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Mage
09-12-2014, 07:26
Hi everyone,

Have played against Ogres with a reguldar opponent of mine but never played with them. I'm interested in starting them, but would like to now some basics, mainly:

(1) Best first purchases
(2) Which models are good to use
(3) Rough build ideas
(4) Models to avoid due to material or bulk
(5) Alternative conversion ideas for stuff for finecast

So far I am the proud owner of a hunter and two sabretusks. I think two battalions are a good place to start. I like the look of the Stonehorn kit too, and the idea of Firebellies seems pretty cool to me. Any tips would help.

boli
09-12-2014, 08:28
3 battalions, 2 mournfang cav boxes, 2 sabertooth boxes.

And then buy your toys (Such as ironblasters and stone horns ) That pretty much sorts out most combinations of ogre forces for the standard battle size.


Although this is where my knowledge falls down as I have only ever fought them or seen them in YouTube reports but the above purchase covers all aspects of ogre armies I've seen.

jtrowell
09-12-2014, 08:36
For Maneaters, don't hesitate to use your bits box to use to convert your owns using normal ogres bodies.

Also, know that all choices in the army are at least decent, yes even the yethees, it's just that some of them are in competition with the others.

So if you don't plan to win at all price and just want a fun game, while still feeling that you have a good army, just don't abuse the big killers and you will be fine.

In my own army, I don't even use the canon (I prefer the scraplauncher ^_^), and I never have more than one unit of 4 mournfangs, most often just one unit of 2 on the flank

Metacarpi
09-12-2014, 09:04
Battalions are great, so grab a couple of those.

2 boxes of Mournfang will serve you well, I tend to run a single unit of 3.

Grab a load of 20mm bases - the Ogre sprues in the Battalions have loads of Gnoblars on them, with the bases you can make up a few Gnoblar Trapper units.

Firebellies are pretty good - I like to give mine the I10 item (Gold Sigil Sword?) because when the unit he's in gets into CC, an I10 breath weapon attack always helps kick things off!

You'll want a Bruiser to be your BSB (Ogres have mediocre Ld, so this is VITAL in my experience) and use either a Butcher or a Slaughtermaster as your caster, depending on your points. The Slaughtermaster is REALLY good, Lore of The Great Maw has some great buffs that really help boost your stats (+1S, +1T, Regen etc).

Best bit about Ogres is that all the Ogre bits are interchangeable between the kits, so it's really easy to kitbash some characters out of your bits!

As for what to avoid, I've never fielded Yhetees, or any of the named characters. Hunters aren't really great either, unless you're looking for a way to get a third Stonehorn in 2500 ;)

Mage
09-12-2014, 17:59
@ Boli

Thanks for the shopping list :) By 'That pretty much sorts out most combinations of ogre forces for the standard battle size', I haven't played in some time, so what are 'most combinations', roughly :)


@ jtrowell

Yeah I might ebay some older metal ones as I have no faith in finecast, but I will use Maneaters as a conversion project, for fun.

Regarding choices, that's good I didn't realise it. Yethees aren't my favourite models though. I do have some old Rackham metal wolfen I could use instead.

I don't want to win at all price, but I want to have a fighting chance against power gamers, who are common place in the tournament scene. Not to fight fire with fire, but to be able to play on a level playing field. What are the big killers to not be abused? Bare in mind when Daemons were at their worst in the previous army book during 7th edition I did play a balanced list and knew what game breaking combos were, I simply chose not to use them.

Is the cannon good, or the scraplauncher?

How good are the Mournfangs and what are good unit builds, numbers and tactics? I'm not asking for a 4 page essay, more a brief explanation.


@ Metacarpi

Battalions do seem great, I'll get them one at a time. So mournfangs seem good from what people are saying :)

Bases... check.

I like the Firebelly model but am afraid of finecast, like most people. Thanks for the combo idea.

I've been eyeing up charactrers on ebay, thanks for the tips.

