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Decadence
11-02-2015, 21:40
I'm confused about how to start reading the End Times series, mostly because it's scattered across the GW 'army' books, the BL novels series, Gotrek and Felix and now Darkblade. I have Kinslayer right now, and the Return of Nagash novel is on its way. So, my questions are:

Should I read each GW End times books before reading the corresponding novel? Which is the 'full' version and do you 'spoil' one by reading the other?
Where do the G&F and Darkblade books fit in? Start, middle, end?

DarkChaplain
11-02-2015, 22:18
The "full" version is definitely the big lore book. The novels usually focus on a vital part of the events, rather than encompassing everything. The Return of Nagash, for example, leads up until Nagash actually returns, while The End Times: Nagash goes way beyond that.

I'd say read Phil Kelly's novella, Sigmar's Blood, as it is a prequel to The Return of Nagash, and the read TRoN before the armybook. I'd definitely put the novels before the big ones, and then get the big picture after the personal struggles.

Kinslayer, chronologically, plays after The Return of Nagash. Deathblade, the Malus Darkblade novel, ties into The Curse of Khaine.

dram
12-02-2015, 01:55
The short story The Bone Cage takes place between Sigmar's Blood and The Return of Nagash.

GrandmasterWang
18-02-2015, 01:58
Sigmars blood to start as others have said.

Novels first.. then source books for the main series is the way to do it.

As in, return of nagash then nagash source book, fall of altdorf then Glottkin sourcebook etc.



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Decadence
21-02-2015, 00:34
Thanks guys, just started Sigmars Blood

jrc_burgess
23-02-2015, 06:45
A summary for other new readers. I'm concentrating on the novels but I'll add the source books here too. Obviously these cannot be based on pure chronological order without chopping them up seeing as the novels are mostly much more narrow in scope than the source books (exception for Kaine), so the list is based on a recommended reading order rather than a strict timeline.

0 Sigmar's Blood
0.5 Bone Cage
1 Return of Nagash
2 Kinslayer
NAGASH SOURCEBOOK
3 Glottkin
GLOTTKIN SOURCEBOOK
4 Curse of Khaine
KHAINE SOURCEBOOK
5 Deathblade
6 Rise of the Horned Rat
THANQUOL SOURCEBOOK
? Slayer
? Archaon tie in novel (name currently unknown)
ARCHAON SOURCEBOOK

Entries with ? indicate that exact position is unclear but placement in the list is my guess of best reading order. To my knowledge there are no official short stories so far. Other tie-in novels/short stories may be included but have not been mentioned so far. Personally I'd love to see another Undead one seeing as how the Blood of Nagash series was a) excellent and b) cancelled before completion.

DarkChaplain
23-02-2015, 12:41
Wow. They are FINALLY releasing a few short stories for The End Times. Shortly before the final novel.

With Ice and Sword by Graham McNeill:


The End Times are coming. The north has fallen. Kislev, that proud nation that for centuries has stood as a bulwark between Sigmar’s Empire and the hordes of Chaos, is no more. Scattered refugees seek to survive in the icy wilderness, hunted by beastmen and Chaos Warriors. One such band is joined by a Knight of the Empire on a very important mission – to locate the Ice Queen, if she still lives, and deliver her to the Empire.

A gigantic bear fights side by side with the ice queen! The fight for Kislev is a massive smack down – think ice magic and a colossal bear against the pure powers of Chaos.

Marienburg's Stand by David Guymer

The End Times are coming. When death falls upon the free city of Marienburg, in the form of the hordes of Chaos commanded by the dread Glottkin, the fractious citizens of the town must rally together to hold the foe back. Unexpected aid, in the form of the vampire gangster Mundvard the Cruel, comes, but can the citizens of Marienburg accept it? Will they be damned by association with the vile undead, or will they forfeit their lives – and souls – to Chaos?

It’s a three-way knockdown, drag-out between humans, vampires, and the forces of Chaos. The three groups face off to stake their claim on the ill-fated Marienburg. If you liked The Fall of Altdorf, you cannot miss this prequel that gives you a never-before-seen look at the city’s total destruction.

Bride of Khaine by Graeme Lyon

Gotrek & Felix: Rememberers by David Guymer

The Siege of Naggarond by Sarah Cawkwell
(probably Valkia!)


