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moschino_man
27-06-2006, 22:27
I am of the understanding that if you take the medi-centre strategem you get a EXTRA 4+ save for models in the building.

Put necrons in there and a monolith just behind and you get:
your 3+ armour save
your 4+ medi-centre save
your 4+ will be back roll
and if this fails send them through the monolith on another 4+ and bring them straight back into the building therefor keeping the monolith out of sight but particle whipping stuff if it comes really close. Basically Necrons wont die.

My question is, is this funny and o.k or completely unsporting.
One thing i ask is try to imagine these saves applied to you favourite race, don't dispell it because you don't like necrons. thanks!

Kriegsherr
27-06-2006, 22:53
Funny? For the opponent? No.
O.K? No.
Unsporting? hmmm.... it sounds like abusing loopholes a little bit.... but not to bad. On a cheese scale from kiddie to cheesemonger its in the lower half ;)

But Im sure there are ways to effectively kill such a nuisance. For example by killing the mon first....
But as noone around here plays them, I let other people come up with ways of getting around the other saves.... there are a lot.

Voltaire
27-06-2006, 22:56
Quite a desperate ploy if a Necron played needs to do something like that to win a game.

That, and how would you manouver a monolith in a proper cityfight?

Unseeing Eye
27-06-2006, 22:56
Well, only one unit can benefit, and a battlecannon will deny all 3 saves unless you have a Res Orb.

So 20 Warriors with a RO as the centre of a firing line would be pretty scary in a Med building.

Voltaire
27-06-2006, 22:58
In retrospect, its very unfluffy for Necrons. If they used it, I would be more inclined to question why he was not placing faith in his own ability to roll dice. A paranoid mans strategy if ever I saw one.

azimaith
27-06-2006, 23:05
Since they can only use it once per turn I don't really see it as terrible. Its no worse than fortified buildings with cameleoline guard. (Terminator guard anyone)

Besides also dropping one of the necrons (and one of the games) most important factors, maneuverability, for increased survivability which they don't really need.

As for a monolith, its a skimmer so it can go wherever it wants in city fight.

If a squad of necrons does this you can probably just ignore them thanks to the extremely short lines of sight in CoD and just do objectives.

Tooooon
28-06-2006, 01:55
Ahhh, a bit off topic, but what about Armoured Companies in City Fights? Yes, it may sound bad at first, but if you look at the update army list for them on the online chapter approved you can give all tanks for 15pts each I think it is the ability to not have to roll for difficult terrain. Having said that, their potential starts to show through..... Muhahahahha

cailus
28-06-2006, 03:27
It can be fluffy. Call it a Re-animator. Basically it remoulds the Necrons damaged bodies.

Or it could be a heavily modified Tomn Spider.

Latro_
28-06-2006, 07:57
My mate came up with a scary necron list for C0D 1000pts lord res ord, 20 warriors and 9 tomb spiders.

Nows dats brokez

Unseeing Eye
28-06-2006, 08:37
Now dats gonna phase out. ;)

Dranthar
28-06-2006, 09:30
Ahhh, a bit off topic, but what about Armoured Companies in City Fights? Yes, it may sound bad at first, but if you look at the update army list for them on the online chapter approved you can give all tanks for 15pts each I think it is the ability to not have to roll for difficult terrain. Having said that, their potential starts to show through..... Muhahahahha

Assuming you're right, it still wont help them get past tank traps, booby traps (which while not devastating to the bigger tanks, can still help), and demolitions (ie. the good old exploding building :D ).

azimaith
28-06-2006, 09:34
A bunch of combat inept 2 wound monstrous creatures plus a meagre 21 warriors is hardly broken.

RampagingRavener
28-06-2006, 09:50
Now dats gonna phase out. ;)

Not if it's att crammed into one Medicae Building...Except, why not add in Fortifications as well, for that handy 3+ cover save? Which means a pretty much gauranteed 3+ save, followed by a 4+ save, then a 4+ WBB...those necrons aint for shifting.