I already have a hunter so will use one.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
09-12-2014, 18:21
I play a lot of Ogres, and they all seem to have a lot of similarities:

1) Always a big unit of Ironguts with Banner of Discipline housing the general. Also frequently housing the BSB, and a firebelly with the Hellheart.

2) At least a couple units of leadbelchers. The really nasty armies I've played had two units of 6, but everyone has at least 4.

3) At least one ironblaster, often two

4) Two sabretusks.



From there there's a fair amount of diversity. Lots of people have mournfang (always units of 4), but often times I'll see two units of 4. Some run two ironblasters, while others trade the second out for a stonehorn. Lots of people are into maneaters (brace of pistols in the front, great weapon in the back).

ArtificerArmour
09-12-2014, 18:27
Also never put your sabre tusks within 8in of any of your units not within BSB range!

Mage
09-12-2014, 21:13
@ PRND

That's a mouthful of a name lol.

(1) I'll have to check up what the banner does but I have the rulebook handy. Is this the 'gut star' I've heard about.
(2) I joked with a friend about doing an army of lead belchers. He laughed and said it would either win or blow itself up turn one.
(3) Please expand on how good the ironblaster is please.
(4) The cat things that come with a hunter? Got 2.

Hm. So tell me more about Mournfangs please, how good are they? Don't have the army book yet and haven't played against this version of ogres yet.

@ ArtificerArmour

Why is that :)

Scammel
09-12-2014, 21:47
(1) I'll have to check up what the banner does but I have the rulebook handy. Is this the 'gut star' I've heard about.
(2) I joked with a friend about doing an army of lead belchers. He laughed and said it would either win or blow itself up turn one.
(3) Please expand on how good the ironblaster is please.
(4) The cat things that come with a hunter? Got 2.

Hm. So tell me more about Mournfangs please, how good are they? Don't have the army book yet and haven't played against this version of ogres yet.

1: The Standard of Discipline grants +1 Ld but stops the unit from using the General's Ld (unless he's in the unit). In the context of most Ogre lists, this bumps a Ld8 Slaughtermaster to that magical Ld9, which Ogres love.

2: Your friend is thinking of the old Leadbelchers, which were in contention for the worst unit in the game seeing as how they could only fire every other turn and had disastrous misfire consequences. The new ones are much better and there's no mechanic for them backfiring, but they do compete with Maneaters and Mournfangs.

3: The Ironblaster is one of the best units in the game. A pair will quite reliably, on turn one, use their movement to draw a bead on the nastiest single model in the enemy army and make it not there.

4: Good, they're fantastic. You probably don't desperately need a 3rd, though.

Mournfangs are in contention for the best anti-infantry unit in the game. Whilst their average WS, good-yet-not-fantastic S and reliance on impact hits may see them struggle against cavalry and other tough, mobile units, they put out D3 impact hits, 7 attacks and 1 stomp each. The pack the best saves in the army and can take the Dragonhide Banner, which allows them to re-roll any 1s in CC on the turn they charge (INCLUDING on their 2+ armour save).

Somewhat unusually, Sabretusks cause panic in friendly units and are both fragile and cowardly. With Ogre Ld being what it is, a misplaced 'Tusk can quite literally see your units of 10-foot killing machines sent packing by a mewling cat.

NemoSD
09-12-2014, 23:40
There are no real bad units in Ogres. We do need to keep leadership in mind, but we are better off in that department then a few other armies, just we don't have access to easy hordes to make up for it. BSB help. With the new point cap, we can easily get a SM and Tyrant now, which helps greatly, making the need for a bruiser BSB less vital.

Firebellies make great Hellheart carriers because they are pretty nasty, non-magic wise, on their own, and can allow you to keep a SM a little further back, or a Butcher, were the Maw Lore can do its job a little better.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
10-12-2014, 01:52
@ PRND

That's a mouthful of a name lol.

(1) I'll have to check up what the banner does but I have the rulebook handy. Is this the 'gut star' I've heard about.
(2) I joked with a friend about doing an army of lead belchers. He laughed and said it would either win or blow itself up turn one.
(3) Please expand on how good the ironblaster is please.
(4) The cat things that come with a hunter? Got 2.