The Archaon novel for TET V is apparently called "The Lord of the End Times", as per photos of the advertisement at the back of the Rise of the Horned Rat paperback. That title is the reason they changed Archaon: Lord of the End Times to Lord of Chaos.

jrc_burgess
24-02-2015, 00:31
An entire month of Horus Heresy stuff for no particular reason at Xmas vs a 5-day week of End Times stuff for the entire destruction of the Warhammer world as we know it.

Yup, that seems about right. Black Library really does treat fantasy like crap.

Still though, it sounds great and I can't wait.
I especially look forward to Bride of Khaine, assuming it's about Hellebron.

Kerrahn
24-02-2015, 16:15
A summary for other new readers. I'm concentrating on the novels but I'll add the source books here too. Obviously these cannot be based on pure chronological order without chopping them up seeing as the novels are mostly much more narrow in scope than the source books (exception for Kaine), so the list is based on a recommended reading order rather than a strict timeline.

0 Sigmar's Blood
0.5 Bone Cage
1 Return of Nagash
2 Kinslayer
NAGASH SOURCEBOOK
3 Glottkin
GLOTTKIN SOURCEBOOK
4 Curse of Khaine
KHAINE SOURCEBOOK
5 Deathblade
6 Thanquol
THANQUOL SOURCEBOOK
? Slayer
? Archaon tie in novel (name currently unknown)
ARCHAON SOURCEBOOK


You forgot Rise of the Horned Rat between 'Deathblade' and 'Thanquol'. And IMO I think Khaine was about as narrow in scope as the others as well, sure it spanned the length of the Khaine sourcebook, but everything was just from Malekith's perspective, even if he did hear about Malus Darkblade's fate and the fight between Hellebron and Morathi, because it also left out details like Allarielle becoming the new leader of the Wood Elves before she went to Malekith, and Araloth's adventures in the Realm of Chaos.

On a different note, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Archaon: Everchosen and Archaon: Lord of Chaos books are designed to tie into the inevitable novel released alongside the End Times: Archaon book. I suspected this when the End Times first started after I noticed Everchosen ended with only 3 of the Chaos treasures, and the release of Lord of Chaos just before the ET: Archaon book does seem to suggest this.

jrc_burgess
24-02-2015, 22:45
You forgot Rise of the Horned Rat between 'Deathblade' and 'Thanquol'.


Actually, I didn't forget, "6 Thanquol" really should say "Rise of the Horned Rat" as it was the novel before the Thanquol book, but I had forgotten the name and couldn't be bothered to look it up while I was posting. ;)
Now updated.

GrandmasterWang
24-02-2015, 23:28
Actually, I didn't forget, "6 Thanquol" really should say "Rise of the Horned Rat" as it was the novel before the Thanquol book, but I had forgotten the name and couldn't be bothered to look it up while I was posting. ;)
Now updated.

Great summary.

I might need to look at slotting in Kinslayer after I finish the Nagash sourcebook. .

So much end times goodness. .. so little time

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Dreadnok89
02-03-2015, 03:22
I messaged black library and they actually said kinslayer is after sigmars blood

shadowhawk2008
02-03-2015, 10:46
Wait... what? That makes no sense...

DarkChaplain
02-03-2015, 12:24
Kislev hadn't fallen by Sigmar's Blood, so it makes perfect sense, I believe. Nevermind that Vlad von Carstein only reappears at the very end of The Return of Nagash, which plays a while after Sigmar's Blood. Seeing how he has a role in Kinslayer, it must play after TRoN.

shadowhawk2008
02-03-2015, 16:31
Oh wait... I got that confused. I was thinking about the upcoming Slayer.

Dreadnok89
02-03-2015, 19:08
I was lost too guys. Im just stating what black library email said to me. I still am confused haha. I read sigmars blood, so should i do the return of nagash then slayer?

On a side note, i read the bone cage is after sigmars blood, however doesnt it get destroyed in sigmars blood?

jrc_burgess
03-03-2015, 04:03
I think you're mixing up Slayer and Kinslayer which are two seperate books. Kinslayer is released already and should be read after Return of Nagash (the Nagash tie in novel) but before the Nagash sourcebook. Slayer is then much later and should (probably, as it's not actually released yet so I can't be sure) be read after the Thanquol Sourcebook and before the Archaon tie in novel, whatever that will be called.
My list above shows this though it has a ? before it as I'm not 100% sure yet. I will also be updating the list to include the recent quick read releases once I have actually read them.

Dreadnok89
03-03-2015, 04:43
Thx jrc. I apologize, i did mean kinslayer. Ill find the email from black library. But i find it funny that the order you guys are saying makes more sense than the black library!