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View Full Version : End of Times Review (overall)



thrawn
01-12-2014, 21:34
So Iím going to write this up quick and whoever wants to read it by all means, other wise just feel free to ignore. As well, please note this is just my opinion, I'm not trolling. If you disagree that's great, we can have a civil conversation about it, but please no getting out of hand.

Iíve read the Nagash book now, and despite what the internet has been saying about how amazing it is, the story, the background, the artwork, etc. etc. at the most I can give it is a B-, probably closer to a C+.

The fluff was poorly written. TBH, Iíve read better fan fiction on line. Iím not expecting JRR Tolkien quality here, but I was expecting more. The original fluff from the 5th edition books was better then this.

The fluff itself is dull. Hereís an excellent synopsis ďthey took two steps, then got caught in a massive battle, everyone dies; they take another two steps, get caught in another massive battle, everyone dies, repeat, repeat, repeat . . . ď

I know itís a campaign book, but Nagash canít hold a candle to Tamurkhan (which is also a campaign book), and I was expecting Tamurkhan. In fact, anything the gifted Alan Bligh touches is amazing! The first Horus Heresy book I could hardly put down, and it was the single reason why I bought the other books and got into 30K. The Nagash book is just a poor copy of it Iím afraid. It seems to me that they had a target they were trying to get to, hired some authors, and told them, ďwrite something, and make sure when it all shakes out we have this ending.Ē Which is ok, if only it didnít feel so forced.

So, for those of you who were considering it, I would suggest you save your money. Itís not the type of book youíre going to say to yourself, ďoh Iíd like to read that againĒ whereas I can probably read my Tamurkhan book or Horus Heresy books half a dozen times and enjoy them each time.

When Iím finished with mine Iíll probably put them on ebay and try to get some of my money back.

zoggin-eck
01-12-2014, 22:05
Re-read the cover. No "of" Times. ;)

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying it, but might agree that it doesn't scream "take of the shelf occasionally just to re-read" as some Forgeworld books have.

doomspittle
01-12-2014, 22:16
Well I'll disagree, it's probably the best thing to ever happen to warhammer. Best you stick to x wing with the other cool kids.

Kahadras
01-12-2014, 22:22
Well I'll disagree, it's probably the best thing to ever happen to warhammer.

Please expand. Why is it the best thing to happen to Warhammer? What parts of his of his review do you particularly object to? Can you give the reasons as to why you disagree with them? Can you provide some examples?

doomspittle
01-12-2014, 22:24
Well my group is actually playing warhammer again. We have played nothing but infinity, 40k, but the last few months I've never seen my group so excited to play a bit of fantasy.

biccat
01-12-2014, 22:25
The fluff was poorly written. TBH, I’ve read better fan fiction on line. I’m not expecting JRR Tolkien quality here, but I was expecting more. The original fluff from the 5th edition books was better then this.

Not only was the narrative bad, the writing itself was terrible. Bad grammar, wordy run-on sentences, and a general lack of editing. I found myself re-reading whole paragraphs because sentences wouldn't make sense.

Very disappointing.

Katastrophe
01-12-2014, 22:37
Well my group is actually playing warhammer again. We have played nothing but infinity, 40k, but the last few months I've never seen my group so excited to play a bit of fantasy.

And this made it well written and well thought out to you. Pretty low bar there, don't you think. Just because it got you to play the game, does not make it well conceived fluff or well written fluff, it just makes it "fluff". There is a difference between being a good story, a well written story and just a story. This fits into the just a story category. I've read all 3 books and to say the least, I will read it all but I won't put it in a category of good.

Andy p
01-12-2014, 23:18
To be fair there is an important difference between something like Tamurkhan and something like the end times stories. And that important difference is that Tamurkhan was clearly born out of inspiration and ideas that just happened to be set in the warhammer world whereas the end times are born under the constriction of set characters and set factions and set places.

Less scope for invention and more for rehashing. The reason older fluff is usually more interesting, like the lost and the dammed for instance, is that it was building a world, it was inventing and the thrill of a new idea is heady stuff. But years later how do you go about writing an interesting story when you are weighed in by the pressure of what went before? It's constrictive rather than inspiring and besides which these are all about events in an established setting, which can be quite boring and let's not forget that Tolkien never really stopped building his world, there was always scope for more whereas warhammer's world seems to be about constants although there is plenty of scope, acting on existing characters without violating their personalities or history is extremely difficult, and Tolkien's world is HIS world not his and 50 other writers.

These books were never going to be intellectual, introspective stories on the nature of humanity or speculative texts on philosophical aspects that make us question our views of the world. They are more like blockbuster movies with good production values; nice to look at but never a reference for something deeper.

Personally I think given their due they did OK.

