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allectius
09-12-2014, 16:06
Heey all,

Was just checking the forge world website and found out that the Tamurkhan book is not going to be reprinted and fewer than 250 books are in stock. It's not a big surprise after they discontinued Monstrous Arcanum but still a shock for all those chaos dwarf players out there.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer#&panel1-1
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Wa...CHAOS.html (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer-Forge-Books/TAMURKHAN-THE-THRONE-OF-CHAOS.html)

MiyamatoMusashi
09-12-2014, 16:23
"Warhammer Forge isn't dead, it's just resting!"

Uh-huh.

warlordbob
09-12-2014, 16:27
We never got a warning like this about Monstrous Arcanum, so at least they announced it this time round. Still a shame that half the models won't sell now without any rules available in any form.

BUB
09-12-2014, 16:36
Oh well no great loss IMO they do some lovely mini's BUT their rules writing is awful and the Chaos Dwarf list was barely an army at all! 2 blocks and a few Warmachines ZZZZZZZZZZZ

MiyamatoMusashi
09-12-2014, 16:38
We never got a warning like this about Monstrous Arcanum, so at least they announced it this time round. Still a shame that half the models won't sell now without any rules available in any form.

One wonders whether the models will gradually disappear too. Not much point in them selling models you can't get rules for.

Foulacy
09-12-2014, 16:39
So glad I didn't buy any chaos dwarfs now!

Darnok
09-12-2014, 16:45
What a shame. It is a great book, and I'm really happy to own it. But at least they give a warning this time.

MiyamatoMusashi
09-12-2014, 16:57
What a shame. It is a great book, and I'm really happy to own it. But at least they give a warning this time.

True on both counts. Great book, and they should be applauded for giving the warning.

Hopefully they'll give a warning if the same thing happens to the models, too.

forseer of fates
09-12-2014, 17:21
It was always going to happen, if your not a space marines gw cares not.

T400
09-12-2014, 18:03
Thanks, I've wanted to own this book for a long time, forced as it may be.

Brother Dimetrius
09-12-2014, 18:20
My panicked buying of a copy after the Monstrous Arcanum thing happened was justified then! Really do hope they pick this up again at some point.

Darnok
09-12-2014, 18:28
Really do hope they pick this up again at some point.

"It will not be reprinted" does not support this sadly. I don't think there will be anything at all coming from Warhammer Forge in the future...

baneful
09-12-2014, 18:31
Glad I have my copy and chaos dwarf army. Pity that it's going this way though.

Memnos
09-12-2014, 18:52
This might herald some news. Could be the world changes so radically that it's irrelevant.
Or Chaos Dwarfs were successful enough to warrant their own book.

felimid
09-12-2014, 19:35
Chances of eventually seeing Blackfire Pass just hit 0

:-(

Skywave
09-12-2014, 19:36
Told a friend this weekend that he should buy the book sooner rather than later since FW is clearly shutting down Warhammer Forge (despite their claim). He went and bougt it not long after, so I guess the timing was perfect!

Coraxis
09-12-2014, 21:34
At least they have warned this time about Tamurkhan. They could have done exactly that with Monstrous Arcanum but it doesn't matter anymore. It seems that Warhammer Forge is dead and buried already. Hope that I can get the money to buy the few things I want from them, after that... I think I won't buy from them anymore. It's not just that they've stopped supporting Warhammer Forge line, but they lied about it too. Now even their Warhammer 40k line is getting fewer and fewer releases...now it's all Heresy, Heresy and Heresy. And hell I like Heresy as much as anyone, but I want something else, not just Space Marines and their puny human auxilia. It's not the problem of the WHF line either, they just didn't know how to sell that line properly, and now we get nothing. And this Heresy crazyness is going to last as much as they want. If they can't release enough products with the established Heresy background they already have, they will keep adding new stuff indefinitely until people get bored of the same thing over and over again. So that's it, if you don't like Space Marines, or 40k, or want something other than that, you're not the kind of guy FW wants money from. Same thing for BL I'm afraid.

Lastavenger
09-12-2014, 21:44
All I can think now is poor guy Tenebre, whose huge army got screwed by BTP. Yes, you (and he) can still play CD, but it feels like stab in back after FW promises. Poor stunties.

MiyamatoMusashi
09-12-2014, 22:07
Speaking as someone with about 4000 points of Chaos Dwarfs: it was obviously only a matter of time. Anyone who bought them and is surprised by this, well, maybe they're not aware of GW's history with CDs, in which case fair enough; but otherwise, they really shouldn't be surprised. It was always going to happen.

Philhelm
09-12-2014, 22:25
Chances of eventually seeing Blackfire Pass just hit 0

:-(

That's not entirely accurate; it would be more like a limit graph in which the curve infinitely approaches 0 but doesn't quite ever get there.

felimid
10-12-2014, 11:27
That's not entirely accurate; it would be more like a limit graph in which the curve infinitely approaches 0 but doesn't quite ever get there.

Ok, point taken. The curve just hit a bump and dropped even closer to 0.

Still, I do remember being very excited when Blackfire Pass was first mentioned especially with the quality of the two fantasy books that Forgeworld had already released.

On a slight tangent, I wonder if the development of Smaug has had anything to do with Warhammer Forge all but disappearing. The model seems to have been cast by FW and the preparation guidelines are the same as FW models. Any ideas who sculpted the huge dragon?

tneva82
10-12-2014, 11:36
All I can think now is poor guy Tenebre, whose huge army got screwed by BTP. Yes, you (and he) can still play CD, but it feels like stab in back after FW promises. Poor stunties.

