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RTB01
24-01-2015, 20:56
Evening all,

Has anyone run them yet? Had any successes? Armaments?

I've picked some up but they're quite limited by what can be used due to model arrangements so what are people going for?

All the best,
Nick

Sinsigel
25-01-2015, 09:44
I just witnessed a friend of mine using a unit of 3 stormfiends at 2K yesterday.
The unit had ratling cannon, shock gauntlet and doom flayer.
After shooting the ratling cannon for a round or two, they were charged by 5 blightkings and wiped out.
They didn't really do much damage in return, although I should note blightkings are very durable and hard to hit.

While this friend of mine was a newbie, it did give me some thoughts on how to run stormfiends.
The thing is that stormfiend unit should pick A or B for greater efficiency.
If you want them to 'deep strike' and charge enemies in their rear, give them tunneler and fill the rest with close combat weapons.
(S6 armour-ignoring shock gauntlets, S7 doom flayers)

If you want them to be tough MI capable of both shooting and holding the line(against average foes), most of them should carry ranged weapons.
With a minimum sized unit of 3 stormfiends, I recommend 2 ratling cannons and one wind mortar.
Both are superb against blocks of infantry, knights, and even MI.
Two ratling cannons are Quick to Fire, so even charging against stormfiends will take considerable toll against the chargers.

Gmaleron
25-01-2015, 10:39
Played a small skirmish game of a thousand points where I tested 3 with rattling cannons, the amount of shots I got off some turns was insane thanks to them being 3d6 each!

Warrior of Naggaroth
25-01-2015, 13:32
Wouldn't that be illegal due to the 25% rare unit limit?

Gmaleron
25-01-2015, 14:55
25 percent of a thousand is 250 points, three of these guys are 235

RTB01
25-01-2015, 18:17
Three times 85 is 255 which is over the quarter limit...

I'll be running 3 with tunneler and two projectors and 3 with tunneller and dual cannons. With the kits its the only way I fancy using them. Alternately load up with combat weapons, tunnel and charge?...

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
27-01-2015, 19:00
The thing is that stormfiend unit should pick A or B for greater efficiency.
If you want them to 'deep strike' and charge enemies in their rear, give them tunneler and fill the rest with close combat weapons.
(S6 armour-ignoring shock gauntlets, S7 doom flayers)

If you want them to be tough MI capable of both shooting and holding the line(against average foes), most of them should carry ranged weapons.
With a minimum sized unit of 3 stormfiends, I recommend 2 ratling cannons and one wind mortar.
Both are superb against blocks of infantry, knights, and even MI.
Two ratling cannons are Quick to Fire, so even charging against stormfiends will take considerable toll against the chargers.

Trouble is that the kit only comes with one of each, so I imagine it will be problematic for most people to make redundant weapon options.

Brother Haephestus
27-01-2015, 19:23
Trouble is that the kit only comes with one of each, so I imagine it will be problematic for most people to make redundant weapon options. I would complain about having to buy two kits, but because I want to build a ranged and a deep strike unit (there's only so much shenannigans I want to play with magnets, and I mostly do that in 40K) so I will be able to get a "two and a spice unit" in each of them.

RTB01
17-02-2015, 21:48
I'm still building mine but going with two tunnel teams of 3, one goup fire, one ratlings. Has anyone used/ had any success or epic failures?...

Evil Hypnotist
19-02-2015, 08:35
I'll be having a fire team with 3 ratling cannons (9D6 str 5 shots with no modifiers for long range and multiple shots? yes please!) and then another with shock gauntlets for close combat. While tunnelling looked a great idea, you do lose out o a lot of attacking power as far as I can make out.

RTB01
21-02-2015, 05:04
Why do you lose out tunneling? They pop up roughly where you want, dont count as moving and can charge on arrival. Surely its made of win?! Only issue with triple teams is acquiring bits or buying three boxes :(

Voss
21-02-2015, 05:30
I'll be having a fire team with 3 ratling cannons (9D6 str 5 shots with no modifiers for long range and multiple shots? yes please!) and then another with shock gauntlets for close combat. While tunnelling looked a great idea, you do lose out o a lot of attacking power as far as I can make out.

