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Galushi
04-12-2014, 20:45
Hello Everyone!
Long time lurker here, I donít often post but I do read the forums nearly every day since the Dwarf update came last march and I was constantly scouring for rumors.

To start with, I embarked on this idea with the intentions of balancing power dice generation for a varying amount of wizards. It seemed odd to me that aside from the slim chance for each wizard to generate one extra power dice, you roughly had the same power pool whether you had one or 5 wizards. I wanted to give incentive to take more magic, and letting it scale in larger games. I had to be careful though because I donít want the power creep to be so much that if one side takes a LOT of wizards, the dispeller has no hope of canceling anything. I donít want this to turn into 40kís 7th Edition psychic phase.

With that in mind, what Iíve come up with I think is a compromise between standard magic rules, and the End of Timeís magic which seems very exploitable to me. You get the standard 2d6 winds of magic, plus greatly increased amounts of channeled dice based on your wizard levels. This also gives a feel of 7th Edition magic. Iím also tempted to add in that dice generated by wizards must be used by the wizard, and that wizards can only use (Wizard Level + 2) dice per casting. So only lvl 4 wizards could 6 dice spells.

What branched from this was brainstorming ideas for things related to Magic Resistance, and Dwarfs being one of my main armies, I wanted to make a Dwarf RuneLore for magic casting. The Anvil of Doom is severely underwhelming and overcosted in my eyes. I donít see why Dwarfs canít have some sort of ĎRunepriestí or ĎRunemageí that acts as a standard wizard. Sure it goes against the fluff, but lotís of people make up their own fluff, why canít part of mine be a rare group of magic users?

For all these House Rules, balance and points cost is very much a work in progress, and Iíd love feedback regarding that. Any comments or criticism is welcome.

All standard magic phase rules apply unless specifically contradicted by these amendments.

Dice Generation:

Power Dice are generated by rolling 2D6 for Winds of Magic, and rolling D6 for every Wizard Level on your armyís Lords and Heroes. On a 3+, you generate an extra power dice.

Dispel Dice are generated by the highest roll of the 2D6 Winds of Magic, and rolling a D6 for every Wizard Level on your armyís Lords and Heroes. On a 5+, you generate an extra dispel dice.

Iím not sure whether to still include a dice pool cap at 12 dice. I want to prevent exploiting for too many extra power dice, but I think thatís prevented by limiting the dice channeling to Lords/Heroes. Even if there was a cap at 12, having extra wizard levels would increase you average and make it more reliable.
As an idea for the Dwarfen Runepriests, Iíd make them channel both power and dispel dice on 4+ to represent their natural resistance to magic.

Spell Generation:

Spells are generated like normal, although you cannot exchange a spell for the loreís signature spell. Instead, all wizards automatically know the signature spell from any Lore they generate spells from.

Loremasters know the entire lore, and may reroll 1 dice per magic phase [Possibly per cast, but I feel thatís too strong]

Dwarfen Runepriests: Wizards from what Iíve seen usually pay +35pts for a wizard level, which gets them +1 to cast/dispel and an extra spell. To represent the reliability of using runes for spell casting, I thought maybe letting the player choose the Ďspellsí generated but at a slightly higher cost of 40pts per level. Also to start with the Runepriests will be costed similarly, or a little less, than Chaos Sorcerers because of their T4 and Gromril Armor.

Dwarf RuneLore: Iím still working on the spell list but it would be mostly augments taken from various Battle Magic, such as +toughness, +strength, maybe the bolt thrower spell from Beasts, and probably 5+ scaly skin from Metal as the signature spell. For a Lore Attribute I was thinking something similar to Tzeentchís (for every 6 rolled during casting, generate an extra power dice) but more synergized with dispelling. For every 6 rolled while dispelling, you get an extra power dice in the following magic phase.

