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View Full Version : The new Tyranid goodies



thanoson
09-12-2014, 01:36
Gotta say these new units really help out that mediocre codex that came out. Is anyone else frothing at the thought of dropping a tervigon off in the backfield with a pod, creating a squad, using it's psi powers and still shooting? How about dropping in a couple squads of devourgants nearby as support? What do the naysayers think, do we have good options now?

Voss
09-12-2014, 01:39
Gotta say these new units really help out that mediocre codex that came out. Is anyone else frothing at the thought of dropping a tervigon off in the backfield with a pod, creating a squad, using it's psi powers and still shooting? How about dropping in a couple squads of devourgants nearby as support? What do the naysayers think, do we have good options now?

Nothing that wasn't present in the previous (and still poor) codex.

thanoson
09-12-2014, 01:54
So, muculoids are not a good option to you? Adding 3 more zoans to a squad or a Neurathrope to it isn't good? Drop pods with T5, W6 and 5 deathspitters that can move? Sporocyst? None of those are any better than what we already had?

Chumbalaya
09-12-2014, 03:06
Yeah, nids finally have some decent options. It only took a favorable edition change, new units and pay2win DLC formations.

Voss
09-12-2014, 04:39
So, muculoids are not a good option to you? Adding 3 more zoans to a squad or a Neurathrope to it isn't good? Drop pods with T5, W6 and 5 deathspitters that can move? Sporocyst? None of those are any better than what we already had?

Than what was present in the previous book before the round of nerfs and a summary execution of unmodeled units that have suddenly sprouted back up? No.

Deathspitters, for example, are rubbish. Drop pods are better cheap and plentiful- the point is to deliver something effective to the backfield, not bloat the shoddy transport.
The Malceptor is a pile of festering garbage. The toxicrene isn't bad, but I'd rather have un-nerfed Trygons back. Or going back even further, un-nerfed carnifexes.

Moar Zoanthropes has never been a particular need of mine.

Mucolids could be passable suicide squads I suppose. Point wise they're reasonable, but they're held back by the floating bomb rules (which are frankly poorly written and rubbish) and probably the most offensive packaging/pricing scheme I've seen in a long while.


But you asked what the naysayers thought, and that is what you got. The new stuff is a fake buff to an intentionally tanked version (current) of the already nerfed (previous) version of the codex. While plastic 'thropes are nice to have in existence, it would take a kidnapping and death threats to force me to play tyranids again.

thanoson
09-12-2014, 05:02
Than what was present in the previous book before the round of nerfs and a summary execution of unmodeled units that have suddenly sprouted back up? No.

Deathspitters, for example, are rubbish. Drop pods are better cheap and plentiful- the point is to deliver something effective to the backfield, not bloat the shoddy transport.
The Malceptor is a pile of festering garbage. The toxicrene isn't bad, but I'd rather have un-nerfed Trygons back. Or going back even further, un-nerfed carnifexes.

Moar Zoanthropes has never been a particular need of mine.

Mucolids could be passable suicide squads I suppose. Point wise they're reasonable, but they're held back by the floating bomb rules (which are frankly poorly written and rubbish) and probably the most offensive packaging/pricing scheme I've seen in a long while.


But you asked what the naysayers thought, and that is what you got. The new stuff is a fake buff to an intentionally tanked version (current) of the already nerfed (previous) version of the codex. While plastic 'thropes are nice to have in existence, it would take a kidnapping and death threats to force me to play tyranids again.

Ok. I get your point. But don't you think most of the codexii are getting toned down in their own way? Yes, I know that every codex has a break out star that out performs. Do we not have any shining units in our list? Your examples in Trygons and Carnies is an attack. One attack each. Carnies even got cheaper.

Commissar Merces
09-12-2014, 14:04
Nids have their teeth back, that's for sure. I've been play testing a ton of different lists against local tournament players (ATC's 3rd place team) and a few competitive guys who go up to Adepticon. So far, I have won two, lost two with the new units. I haven't quite unlocked the full potential of the list, but I think with a few tests, I'll be able to figure out a super competitive list that can go up against serpent spam on the other top lists.

Having said that, if you aren't planning to play on that kind of level, Tyranids can now match up against any army in a semi competitive setting without getting absolutely smashed. Previously, Tyranids had no delivery system for their dangerous units. Now, they do. Just stay away from Knight armies (wraith and imperial).

NagashLover
09-12-2014, 19:17
Gotta say these new units really help out that mediocre codex that came out. Is anyone else frothing at the thought of dropping a tervigon off in the backfield with a pod, creating a squad, using it's psi powers and still shooting? How about dropping in a couple squads of devourgants nearby as support? What do the naysayers think, do we have good options now?

Well the newest codex on day 1 was an improvement over the disaster of the last and I did/do well with it.

The new goodies allow for more options so that makes the codex even better and helps other players get the style of play they were used to from the previous dex.