Hm. So tell me more about Mournfangs please, how good are they? Don't have the army book yet and haven't played against this version of ogres yet.

@ ArtificerArmour

Why is that :)

Haha...yes it is.

Scammel replied very well above so I won't retread the same ground. What I will say, though, is that Ogres suffer somewhat from being a "low LD army." As a result both the general and the BSB are very important...which is why they tend to be protected in a "gutstar." And by "tend to" I mean "almost always," since it's actually pretty rare these days to NOT see an Ogre army running a big brick of ironguts filled with characters. Mostly because "big" is relative in terms of ogres at 50 points a pop. Even just 8 ironguts with a couple characters is pushing close to 1,000 points.

The other (big) reason for the gutstar is, as I said, the banner of discipline. Because of how often leadership is modified (losing combats, panic checks from hellcannons/screaming scull catapults, doom & darkness or iceshard blizzard) it's not enough to consider how solid your base leadership is but what happens when it gets knocked down a few points. LD8 is alright, but LD7 or LD6 is in danger territory. I.e. danger of your 1,000 point irongut deathstar running off the board because someone shot your cat off the board with trueflight arrows, or because you rolled poorly in a round of combat and lost by a musician. Thus LD9 or LD10 are preferable. But since getting higher leadership means you have to bring a Tyrant, which is often points people don't want to spend.

Instead you could just buy a Slaughtermaster, who is your mandatory level 4 wizard (really important, due to the way magic works), and put him in a unit with the Banner of Discipline. The banner gives his unit +1 leadership, which gives him +1 leadership, which means his entire leadership bubble is at +1 leadership, all thanks to the FAQ. It's weird...but legit. So for a measly 15 points you can upgrade your general from LD8 (dangerzone) to LD9 (acceptable).


As for mournfang...yeah they're awesome. Durable at 2+ T4 3W and can't be stomped. They won't take very many wounds back, and with lots of S4/5 attacks they're likely to do enough wounds to win combat. They might not win right away, but they'll get there eventually. Makes them a really good flanking force too, since they're not likely to lose combats and require the general/bsb for leadership checks.


Edit: Should also say that, although Ogres are an awesome army on paper, their biggest weakness is that they're really predictable. They suffer from the same problems as Warriors of Chaos, in that they'll run ramshod over new players but experienced players will know their tricks and shut them down. That's why you'll tend to see things like Leadbelchers, Maneaters, and Ironblasters in competitive armies as they allow you to have a somewhat more flexible approach than the straight "push it across the table to victory" that you get with just stonehorns, mournfang, and a gutstar.

That said, if you're new to the game there's really no reason to be concerned about that. Ogres are a cheap army to expand given how low their model count is. What you have on the board with them also matters much less than how well you wield it. So build the army you want, and learn how to win games with it after :)

boli
10-12-2014, 08:41
@ Boli

Thanks for the shopping list :) By 'That pretty much sorts out most combinations of ogre forces for the standard battle size', I haven't played in some time, so what are 'most combinations', roughly :)


2.4-5k armies are what people call "standard" and I've seen things like:

3 Sabretusk being dropped in single units of 1 at the rear to force opponents deployment
2 units of 2 sabretusk to warmachine hunt on each flank
Single Sabretusks being used singularly to redirect charges and frenzy bait.

4 Mournfang in a killer unit with that cool banner
2 units of 2 mournfang in min units to attack in the flanks.
1 unit of 3 mournfang to secure a flank

18 Ogres in a Horde
2 - 3 units of 6-9 Ogres to play "MSU"

18 Ironguts in a Horde
2 - 3 units of 6-9 Ironguts to play "MSU"
unit of 6 Ironguts and 3 Characters


12 Leadbeltchers
3 units of 4 for absolute carnage.
games over 3k - 4 units of 3.


So if you get the above "shopping list" and maybe a spare box of Ogres and/or Ironguts to make spare command options/create Tyrant characters most Ogre battle-lines I've seen will be buildable and you can concentrate on your "fun toys" after that (such as Stonehorns, butchers, and Ironblasters) :)

With toys and characters you'll end up with a total force of around 4-5k but you'll have the flexibility to build any "standard" Ogre list I have seen. Not saying you shoudl go out and buy exactly that - but that is a good benchmark to build your force around.

