles.


and i am surprised that no one mentions sentinals? why this are they bad?

I LOVE sentinels but the new edition of the rules did reduce their effectiveness somewhat, often you are forced to choose between staying put and retaining some firepower or sacrificing an immobile vehicle with a working gun to keep up pace, a pain when you use them as mobile heavy weapons platforms, they can work well against. Multilasers are handy in cityfight though.

hellfire
02-07-2006, 22:34
If you're going to start gaurd you should get 2 battleforces two infantry squads and 2 chimeras then you need some HQ but thats really you're choice.
as for doctrines try these
stormtroopers/grenadiers
light infantry
sharpshooters
Iron discipline
special weapons

MrLiy
03-07-2006, 06:13
since we are on the topic for cityfight, I have a catachan army with lots of flamers, and tons of heavy weapons, any suggestions for converting to city, what doctrines to use to keep with catachan fluff. Afterall its just the asphalt jungle right...

schoolcormorant
04-07-2006, 11:14
Revford, that is it. i go to a local hobby shop and they had loads of different versions but those do look great.

mulchie
05-07-2006, 07:15
well thanks for all the suggestions.
I will keep alot of them in mind, but of late i was talking to some ppl and read some stuff and now i am tossing up between IG and i am sorry to say the NID's :wtf:.

I feel a bit dirty, like they are the type of army i wouldn't hae ever gotten but now i am starting to like certain aspects of them....

oh the humanity

vampires are cool!
05-07-2006, 10:10
tanks, all problems can be solved with tanks

schoolcormorant
06-07-2006, 13:45
tanks, all problems can be solved with tanks

yes, yes they can