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View Full Version : First game with WoC, advice needed, 1600 pt all-comers



-Epimetheus-
02-12-2014, 03:11
I'm going to be playing a game this coming weekend, this is the first game I'll play with my WoC army that I've been building for a while, and the first game of Warhammer I've played in ~6 years. I have no idea what army I'll be up against, nor the type of list I'll be up against, so I'd like to take something all-comers, and I used to play Dark Elves in the past, so I'm familiar with MSU tactics and this list tries to emulate that. Here's my initial list idea:

Sorcerer Lord - Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc, Talisman of Preservation, Flame Breath, Third Eye
400

Exalted - BSB, Mark of Nurgle, Shield, Scaled Skin, Luckstone
173

Sorcerer - Level 2, Mark of Slaanesh, Steed of Slaanesh, Skull of Katam, Enchanted Shield
195

Chariot - Mark of Nurgle
125

Chariot - Mark of Nurgle
125

5 Warhounds
30

5 Warhounds
30

5 Warhounds
30

17 Warriors - Mark of Nurgle, Halberds, Full Command
353

5 Hellstriders - Full Command
125

Army Total: 1586

I still have 14 points to play with, I'm not sure where I'd like to use those points though. I'd like to get flaming attacks in my list somewhere, but I'm not sure where, nor how.....

I have a solid block of Warriors with a BSB in it, I've got some Warhounds for chaff, I have 2 Chariots for a bit of punch, and I have the Level 4 and the Level 2 with the Hellstriders running around doing their things. I'm thinking Lore of Metal and Lore of Slaanesh would be ideal for an all-comers list, but I'm not sure. I didn't add things to my list that become really useful with the Lore of Shadows, and Tzeentch seems powerful but too random for my liking. The command in both units is because I want the ability to throw a body in the way of scary combat characters if needed, and banners for fortitude scenarios; if I knew I could avoid both of those situations I'd likely drop them for something else, like a few more bodies. Any and all criticism, comments, concerns, and ideas are welcome.

In Dark Trees
04-12-2014, 14:56
I'm going to be playing a game this coming weekend, this is the first game I'll play with my WoC army that I've been building for a while, and the first game of Warhammer I've played in ~6 years. I have no idea what army I'll be up against, nor the type of list I'll be up against, so I'd like to take something all-comers, and I used to play Dark Elves in the past, so I'm familiar with MSU tactics and this list tries to emulate that. Here's my initial list idea:

Sorcerer Lord - Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc, Talisman of Preservation, Flame Breath, Third Eye
400

Exalted - BSB, Mark of Nurgle, Shield, Scaled Skin, Luckstone
173

Sorcerer - Level 2, Mark of Slaanesh, Steed of Slaanesh, Skull of Katam, Enchanted Shield
195

Chariot - Mark of Nurgle
125

Chariot - Mark of Nurgle
125

5 Warhounds
30

5 Warhounds
30

5 Warhounds
30

17 Warriors - Mark of Nurgle, Halberds, Full Command
353

5 Hellstriders - Full Command
125

Army Total: 1586

I still have 14 points to play with, I'm not sure where I'd like to use those points though. I'd like to get flaming attacks in my list somewhere, but I'm not sure where, nor how.....

I have a solid block of Warriors with a BSB in it, I've got some Warhounds for chaff, I have 2 Chariots for a bit of punch, and I have the Level 4 and the Level 2 with the Hellstriders running around doing their things. I'm thinking Lore of Metal and Lore of Slaanesh would be ideal for an all-comers list, but I'm not sure. I didn't add things to my list that become really useful with the Lore of Shadows, and Tzeentch seems powerful but too random for my liking. The command in both units is because I want the ability to throw a body in the way of scary combat characters if needed, and banners for fortitude scenarios; if I knew I could avoid both of those situations I'd likely drop them for something else, like a few more bodies. Any and all criticism, comments, concerns, and ideas are welcome.

I don't play Warriors of Chaos but I do play against them with some frequency. My feeling is this list needs more hitting power and speed. As it stands, it only contains one real unit and a lot of chaff. My suspicion is that you are spending too many points on characters and not enough points of grunts. I'd probably drop the Sorcerer and add some Chaos Knights. If you need points, I'd replace the Hellstriders with Marauder Horseman. The former, while faster, seem situation and sort of redundant. I know I'd rather have Marauder Horsemen with flails than them any day. They are equally fragile and cost substantially less. That send, I tend to favor cheapness over other considerations. I might be missing something.

-Epimetheus-
06-12-2014, 02:02
Heh, oddly enough I tried to keep the characters cheap. With how the winds of magic works, it seems to mean that you have to have a level 4 and still some kind of backup caster in order to ensure you are able to use all of your power dice. The hellstriders are just a delivery mechanism for the level 2, as well as some ablative wounds, but I have no doubt they'll also be able to take on some lighter enemies with some degree of success. They are a couple points more than regular Marauder Horsemen, but not much more, and the extra speed looks like it would be well worth it. I dunno, I'll have to test that out.

