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Warpsoul
24-12-2014, 11:51
How ironic that a novel chronicling the dreaded necromancer Nagash felt so... lifeless.

Each chapter is wash-rinse-repeat. Wash-rinse-repeat.

As the story itself focuses on the rebel kings and their war against the usurper of Khemri, the book is overladen with battles. Really dull, boring battles. Mike Lee makes absolutely no attempt to differentiate any one skirmish from another, and the reader is left to wade through solid walls of dull action and info-dumps like a zombie in a sandstorm.

Adjectives are repeated so much on the same page, I can't believe an editor or publisher didn't point it out to the author. Every troop-type is 'decayed' this or 'stalwart' that.

I expected more from the Malus Darkblade author. Where Malus is multi-layered and interesting to read, Nagash is a one-note, one-dimensional Saturday morning cartoon baddie.
Nagash's characterisation was so cliche that if he wore a moustache, yes, he would be twirling it.

This story should have been told from Arkhan the Black's perspective. The palace intrigues between Lahmia, Numas, Mahrak, Ka-Sabar, etc. felt like an old uncle prattling on and on at a party. Get on with it already.

Don't waste your time with this one. Read The End Times instead. Or buy another Nagash miniature, assemble and paint him for a diorama. Much more fun than reading this!

Dranthar
24-12-2014, 20:03
I have to agree. I read this one a few years back and it was awful. Just awful.

It basically consisted of Nagash saying "I'm such a bad dude", while the good guys repeatedly get their armies beaten again and again, right up until the end where they have some success sitting behind a wall. Then, just before Nagash is about to defeat them all some brand new characters come out of no where to save the day. Nagash teleports away, does his best impression of Darth Vader (nooo!) and wanders off into the middle of who cares.

The book sucked. Its arguably the worst I've ever read although I should qualify that by saying I've not read that many Black Library books.

Warpsoul
26-12-2014, 14:28
I have to agree. I read this one a few years back and it was awful. Just awful.

It basically consisted of Nagash saying "I'm such a bad dude", while the good guys repeatedly get their armies beaten again and again, right up until the end where they have some success sitting behind a wall. Then, just before Nagash is about to defeat them all some brand new characters come out of no where to save the day. Nagash teleports away, does his best impression of Darth Vader (nooo!) and wanders off into the middle of who cares.

The book sucked. Its arguably the worst I've ever read although I should qualify that by saying I've not read that many Black Library books.


Well Dranthar, I have just started Book II of the Nagash series, and from how it looks so far, Neferata is a major focus.

But even that can't sustain my interest, given how awful the first book was. Maybe the new End Times: Nagash model that came from out of nowhere and surprised us all, had me salivating for any BL Nagash fluff.

Malekith is my favourite Warhammer character and judging by how poor this Time of Legends novel was, I won't be reading Malekith.

Another thing I've learned: Warhammer lends itself better to Dirty Dozen-style stories, or tongue-in-cheek Gotrek & Felix adventures in the wilderness.

High fantasy overloaded with political intrigue is perfectly fine for Moorcock or George R R Martin. Black Library should stick to Malus Darkblade and Gotrek stories. Smaller scale and loads more fun.

DarkChaplain
26-12-2014, 16:53
Malekith is my favourite Warhammer character and judging by how poor this Time of Legends novel was, I won't be reading Malekith.


That would be entirely your loss. The Sundering trilogy was a damn fine read. Then again, you're doing an exceptionally good job judging the entire Fantasy range based on one title that wasn't to your liking. You probably wouldn't enjoy the books anyway, with such preconceived expectations.

Warpsoul
27-12-2014, 13:17
That would be entirely your loss. The Sundering trilogy was a damn fine read. Then again, you're doing an exceptionally good job judging the entire Fantasy range based on one title that wasn't to your liking. You probably wouldn't enjoy the books anyway, with such preconceived expectations.

Whoa. I've read a vast majority of Black Library warhammer novels, and this was my first step into the Time of Legends series.

But you are right- it is unfair to judge the series based on one novel, but it is hard to pick up again when the BL prices are so high. I was expecting so much more from Nagash.

GrandmasterWang
02-01-2015, 03:21
I have read the Nagash trilogy (loved the Malus trilogy) and the first 2 TOL Sundering books.

Shadow King about Alith Anar I found very interesting but no question the 2 Sundering books are better than the Nagash trilogy.

Just finished Sigmars blood and about to stsrt the end times Nagash novel.

Its unfair to judge the malekith series on the Nagash one.... they have different authors afterall

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

FlashGordon
11-01-2015, 02:23
How ironic that a novel chronicling the dreaded necromancer Nagash felt so... lifeless.

Each chapter is wash-rinse-repeat. Wash-rinse-repeat.

