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Bluecat
01-12-2014, 01:16
Hi all,

A mate of mine is starting a Raven guard HH era army. I have also been meaning to start one and conveniently want to do a Traitor one. As such I have been trying to think which legion is fluff-wise the Nemesis for the the RG. Personally i dont think its as clear cut as some of the other pair offs (Ironhands/Emps Children, Wolfs/1ksons etc). Thoughts?

Thanks

agurus1
01-12-2014, 03:26
Corax dueled with the Primarch of the Word Bearers, Lorgar, at the Istvaan Massacre

Thunderchylde
01-12-2014, 05:09
or Night Lords - Kurze was the one who jumped Corax while he was fighting Lorgar.

iamcjb
01-12-2014, 07:53
Any of the Legions at Istvaan would be a good match-up.

Fulgrim's Gimp
01-12-2014, 08:10
Alpha legion. See Deliverance Lost for how they affect the Raven Guard.Not only that but you could use a unit from any other legion with their rite of war. That's why I chose them and it gives me the freedom to include any other legion unit that I like the look of.

Baneboss
01-12-2014, 08:29
There is one story i think you could use involving Alpha Legion. It happens during the Scouring so after the HH but check it out:
"The Shadowed Ones - A large warband comprised of Renegades, diabolists and Traitors thousands strong, the Shadowed Ones are led by the Chaos Lord Dynat Mal, known as "Crowbane", for his ambush and slaughter of the Raven Guard forces at the Battle of Lyx during the Great Scouring. Fleeing to the Mandragoran Stars he gathered his massive force of Renegades, becoming known as "The Shadowed Ones", and employed guerrilla tactics and dark forces to extend their mastery of the region. This sundered realm, caught beyond the light of the Imperium at the edges of the Veiled Region, became known as the Dark Marches, and is benighted by ignorance and discord, and shrouded from human sight."
source: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Alpha_Legion
Also Alpha Legion infiltrated the Raven Guard after Istvaan and tried to undermine Corax's research.
I dont think RG have a clear nemesis but generally they dislike every enemy legion that took part in the Istvaan Massacre. It would actually be better if you took a legion that RG actually liked if it happens that you would play 2v2 forming an alliance against some guys.

terradax
01-12-2014, 08:31
I second Alpha Legion.

mostlyharmless
01-12-2014, 17:50
If you want to be a nemesis, Alpha Legion. If you want to be a foil, Iron Warriors.

Bluecat
02-12-2014, 02:58
Thanks for all the comments
* agurus1, can you point me to the book with this dual in it ?
* For guys suggesting Night lords and alpha legion, I'm not overly fond of the Bat wings/colour scheme. But yes understand they would be good match up.
* Baneboss, good point about make a loyalist legion as a team up. If i did i'd do a Salamander army.

Or if 1k sons were out, id' probably get an army cos they are the coolest thing ever

agurus1
02-12-2014, 07:17
Could always get basic stuff that will fit into any legion list (so tactical squads... An HQ ect..) and paint me up as Thousand Sons and wait (that's what I did for my Iron Warriors). As for which book described the duel between Corax and Lorgar, it was probably First Heretic, googling that subject should shed some light.

Spiney Norman
02-12-2014, 07:59
Could always get basic stuff that will fit into any legion list (so tactical squads... An HQ ect..) and paint me up as Thousand Sons and wait (that's what I did for my Iron Warriors). As for which book described the duel between Corax and Lorgar, it was probably First Heretic, googling that subject should shed some light.

I think is mentioned in the first heretic, the drop site massacre is also featured from the raven guard view point in the first few chapters of Deliverance lost.

It looks like the Word bearers mainly fought the raven guard at Isstvan V, after the drop site massacre the Alpha legion were responsible for sabotaging the gene tech which was needed to rebuild the legion. It's difficult to say that the Raven guard had a definitive nemesis because by the time they realise the heresy is actually happening they are all but wiped out anyway.

SirBlackmane
02-12-2014, 18:54
Could always get basic stuff that will fit into any legion list (so tactical squads... An HQ ect..) and paint me up as Thousand Sons and wait (that's what I did for my Iron Warriors).

Solid advice, this. I have a still-generic VI Legion patiently awaiting its special rules, squads, and characters. Quite playable in the meantime though.

Unexo
02-12-2014, 22:05
Take the legion you feel for. People commonly pick a legion that represent their own personality traits. So that is a place to start.

Spiney Norman
02-12-2014, 23:28
Take the legion you feel for. People commonly pick a legion that represent their own personality traits. So that is a place to start.

This is good advice, also playing heresy games is all about the narrative, if I were you I would join the local library, read through some of the HH novels and choose the legion you like the most from reading them. That's what gave me word bearers.

Baneboss
02-12-2014, 23:41
You could also take Sons of Horus because Raven Guard fought a lot with Luna Wolves before being reunited with their Primarch. Also for Sons of Horus it speaks that its such a major legion of the whole Horus Heresy events. Maybe there are some cells within both legions that fought alongside each other during those Great Crusade times and want to test their mettle now after the Istvaan massacre? You choose.

What is the most important is that you really should choose a faction that goes with your playstyle, fluff and aesthetic choices. If you choose a legion that you dont really identify with then you wouldnt put that much of a heart into it.

inq.serge
02-12-2014, 23:58
If you think 1ksons are the coolest, then you should take them. Yes, they do not have specific rules yet, but still.

I myself am thinking of Emp.Children as they feel to be a lot like me. Personality-wise, I'm a lot like Fulgrim. (Except I'm not Narcissistic). Choose whichever you feel for, not whomever your opponent dislikes.

Baneboss
03-12-2014, 09:50
If you want to pick Salamanders or any original loyalist legion and still have a good rival backstory behind it you can always assume that Salamanders did betray the Emperor and write your own heresy. There are some fan publications that deal with different views of Horus Heresy - for example Dorn Heresy where all loyalist legions actually betrayed, while all tratiors stayed loyal. You set the limit.

Snake Tortoise
03-12-2014, 12:21
For something as important as an entire army with the time, effort and money you're going to be investing I wouldn't worry too much about who the Raven Guard's biggest rival is. Choose whichever chaos legion you like most and then concoct your own back story for why the two specific armies (yours and your friend's) hate each other

Anyway, I agree with those saying Alpha Legion. There were seven more traitor legions at Istvaan though, any of them will do.