PDA

View Full Version : Portents of Doom: What I hope doesent happen.



Mage
02-12-2014, 18:21
Hi all,

First and foremost, I haven't bought any end times books. I've read up on it on the internet here and there. I like that it seems to have fired up Fantasy players again, and that the story is progressing. Fair enough some people have issues with the execution in various shapes and forms. Now, everyone getting back into the game, their armies being added to again, new ones being started, all fantastic, and it looks like the game is getting somewhat on track.

As an eternal pessimist, I am afraid the following will happen: The End Times will actually go to its logical conclusion, the warhammer world as we know it will be destroyed, but not before a mass exodus where GW handwaviums their background so that the armies and races move to a new world (magic, derp) and they significantly change the background, rules, and invalidate everything we are all having fun doing now and beforehand, purely to grab more cash, entice new players, please the shareholders, and strengthen their copyrights and intellectual property.

Now, hopefully I am wrong, and its a longshot to say the least that I'll be right, but I have this little doubt in the back of my mind that the good times (End Times) are a bubble that will eventually pop with an explosive reaction from the fanbase.

Disagree and discuss as you may/want but please keep it civil. I'm getting sick at the b'witchiness on this site and snide remarks by people who forget that there are other human beings behind these profiles.

Andy p
02-12-2014, 18:38
Well if it does have that effect and since your potent is a common one, that would just mean a lot of people would leave this particular game.

People move on, besides which while I know it's popular to expect the worst of GW in their decisions when it comes to a doom and gloom perspective, sometimes it's incredibly histrionic, which isn't to say that there aren't issues with decisions that they've made but that the lighter side would be hopefully opening up people to try something else. GW are good at disappointing peoples expectations and this isn't always in a negative way.

I like fantasy personally and I really enjoy 8th even if, (like every edition), I sometimes think there are tweaks to be made. But I don't think the models will disappear overnight and even if they did I would still play with the base of players I play against now. The issue of investing years of money and time into something for support to stop and eventually die is a real one, but while the specialist games have slowly dwindled I don't find myself particularly bothered by the prospect of warhammer fantasy getting gutted. but that's personal and probably part of a belief system that I believe people will keep it alive as long as they could and even if they don't there are others things in life.

Mage
02-12-2014, 19:44
I'm actually hoping I'm wrong. This can be a negative site, GW don't exactly have a clean track record either (but few companies do with this type of thing, mistakes happen and errors in judgement with the direction of a game). What has me worried is that they hit a lot of nails on the head with the end times, so I reckon a massive bad things is gonna rear its head sometime in the not too distant future.

I don't think any edition is perfect for any game and we all have bits we do and do not like. It would just be a shame if backgrounds and stuff were modified beyond the point of no return and made themed armies that people have meticulously put their heart into pointless (like if they moved to a new setting and there was no altdorf because that couldn't be copyrgithed, being german for 'old town/village', this a large portion of the background and a common empire scheme being eliminated from the current background). Regarding Fantasy being gutted its bigger than the specialist games are, and hopefully it wont happen, but the phrase 'the bigger they come the harder they fall springs to mind.

ShruikhanTK
03-12-2014, 17:10
They could rearrange some things without a mass exile btw.....Slaan. I feel your concerns though, I don't even play Elves yet I don't want to see either one of them squatted for new twlight elves with a tinge of green mixed in :/. Or even worse my Tomb Kings merged with musty wet skeletons of the VC. Or....even worse Lizardmen straight up done dirty and killed by a meteor making a second guakomol crater....seriously the names are getting lame we get it gw we get it. If Lizardmen and landmarks have to die may I suggest those silly names to go first? Tik'tak'toe...Kroak is a double pun on him being a frog and dead so I applaud that one.

Mage
03-12-2014, 20:22
Never thought about Kroak being a double whammy, lol. I hope they do this right too.

N00B
04-12-2014, 00:30
My thinking is that as there is a video game in the making that the end times might be to tie in with that. If the plot of that game is basically around the end times and if they think there is a great story there that might get them access to a whole new set of customers (much as video games did for 40K) then it kind of makes sense for there to be this pre-existing environment to drop new players into.

It certainly seems like it would be odd to institute huge changes before seeing how that pans out.

TheMartyr451
04-12-2014, 02:37
My thinking is that as there is a video game in the making that the end times might be to tie in with that.

If the rumors are true it's most likely a Total War:Warhammer game.

N00B
04-12-2014, 02:55
Yes, I believe it is.

ShruikhanTK
05-12-2014, 20:34
Total war thats a thing for GW? Wow that would be awesome, everytime my walls get breached in that game I send the peasants in to plug it up. When the enemy is tired out from all the killing I send in the fresh troops, the peasants will have their sacrifice honored by forming the foundation of the repaired wall....we cannot expend any efforts for new brick.

Katastrophe
05-12-2014, 20:53
If the rumors are true it's most likely a Total War:Warhammer game.

It was announced as a project a while back. There's been no updates on Sega's site since though. They tend to give development notes along the way. Could be in development hell.

Dorack
07-12-2014, 21:07
You can simply purchase Medieval II: Total War + Kingdoms expansion and download the "Call of Warhammer" mod. They are about to release a new versión including Skavens. Looks and plays awesomely.

N00B
07-12-2014, 23:17
You can simply purchase Medieval II: Total War + Kingdoms expansion and download the "Call of Warhammer" mod. They are about to release a new versión including Skavens. Looks and plays awesomely.


Thanks... Doing this right now! Steam is a dangerous service.