For a gun team, yeah. For a melee team, absolutely not. The warpgrinders can lose out on attacks, but get auto-hits on their d3 instead, which can easily come out as a wash, and the invulnerable backfield deployment and nearly pin-point delivery system more than makes up for that. There is literally nothing an opponent can do to stop you getting into combat with them on arrival, bar completely ceding a massive area of the battlefield, and even the dice have poor odds of completely screwing up your plans.

boli
28-02-2015, 12:05
Getting some myself (12) and pretty much going to run them in min-sized tunneler units

E.g.

2 shock + tunneler
2 doomflayer + tunneler
2 warpfire + tunneler
2 ratlings + tunneler

IMHO *not* taking the tunneler means they are too expensive, even for the ranged!

Setting up warp fire traps getting behind move or fire infantry or flank charges from close combat... Just too tasty not to!

Lord Dan
28-02-2015, 22:54
I have to say, these guys are basically unusable under ETC guidelines. 1 pool choice each after the first model, out of 5 pool choices, when things like Hellpits, Doomwheels, and WLC cost 1 pool choice each?

No thanks.

RTB01
02-03-2015, 16:41
ETC guidelines? - What's that? Sounds like a rare occurance and a very specific setting so doesn't apply to majority?

If I understand what you're saying then 5 models within rares? If playing 2k you could run 3 fiends, doomwheel and cannon as your 5. They're such high points values I'm unsure how/ why you would run so many. Mine are running against Chaos Dwarfs this weekend can't wait!

Lord Dan
02-03-2015, 16:58
ETC guidelines? - What's that? Sounds like a rare occurance and a very specific setting so doesn't apply to majority?

It's one of the larger comp systems used in the US, probably second only to Swedish comp.

RTB01
03-03-2015, 05:39
Can you expand on what it entails/ stands for please?

Maetco
03-03-2015, 09:13
Can you expand on what it entails/ stands for please?

ETC = European Team Championships

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=127100

AkalaSpeaksFact
03-03-2015, 13:49
Killed Karl frank ascended in 2 turns with 3 shooting on the first turn and 2 shooting in the second turn.

Just take 3 with rattling cannons there is no need to get close with them.


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

Lord Dan
03-03-2015, 14:15
Can you expand on what it entails/ stands for please?


ETC = European Team Championships

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=127100

That might not be the most up-to-date version, but essentially Skaven have 5 "pool" choices, and a list of things in that pool that they are allowed to bring. Each Doomwheel is 1, each Warp Lightning Cannon is 1, your first HPA is 1 and your second is an addition 2, as well as several others.

They added the comp guidelines for Stormfiends and have ruled that each Stormfiend after the first will count as 1 pool choice, meaning, for instance, that a unit of 4 would count as 3 pool choices and two units of 3 would take up all 5 (meaning you couldn't take a HPA, WLC, Doomwheel, etc.).

forseer of fates
03-03-2015, 14:17
One of the few things the eternity king Is afraid of aswell. As for the comp systems, why play warhammer of u change it to the point where its not the same game.

boli
03-03-2015, 15:59
every time I see how powerful these actually are I am reminded of one simple scary fact.

85ppm; 255 for 1 unit; in RARE.

that's not a small investment in a *very* competitive part of the skaven force. that's 1 WLC one DW you will not be seeing on the battlefield to use Stormfiends

Are they powerful? Yes
Are they really *really* cool models? Hell Yes!
Are they priced in a range similar to the rest of the Skaven book? Yes
Is the Skaven Book Rare selection Priced Correctly? Subjective Answer - they are all slightly underpriced for their abilities *but* it will only ever be 25% of a Skaven Army

You can pretty much sum the Skaven Army into a few catergories

Stuff that will kill them:
Magic (Grey Seer)
Rare Stuff that is pretty dangerous

Stuff they will have to kill:
Chaff
Bulk

Stuff which may kill you:
Weapon Teams


Pretty much every complaint against skaven is "can;t kill their useless units fast enough" and "those rare choices kill me too much" adding in stormfiends only gives variety to the stuff that can kill you catergory but they are still taken out of rare... if they were special they will be auto-includes but taking them meaning leaving a hell pit at home - something similar.

