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Theadium
28-06-2006, 03:12
I have a giant, he has a 360* sight range to charge because hes an individual model, right?

CoveredInBees!
28-06-2006, 03:39
No, 90 degrees to his front, because he's a monster.

Maybe a bit short answer, so I'll edit it to say, normally only a model on 20/25mm base has 360 degrees LoS. The Giant is a monster, so uses the movement rules for Monsters (90 deg arc of sight, pay penalties for difficult terrain/obstacles, cannot march if within 8" of the enemy at beginning of turn, and may not turn if charged in flank/rear). It's on page 114, Chronicles. Should be available as pdf on GWs site aswell.

Major Defense
28-06-2006, 12:02
I will expound to say that cavalry models also have a 90 degree LoS - except for fast cavalry who still can only charge in their front 90.

Theadium
28-06-2006, 15:43
Man, it said monsters as units, but I took it as a unit of monsters, not one monster is a unit... That screws my Giant...

Three Headed Monkey
03-07-2006, 15:22
no it doesnt screw your giant. it keeps him ballanced. Giants are very powerful. Just because you have to move them like a normal unit doesnt mean they are useless. It just means you have to think when you use him, just as it should be.

Also, a giant has flanks, so if a unit he is fighting is on his side or rear, remember your opponent gets the required combat resolution points.

IronBrother
03-07-2006, 18:19
Anything that has 5 wounds or more has a 90 degree LoS for charges. Which is what makes exalted daemons so good.

Festus
03-07-2006, 18:50
Hi


Anything that has 5 wounds or more has a 90 degree LoS for charges. Which is what makes exalted daemons so good.

Not true: A Strigoi can have 5W and still have 360 LoS. Anything higher than US1 which is not a flying unit or explicitly marked as a skirmisher has 90. US1 models have 90 while in units of r'n'f.

Greetings
Festus

Three Headed Monkey
04-07-2006, 12:22
Not true: A Strigoi can have 5W and still have 360° LoS. Anything higher than US1 which is not a flying unit or explicitly marked as a skirmisher has 90°. US1 models have 90° while in units of r'n'f.


In 'Characters and Line of Sight' under the Characters section of the rule book says :

"Characters on foot who have 5 or more Wounds in their original profile also have to follow the normal rules for arc of sight. This is because these characters are so massive and cumbersome"

So a strigoi would with 5 wounds would have a 90 degree arc of sight. Unit strength has nothing to do with LoS. Any model on the field has a 90 degree arc of sight unless otherwise noted. Such as for independent characters. So a single r'n'f model who is by himself (IE the rest of the unit is dead) will still have a 90 degree LoS. He doesnt become a skirmisher just because he is alone.

Reading through the rule book it seems the LoS rules are very ill defined, and spread out all over the place.

scavenseer
04-07-2006, 12:28
Mulus darkblade has 6 wounds when he drinks his potion and turns into a demon, he retains 360 sight.

McMullet
04-07-2006, 12:30
Yeah, but that's not his original profile, now, is it?

Three Headed Monkey
04-07-2006, 12:31
isnt malus darkblade mounted?

If so he should have 90 degree LoS. Unless he has some special rule I dont know about (not having read the rules for him and all).

mageith
04-07-2006, 13:09
In 'Characters and Line of Sight' under the Characters section of the rule book says :

"Characters on foot who have 5 or more Wounds in their original profile also have to follow the normal rules for arc of sight. This is because these characters are so massive and cumbersome"

Alas this is all changed. The new rules are on page 114 in the Chronicles and are available on line.

The giant used to have 360 degree line of sight too but that was changed very quickly in 6th edition.

This is the reason GW isn't printing any more errata and Q&A. Someone buys the book and thinks they have all the rules then someone comes along with a dog-eared Chronicles and slaps him down.



So a strigoi would with 5 wounds would have a 90 degree arc of sight. Unit strength has nothing to do with LoS. Any model on the field has a 90 degree arc of sight unless otherwise noted.

And the new noted is that single man-sized MODELS moving alone have 360 line of sight.



Such as for independent characters.
There are no longer such CHARACTER rules. The rules are now all based on MODELS and model size. There is also the designation of SKIRMISHER that overrides it all.



So a single r'n'f model who is by himself (IE the rest of the unit is dead) will still have a 90 degree LoS. He doesnt become a skirmisher just because he is alone.

:) Yes it does. If he's man-sized.



Reading through the rule book it seems the LoS rules are very ill defined, and spread out all over the place.
They are or were. That's why they were re-defined in the last Chronicles in 2004.

Mage Ith

Three Headed Monkey
04-07-2006, 13:21
Ah chronicles. making the rules lawyers job harder... I'll have to take a look. These clarifications make sense though. I'm glad they use the term mansize as ogres and trolls exist in unit type limbo between infantry and monster units.

I feel the major change the 7th edition rule book will bring is rules clarification. Well... Hopefully :)

mageith
04-07-2006, 13:30
Ah chronicles. making the rules lawyers job harder... I'll have to take a look. These clarifications make sense though. I'm glad they use the term mansize as ogres and trolls exist in unit type limbo between infantry and monster units.
Chronicles actually deals with that Limbo too. Ogre-sized have their own classification. The "Move as Monsters" which means they also don't have 360 LOS even if alone. However single Ogres pivot when moving but still have flanks.

Swarms* are ogre-sized but Flying Units (Not to be confused with Flying Monsters) on Ogre-sized bases are Skirmishers because the Skirmisher rule overrides.

*Skirmishing Swarms skirmish.

Three Headed Monkey
04-07-2006, 13:46
just read through it now. All clear. Making LoS and movement dependent on model size makes things so much clearer. I must stop my friends daemon princes from 360 charging!

MarcoPollo
06-07-2006, 01:03
Yeah that will help out for sure. But you may want to keep your mouth shut if it is a Khorne blessed demon.