That said issues I still have for Nids include:

Pyrovore is redundant regardless of how you adjust points or change stats. It failed at the concept stage, so it needs to be reworked.

Bimorph selection is still poor. Though not much changed from the last book when it comes to options the issue is I loved the days of stat tweaking from rippers to fexes. Sure it could cause opponents headaches having to show them your stat page but it allowed us to have something unique to the army and to tailor not specific units to roles but specific builds of said units to roles. It's still there in a sense in this dex but severely limited.

Points costs for certain units. Nothing huge but Trygon, Warrior prime and Genestealers could use for a drop in points (again nothing drastic just minor tweaks).

Repeating of stats...the Exocrine/Haruspex and the Crone/Harpy I feel should have had differentiated stats. An example, would it really have killed the model to give the Haruspex another point of weapon skill and 2 more base attacks?

The lictor is decent but I believe it's another model that needs to be reworked at the concept stage. As it stands they just threw everything+ the kitchen sink to try and make it stick.

Maleceptor...was a dropped ball.

I would have liked to see the venomthropes cloud apply some kind of active debuff when opponents are in range. Could be something as simple as subtracting the weapon skill of all non-tyranid models within the cloud by 1.

I would have preferred having all the units in one book rather than spread out.

Last issue I still have is I really feel that foot slogging Nids should move faster in general from gants to Hive Tyrants.

All just my opinion on the matter. To come back to it I would like to say I'm happy they included more options and still love playing with this codex much more than the last, but it still has some ways to go to working out some kinks.

Ozendorph
09-12-2014, 19:26
Out of curiosity, what's the problem with the Maleceptor? I think it's a cool looking critter, just wondering why it's universally (or seemingly so) viewed as trash.

Ghungo
09-12-2014, 20:12
lol at calling the current nid codex selections and formations poor. Barring necrons getting an eldar powered book I would completely shocked of nids were not placing in the top 5 of tournaments. I guess we will see during the LVO in a couple months how poor this codex truly is.

thanoson
10-12-2014, 01:14
lol at calling the current nid codex selections and formations poor. Barring necrons getting an eldar powered book I would completely shocked of nids were not placing in the top 5 of tournaments. I guess we will see during the LVO in a couple months how poor this codex truly is.

No, the problem a lot of folks had was the ommiting of unmade units and characters. Also, Losing biomancy as a psi power choice. Of the things that went missing, Pods and Doom of Malantai came back. I'm happy to have both back. The original loss of the Pods meant that we were footslogging into massed fire at a slow rate. Lack of armor saves and loss of eternal warrior makes that a hard task to do. Venomthropes help with this, but thats now a elite choice taken. The use of formations really did offset this, giving us a golden age of FMC's diving into units and smashing into vehicles. That is, until 7th edition made that Much harder to do. The change to assaults from soaring and Smash attacks has nuetered that aspect.

The pods are going to make a big difference in the scene.

harlekin
10-12-2014, 10:02
Out of curiosity, what's the problem with the Maleceptor? I think it's a cool looking critter, just wondering why it's universally (or seemingly so) viewed as trash.

As far as I understand, he is a pretty vulnerable (4+ save makes t vulnerabel to many different midstrength/ap weaponry, very big (dammit, it's as big as tyrannofex) psyker creature, whose basic power does not make up for it's cost. In general it's power sembles the Neurotrophe's, but requires a to hit roll and cann damage a certain unit just once per turn.Iit can use it three times per turn though, (on three different targets).
On the otherside, it's cc-abilities aren't that great either.

One could say it's totally overcosted. But I definitely agree with you, it looks cute :3.

TheBearminator
10-12-2014, 13:41
I'm just a bit depressed over the pod. Pods were to good as they were for the armies that could take them in my opinion. I salute gw for coming up with a pod that works differently, it's just so sad that they managed to make it twice as op. Capacity 20? Four death spitters? Six wounds? Sure, if it was T3. This is just ridiculous.

Ozendorph
10-12-2014, 17:08
As far as I understand, he is a pretty vulnerable (4+ save makes t vulnerabel to many different midstrength/ap weaponry, very big (dammit, it's as big as tyrannofex) psyker creature, whose basic power does not make up for it's cost. In general it's power sembles the Neurotrophe's, but requires a to hit roll and cann damage a certain unit just once per turn.Iit can use it three times per turn though, (on three different targets).
On the otherside, it's cc-abilities aren't that great either.

One could say it's totally overcosted. But I definitely agree with you, it looks cute :3.

Thanks for the info. I bought and built one as a gift for my brother, and I'm in the process of painting it. I really like the look of the bugger, but it sounds like the rules will need some tweaking for sure

Saunders
10-12-2014, 17:56
The toxicrene isn't bad, but I'd rather have un-nerfed Trygons back. Or going back even further, un-nerfed carnifexes.