That's the problem with chaos dwarves. They were never exactly most stable army to have around as this could happen.

And for those saying "rules still are there so you can use them". Well yes but...

a) how large army list it is? Wouldn't there have been room for new additions?
b) I hear not all models are even available in miniatures. Odds are now damn high they won't be ever released
c) eventually rules starts to be very unplayable after edition change or two. Wanna fancy playing with 5th ed army books in 8th edition? Or even 6th? Even if you somehow can make it work(without official faqs) eventually you are going to be behind the power curve.

Poor CD players :( Not exactly cheapest army to collect even...

Aryllon
10-12-2014, 12:06
I might go buy the book, plus a few models for painting & display purposes.

The sculpts are fantastic, shame about the lack of Hobgoblins but plastic gobbos are a fair proxy.

I'm trying to think of alternate ways to use the miniatures. Surely you would get away with using the CDs with shields as CWs, then the Daemonsmiths count-as sorcerors, but I don't know what else.

Maybe it's time to do armies on parade...

Giankllr
10-12-2014, 13:16
Aw how cool, another FW fantasy book killed with a bolter shot :( Pew pew !

Coraxis
10-12-2014, 13:26
Ok, point taken. The curve just hit a bump and dropped even closer to 0.

Still, I do remember being very excited when Blackfire Pass was first mentioned especially with the quality of the two fantasy books that Forgeworld had already released.

On a slight tangent, I wonder if the development of Smaug has had anything to do with Warhammer Forge all but disappearing. The model seems to have been cast by FW and the preparation guidelines are the same as FW models. Any ideas who sculpted the huge dragon?

Michael Perry https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.609614605827316.1073741843.446712558784189&type=1

Aéquitas
10-12-2014, 15:02
Funny that it's all doom and gloom here. Has any of you guys considered that the reason they are not re-printing Tamurkhan is because the content will be obsolete when 9th edition hits in a few months? Next to that they would also be re-printing a book that has a few models in it that are not being produced anymore.
From a business perspective I think it makes perfect sence not to re-print the book especially with 250 currently in stock which should last till 9th edition.

There is a chance that they will keep the Chaos Dwarves line intact and just release a small armybook or armylist for just chaos dwarves and nothing else in it when 9th edition hits. They know that it is still a decent seller and the moulds are fine so why not keep the thing going?

MiyamatoMusashi
10-12-2014, 16:01
Cynicism and - more importantly - experience suggests otherwise.

Besides: you think FW are going to stop selling Tamurkhan as it will be invalidated for 9th Edition, while GW are still selling the rulebook, the boxed set, and all army books, which would all presumably be similarly invalidated? Doesn't seem very likely, does it?

Aéquitas
10-12-2014, 17:09
Cynicism and - more importantly - experience suggests otherwise.

Besides: you think FW are going to stop selling Tamurkhan as it will be invalidated for 9th Edition, while GW are still selling the rulebook, the boxed set, and all army books, which would all presumably be similarly invalidated? Doesn't seem very likely, does it?

Except that Forgeworlds Chaos Dwarves are much more niche then GW's normal armybooks. GW also probably has lots and lots more stock of their armybooks and don't need to do a another print run. I doubt GW would do more print runs and make more island of blood sets at this time. There is so much stock left that it simply isn't an issue.

Just ask yourself the question wouldn't you do the same thing if you were in Forgeworlds Shoes? Would you really do another printing run of a book who's main hero doesn't even have a model anymore? Wouldn't it be much easier to do a different book or pdf in the near future and try to sell all the remaining stock of books you still have?

Giankllr
10-12-2014, 17:34
But Tamurkhan's model is no more avaible just because FW itself decided to make more room for pew pew marines and discontinued it !

simonbeard
10-12-2014, 17:39
Unfortunately, we received confirmation that Forge World were no longer working on any new Warhammer Fantasy projects after finishing the Dread Saurian (including dropping half finished projects — like Black Fire Pass, and we may never see the finished K'Daai Destroyer either). They said that it wasn't reasonable to put resources to Warhammer Forge when Horus Heresy was selling so well, and Warhammer Forge just wasn't pulling its weight. We got this news from Forge World directly.

They did say that if the community ever gave them a financial reason to start back up on Warhammer Forge (i.e. a huge rush to buy up the rest of their stock of fantasy dolls), they'd think about it. But, it's fairly obvious that never happened.

Coraxis
10-12-2014, 18:32
Unfortunately, we received confirmation that Forge World were no longer working on any new Warhammer Fantasy projects after finishing the Dread Saurian (including dropping half finished projects — like Black Fire Pass, and we may never see the finished K'Daai Destroyer either). They said that it wasn't reasonable to put resources to Warhammer Forge when Horus Heresy was selling so well, and Warhammer Forge just wasn't pulling its weight. We got this news from Forge World directly.

They did say that if the community ever gave them a financial reason to start back up on Warhammer Forge (i.e. a huge rush to buy up the rest of their stock of fantasy dolls), they'd think about it. But, it's fairly obvious that never happened.

This bothers me particularly. I mean if Horus Heresy is selling so well and WHF is not, why isn't reasonable to put more resources on WHF?? Horus Heresy is selling on its own, it doesn't need that extra help from FW except for room issue in their stock. Instead they could both keep HH selling well as it was and put resources on WHF to improve those sales too. You can say: Yes but then the HH releases would have slowed.And I say: So what?? People wouldn't have enough Dreadnought variations at a month? Or enough shoulder pads? They have to wait an extra month? I don't think their sales will decrease that much, given how many SM they need to form a basic unit. And before they released stuff like legion specific shoulder pads and some specific units, people were buying from them other Heresy stuff and converting their own units that way. How many people buy a Legion Glaive when they already have a Fellblade? Is the difference in sales that much for releasing a new almost equal model?? Don't know, but don't think so.