Jind_Singh
02-12-2014, 01:27
To be fair there is an important difference between something like Tamurkhan and something like the end times stories. And that important difference is that Tamurkhan was clearly born out of inspiration and ideas that just happened to be set in the warhammer world whereas the end times are born under the constriction of set characters and set factions and set places.

Less scope for invention and more for rehashing. The reason older fluff is usually more interesting, like the lost and the dammed for instance, is that it was building a world, it was inventing and the thrill of a new idea is heady stuff. But years later how do you go about writing an interesting story when you are weighed in by the pressure of what went before? It's constrictive rather than inspiring and besides which these are all about events in an established setting, which can be quite boring and let's not forget that Tolkien never really stopped building his world, there was always scope for more whereas warhammer's world seems to be about constants although there is plenty of scope, acting on existing characters without violating their personalities or history is extremely difficult, and Tolkien's world is HIS world not his and 50 other writers.

These books were never going to be intellectual, introspective stories on the nature of humanity or speculative texts on philosophical aspects that make us question our views of the world. They are more like blockbuster movies with good production values; nice to look at but never a reference for something deeper.

Personally I think given their due they did OK.

This is a masterful summation! Well said, well written good sir.

It's a summer block buster - it's got big effects, A-list cast, and some great love scenes - but there is a lot of mediocre scenes in between. You may watch it a few times in the begining but in the end it'll end up with the other DVDs and be saved up for a rainy day

Collector
02-12-2014, 02:41
I can tell you never read the novels that go with them just the excerpt books. The books that go with end times are a quick review of what happened and all noticeable battles where the novels are based more on... well being a novel. So thats kinda like complaining about a menu saying all it says is what the food name not what is in it.

GrandmasterWang
02-12-2014, 03:05
Interesting viewpoint. .. Thankfully spoiler free.

I like the Tamurkhan book alot but have not yet read the end times sourcebook.

I did however pick upbtge Josh Reynolds model which I will reaf soon

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Emissary
02-12-2014, 14:30
I can tell you never read the novels that go with them just the excerpt books. The books that go with end times are a quick review of what happened and all noticeable battles where the novels are based more on... well being a novel. So thats kinda like complaining about a menu saying all it says is what the food name not what is in it.

Personally, I like to also read the novels because they usually give different viewpoints to what's going on in the main book. They also expand some sections that are completely ignored or barely mentioned in the main book (like when the amber wizard finds the emperor.)

I've really enjoyed the series so far in both the actual game rules/scenarios and the fluff itself. I like the fact that you really don't know who will die and who will live and like that they're moving everything forward. After 20 years of the same old fluff it's refreshing for them to have a blank canvas of moving it forward. The only time I've seen this level of excitement around GW in a long time was on the initial release of the HH black library books, but that died down after there were no rules and they came out slowly. This has a lot of people buzzing about it in my area.

thrawn
03-12-2014, 18:31
To be fair there is an important difference between something like Tamurkhan and something like the end times stories. And that important difference is that Tamurkhan was clearly born out of inspiration and ideas that just happened to be set in the warhammer world whereas the end times are born under the constriction of set characters and set factions and set places.

Less scope for invention and more for rehashing. The reason older fluff is usually more interesting, like the lost and the dammed for instance, is that it was building a world, it was inventing and the thrill of a new idea is heady stuff. But years later how do you go about writing an interesting story when you are weighed in by the pressure of what went before? It's constrictive rather than inspiring and besides which these are all about events in an established setting, which can be quite boring and let's not forget that Tolkien never really stopped building his world, there was always scope for more whereas warhammer's world seems to be about constants although there is plenty of scope, acting on existing characters without violating their personalities or history is extremely difficult, and Tolkien's world is HIS world not his and 50 other writers.

These books were never going to be intellectual, introspective stories on the nature of humanity or speculative texts on philosophical aspects that make us question our views of the world. They are more like blockbuster movies with good production values; nice to look at but never a reference for something deeper.

Personally I think given their due they did OK.

This is a pretty good summary. I guess we knew it was going to be X-Men instead of Citizen Kane, but I was still hoping for maybe both? Ya that's a high bar, but not impossible.

And the part of having to stay within a pre-set world with pre-set characters was also disapointing. Why did Vlad have to be brought back to life? There must be dozens of Vampires in Sylvania, wouldn't it have it been more interesting if one kind of rises above the rest, is quite, intelligent, manipulative, and gains valuable lessons and experience as he forges his way through the war? Now you can create a new character, with new rules and even maybe a new model? It be like Tolkien saying, ya will Gil-Galad was just such a bad ass, let me just keep bringing him back to life again and again to fulfill the role of the hero elf . . . ah, weak.

Any who, I don't want to sound like a literary snob, but I wish they put some more passion into them instead of just making them a business decision. They need to find some authors who want to work at GW because they love Warhammer, and not just because it's a job that pays the bills.