RTB01
03-03-2015, 21:02
I understand comp systems to an extent but when in a standard list you could max have 2 units of stormfiends and they're a massive point sink, why do you need the extra restrictions on top? Considering the special slots of the army are all but useless, it seems odd to constrict something already heavily constricted. If playing a 2k game you can't even take 2 units of stormfiends...

Lord Dan
03-03-2015, 21:12
I understand comp systems to an extent but when in a standard list you could max have 2 units of stormfiends and they're a massive point sink, why do you need the extra restrictions on top? Considering the special slots of the army are all but useless, it seems odd to constrict something already heavily constricted. If playing a 2k game you can't even take 2 units of stormfiends...

This was my same line of thinking. It seems unnecessarily heavy-handed.

asura
07-03-2015, 11:58
Hi,
What do you guys think of the warpfire projectors on Stormfiends? How would you play them? On paper, it seems the "move or fire" rule is a constraint to make them efficient...

innerwolf
07-03-2015, 12:14
Hi,
What do you guys think of the warpfire projectors on Stormfiends? How would you play them? On paper, it seems the "move or fire" rule is a constraint to make them efficient...

With a single Warpgrinder you can make the whole unit emerge close to the enemy and devastate them with two templates in the same turn. I think it's a strong configuration.

Jator
07-03-2015, 13:07
I have been thinking about trying a unit of three Stormvermin with ratlings. My doubt is what to do with the Stormbanner. I'm wary about get rid of it against Dwarfs and DE (my usual foes, along with TK); without it the stormfiends won't get many chances to shoot. They still have 9d6 shoots, re-roll to hurt and are not affected by long distance, but im not sure if that's enough to compensate.

Thoughts?

RTB01
07-03-2015, 22:03
Played a 3.5k game today. Ran 3 with ratlings, 2 with warpfire and grinder. The tunnellers were unlucky but still did plenty damage. Them arriving backfield and ratlings to the front will cause a lot of problems. Ratlings are great and Im happy running both them and warpfire.


Just a shame thanquol exploded on casting skitterleap on 3 dice as his first spell of the game...

Rudra34
08-03-2015, 05:11
Just a shame thanquol exploded on casting skitterleap on 3 dice as his first spell of the game...

A fitting end for him. Killed by something completely unexpected and almost mundane.

asura
08-03-2015, 11:49
Thanks, so playing warpfire projectors Stormfiends is only efficient if they are along with Stormfiend using grinderfists (because warp-grinder weapon team seems not allowed)? Is there any other configuration?

RTB01
08-03-2015, 14:46
I don't understand your point about warp grinder teams...

I would only use warpfire projectors with a tunneller otherwise they'll take to long to position which is exacerbated by the fact they're move or fire. If I wasnt such a dakka freak I'd be tempted by tunnel and close combat weaps so they'd be in combat turn two

Lord Dan
08-03-2015, 15:00
In the final round of a tournament yesterday I had my Skaven square off against a similar Skaven list, except that my opponent was running 4 Stormfiends with ratling guns as opposed to the "standard" rare loadout (2 WLC, HPA, Doomwheel).

Let me say first off that those things are just stupidly powerful. 12D6 S5 shots that ignore most shooting penalties (and re-roll to wound? WTF?) is, at the risk of sounding rude, completely retarded. You might as well have them wield a gun that says: "Delete one unit from the battlefield." And that's exactly what happened - they pointed at my Hellpit turn 1 and blew him off the table with complete ease.

Their problem, and the reason I have trouble justifying their 350+ point pricetag, is that they're still T4 infantry with a 6+ armor save. Moreover, they skirmish, meaning they don't have Steadfast. They ended up getting run down when my unit of 6 Gutter Rutters flank charged them, inflicted 2 wounds, took one in return, an then broke them through combat resolution. Nom, nom, nom.

RTB01
08-03-2015, 15:09
I'm amazed your flanking gutter runners weren't blown to bits in honesty. They do murder things but are fragile and costly. What else was in both lists?

Borgomos
08-03-2015, 15:12
Lord Dan, to be fair, that combat could have gone sideways for your Gutter Runners.

I have yet to test them but apparently they are only a huge nuisance because of the Ratling Guns. What about a Grinder + Flamethrowers combo ?