And I'm not asking for them to stop all their HH stuff to do WHF stuff, but c'mon, one release each month? or each two months or so? A rulebook once a year?? FW's HH has a bunch of releases at a month, every month, for a whole year. And most of those release are easy to do things, like changing a couple of details in a tank. WHF could use some love too, and maybe that way people would be interested in that line. But if they just release new stuff every 5 years or so, or doesn't release at all, who is gonna buy their WHF models? Their potential customers already have those models or are not interested in them, if they don't release something new (and you know...useful) people will not support that line. Of course is easier to release some weapon packs than use imagination and hard work to create new WHF models...but stop supporting the line as they are clearly doing? Without a single Fantasy release since the Dread Saurian?

And BL is going the same way, just look at their Advent Calendar...not a single WHF short story. Then there's the claim that WH40K and HH sells more than WHF, that those lines have more followers than the last. But of course it is that way, because those two lines get all the support and promotion. People buy what they see, and WHF isn't particurarly attractive, because GW and FW don't make it attractive. When they've done it, it has been a success

Voss
10-12-2014, 18:43
This bothers me particularly. I mean if Horus Heresy is selling so well and WHF is not, why isn't reasonable to put more resources on WHF??
Basic Maths?
If investing 10 in HH yields 20, and investing 10 in WHF yields 11*, then... well. 20 is better.

*assuming made up numbers- the ratio may not even be that good, it may be somewhat better. It doesn't matter what they are; looking at it from any sort of business eye says HH is the better way for the company to go.
It wasn't like they didn't try Warhammer Forge at all, it just clearly failed.

From a gaming perspective, yeah this sucks. But from a financial perspective, it is an obviously correct decision.

Coraxis
10-12-2014, 18:53
Basic Maths?
If investing 10 in HH yields 20, and investing 10 in WHF yields 11*, then... well. 20 is better.

*assuming made up numbers- the ratio may not even be that good, it may be somewhat better. It doesn't matter what they are; looking at it from any sort of business eye says HH is the better way for the company to go.
It wasn't like they didn't try Warhammer Forge at all, it just clearly failed.

From a gaming perspective, yeah this sucks. But from a financial perspective, it is an obviously correct decision.

Yes but my point is that they could invest more resources on WHF so that line became as profitable as HH. Instead they throw it away to focus just on HH. WHF failed because they commited some mistakes, one of them being GW less support to WHF in terms of promotion, but if they don't assume them and prove something else they are wasting opportunities. And some day people will be tired of SM stuff...and when that happens WHF would be almost non-existent from lack of support. It's more difficult to resurrect the dead than to heal them while they're still alive. But who cares... pew pew!

Bigman
10-12-2014, 19:04
Yes but my point is that they could invest more resources on WHF so that line became as profitable as HH. Instead they throw it away to focus just on HH. WHF failed because they commited some mistakes, one of them being GW less support to WHF in terms of promotion, but if they don't assume them and prove something else they are wasting opportunities. And some day people will be tired of SM stuff...and when that happens WHF would be almost non-existent from lack of support. It's more difficult to resurrect the dead than to heal them while they're still alive. But who cares... pew pew!


Businesses work on risk. This investment is at close to 0% risk for GW, because HH is proven to sell. There is far more risk involved in investing in WHF as it has a very poor record of sales. The board and CEO would have a very hard time selling the idea of financing WHF.

Horus38
10-12-2014, 19:04
Yes but my point is that they could invest more resources on WHF so that line became as profitable as HH. Instead they throw it away to focus just on HH. WHF failed because they commited some mistakes, one of them being GW less support to WHF in terms of promotion, but if they don't assume them and prove something else they are wasting opportunities. And some day people will be tired of SM stuff...and when that happens WHF would be almost non-existent from lack of support. It's more difficult to resurrect the dead than to heal them while they're still alive. But who cares... pew pew!

Hopefully they'll revisit WHF after 9th edition drops and the End Times finish up. The issue with Warhammer Forge (IMHO) is they had a couple really cool sculpts but the rest were underwhelming/bad, usually a result of veering away from the Monstrous Arcanum artwork. Couple this with the fact that they dragged their feet on making those sculpts/monsters which people really wanted to see means the revenue stream is of course not going to be pulling its weight.

Tymell
10-12-2014, 19:08
Yes but my point is that they could invest more resources on WHF so that line became as profitable as HH.

Which is a kind of chicken-and-egg argument that can be used either way, depending on your own take: Is HH more successful because they invest more in it, or is it simply more successful and thus -leads- to more investment in it? The same sort of point has been raised regarding emphasis on space marines within 40K, or 40K vs. Fantasy, Lord of the Rings, specialist games...

Not saying I have a clear answer to give, just pointing out that this argument can work either way.

theredknight
11-12-2014, 03:09
bad news as this confirms totally that no more nice WH books like this one from FW. very disappointing. got to get mine. 225 now in stock

Haravikk
11-12-2014, 12:48
I could understand them discontinuing the physical copy, but I've felt for a while that Forge World should really be releasing more stuff digitally as it should be easier to maintain, and if the main aim is to keep rules available to push the models, then a digital format can more easily be updated and revised, rather than doing an "all new" release every so often. Think Ravening Hordes for armies and models exclusive to Forge World but kept up to date and viable (or as viable as Forge Worlds rules can be).