Mage
10-12-2014, 15:01
That's a lot of information to process, I really need an army book to make a few lists now.

I love the firebelly model, but I have no faith in finecast these days. Might need to come up with an alternative...

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
11-12-2014, 17:59
That's a lot of information to process, I really need an army book to make a few lists now.

I love the firebelly model, but I have no faith in finecast these days. Might need to come up with an alternative...

Finecast has gotten a lot better these days. I haven't had a bad finecast model in a while. A little bit of liquid greenstuff cleans up any bubbles and they're way nicer to work with than metal models. Metal is a *********** nightmare to convert. The only issue with finecast that I still have is fragility.

SexualPanda
11-12-2014, 18:32
The firebelly fine cast model is fine. It will take about 20 minutes of work, but it's lightweight and you will be glad it's not pewter.

Mage
11-12-2014, 23:18
@ PRND - Hmmmm.... I'll take a chance on the Firebelly so. At some point. He is not high on my priority list. Please enlighten me as to how it has improved :) I haven't been in the loop lately with this stuff.

@ SP - I just read your username. I laughed. Then I realise you have a lot of other pandas out there to help. Anyhow, I digress. Ahem. Fair enough on the Firebelly.

Aside, I have ebayed ( in metal, I like the older metal if I can get it :) ):

> A Tyrant (guy with sword and hammer)
> Paymaster Maneater
> Slaughtermaster/butcher
> 6 Bulls (I found these in my old bedroom at my parents house)
> Army book (ebayed this for a fair bit less than retail! Huzzah! Might need to run a UV light over it...)

So...

QUESTION: How should I equip the bulls? Iron fists and hand weapons?

Scammel
11-12-2014, 23:22
Ironfists are a pittance for a significantly improved save in CC, whilst AHW only benefit the (typically quite narrow) front rank.

Mage
11-12-2014, 23:30
Pittance, as in a tuppence? Excellent. Ironfists are the way to go then...

SuperHappyTime
12-12-2014, 04:18
Mage,

Considering how involved in this thread you are, I can tell you want to get off on the right foot with Ogres.

My advice is the following:
-Find a friend, or multiple friends.
-Start by buying the battalion box, and the must-have Hero (The Hero that will be in every list you ever build)
-Play games at an escalation league pace (Adding 500 points monthly)
-Join the Ogre Kingdoms forum and get advice on how to better your list.

I guarantee you will truly learn how to efficiently play Ogres.

NemoSD
12-12-2014, 07:43
Mage,

Considering how involved in this thread you are, I can tell you want to get off on the right foot with Ogres.

My advice is the following:
-Find a friend, or multiple friends.
-Start by buying the battalion box, and the must-have Hero (The Hero that will be in every list you ever build)
-Play games at an escalation league pace (Adding 500 points monthly)
-Join the Ogre Kingdoms forum and get advice on how to better your list.

I guarantee you will truly learn how to efficiently play Ogres.

Ok Forum is one of the best out there to boot...

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php

Bring snacks to avoid being eaten :-p

Mage
12-12-2014, 09:06
Ah I'll check that out so. Probably not today as I'm really busy. Maybe later today...

Minigiant
12-12-2014, 10:52
Ok Forum is one of the best out there to boot...

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php

Bring snacks to avoid being eaten :-p

I will vouch for that. I am also a member there so may see you there

Mage
13-12-2014, 14:49
Signed up last night :)

Greyshadow
16-12-2014, 06:59
Skorag welcomes you to the tribe!

I recommend a Slaghtermaster as a general - although you miss the point of leadership you get a wizard and a strong fighter all in one. Lore of the Great Maw is essential too.