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View Full Version : What are the minimum rule/price changes needed to bring remaing books upto 8th?



Vulgarsty
18-01-2015, 21:03
OK, maybe planning for a situation that never arises, but I really like 8th. I think there 20 or so minor things I would tweak, but basically it is a great incarnation. As 9th is rumoured to be so radically different it may not be palatable and GW are more likely to swat Bretts and Beasts, much less bring them up to date, I wondered that if my group locked down 8th, what would be the minimum (as the more you tweak the less consensus you get) we could do to the remaining armies to make them more compatible. I don't play these so would particularly welcome comment from those who know these armies rules well.

Composition and obsolete army books. Pre-8th edition armies have the following changes:
All armies - Unit model caps are removed; any rule that states certain core units don't count towards minimum core points is removed; the requirement to take any mandatory unit is removed; all unit champions, musicians and standard bearers are 10 points (unless listed as free upgrades).
Bretonnians - Mulitiple characters may purchase the Virtue of Empathy; characters mounted on pegasi can join units of pegasus knights.
Beastmen - Gygors, Gorgons and Jabberslythes are reduced to 250 points; characters and chariots may possess marks of chaos for 10 points; ungors, gors, bestigors and centigors may be marked for 2 points each.
Skaven - No specific changes.

Would that do it? no wholesale changes or making up "new" units, just giving more flexibility, consistency and a teensy bit of compensation to Beastmen (because most of their champs don't cost 10 points and you cant fit a 275 point rare in 1000pt game)

SimaoSegunda
18-01-2015, 21:49
To be honest, the changes given in Glottkin for Beastmen as part of a unified Chaos list is probably enough for them. Specifically: Purchasable Marks of Chaos for units and characters, Beastman ambush not requiring an identical unit be deployed, and access to the Eye of the Gods table in the book.

Edit: Also, this thread should probably be in either Rules Development or Warhammer General.

Vulgarsty
19-01-2015, 21:08
Cheers

Yeah they're probably OK, although 250 for rares is significant. I think the universal changes help bring them all upto a stanndard.

How do you move threads to other fora by the way?

Sarael
20-01-2015, 09:50
Reduce cannons to deal 1d3 wounds, combine ranks for breaking steadfast in multiple unit combats, remove miscast and irresistable from magic, marmachines hit monster or rider not both, buildings remain in combat each round instead of charging every other round.

Colonel Mayhem
20-01-2015, 12:04
Letting Beastmen use the ambush rules from the rulebook would help them a lot. Maybe even letting them march(but not charge) the turn they arrive to reflect their ferocious nature. That would give them something special without being too overpowered. Most of us learnt how to deal with miners charging in the dwarven magic phase with their previous book, so as long as they cannot charge the opponent should have one turn to react which seems to be the golden standard regarding moves out of sequence(scouts/vanguard)

Imperator64
20-01-2015, 18:17
Skaven slaves should cost a point more.

StygianBeach
20-01-2015, 18:27
Beastmen Rares: cheaper.

Give ghorgon and Minotaurs Red Thirst, or some ability to regain wounds.

Malagor
21-01-2015, 09:43
But the Ghorgon has a way to regain wounds, just not that good.
Anyway, the Jabber should be around 150-170pts, Ghorgon around 180-200, the cygor in the same area as the Ghorgon since those two are actually one of the more useful ones.
Also the minotaurs should get a few points cheaper or get some sort of leathery skin rule that counts as scaly skin.
And the centigors cheaper and more levels of drunkeness.

zunjinto
21-01-2015, 15:35
Cheaper rares and minos would go far. Even better with the Glotkin rules. I believe that would shape up the beastmen book real good

Vulgarsty
23-01-2015, 12:41
Cheers guys, I was trying to focus on what are the minimum things that would make each army work (ie look at least like it was written as an 8th army), going forward if they are locked in their current editions and 8th is regarded as the last recognisable WFB that people play.

so in that sense the 250 rare points cap, 10 point commands etc, rather than more general balancing (mind you i was guilty of it with the bretts and the pegasus knights thought which is not NEEDED - i still think virtue of empathy stands because with removing required KOTR - no-one else in 8th HAS to take a specific unit) then you could have an all foot force for which you would need more foot characters....

FatTrucker
24-01-2015, 18:43
Skaven slaves should lose strength in numbers.

Stormvermin should be boosted to Queeks honor guard stats as standard and cost the same as Queeks honour guard.

Skaven magic needs to be re-done for 8th edition to include relevant descriptions and lore attributes.

Doomwheels need their lightning to work like the spell not the cannon.

Rat Ogres need options. They're a moulder unit so should have a core cost with the option to pay for upgrades similar to those endowed by Skweel.

Jezzails need an extra point of BS.

Skaven special characters need re-costing.

Stormbanner needs nerfing to one turn only.

Doomrocket needs re-costing or nerfing.

Verminlord should have a cheaper option without the magic.

I only play Skaven so can't really comment in the others.

decker_cky
25-01-2015, 06:54
Cheers guys, I was trying to focus on what are the minimum things that would make each army work (ie look at least like it was written as an 8th army), going forward if they are locked in their current editions and 8th is regarded as the last recognisable WFB that people play.

so in that sense the 250 rare points cap, 10 point commands etc, rather than more general balancing (mind you i was guilty of it with the bretts and the pegasus knights thought which is not NEEDED - i still think virtue of empathy stands because with removing required KOTR - no-one else in 8th HAS to take a specific unit) then you could have an all foot force for which you would need more foot characters....


250 pts is way overpriced. Even at 200 pts, you wouldn't see a lot of the beastmen rares. I've played them at 175 pts, and they were....ok (worth it probably, but not as good as building the army other ways).

Rewrite the non-8th lores is a big one IMO.

Remove the limit on pegasus knights and forced knights of the realms. 8th edition books don't have any of that.

Make chaos hounds count as core.