Unless, of course, you were mean enough to pull Wrecker on the building in question... ;)

azimaith
28-06-2006, 09:58
Or you decide to shoot at one of those 10 warrior squads twice...

You can only use key buildings once a turn on one unit.

Besides of course assaulting the necrons, which has always been the best way to remove them.

RaiderOne
28-06-2006, 10:01
Doing this with a 20 man warrior squad and a lord with res orb would be pretty dam anoying and impossible to shift without a really strong assault from multiple units.

Even with 10 warriors tucked away somewhere this would almost garrentie no phasing out as its not worth all the effort to try and kill them over other more easy to kill targets, and necrons are not easy to kill :p

azimaith
28-06-2006, 10:05
You can't have a lord, 20 warriors in one squad, and 9 tomb spyders in an army.

2 troop choices at a minimum size of 10 each.

A squad of genestealers, or a strong squad of assault marines or the like could do it without that much trouble.

The squads will only be 10 warrior strong, all you need to do is break them. Throw in some psychic screams or just plain charge in overhwhelming numbers.

Dakkagor
28-06-2006, 10:08
I've got the perfect counter to those strategies: it starts with 6 killa kanz with the wrecker stratagem and ends with a pile of necron rich rubble.

IJW
28-06-2006, 10:10
Depending on the mission, you could probably just ignore them totally and take all the objectives. And demolition would be amusing...

marv335
28-06-2006, 10:19
i'd just shoot the building with a vindicator with seige shells. then i'd volley them with missile launcher armed dev squads.
add in a couple of chaplains and assault squads, and a couple of tac squads with ml/pg and you'll roll him right up in a couple of turns.
no problem.

The_Outsider
28-06-2006, 10:23
Really, getting a possible 4 saves per wound isn't broken.

1) You are limited by LoS
2) It cripples your mobility
3) Leaves you wide open to assault

I've used said tactic and its not as great as it seems, necrons need as much free mobility as they can get (thats why sewer rats and immortals are great).

Bookwrak
28-06-2006, 10:25
In retrospect, its very unfluffy for Necrons. If they used it, I would be more inclined to question why he was not placing faith in his own ability to roll dice. A paranoid mans strategy if ever I saw one.
:wtf:
Because... there's no such thing as an 'ability to roll dice?' You pick them up, you drop them. There's no skill, no ability required, beyond having a hand and at least two fingers.

If you hold the building, you get a benefit. That's how it works. Decrying it as 'unfluffy' of 'unsporting' is just plain ridiculous. You wanna get fluffy? Tyranids shouldn't get to use it either, because how can a ravaging horde of gaunts, or ravenors, or a 'fex use medical equipment? You think eldar are going to sully themsleves with primitive monkeigh tools and 'poisons?.' If you have a unit of Blood Angels in there, do you think that they're going to stop Black Raging just long enough for a couple stitches and a pep up shot?

Lastie
28-06-2006, 11:47
As has been pointed out, there's enough downsides to this strategy to balance out the benefits, so it's hardly cheesy. The Key Building Strategem only affects one unit once per Turn, and what usually negates WBB rolls will negate the Feel No Pain roll anyway. In essence, it's a one-trick pony that might work twice in one game, but unlikely to any more than that.

Sergeant Tanthius
28-06-2006, 12:22
Put necrons in there and a monolith just behind and you get:
your 3+ armour save
your 4+ medi-centre save
your 4+ will be back roll
and if this fails send them through the monolith on another 4+ and bring them straight back into the building therefor keeping the monolith out of sight but particle whipping stuff if it comes really close. Basically Necrons wont die.

Just to take a look at the stats...1/12 chance for a wounded necron to actually die, and 36 bolter shots on average to actually kill one...not funny, though not effective either. Necrons have to move to be effective, and thats not moving. Also the opponent will just phase you out by killing everything else anyways.