The Chaos Dwarf models are fantastic, but instead of building them into a full army (did we even see any of the basic troops?), but the big problem with Warhammer Forge was that they kept releasing big monsters that no-one could really use in games, and only ever half-releasing things (we're still missing a bunch of those elemental monsters). If they focused on Chaos Dwarfs and maybe Regiments of Renown (that anyone could use) they could make Warhammer Forge actually be profitable IMO.

Coraxis
11-12-2014, 13:32
I could understand them discontinuing the physical copy, but I've felt for a while that Forge World should really be releasing more stuff digitally as it should be easier to maintain, and if the main aim is to keep rules available to push the models, then a digital format can more easily be updated and revised, rather than doing an "all new" release every so often. Think Ravening Hordes for armies and models exclusive to Forge World but kept up to date and viable (or as viable as Forge Worlds rules can be).

The Chaos Dwarf models are fantastic, but instead of building them into a full army (did we even see any of the basic troops?), but the big problem with Warhammer Forge was that they kept releasing big monsters that no-one could really use in games, and only ever half-releasing things (we're still missing a bunch of those elemental monsters). If they focused on Chaos Dwarfs and maybe Regiments of Renown (that anyone could use) they could make Warhammer Forge actually be profitable IMO.

I see Regiments of Renown as one of the ways to go, new units that almost every army could use with nice fluff and cool rules. Add conversion packs, command groups, standard beares, new characters, and units for armies (like the Troll Hag who was supposed to be a character, and now is kind of a unit for O&G). Something people could use to expand their armies, giving them something they don't have and they want, and can use.

Horus38
11-12-2014, 14:17
I see Regiments of Renown as one of the ways to go, new units that almost every army could use with nice fluff and cool rules. Add conversion packs, command groups, standard beares, new characters, and units for armies (like the Troll Hag who was supposed to be a character, and now is kind of a unit for O&G). Something people could use to expand their armies, giving them something they don't have and they want, and can use.

I did see that complaint pop up quite a bit where the stuff they're making isn't applicable to most armies or people not playing Storm of Magic. Mercenaries/Regiments of Renown would definitely peak my interest, especially faction specific ones.

Metacarpi
11-12-2014, 14:28
I must say I'm a little disappointed with this, having just dropped £300 starting a Chaos Dwarf force.

Not entirely surprised though, this has been coming for a long time!

Grimstonefire
11-12-2014, 21:13
Copy and paste from Odatria on Chaos Dwarfs Online who asked FW the question


The Tamurkhan book is not being reprinted as we need to see what happens with the End Times being released by Games Workshop. this doesn't invalid the Chaos Dwarf list at all.

Col. Tartleton
11-12-2014, 21:19
The campaign book isn't canon and hasn't been. Most likely when they get around to doing more WHF during ninth (hopefully) they'll make a new End Times compatible version.

Col.Beefeater
11-12-2014, 21:35
Snagged a copy of Tamurkhan yesterday while I had the chance. Even though I'm an elf player I figured its still good to have.

Plus $50 for a book at Tamurkhan's quality is a steal after paying for the past 3 freaking End Times Books.

Grimstonefire
11-12-2014, 21:49
The campaign book isn't canon and hasn't been. Most likely when they get around to doing more WHF during ninth (hopefully) they'll make a new End Times compatible version.

Is FW normally bothered about their books fitting in with the 'official' timeline? Sure HH books are all canon, but the IA books are all non canon aren't they?

Voss
11-12-2014, 22:26
Yes but my point is that they could invest more resources on WHF so that line became as profitable as HH. Instead they throw it away to focus just on HH. WHF failed because they commited some mistakes, one of them being GW less support to WHF in terms of promotion, but if they don't assume them and prove something else they are wasting opportunities. And some day people will be tired of SM stuff...and when that happens WHF would be almost non-existent from lack of support. It's more difficult to resurrect the dead than to heal them while they're still alive. But who cares... pew pew!

No, for two reasons.
One, GW doesn't do promotion at all, for anything.
Two, profit isn't just a matter of sticking resources in and a set amount comes out the other side of the equation.

Loosely related third: the day people are tired of SM stuff (as reasonable as that proposition sounds on paper, given how often they retread the same concepts ad nauseum), is the day GW dies as a company. No marines = crash and burn.

For a product line..., rezzing isn't more difficult than healing. There is plenty of evidence of not enough demand in hard numbers and meaningful sales results. 'Healing' that isn't a thing that can just 'be done'. If End Times and 9th (somehow) actually results in a massive resurgence for Fantasy, then rezzing Warhammer Forge is not unreasonable. Reprint existing stuff, put moulds back into circulation and run with new stuff on top. But at the moment, throwing more money in to try to convince people to buy the stuff that isn't selling now (and I'm not even sure how they could even do so, given that they don't advertise) isn't viable. Its just throwing good money after bad.

Dryaktylus
11-12-2014, 22:31
the IA books are all non canon aren't they?

Um, why that? Vraks, Taros, Anphelion Project, Kastorel-Novem - it's all mentioned in recent codices.

Coraxis
11-12-2014, 22:34
This is interesting...Tamurkhan was set 10 years prior the current date in the End Times (was mentioned in the Empire 8th Armybook), why bother removing Tamurkhan if there won't be major changes in WHF ruleset?? They could release a FAQ. This makes me think that 9th will be very different from 8th, as in something that cannont be updated with a couple of FAQs, as they did with some stuff of 40k 6th to 7th.

ShruikhanTK
11-12-2014, 22:51
I think some of you are reading too much into this. The Book story line was scrapped so why would they continue printing it? If they want to support their line they could print a Chaos Dwarf book when 9th comes around. That seems the wisest thing to do while their current stock holds out. Also EndTimes did change the entire ball game, maybe they will rewrite them into the story assuming theres any sort of collaboration between FW/GW.