I have a feeling that you'll find a reason to disparage anything the tyranids get.

MasterDecoy
10-12-2014, 17:59
As far as I understand, he is a pretty vulnerable (4+ save makes t vulnerabel to many different midstrength/ap weaponry, very big (dammit, it's as big as tyrannofex) psyker creature, whose basic power does not make up for it's cost. In general it's power sembles the Neurotrophe's, but requires a to hit roll and cann damage a certain unit just once per turn.Iit can use it three times per turn though, (on three different targets).
On the otherside, it's cc-abilities aren't that great either.

One could say it's totally overcosted. But I definitely agree with you, it looks cute :3.
I still maintain that if you miss the target doesn't suddenly stop being the target (thus rolling to hit is irrelevant)

Inquisitor Kallus
10-12-2014, 19:01
I have a feeling that you'll find a reason to disparage anything the tyranids get.

I get that same feeling from Voss too....


I think the nids are really characterful and have some decent stuff that looks fun to play with

Warlord Nazgred
10-12-2014, 22:26
I like the look of the bugs especially what how we could use the pods. For me the only annoying thing is that our rules are all over the place a codex, dataslates and a campaign book that sold out before I could even think about buying it. It would be nice to think we might get a new codex within the near future just to bring everything together in one place, also does anyone know if there are any plans to print SoB Leviathan in paperback version like they're doing for end of times?

druchii
10-12-2014, 22:49
I'm actually mad at the new Tyranid releases.

I intentionally started playing them because they suck and everyone knows they suck. That way I can take a step back, make a list and have fun with it. Now these new releases are actually making 'nids playable! The gall of GW to ruin my plan to play a terrible army and win with it!

Now we get hard fixes for pretty much everything that was wrong with the book before. Pods, zoans, the doom, toxicrene and spores are all pretty awesome (I do feel for that poor maleceptor).

d

The bearded one
10-12-2014, 23:04
I'm just a bit depressed over the pod. Pods were to good as they were for the armies that could take them in my opinion. I salute gw for coming up with a pod that works differently, it's just so sad that they managed to make it twice as op. Capacity 20? Four death spitters? Six wounds? Sure, if it was T3. This is just ridiculous.

Five death spitters.

I don't see how it's OP though. The durability and shooting is nifty but it comes at a pointcost. And if it had a modelcapacity like that of droppods, that'd have just been silly for tyranids. That thing would be almost twice as expensive as the 10-man gaunt unit that would fit in it, who would barely survive an overwatch.

I wouldn't be surprised if most tyranid players would rather have have a 25pt pod that shrivveled and died after landing.

itcamefromthedeep
11-12-2014, 22:48
I wouldn't be surprised if most tyranid players would rather have have a 25pt pod that shrivveled and died after landing.Why not both?

---

What are the big nasty lists these days? Do any new Tyranid builds do well against them? I just don't have enough experience with the game these days to tell.

insectum7
12-12-2014, 00:01
A local fella has a pretty effective list with a Heirodule, a couple FW Venomthrope-ish-but-bigger-and-tougher models, two Flyrants and some other stuff. He's been making a mess out of a lot of opponents. The army winds up deploying almost entirely with a 2+ cover save, and it's a real pain to deal with. I'm considering using some Legion of the Damned to counter the big cover saves, but I haven't convinced myself that it's necessary yet. So far I've only fought against it once.

Lorcryst
13-12-2014, 05:03
A couple of good news for the doomsayers :

Shield of Baal : Leviathan is now available as a softback.

You can find the six dataslates for the new Tyranid beasties FOR FREE on the Black Library website.

LordOfTheFuzz
14-12-2014, 18:29
You can find the six dataslates for the new Tyranid beasties FOR FREE on the Black Library website.

Link please?

Voss
14-12-2014, 18:59
I have a feeling that you'll find a reason to disparage anything the tyranids get.

Only the bad stuff and the unnecessary nerfs, most of which happened to sell the next big kit.

itcamefromthedeep
14-12-2014, 20:33
Link please?
Allow me: http://bit.ly/13nHvMo

Angelwing
15-12-2014, 12:16
Link please?

here you go
(http://www.blacklibrary.com/Home/free-to-download.html)

Commissar Merces
15-12-2014, 12:48
Why not both?

---

What are the big nasty lists these days? Do any new Tyranid builds do well against them? I just don't have enough experience with the game these days to tell.

I posted this elsewhere, but figured it belonged here as well as a response to your question. I play a lot of competitive people (ATC, Adepticon, Stones River etc.) and so far I am 50-50 against them with the new tyranids, though both victories were crushing ones and the losses were a combined 4 points. Not bad considering all my previous games with the "new" tyranid codex were horrible losses.