Dorack
07-12-2014, 23:21
There are specific instructions to make it work with Steam. Took me a bit of fiddling but got it working. Look for info in the forums

kurisawa
08-12-2014, 06:26
Hey Mage,

I understand your worries, but I don't fully share them. It's funny how with things all good and fun right now lots of people have this nagging doubt it's all going to end badly. I wonder why that is? I guess there must be something to it, some previous past record with GW games, but I don't see it myself.

Lots of people accuse GW of "moneygrabbing", which sort of confuses me. It is a business after all; the only reason it exists is to sell products and make profit - as much profit as possible - and if they didn't, as a public limited corp, you can betchya bottom dollar the management would be right out and new owners swooping in to make sure it did.

That said, the best way to make that profit is to create excellent games and sell products that people want to buy - continuously. It is a luxury hobby after all. No-one is making us buy the models or books. In fact, once you've got together a good size army it is easy to stop buying - they'll last pretty much forever if stored right.

So, onto the topic at hand: Is the End Times really the end of Warhammer as we know it? I would be totally astonished if GW built all this up to then go and suddenly stop the game for some newfangled alternative. Seems like a pretty lousy way to keep those continuing profits rolling in to me.

So, I expect the next edition to build on what is happening now, perhaps featuring more armybooks rolled in together (which, personally, I'm totally OK with: Those who wish to play "pure" armies are still totally free to do so, while those who want to branch out and create Apocalypse-style formations can also do that. I just get fed up of having to buy 15 new armybooks every edition just to know all the rules needed to play the game!). Yes, the in-universe timeline has taken a big step forwards, and lots of new big fancy characters have returned/re-awoken, but rumours of the imminent demise of any particular army are... to my mind, for the moment... greatly exaggerated...


K.

Banville
08-12-2014, 08:49
Total war thats a thing for GW? Wow that would be awesome, everytime my walls get breached in that game I send the peasants in to plug it up. When the enemy is tired out from all the killing I send in the fresh troops, the peasants will have their sacrifice honored by forming the foundation of the repaired wall....we cannot expend any efforts for new brick.

You're Bretonnian, right?

Rake
08-12-2014, 13:53
Unless they are convinced that the future of their product is in serious jeopardy I cannot imagine them killing a product they have been building over the last few decades. Frankly I never understood the need to create a world with and impending apocalypse looming. Overwhelming Chaos gods is BORNIG. They are mafgical! They can spawn massive armies form nothing! Its just lazy storytelling. Gehenna killed Vampire: The Masquerade and their reboot was a failure. I would expect the same from Warhammer NEXT.

ShruikhanTK
09-12-2014, 23:22
You're Bretonnian, right?

Lizardmen First
Tomb Kings Second
Empire Third

maybe I picked the wrong army huh?

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
10-12-2014, 01:35
I find it exceedingly unlikely that GW would put all this effort the lore of their world only to flush it all down the drain. The whole End Times arc seems like it's designed to get people interested in the Warhammer World, not just trash it.

I've said this elsewhere, but I strongly believe that GW's intention here is to give the Warhammer World the same powerful identity that Horus Heresy gives to the WH40K world. Before ET the WHFB seemed very generic to most players. It wasn't...there's actually a very large amount of compelling fluff. But most players only knew the fluff in their own armybook and had only vague ideas about everything else.

Anchoring everything into the ET arc creates a unifying narrative to give the Warhammer world a more unique character. The way the WH40K universe was built, for instance, gives every battle this incredible sense of purpose. The good races are on the brink of extinction, beset upon by the forces of evil at every angle. The stakes are high, and the beacon of humanity shines just a little dimmer with every defeat. WHFB by comparison had battles where defeat meant...mild annoyance. Skirmishes and border raids, taking artifacts or taking them back, burning a town or two on along borders unchanged for centuries...

And now we have ET shaking that all up. The entire world is on the line once again, and not just from the umpteenth incursion of Archaon that we all know will be beaten back at any moment.


I would be shocked if the ET arc actually ends this storyline. A bunch more special characters will die, buying time and a bit of breathing room for the forces of good to regroup. But that's it. Everything else will be up to you, the player, to build in your own head. And future GW armybooks, of course, showing small incremental gains in returning their races to glory (because who wants to read about defeats in your own armybook).

sixfthoneybadger
10-12-2014, 19:41
IMO GW is trying to make themselves look more marketable so they can sell. They (GW) doesnt support GTs like they use to. They seem to be lining up to be more online and less of a retail store. It makes since. You either adapt or die. I think WHFB will be around in some form. They (GW) are being pushed for the first time by companies like Mantic and Privateer Press. Just my opinion.

Spiney Norman
12-12-2014, 08:09
Lots of people accuse GW of "moneygrabbing", which sort of confuses me. It is a business after all; the only reason it exists is to sell products and make profit - as much profit as possible - and if they didn't, as a public limited corp, you can betchya bottom dollar the management would be right out and new owners swooping in to make sure it did.


I get we live in a capitalist economy, and we all know how companies operate, but it doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me to have some expectation that GW should be motivated to make the best game it can as well as turning a healthy profit. When profit becomes your only motive, product quality suffers, and given the quality of the rules that Gw has been putting out for both warhammer and 40k over the last couple of years I'd say they are very much in that place.

Very often the most successful companies are those that are passionate about making a good quality product, not simply out to make as much money as they can. It's pretty clear from where I am sitting that Gw has lost their passion to make a good game and are making increasingly short-term decisions designed to bring in as much revenue as possible to shore up their decline profit reports. It really doesn't take a marketing genius to see how unsustainable that is.