Magic Resistance: I like the idea of a target that has magic resistance getting 1-3 free dispel dice to use against spells directly targeting them. Has anyone else used that and has that run into any balance problems? Perhaps getting 1-3 D3 bonus to dispel versus that unit. Helpful but not as overpowered.

I also think that Wizards should innately have some MR. Either MR1 on Lords, or MR2 Lords and MR1 Heroes . This would also make it so they and their unit also get some protection against Miscasts. A more powerful wizard should be able to more safely dissipate that disaster.

Anyways, let me know your thoughts and experiences with house ruled magic, or any part of this that would get out of hand with specific army rules. I will update later once Iíve come up with a list for my Dwarf Runelore.

N00B
04-12-2014, 21:36
If you look through the general Forum there is a Rules Development section where things like this generally go. You might get better luck there.

Galushi
04-12-2014, 22:08
Okay thanks! I skimmed the other topics and couldn't remember where I found similar stuff.

Galushi
04-12-2014, 22:14
Well this is the Fantasy general forum and I cannot find any rules development section, unless you mean just posting it in the Rules discussion forum. I was wary of posting it there since that seemed more for legal rule clarification.

kikibobo
04-12-2014, 22:55
Well until this gets moved/locked, I figure I might as well offer some feedback.

First off, my friend and I have tinkered with the idea of house ruling the magic phase. Sometimes its too unpredictable for our tastes.

I understand your desire to prevent pink horror spams to gain TONS of dispell dice, but I think you are gimping them too much by removing the possibility. I know it would be more complicated, but what about a progression based on wizard level. In other words lvl 4 generates on a 3+, 3 on a 4+, 2 on a 5+, and 1 on a 6+. Dispell dice would need to be broken up differently... maybe lvl 3-4 on a 5+ and 1-2 on a 6+? I think that for casting, only the channeling wizard may use the dice but the cap is only for winds dice. Dispell doesnt make sense though

I LOVE the idea and have it on my list of ideas to have every wizard know the signature spell. Not sure how it would play out though, worth a test, but I like it. Again, lvl 1 spamming (especially with the new 50% cap) is a bit of a problem for this idea as they would all get 2 spells and might overpower the magic phase. Maybe only lvl 3 and 4 auto get it?

I have a few other ideas but cannot add them atm. I will try to remember to revisit the post tomorrow or over the weekend and give you some more feedback. I have a few ideas for runepriests as well

Galushi
04-12-2014, 23:23
Thank you for your response!

I had considered that as an option for the channeling. Giving higher level Wizards better odds at channeling the bonus power dice. I may still go that route if rolling a 3+ per wizard level is too many bonus dice. I initially was planning on doing these channeling rules with a smaller base Winds of Magic pool (1d6 instead of 2d6) but I couldn't come up with a good matching Dispel Dice pool from that. In legal 8th edition, dispel pool is half the power pool at worst, one fewer then power pool at best. I figured leaving winds at 2d6 and just letting all wizards channel more dice would be okay since dispel would be able to generate on average half as many dice. One of my goals is to make the magic rules make a little more sense thematically, yet remain simple and easy to remember.

I dont think preventing Pink Horrors from generating dice would hurt them too much since other wizards would generate their own to use, freeing up the main winds of magic to support the pink horrors. My main concern would be spamming low cost wizard level units to funnel power dice to their main wizards, so restricting the channeled dice to their respective caster would be good for that. Again, this is kind of like 7th Edition magic and 8th mixed. Maybe non-characters only generate on 5+.

I could see the 50% Lord's and Heroes making this go a bit crazy, but not as much as End of Times magic rules does. Personally I'd be more afraid of Lore of Undeath in End of Times because of the ability to spam Summon Spells multiple times from a single wizard. You could have a single Lv4 Undeath lord spam casting the whole lore with the entire 4d6 power dice pool, since unless you dispell something they are allowed to recast even the same spell.

Aside from summoning spells, I think magic is decently balanced in the regard that if you take a lot of it, your army will be lacking in other areas.