PDA

View Full Version : Forgeworld plastic?



SirBlackmane
02-12-2014, 19:38
Is there a specific reason that Forgeworld won't release plastic kits of their own?

I realize that for many of their kits it's not cost efficient, however for a lot of the Heresy line, with a proven sales record and in many cases backed up production, switching to plastic would get them more reliable production, better quality assurance, more profitable model kits, and an easier acceptance into the mainstream 40k community.

And yes, it'd be cheaper for us consumers too.

I'm not saying to switch everything across, but I am curious as to why they haven't made anything in plastic whatsoever. Are they die-hard fans of individual casting? Is there an internal directive or legal reason that they cannot produce plastic kits?

Again, I'm just curious if anyone knows of a specific reason why they haven't/cannot do this.

Hendarion
02-12-2014, 19:50
There is one reason: Quality of details. You can say what you want, but plastic Marines do not have the same detail level as resins. No, not even the new kits.
Apart of that, they are traditional sculptors, not the 3D-digital-sculpters who are working on the core model ranges nowadays.

Vaktathi
02-12-2014, 19:58
Plastic manufacturing requires an entirely different order of investment. The machines are often six figure investments, and the molds for each kit like are frequently five figure investments, sometimes six as well. You need a facility to handle that as well, usually with overhead cranes to lift molds (which often weigh hundreds of pounds) from storage to the machines and back and the like. For just a handful of kits which may sell *really* well, you may be able to justify the investment in molds but not the facility or machines. If you're looking at plastic and thinking "yeah, we can probably ship a couple million kits over a few years, and tens of thousands of each kit", plastic is excellent. If you're thinking "yeah, some kits we'll only ever sell a couple thousand of, our best seller may only sell maybe fifty thousand kits over a couple years" then that investment in plastic is not going to pay off.

On top of that, the design process and what you can do with plastic is different than what you can do with resin. Plastic typically can't do under-cuts for example without making a separate piece the way metal and resin can. It's very easy to 3-D design things for plastic molds, but I believe FW still hand designs each of their models, which does not translate well to making the molds which have to be CNC machined.

Bigglesworth
02-12-2014, 20:00
They are doing a lot of 3d now I believe, but obviously the master is still moulded in silicone like before.

SirBlackmane
03-12-2014, 03:07
Plastic manufacturing requires an entirely different order of investment. The machines are often six figure investments, and the molds for each kit like are frequently five figure investments, sometimes six as well.

Thanks. I was mostly looking at it on a per mold basis, forgetting the facility involved. I still think they could be farmed out to GW's facility in that case, or some other arrangement come to, but that's a very real argument for continuing resin production.

Tastyfish
03-12-2014, 09:04
They are the same company don't forget, so if Forgeworld did design a model to be made using the normal plastic machines - why wouldn't GW release it instead so Forgeworld can make more options by doing add-on kits?

MrKeef
04-12-2014, 01:58
They are the same company don't forget, so if Forgeworld did design a model to be made using the normal plastic machines - why wouldn't GW release it instead so Forgeworld can make more options by doing add-on kits?

Well, that has happened before. Look at the Tyranid Trygon and Guard. Baneblades.

Forgeworld exist to make things that aren't popular enough to become part of the main citadel range. When they do become more popular, they get moved over to plastic and sold by GW.

"But the HH range is very popular!" I hear you shout. Yes, but that range is spread across dozens and dozens of resin upgrade packs and (presumably) 20ish large models. The main range is too fractured to become plastic and the Primarch models are better done in resin for the fine details.

Vaktathi
04-12-2014, 04:17
To be fair, the Baneblade got entirely redesigned, sharing nothing in common with its FW predecessor, though I believe the Trygon, Pirhana, and other such units were moved over pretty much as-is with minimal changes.

AndrewGPaul
04-12-2014, 11:27
It looks like they've stopped doing that, too; For example; the Eldar and Tau got entirely new aircraft rather than use Forge World's designs (which in the case of the Eldar, were pre-existing in written material and models from the main studio). The Tyranids got a whole new set of monstrous creatures rather than a plastic Heirodule and Harridan, and the Imperial Guard Hydra, Vanquisher, Executioner (and probably a couple of the other Leman Russ variants) are new designs.

It works the other way, too; Forge World invented their own Thunderhawk Transporter instead of the existing Space Marine Landing Craft (although admittedly, that would be the size of a Tau Manta or more).

aprilmanha
04-12-2014, 12:09
I kinda wish they would use plastics, my last contemptor dreadnought from them has begun to go soft and loose its detail in some areas.
Seems like the material is contaminated some how but the only support I can get on it so far is that "I should not put my models under extreme heat".

Pretty sure my cupboard is not that extreme...

Hicks
05-12-2014, 03:32
If they can make limited edition plastic models, I don't see why they could't make 30K plastics.

Fizzy
05-12-2014, 08:57
If they can make limited edition plastic models, I don't see why they could't make 30K plastics.

Less details and no reason for FW to continue making it. Then GW could just take over and a lot of fans would turn down the new models. FW is expensive yes but even I want the detailed and expensive version even if I am extremely poor. Quality over quantity.