I'm going to be going up against Lizardmen and Chaos Dwarfs (2 separate battles). Chaos Dwarfs didn't even exist the last time I played a game, so I have no idea what to expect. As for the Lizardmen army, I have no idea what type of list to expect.

-Epimetheus-
09-12-2014, 02:45
I gave my BSB the demonic gift that makes him cause fear, and I gave someone the potion of speed, two 5 pt items to fill the rest of the points. Neither of those items made a difference in either battles. The table we played on was smaller than the regular 6x4 table, which really hurt.

First game was vs Lizardmen. We rolled for scenario and it was the one which uses fortitude, and I had an idea for winning the battle, because I had an advantage in fortitude (he only had a general, 1 banner, and BSB vs my general, 2 banners, and BSB). My plan was to isolate and kill his general on turn 3, and to do so, I had to use a chunk of my army to tie up the majority of his stuff. I was planning on charging in on 3 different angles, hitting the front, side, and rear after drawing him out of position, and challenging with my Sorcerer Lord because he's incredibly tough to kill. By adding in combat resolution from my unit (banner, BSB, and 2 ranks), plus any impact hits which could potentially cause an extra wound from one of my chariots, I felt like I had a damn good chance of causing him to flee and then catching him. Alas, I screwed it up badly (and I mean badly), and my plan fell through..... Big mistakes were made. I really, really could have used some more maneuvering room, and the ability to spread him out more during deployment.

Second game vs Chaos Dwarves. This time we rolled the one where your units can end up in reserve. I had to deploy everything first, which really sucked..... When I saw him deploy some giant fire thing that I basically couldn't kill, and then a lot of war machines, I knew I was fighting an uphill battle. I did actually kill that giant fire thing, but not before I lost my unit of Warriors + BSB, which was worth much more than it was..... This game ended up somewhat close to a draw, as I was able to kill a lot of his stuff, but on turn 5 he fired a spell at my Sorcerer Lord which ended up causing him to be stupid on turn 6, and wiped out any chances of winning it in the end. A few things didn't go my way during that battle, but it went surprisingly well overall.

I definitely have room to improve, but I did like how the army played. There's some nice synergy in it. I do think I need to get a little bit more punch in my list somehow, but I'm not sure how..... It's not an army that's going to table my opponent, at least, it shouldn't be capable of doing that, but it looks like it should be able to get me a victory point advantage if I play it right and then allow me to play for points denial after that to conserve the win.

In Dark Trees
11-12-2014, 21:01
I would consider purchasing a Chimera. They are quite fast and hit very hard. I'd also consider upgrading a Chariot to a Gorebeast Chariot. Those are absolute murder. I'm also going to say something a lot of people might disagree with: drop at least one character. I know characters are assuming greater importance in the meta game but I feel that, by tying up around half of your points in three models, you might be disadvantaging yourself. If this were my list, I would drop the BSB.

Also, I have a question about the Warriors: do you envision them functioning as hammers or anvils? If the former, I'd consider giving them the mark of Khorne. If the latter, I'd give them the Mark of Tzeentch and shields. Personally, the way I see this list operating, the unit would contribute more as a solid anvil.

Just some thoughts from someone who doesn't actually play with the army. Take with a rather considerable lump of salt.

-Epimetheus-
14-12-2014, 04:31
A Chimera is something I'm considering getting for my army. I do want to get more options for characters, like a daemon prince and BSB on demonic mount for instance. Other things that I think would mesh well with my playstyle are Knights, as you've mentioned, as well as Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths, Skull Crushers, and to a lesser extent Spawn, Warshrines, and Hellcannons. I might also get some Chosen (I'll convert something rather than use the actual chosen models).

I don't like the idea of a Gorebeast Chariot though. Maybe I'm not seeing it right, but the speed is not something I'd want to give up.

I tried to keep the characters as cheap as possible. I do agree that half my points in characters is a lot, but I'm not sure where I can cut some out..... Chaos characters are expensive..... Oddly enough, I don't see them being much more expensive in a 2k or above point army, because I don't really need more than that. The BSB ended up being quite useful in allowing rerolls, and is not something I'd want to give up. The Level 4 was invaluable in both games, and killed more than his own worth in both games with ease. I screwed up in the first game with the level 2 and his unit, but in the 2nd game he worked really well, and while not strictly cost-effective, he and his unit did draw a lot of firepower and chaos dwarf magic before dying, which was worth it in my eyes. I could have played them better as well in that game, but that is how it goes.

As for the Warriors, they have the opportunity to be a bit of both a hammer and anvil. Lore of Metal has some awesome spells that can be used to augment the abilities of the unit in either an anvil or a hammer role, and the lore of Slaanesh also has spells that can help too. They're also the models I currently have ready for battle, I do have sword and board, as well as Great Weapon armed Warriors (both Nurgle as well) in need of assembly. I'm honestly not sure which one would be a better option though. I feel like Halberds are the option which, because while it is not the best in most situations, it is the most versatile option and won't let me down as badly in a bad matchup. S5 is adequate for most situations they should find themselves in, it allows them to utilize their naturally higher initiative, and between MoN and their armour they actually have relatively good protection which can potentially be further augmented.