I think most of us agree that WHF failed because no one could actually use the monsters in their army, notice how ET: Khaine used Merwyrms in it? GW is trying to boost the sales of WHF, that to me is how you properly introduce a new model. Now If I'm a High Elf player and I want a Lothern Seaguard army the Merwyrm suddenly looks a lot more interesting as I need a monster that fits my ocean theme.

Personally I'd like skinks riding flightless birds mentioned in the fluff. Mercenary units would've been a great option as well, shield packs, alternate heads etc. They literally copied and pasted the 40k business model, "make big stuff, sell big stuff". They really should've did market research...seriously wth are they doing?

Coraxis
11-12-2014, 23:09
I think some of you are reading too much into this. The Book story line was scrapped so why would they continue printing it? If they want to support their line they could print a Chaos Dwarf book when 9th comes around. That seems the wisest thing to do while their current stock holds out. Also EndTimes did change the entire ball game, maybe they will rewrite them into the story assuming theres any sort of collaboration between FW/GW.

I think most of us agree that WHF failed because no one could actually use the monsters in their army, notice how ET: Khaine used Merwyrms in it? GW is trying to boost the sales of WHF, that to me is how you properly introduce a new model. Now If I'm a High Elf player and I want a Lothern Seaguard army the Merwyrm suddenly looks a lot more interesting as I need a monster that fits my ocean theme.

Personally I'd like skinks riding flightless birds mentioned in the fluff. Mercenary units would've been a great option as well, shield packs, alternate heads etc. They literally copied and pasted the 40k business model, "make big stuff, sell big stuff". They really should've did market research...seriously wth are they doing?

Well, they copied and pasted the 40k current business model, but the big bang of FW's 40k line was when they started with infantry conversion kits, dreads for specific SM chapters, new ork vehicles and conversion kits for vehicles, etc...not just titans and ships. Hell just look at their pages, 40k has one per army with many models and kits, WHF has only a few armies with few things, and most of them are gigantic useless monsters. They did wrong because they didn't wanted to start from below, step by step as they did with 40k. TBH they did with Tamurkhan, but then they made the mistake of Monstrous Arcanum. Maybe a couple of other books like Tamurkhan (BFP f'rex) would had improve their fantasy line. WHF needs a counterpart to Imperial Armour, that would be the right way IMHO.

Col. Tartleton
12-12-2014, 00:50
Modern "Regiments of Renown" as an alternative to "Imperial Armour" would have been perfect but no such luck. Clearly we need more huge centerpiece models...

For example, Mengil Manhide's Manflayers. Every serious Dark Elf player would probably buy a few dozen forgeworld quality models that could easily represent corsairs or shades in addition to whatever the rules for the Manflayers are. Heck if they have great swords you could play them as Executioners.

Adam_Barrow
12-12-2014, 01:07
Updated Cursed Company would sell like mad. There's a ton of Undead players out there now, and they all lament how Hugh Mans are the only race represented in their army. Titan Forge's undead greenskins pop up in a lot of VC plogs I've seen, and lots of folks convert undead Stunties/Elves/Ogres/etc. Give me some skellies from every race and I'll buy the whole set.

Giankllr
12-12-2014, 09:14
I've tried to support WF , i've bought the warpfire dragon months ago also if he got the plastic black dragon body, it's a shame that as i could finally afford the models i've always wished when younger i can't as they are no more viable like the chaos war mammoth...

and i think FW could sell more models if they were not sculpted by You-know-who!

Ramius4
12-12-2014, 10:03
This bothers me particularly. I mean if Horus Heresy is selling so well and WHF is not, why isn't reasonable to put more resources on WHF??

You just answered your own question.

Still Standing
12-12-2014, 10:57
This bothers me particularly. I mean if Horus Heresy is selling so well and WHF is not, why isn't reasonable to put more resources on WHF?? Horus Heresy is selling on its own, it doesn't need that extra help from FW except for room issue in their stock. Instead they could both keep HH selling well as it was and put resources on WHF to improve those sales too. You can say: Yes but then the HH releases would have slowed.And I say: So what?? People wouldn't have enough Dreadnought variations at a month? Or enough shoulder pads? They have to wait an extra month? I don't think their sales will decrease that much, given how many SM they need to form a basic unit. And before they released stuff like legion specific shoulder pads and some specific units, people were buying from them other Heresy stuff and converting their own units that way. How many people buy a Legion Glaive when they already have a Fellblade? Is the difference in sales that much for releasing a new almost equal model?? Don't know, but don't think so.

And I'm not asking for them to stop all their HH stuff to do WHF stuff, but c'mon, one release each month? or each two months or so? A rulebook once a year?? FW's HH has a bunch of releases at a month, every month, for a whole year. And most of those release are easy to do things, like changing a couple of details in a tank. WHF could use some love too, and maybe that way people would be interested in that line. But if they just release new stuff every 5 years or so, or doesn't release at all, who is gonna buy their WHF models? Their potential customers already have those models or are not interested in them, if they don't release something new (and you know...useful) people will not support that line. Of course is easier to release some weapon packs than use imagination and hard work to create new WHF models...but stop supporting the line as they are clearly doing? Without a single Fantasy release since the Dread Saurian?