Tastyfish
05-12-2014, 12:07
Well, that has happened before. Look at the Tyranid Trygon and Guard. Baneblades.

Forgeworld exist to make things that aren't popular enough to become part of the main citadel range. When they do become more popular, they get moved over to plastic and sold by GW.

"But the HH range is very popular!" I hear you shout. Yes, but that range is spread across dozens and dozens of resin upgrade packs and (presumably) 20ish large models. The main range is too fractured to become plastic and the Primarch models are better done in resin for the fine details.

That's kind of the point - FW did design them but when they came out in plastic it moved over the GW.

Beppo1234
05-12-2014, 15:01
That's kind of the point - FW did design them but when they came out in plastic it moved over the GW.

FW designed their own. I'm assuming when the decision was made to adopt existing FW models into the GW mainline plastic range, that GW commissioned completely new sculpts designed for the plastic process.

I think the HH minis are popular, but it's a niche, within another niche... so I don't think that really qualifies it for a mass production plastic investment.

SirBlackmane
05-12-2014, 15:13
Less details and no reason for FW to continue making it. Then GW could just take over and a lot of fans would turn down the new models. FW is expensive yes but even I want the detailed and expensive version even if I am extremely poor. Quality over quantity.
The bog standard mark armors would not suffer from moving over to plastic, and really neither would the Mark 1 Rhino or most of the Predator Variants (this is a bit of a pet peeve for me).

Now, detail loss on the chapter specific bits and the special characters I can certainly see as being a valid point. But since those have a smaller potential market anyways the benefits of moving over to plastic become more moot.
Part of it is that I'm annoyed that my Mechanicum models only come with specific weapon options and a plastic sprue would solve a lot of my frustrations, although the resin does make for done really nice models in this army.

Beppo1234
05-12-2014, 15:46
The bog standard mark armors would not suffer from moving over to plastic, and really neither would the Mark 1 Rhino or most of the Predator Variants (this is a bit of a pet peeve for me).



I'm pretty sure this is a cost benefit argument of releasing nearly identical products. The contemporary plastic predator and its cost already exist. I think the cost of releasing HH predator variants in plastic will be greater than the revenue generated by the new model + the revenue lost by the existing model (to the new HH model). Same goes for the marine models. Another question is whether GW has the capacity to do HH in plastic (my observation is they can add about one new plastic product per month, per system on average). So between WFB and W40k, I'd wager no.

Fallen DA
01-04-2015, 10:38
I stopped buying from Forgeworld a few years ago because of the poor quality of the product I recieved, even after taking pics, and explaining the issue, and recieving replacments pretty much as bad as the original. I ended up putting the whole lot in my bits box, where it's sat for years. FW must loose A LOT of money from customers because of this, and the lack of durability of resin against plastic. The HH range is a sure bet, and aside from some chapter specific items could easily be made in plastic, even if it meant cutting the corners of some of the detail a little bit, and produced a boxed set that covered various MK's of armour. They'd make their investment back, and some... Or if GW covers the plastic range, they should look at this option. HH armour MK's can easily be used for Vanguard Sq's etc.

Spiney Norman
01-04-2015, 19:03
There is one reason: Quality of details. You can say what you want, but plastic Marines do not have the same detail level as resins. No, not even the new kits.
Apart of that, they are traditional sculptors, not the 3D-digital-sculpters who are working on the core model ranges nowadays.

Forgeworld are moving towards more of the digital sculpting I believe, iirc the solar auxilia models were done that way (which might explain why I don't really like them).


I stopped buying from Forgeworld a few years ago because of the poor quality of the product I recieved, even after taking pics, and explaining the issue, and recieving replacments pretty much as bad as the original. I ended up putting the whole lot in my bits box, where it's sat for years. FW must loose A LOT of money from customers because of this, and the lack of durability of resin against plastic. The HH range is a sure bet, and aside from some chapter specific items could easily be made in plastic, even if it meant cutting the corners of some of the detail a little bit, and produced a boxed set that covered various MK's of armour. They'd make their investment back, and some... Or if GW covers the plastic range, they should look at this option. HH armour MK's can easily be used for Vanguard Sq's etc.

Sounds like you have a slightly unfortunate axe to grind, I've bought a lot of Forgeworld products including a substantial Horus Heresy Legion and several warhammer monsters, I have only ever had one miscast (on a river troll hag) and the defective product was replaced immediately with a perfect part. In my experience forgeworld's failure rate is much lower than GWs and their standard of customer service is just as high.

I also don't especially find resin to me much less durable than plastic, at least not if you take care of your models, and it's much easier to correct warping or repair breaks when they do occur on resin models. In addition cast quality and sharpness of detail is orders of magnitude better on forgeworld's resin marines than the plastic GW range.

Inquisitor Kallus
01-04-2015, 23:52
FW designed their own. I'm assuming when the decision was made to adopt existing FW models into the GW mainline plastic range, that GW commissioned completely new sculpts designed for the plastic process.

I think the HH minis are popular, but it's a niche, within another niche... so I don't think that really qualifies it for a mass production plastic investment.

Nope, they scanned them and made adjustments so they would work with the plastic mould process