The main competitive lists here are grey knights with assassin allies, all mech IG with tons of wyverns and a knight ally, Tau shenanigans with riptides, and eldar wraightknight/wraithguard spam. This doesn't include serpent spam, as no one here plays it on a regular basis.

I've crushed the net Tau lists twice and lost to Wraith spam and the IG list. I feel, however, with a little more luck and better tactical deployment, I could've done a lot better against these armies.

itcamefromthedeep
15-12-2014, 15:03
Congratulations on doing so well.

Do competitive lists tend to restrict Battleforged somewhat. "Only two detachments and only one CAD" or something like that?

Commissar Merces
15-12-2014, 17:20
Congratulations on doing so well.

Do competitive lists tend to restrict Battleforged somewhat. "Only two detachments and only one CAD" or something like that?

Battle Forged only, allies allowed.

The most competitive builds I am fielding include 2 flyrants (one with fighter ace) 2x4 zoanthropes in pods (+1 neurothrope) 2xmawlocs. From there, I am really experimenting with a lot of different units. Deep striking tervigons and tyrannofexes are good, but I am really struggling to find a troops choice that works well with the rest of the army. I've tried tervigon termigants. Thinking about trying horms and deep striking rippers.

thanoson
15-12-2014, 21:28
I really wish Flyrants would disappear from the codex. Now that we have pods, they are not needed as much to get Synapse and SITW across the table as much. Really, I'm wishing flyers and FMC's be toned down some. I fought 4 flyrants on sat of course all armed with Brainleech. That was a stupid list.

Shadeseraph
15-12-2014, 21:51
I really wish Flyrants would disappear from the codex. Now that we have pods, they are not needed as much to get Synapse and SITW across the table as much. Really, I'm wishing flyers and FMC's be toned down some. I fought 4 flyrants on sat of course all armed with Brainleech. That was a stupid list.

I loved the Skytyrant swarm formation. It allowed you to take a close combat flyrant who has a bit more than a snoball's chance in hell to get into close combat, and which is actually reasonably mobile.

itcamefromthedeep
15-12-2014, 22:51
Flyrants shouldn't disappear from the codex. They should just be priced fairly for what they do. Like everything else.

The price of wings relative to the base price of the model has never been correct in any edition, for any army. The 5e teleporter on a Dreadknight was close, and wings on a 5e Flyrant were also close, but neither was expensive enough and for some reason GW decided to go the other way and dramatically reduce the price rather than pushing it up.

Bring wings. All the time.

Commissar Merces
15-12-2014, 23:06
I really wish Flyrants would disappear from the codex. Now that we have pods, they are not needed as much to get Synapse and SITW across the table as much. Really, I'm wishing flyers and FMC's be toned down some. I fought 4 flyrants on sat of course all armed with Brainleech. That was a stupid list.

I'll stop bringing Flyrants (as will other people) when a 2+ save tyrant with a 5++ comes along. Heck, I would even take a walking tyrant in a pod as long as I can take Tyrant Guard. Even better, give me access to biomancy again.

Right now, however, we don't have these options available to us. Walking Tyrants die too quickly and too easily on foot.

Nubl0
15-12-2014, 23:46
I'll bring back my walking tyrant when he's at least half as durable as an SM chapter master. Or perhaps more than 4 wounds.

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 09:08
Also for wings being costed properly then you need to help out certain mcs ie for princes remove slow and purposeful from daemon of nurgle

druchii
16-12-2014, 15:56
Also for wings being costed properly then you need to help out certain mcs ie for princes remove slow and purposeful from daemon of nurgle

No. Way.

Nurgle princes get a guaranteed 2+ cover save, SNP is a pittance for their amazing durability.

d

itcamefromthedeep
16-12-2014, 19:06
That's the point, druchii. If SNP is a pittance on a walking version, how much worse it when the model doesn't much care because it can fly?

Presumbably the good Warsmith was suggesting that wings be priced differently for Nurgle princes to represent the benefit of bypassing SNP, or failing that trade SNP for a more universally applicable drawback.

---

There seems to be a vicious feedback loop where troops that are inappropriately powerful become popular, then emblematic as a result, then get disproportionate attention in supplements as a result. It's the only thing I can see to explain the proliferation of goodies specifically aimed at winged Hive Tyrants.

druchii
16-12-2014, 20:52
That's the point, druchii. If SNP is a pittance on a walking version, how much worse it when the model doesn't much care because it can fly?

Presumbably the good Warsmith was suggesting that wings be priced differently for Nurgle princes to represent the benefit of bypassing SNP, or failing that trade SNP for a more universally applicable drawback.

I think SNP is pretty universally prohibitive for all sorts of DPs. Still prohibits a flying nurgle dp from running the same as a walking one.

d

thanoson
17-12-2014, 00:44
SNP has put me on the bad end of a battlecannon many times after a crazy deep strike. Nothing like losing half of your plaguebearers in one shot.