And BL is going the same way, just look at their Advent Calendar...not a single WHF short story. Then there's the claim that WH40K and HH sells more than WHF, that those lines have more followers than the last. But of course it is that way, because those two lines get all the support and promotion. People buy what they see, and WHF isn't particurarly attractive, because GW and FW don't make it attractive. When they've done it, it has been a success

At one stage both the HH and the WFB stuff was limited to just a few models. The HH models sold, so got more love. The WFB models didn't sell, so fell besides the wayside. It's quite simple. Additionally, FW's HH line is piggybacking off of Black Library's success with their HH line of books. Black Library's Time of Legends line is nowhere near as successful. It is not the case that they need to invest more, as there simply is not the same demand or draw for the products.

I say this as somebody who has about 2,500 points of Chaos Dwarves. I've also got around 20,000 points of Horus Heresy models. Does that not make the point well enough?

Giankllr
12-12-2014, 14:57
" While we are running out of the Tamurkhan book this is because we are reaching the end of the print run for this book. Due to the costs of printing books we have no plans to reprint it until any immediate future changed for the Warhammer game have been confirmed. It is also likely that we will make available as a download, the Chaos Dwarf army list from the Tamurkhan book once all the current copies are sold.


If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.


Regards,
Forge World "

Aéquitas
12-12-2014, 18:39
" While we are running out of the Tamurkhan book this is because we are reaching the end of the print run for this book. Due to the costs of printing books we have no plans to reprint it until any immediate future changed for the Warhammer game have been confirmed. It is also likely that we will make available as a download, the Chaos Dwarf army list from the Tamurkhan book once all the current copies are sold.


If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.


Regards,
Forge World "

Guess I was right :)

Andy p
13-12-2014, 21:49
Just noticed the skull cracker is back on the site. I really wish I could afford Chaos Dwarfs.

Spiney Norman
13-12-2014, 22:28
So chaos dwarfs becomes the only army to be officially squatted by both GW main and forgeworld.

I'm not sure that is an altogether positive accolade...

benvoliothefirst
14-12-2014, 12:15
Snagged a copy of Tamurkhan yesterday while I had the chance. Even though I'm an elf player I figured its still good to have.

Plus $50 for a book at Tamurkhan's quality is a steal after paying for the past 3 freaking End Times Books.

Quoted for truth! I love Tamurkhan AND Monstrous Arcanum... I would've bought the hell out of black fire pass...

Although on some level, I do KIND OF like the idea that if I ever want one of those Corpse Giants, I'll have to scratch build it. Kind of an elite modelers only club situation.

Primal Exile
15-12-2014, 01:18
Not to wish list here, but I am a bit shocked they have not explored the Time of Legends. The "Horus Heresy" of Fantasy.

TheRiverTrollKing
15-12-2014, 02:08
Ok, should I buy a copy or not?

forseer of fates
15-12-2014, 02:22
Not unless you want it for the fluff, which is not amazing.

Azazyll
15-12-2014, 03:50
Not to wish list here, but I am a bit shocked they have not explored the Time of Legends. The "Horus Heresy" of Fantasy.

I thinkwe're getting End Times instead

Urgat
15-12-2014, 07:13
Not to wish list here, but I am a bit shocked they have not explored the Time of Legends. The "Horus Heresy" of Fantasy.


What would they do? It'd be pretty much the same units with a couple different restrictions, and the Empire would be down to using marauders. A couple special characters like Sigmar. Beyond that?

Odin
15-12-2014, 15:28
Not to wish list here, but I am a bit shocked they have not explored the Time of Legends. The "Horus Heresy" of Fantasy.
What is the time of legends though? Just a way or referring to various disparate significant events in Warhammer history.

The Horus Heresy was a specific period of about 10 years (IIRC). Makes for a cohesive setting dominated by the most popular army in the most popular game.

Time of Legends novels cover thousands of years. Would you do the rise of Nagash, the Sundering, War of the Beard, the time of Sigmar...? Each of which is a niche setting for a limited number of armies in a less popular game. I love the idea, but it seems completely hopeless as a profitable line for Warhammer Forge.

Rakariel
17-12-2014, 10:55
If I am honest the biggest gripe I have is that we might never see the nearly finished K´dai Destroyer. Then again I do believe they won`t drop CDs anyway rather that they will get a new book some time in the future. Tamurkhan was dropped because it didn`t really work well with the whole End Times Scenario but that doesn`t mean that CDs don`t. If they make a new CD book they could create new units and flesh the army out far more than it is at the moment. Looking at the WH Forge range Chaos Dwarfs are the only thing that haven`t lost anything. So yes, I believe that atleast CDs won`t suffer the same fate as most or all of the other single WH Forge releases and I guess FW will wait till The End Times are "concluded", 9th has landed and they have a better concept of what to do with their army from that point onwards.

Monstrous Arcanum was great aswell but sadly not very thought out in terms of a business plan. Without incorporating said monsters into existing army books there was never really a chance to see them on the table apart from Storm of Magic games. And the odd collector (like I am) doesn`t create enough revenue to keep an idea like those monsters going on its own.

I`m sad to see so many great sculpts go the way of the dodo or not even getting released at all (shard dragon, how do I miss thee) especially because I think that WH Forge has so much more potential than 40k or even the Horus Heresy. But as it shows if models are only poorly incorporated into the game and rules environment most people will stay clear of them and rather buy the newest version of gun emplacement X than a monster they will likely never use at all.

Still I hope we will get a renewed interest in WH Forge in the future even if it looks rather bleak at the moment.

Commodus Leitdorf
19-12-2014, 21:55
Well I have about 3000pts of old, big hat Chaos Dwarf's. I bought my copy today to I can finally have the army list. Might just make them my next project and finish up my units!

