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WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 09:02
Hey
Now something occured to me while reading the sisters of battle remake thread. Why not make certain fringe armies ie Daemons Sisters of Battle Assassins Inquisiton Grey Knights Harlequins and Genestealer Cults available as allied codexs. Now some if these ie Daemons could easily be rolled into another codex ie csm. So in the case of daemons while youd have all the choices you have now but they wouldnt take up a force org slot. Now you could go even further with this and bring back the gods rivalries depending on which mark your warlord has.

Now for sone you could do other fun things ie Inquisiton you could choose wether your inquisitor and his warband are puritans or radical. Now with this you could also have a corruption level type thing depending on how many of certain upgrades he could take would reflect how corrupted he is which could also change which armies he can ally with and his rekationship with them

Born Again
16-12-2014, 09:32
Because under the current rules, you can ally existing armies either as an allied detachment or using unbound. However, as it stands you have the option of using them as stand-alone forces, which is more options. That's the case with daemons/ sisters/ grey knights, whether they decide to bring back things like a Harlequin or Genestealer Cult list really comes down to whether they think they can support and/ or sell the range, but they would almost certainly be available as a stand alone army as well.

As for rolling armies back in together, that's a bad idea at this point. Trying to fit all the daemons units in to the csm book and do both force's selection of units justice is a recipe for disaster.

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 09:39
Because under the current rules, you can ally existing armies either as an allied detachment or using unbound. However, as it stands you have the option of using them as stand-alone forces, which is more options. That's the case with daemons/ sisters/ grey knights, whether they decide to bring back things like a Harlequin or Genestealer Cult list really comes down to whether they think they can support and/ or sell the range, but they would almost certainly be available as a stand alone army as well.

As for rolling armies back in together, that's a bad idea at this point. Trying to fit all the daemons units in to the csm book and do both force's selection of units justice is a recipe for disaster.
Imo it wouldnt be a bad thing. Chaos marines suffer from not being able to bring cheap troops that dont need to baby sat but Daemons do in the form of plague bearers/nurglings. This would actually push a mono god approach rather than the take whatever you want even if it makes no sense fluff wise

Born Again
16-12-2014, 11:13
Oh, it would be great for themed armies and variety in units and tactics, but the reality is you'd be trying to cram some 30-odd extra units in to a book that already has 37. I'm pretty sure no book has ever had over 70 units in it, at the current standard codex size that would leave you with only 40 odd pages for background, miniatures showcase, and weapon/ wargear rules. Either there would have to be drastic cuts in the number of units available, or the other areas of the codex would fall by the wayside.

A.T.
16-12-2014, 11:15
So in the case of daemons while youd have all the choices you have now but they wouldnt take up a force org slot.I don't understand what you mean here - the only limitation on taking daemons in a CSM army is that you need 1 daemon troop and 1 daemon HQ per allied detachment to qualify as battle forged.

If you want cheap troops then take a herald and a couple of squads of nurglings/plague bearers - you get 41 models for 405 points with no knock-on implications to the rest of your army. As battle brothers you can even cram them into spare transports and shuffle ICs between the squads. The only thing you can't do is use them to avoid having compulsory CSM troops.


Daemons also have around 40 units, plus dataslates - more than most factions (more than CSM). Practicality aside they are shared between the 40k and fantasy range and as a separate faction their updates can be matched to the fantasy model releases.

A.T.
16-12-2014, 11:55
I'm pretty sure no book has ever had over 70 units in itLargest are loyalists at ~58 units.
Established factions like daemons, CSM, variant marines, eldar, orks, guard, nids - all around the 35-45 unit mark.
The more recent factions like DE, tau, and crons have 25-30 ish units
The hacked-up GK have 21, inqusition 13 (sharing 5 of those with GK)
Sororitas have 16.

Of course some units can vary massively with upgrades while others pretty much only have one way to field them.

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 12:49
If just seems in my eyes having chaos marines and daemons is hurting the faction more than its doing good. Same thing is said about warriors of chaos and daemons in fantasy

T10
16-12-2014, 14:06
Now for sone you could do other fun things ie Inquisiton you could choose wether your inquisitor and his warband are puritans or radical. Now with this you could also have a corruption level type thing depending on how many of certain upgrades he could take would reflect how corrupted he is which could also change which armies he can ally with and his rekationship with them

This would have been a lot more interesting up to and including sixth edition when your standard army was limitied to a single main force.

These days you can agree with your opponent to play Unbound and mix and match units with complete freedom (say, an Inquisitor with a Furioso Dreadnought along with some Daemons and a Carnifex), or agree to an only slightly stricter Battleforged list consisting of a mix of detachments and formations (say, an Inquisitorial detachment, a Blood Angels formation, a Daemon detachment and a Tyranid formation).

Now, while you can choose whatever you like, the allies chart makes for a bump in the road. A Furioso Dreadnought and a Carnifex aren't going to be best buds even in a (perhaps contrived?) narrative where they join forces to defeat a Necron Monolith hanging out with a Harlequin Troupe.

The down side of the allies chart (in my opinion at least) is that it does not allow for renegade Imperials. Perhaps there is room for a codex detailing these alliances?

-T10

AndrewGPaul
16-12-2014, 15:37
If the army list in IA13 is no good for you, all you'd need would be a dataslate with the single line "To field a Renegades army list, Astra Militarum, Imperial Knights, Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons armies count as being Battle Brothers". :)

WarsmithGarathor94
16-12-2014, 16:39
If the army list in IA13 is no good for you, all you'd need would be a dataslate with the single line "To field a Renegades army list, Astra Militarum, Imperial Knights, Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons armies count as being Battle Brothers". :)

I like IA13 but tbh it irritates me just a few problems with it
No way to take the actual marks. Aside from the convent of tzeench the convent rules are wayyy inferior to the marks.
No way to take traitor inquisitors/chaos knights
The fact that if my csm are my primary detachment i cant take an Arch Demagogue