As the story itself focuses on the rebel kings and their war against the usurper of Khemri, the book is overladen with battles. Really dull, boring battles. Mike Lee makes absolutely no attempt to differentiate any one skirmish from another, and the reader is left to wade through solid walls of dull action and info-dumps like a zombie in a sandstorm.

Adjectives are repeated so much on the same page, I can't believe an editor or publisher didn't point it out to the author. Every troop-type is 'decayed' this or 'stalwart' that.

I expected more from the Malus Darkblade author. Where Malus is multi-layered and interesting to read, Nagash is a one-note, one-dimensional Saturday morning cartoon baddie.
Nagash's characterisation was so cliche that if he wore a moustache, yes, he would be twirling it.

This story should have been told from Arkhan the Black's perspective. The palace intrigues between Lahmia, Numas, Mahrak, Ka-Sabar, etc. felt like an old uncle prattling on and on at a party. Get on with it already.

Don't waste your time with this one. Read The End Times instead. Or buy another Nagash miniature, assemble and paint him for a diorama. Much more fun than reading this!

I enjoyed them quite much, though certainly not up with the best BL has to offer, it is definitely not amongst the worst. But i think the 2nd and 3d book is what makes the series a good read.
I loved all the world building detail that the all the books get into. The characterizations comes in the 2nd and 3d book (of both major and minor players) and follows up nicely into the blood of nagash books (which is written by another author who seamlessly, imo, continues writing the characters faithfully to the rise of nagash books).

It is definitely not a waste of time to read these books, and the authors introduction is very informative also.

shallanlol
19-01-2015, 17:54
The sundering was amazing. Had downward parts but even the long winded dwarven encounters were vastly better than most of the rise of nagash books. There were some good parts but the rest was too long winded and too detailed. The book could have been about a third of the size. Third book gets good very quickly but turns into three hundred pages of skaven and ties up all three books in about fifty pages. Unfortunately I recommend reading it prior to the end time and sigmar books.

DarkChaplain
19-01-2015, 18:29
There were some good parts but the rest was too long winded and too detailed. The book could have been about a third of the size.

People also say that about Lord of the Rings. "Too detailed" is a complaint I doubt I'll ever really understand when it comes to fantasy worldbuilding.

And in the case of the Rise of Nagash trilogy, I believe that a high detail grade is required. After all, they show the fall of a mighty empire, a rich culture and a great civilization.
The events are far in the past, beyond what Warhammer Fantasy usually shows or tells us about. I respect Mike Lee's efforts in "rebuilding" the setting in a detailed manner, with their own gods and rituals.
It is hard to get excited about the tragic fall of so mighty a nation without ever having experienced what it had to offer.

shallanlol
19-01-2015, 18:34
The tragic fall of a mighty nation shouldn't have really been that big a focus for those eras in my opinion. For example, Setra was just blinked over in the book but he was the mightiest

DarkChaplain
19-01-2015, 22:33
Settra has been dead and entombed for centuries by the time Nagash came around. He is mentioned on various occassions, and is spoken of in the prologue blurb. I don't see how Settra was glanced over, considering that there are a lot of parallels to his reign and hubris in the trilogy. He's quite simply not part of Nagash's story.

shallanlol
20-01-2015, 03:05
Settra has been dead and entombed for centuries by the time Nagash came around. He is mentioned on various occassions, and is spoken of in the prologue blurb. I don't see how Settra was glanced over, considering that there are a lot of parallels to his reign and hubris in the trilogy. He's quite simply not part of Nagash's story.

That was really my point though, there are many parts of nagash that should have just been glanced over and not gone into detail as they should not have been a part of the direct story. For example there is a large amount of skaven background and detail which was not really needed. Same with a number of the living tomb king heroes in the first book. I have not read sigmar, but for example the sundering was all main character driven and each extensively portrayed character had a large part in the story. I personally did not find this the case with the nagash omnibus

DarkChaplain
20-01-2015, 06:46
The Skaven always played a big part in Nagash's history. Even the Liber Necris has sections about them and their battles with Nagash.
Considering that Skaven at that time weren't exactly well-known by people (not like they're well-known in the present-day Empire, during Sigmar's time or the Black Plague trilogy either), it makes sense for them to be developed in the Nagash trilogy, especially since they play a vital part in his downfall.

shallanlol
20-01-2015, 12:42
But you have to admit it wasn't really needed detail for the most of it.

Spoilers below.




All they really did was delay nagash, drop poison into a river and then give alcadazzir a warpstone sword. But as a potion of the book they take up quite a number of chapters.

FlashGordon
23-01-2015, 20:27
Details are essential to a world building novel. Really a none-argument.

Styles
02-02-2015, 08:14
The Nagash books were terrible, I found getting through the 3 of them real hard going. Nagash can across as a pantomime villain.

The writer seemed to have no idea how to write skaven and made them seem just like evil humans.