Andy p
19-12-2014, 22:47
If I am honest the biggest gripe I have is that we might never see the nearly finished K´dai Destroyer. Then again I do believe they won`t drop CDs anyway rather that they will get a new book some time in the future. Tamurkhan was dropped because it didn`t really work well with the whole End Times Scenario but that doesn`t mean that CDs don`t. If they make a new CD book they could create new units and flesh the army out far more than it is at the moment. Looking at the WH Forge range Chaos Dwarfs are the only thing that haven`t lost anything. So yes, I believe that atleast CDs won`t suffer the same fate as most or all of the other single WH Forge releases and I guess FW will wait till The End Times are "concluded", 9th has landed and they have a better concept of what to do with their army from that point onwards.

Monstrous Arcanum was great aswell but sadly not very thought out in terms of a business plan. Without incorporating said monsters into existing army books there was never really a chance to see them on the table apart from Storm of Magic games. And the odd collector (like I am) doesn`t create enough revenue to keep an idea like those monsters going on its own.

I`m sad to see so many great sculpts go the way of the dodo or not even getting released at all (shard dragon, how do I miss thee) especially because I think that WH Forge has so much more potential than 40k or even the Horus Heresy. But as it shows if models are only poorly incorporated into the game and rules environment most people will stay clear of them and rather buy the newest version of gun emplacement X than a monster they will likely never use at all.

Still I hope we will get a renewed interest in WH Forge in the future even if it looks rather bleak at the moment.

I agree with your sentiment. Although the poor siege giant has gone, however I guess an argument could be raised that it's different to the other chaos dwarf choices as it is available to warriors of chaos as well, but so is the hell cannon. It was however a scroll in Monstrous Arcanum, but I think that only reinforces the position that it was dropped due to poor sales, much like other monster lines.

As I've said before: they can never promise not to drop a line or remove a whole army because that's dependent upon current contexts and conditions. Going forward; if those contexts and conditions change so to must the attitude towards a line's safety. It's just business.... I guess.

Pariah-Miniatures
22-12-2014, 01:02
Why isn't this thread closed? The only news is that it's been discontinued for obvious reasons. D-man shoulda closed this thread right after initial post, as there is nothing else coming from this.

Samsonov
22-12-2014, 01:21
Why isn't this thread closed? The only news is that it's been discontinued for obvious reasons. D-man shoulda closed this thread right after initial post, as there is nothing else coming from this.
Because it is an interesting and informative discussion perhaps?

tneva82
22-12-2014, 06:10
What's with all this "why isn't thread already closed" junk anyway? One would think people wouldn't want...you know...some DISCUSSION in discussion forum? Let mods decide what needs to be closed and what not. No point in user moderation(too bad it doesn't seem to be prohibited here)

Metacarpi
22-12-2014, 08:29
I agree with your sentiment. Although the poor siege giant has gone, however I guess an argument could be raised that it's different to the other chaos dwarf choices as it is available to warriors of chaos as well, but so is the hell cannon. It was however a scroll in Monstrous Arcanum, but I think that only reinforces the position that it was dropped due to poor sales, much like other monster lines.

As I've said before: they can never promise not to drop a line or remove a whole army because that's dependent upon current contexts and conditions. Going forward; if those contexts and conditions change so to must the attitude towards a line's safety. It's just business.... I guess.

I was looking for this chap the other week. Planning on making my own in the new year out of the standard GW Giant kit (god I love that kit, I have 3 in my Ogres army!) and making the armour plating out of Plasticard.

It's a shame that there's the possibility of the Chaos Dwarves being squatted yet again, but I can guarantee that the guys over at Chaos Dwarf Online will be keeping the army going with homebrewed updates etc.

Liber
22-12-2014, 09:46
People seem confused between something not being for sale and something no longer existing.


Tamurkhan is still a viable ruleset for the models that forge world did produce. Its also has great art and IMO great fluff.


Also, it hasn't been retconned. Really, it cannot be retconned unless GW went out of its way to specifically say 'this didn't happen'.


Why can't it be retconned? Allow me to quote a small part from the very FIRST page (not counting title page etc.) -


"...Bearing the eponymous title Tamurkhan or The Throne of Chaos' this strange work, extensive in range and strangely illuminated takes as its subject the rise and fall of the great warlord of the Northern Wastes *vaguely* known to Imperial scholars as having led a savage invasion of the Empires southern lands nearld a decade ago...This strange manuscript could then be of supreme significance, for it deals with events and peoples in the dark and terrible lands far removed from our own, yet where many of our troubles are born, and we may learn much from it. Or of course, *it may also be no more than a tissue of lies and fabrications*, spewed from the forked tongues of the servants of Chaos to mislead and corrupt.

It is for you, honoured masters, to decide.

Your obediant servant, (the dudes signature or stamp)."


All emphasis on the above excerpt from Tamurkhan mine.


So as we can see, in the first page it is set out that the events are vague, years old, and possibly made up/exaggerated by the chaos follower who wrote it.

tneva82
22-12-2014, 10:13
People seem confused between something not being for sale and something no longer existing.


Tamurkhan is still a viable ruleset for the models that forge world did produce. Its also has great art and IMO great fluff.

Thing is will forgeworld keep UPDATING it so that it will REMAIN viable. Sure it's viable NOW but as it is few years down the path(maybe next year depending on how 9th changes things...) and it's no longer viable. It might not even produce legal army list. Or even if it did it would be so uncompetive you would be shooting yourself to foot big time.

Liber
22-12-2014, 10:25
Thing is will forgeworld keep UPDATING it so that it will REMAIN viable.