RTB01
08-03-2015, 15:21
Also sounds like your hellpit was unlucky/ badly placed. Ratlings only have 18 inch range so could have stayed out of the way?

Borgomos
08-03-2015, 15:50
The Fiends are skirmishers, and the Hellpit has random movement. I can easily see a bad situation happening and your Hellpit getting exposed.

Lord Dan
08-03-2015, 15:51
I'm amazed your flanking gutter runners weren't blown to bits in honesty. They do murder things but are fragile and costly. What else was in both lists?
He had no reason to shoot an 108 point unit of Gutter Runners (which were in a woods on his turn, meaning they'd have been at -2 to hit) when he could have shot at my 285 point HPA.


Lord Dan, to be fair, that combat could have gone sideways for your Gutter Runners.
Of course it could have, but statistically I win that combat:

GR (3x2): 9 attacks, 3 hits (1.5 poison), 2.5 wounds, 2.08 after saves.
SF: 4 attacks, 2 hit, 1.6 wounds, 1.3 after saves. 1 stomp, .83 wounds, .69 after saves, for a total of 1.99 wounds.

So if wounds wash, I win with a flank and a charge, and he's testing at -2 Ld because he isn't Steadfast.



Also sounds like your hellpit was unlucky/ badly placed. Ratlings only have 18 inch range so could have stayed out of the way?
With a 6" move and an 18" range (and no move/fire penalty), they've got an effective range of 24". I actually baited him with my Hellpit, both because the alternative target would have been my unit of 40 Stormvermin and because his turning to face the Hellpit is what exposed his flank to my Gutter Runners.

RTB01
08-03-2015, 15:57
Why weren't the gutter runners blown to bits when charging? With quick to fire they should have murdered them?

Montegue
08-03-2015, 16:11
Why weren't the gutter runners blown to bits when charging? With quick to fire they should have murdered them?

He charged them in the flank...

RTB01
08-03-2015, 16:14
Still should've killed a couple and possible panic/ fear issues?...

Lord Dan
08-03-2015, 16:23
Still should've killed a couple and possible panic/ fear issues?...

You can't stand and shoot to the flank.

RTB01
08-03-2015, 16:35
That'd be why then :) I may have to get some runners as I got mullered by chaos dwarf artillery. Ikit blew himself up firing his warpfire thrower, cretin!

Lord Dan what was in your list?

Lord Dan
08-03-2015, 22:31
It was a fairly standard Skaven tournament build, save the fact that I actually prefer Clanrats to Slave bricks and I've found Rat Darts hurt more than they help:

Grey Seer, 4++, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Ruin
Warlord, Fellblade, Shield

Chieftan, BSB
Engineer, MR(3), Lv. 1
Engineer, Doomrocket, Lv. 1

40 Clanrats, Full Command, Shields
40 Clanrats, Full Command, Shields
40 Stormvermin, Full Command, Razor Standard
40 Slaves, Pawleader, Musician

6 Gutter Runners, Slings, Poison
6 Gutter Runners, Slings, Poison

WLC
WLC
Doomwheel
HPA

forseer of fates
08-03-2015, 23:03
These end time units are not very well balanced, apart from the undead stuff, the mortarchs and morghasts are pretty meh. Rerolling wounds is just craziness.

Borgomos
08-03-2015, 23:56
I wouldn't be so hard on End Times Skaven. The other stuff we got were very modest, average strength models(And that's a good thing tbh). The new Verminlords and Thanquol are just fine.

RTB01
09-03-2015, 06:35
Legal or not? Just thinking stormfiends can be used to deliver brass orb and characters to enemy back lines to go artillery bashing... Attach characters to fiends, tunnel, destroy. Can't see anything that says otherwise as characters can be left in reserve and attached to units.

Lord Dan
09-03-2015, 14:41
A nice thought, but Skitterleap will always be the best delivery system for the Brass Orb. You don't have to worry about when it'll show up, don't have to worry about getting it to where you want to go, and don't have to worry about your character getting sniped. Instead, you just point and click with a spell that goes off on a 5+.

RTB01
09-03-2015, 15:22
Last time i did that thanquol exploded, colour me cautious :)