You mean like 'unit strength' being taken out in 8th edition? I suppose its possible, you're right. I just...personally don't expect that dramatic of a rules shift for 9th. If there even is a 9th that is. :shifty:

As to whether FW releases an errata for it when/if its needed...I don't know. Probably they would?

tneva82
22-12-2014, 10:50
You mean like 'unit strength' being taken out in 8th edition? I suppose its possible, you're right. I just...personally don't expect that dramatic of a rules shift for 9th. If there even is a 9th that is. :shifty:

As to whether FW releases an errata for it when/if its needed...I don't know. Probably they would?

Not just 9th but 10th and generally army books getting changed resulting in power creep.

Have fun playing 5th ed army books or even 6th ed army books in 8th edition...

And why would they release new faq? Why release new FAQ/Errata for book you don't anymore sell...Not expecting that if GW decides no more models for them will be sold.

Liber
22-12-2014, 11:31
Not just 9th but 10th and generally army books getting changed resulting in power creep.

Have fun playing 5th ed army books or even 6th ed army books in 8th edition...


But why treat Tamurkhan like a regular armybook? Its that as well as a supplement for other armies. As an example, the one person I know who bought Chaos Dwarfs (and a copy of Tamurkhan obviously) did so to supplement/theme his existing WoC army. And let me tell you, there won't be any need to worry about the units in Tamurkhan getting made useless because of 'power creep' for a long long time :cheese:


Honestly though, I'm not expecting any 9th ed armybooks for a LONG while. There are rumors and decent arguments out there saying that 9th edition isn't even a planned thing at this point in time. After releasing all these hardcover 8th ed books, then a series of End Times books, its very silly to be thinking 9th ed armybooks are anywhere but a far flung future.


Edit again - I DID actually play a 6th edition army in 8th edition! They are called Dwarfs, and up until recently our book was super freaking old. And you know what? People did ok with them. Same with Brettonians. A new book is sorely desired of course, but they still function as an army capable of winning games...11 years after release. So I'm not worried about Tamurkhan.

Metacarpi
22-12-2014, 11:50
But why treat Tamurkhan like a regular armybook? Its that as well as a supplement for other armies. As an example, the one person I know who bought Chaos Dwarfs (and a copy of Tamurkhan obviously) did so to supplement/theme his existing WoC army. And let me tell you, there won't be any need to worry about the units in Tamurkhan getting made useless because of 'power creep' for a long long time :cheese:

Seriously? I'm assuming he just used Destroyers and Magma Cannons then, because the core stuff is freaking expensive points wise, and most of the other choices aren't exactly optimal (think Bull Renders, K'Daii Fireborn slowly killing themselves)...

Liber
22-12-2014, 12:00
Seriously? I'm assuming he just used Destroyers and Magma Cannons then


Daemonsmith guy, infernal gaurd with the fireglaives and 2 Deathshriekers last I checked.

And really, every single 8th ed book has a couple units or items that are so bad that even casual gamers don't want to touch them. I could fill this whole post with them, but its not nescessary I think.

N1AK
22-12-2014, 14:13
Then there's the claim that WH40K and HH sells more than WHF, that those lines have more followers than the last. But of course it is that way, because those two lines get all the support and promotion. People buy what they see, and WHF isn't particurarly attractive, because GW and FW don't make it attractive.

Have you seen the amount of Warhammer stuff GW has put out in the last couple of years? We've had army books coming out at probably the fastest rate ever, various supplements and now the End Times stuff. It simply isn't true that Warhammer hasn't had a lot of attention from Games Workshop over the last couple of years; and it certainly isn't a valid reason for why Warhammer doesn't sell as well as 40K. Sure Warhammer Forge was HH's unloved brother, which likely impacted on Warhammer Forge's sales but will have had almost no impact on Warhammer sales in general.

Games Workshop can stick a slightly different gun on an already sold tank chassis and print money, or sculpt an entirely new fantasy model and sell considerably fewer copies. Maybe they could make Warhammer Forge a success if they threw more resources at it, but if I was in their position I'd be tempted to milk HH for every penny rather than risk throwing good money after bad.

wisetiger7
22-12-2014, 16:16
I agree - this thread needs to be closed or moved to General. There is no more news beyond the OP in this entire thread, and it keeps popping up as if something new has been revealed. Discussion should be allowed to a point. But if there is no more news to be had, it should be closed, and the discussion be taken up in General.

Collector
23-12-2014, 04:17
Well I am done with forgeworld they make pretty wall decent made models that come with instructions on where to fill the holes that are way over priced. Now they are not even bothering to finish their line... lol

Sir_Glonojad
23-12-2014, 11:05
I agree - this thread needs to be closed or moved to General. There is no more news beyond the OP in this entire thread (...).

That's not true. One of the posters quoted a FW message promising to put the CD list on the website once the book sells out.

ivan55599
23-12-2014, 11:09
The campaign book isn't canon and hasn't been. Most likely when they get around to doing more WHF during ninth (hopefully) they'll make a new End Times compatible version.
(Note: didn't read yet pages 4-5)
If it is not canon, why there is mention about Tamrukhan and his campaign in 8th ed Chaos armybook? Is my armybook faulty?

forseer of fates
23-12-2014, 11:36
Its also in the empire book so its deffo cannon, just as a footnote though, yeah this guy attacked nuln and died the end.

Still Standing
23-12-2014, 13:04
No reason for it not to be canon. He didn't actually accomplish much beside sack a few minor towns and smash himself ineffectually against Nuln's walls. Good story though.

Tah Kazak Rik
05-01-2015, 06:02
Since the book is no longer available does anyone have the Forge World PDFs containing the rules for Lietpold the Black and Edvard Van Der Kraal? And/or can you PM me the rules?