PDA

View Full Version : That is a really good wooden cart you have...



made_of_metal
14-06-2005, 02:23
I was wondering about chariots. These seem to make little sense in how they work for the rules. There speed and manoverablitly are good but they hit really hard and are rather tough (unless hit by S7 of course).
This just does not seem right. They were a machine that stopped being used for a reason (i believe cause cavalry was just much better). I miss the old rule where you could just shoot the horse/wolf/boar and the thing would no longer be a real threat. Now it seems to take a couple rounds just to put a dent in it, as well not affecting its combat abilities.
Also the cheap points cost of many chariots (the goblin ones come to mind) but never a real reduction in thier hitting power strikes me as odd.
Has anyone else noticed this or feels the same?
Also if you have counter points go right ahead :D

samw
14-06-2005, 02:45
1) A single wound from a cannon or dwarven bolt-thrower can kill them. A stone thrower also has a decent chance.

2) You have to be very lucky to break a unit on the charg with only one, unsupported, chariot. In second rounds of combat it is the chariot that will almost certainly break and run.

3) They can't march.

4) The preferred weapon of choice for many characters now is a great weapon. Hence a fair few armies have models that are st7 and auto-kill chariots. A detroyed chariot give usually an instant +4 to CR for it's opponent, cancelling any good its charge did if used in support.

made_of_metal
14-06-2005, 03:01
There are methodes that work well. I have used them myself. With both empire and lizardmen I have the means to kill them as they are.
I guess what i was trying to get across is that they are used more like battering rams then what a chariots should be. I would like to see any chariot that would actually survive running into spearmen head on.
I think that they need to be reworked to actually work like a chariot. They should hit and run as well as be good stable firing platforms (unfortunatly that would never really work with how the rules are for shooting).
The way there are now is more like an elephant. Think, a chariot gets just as strong and as many impact hits as a steggadon. Seems too much to me.

They do fit in the game ok rule wise and what they provide, i just find they don't fit as a chariot.

Neknoh
14-06-2005, 12:41
...

Why not simply have the Chariots mak an automatic Overrun move, even when not destroying units, but taking 1 strength X hit per rank it passes.

X is the Toughness of the opposite unit.


It would work like this then:

Chariot charges a unit of Empire Swordsmen, it does damage with its impact hits and attacks, it now rolls 3 D6 and does a normal Overrun move, measuring from the point where the Chariot now is standing.

The Swordsmen have 4 Ranks, thus, the Chariot suffers 4 Strength 3 hits (due to the Toughness of the Swordsmen).

Note: Impact hits and Overrun can only be caused to the original unit, if the Chariot runs into another unit, it looses these bonuses and can only fight using the stats of the drivers and Steeds.


Well... what do you think?

Avian
14-06-2005, 12:59
Has anyone else noticed this or feels the same?
Also if you have counter points go right ahead :D
Obviously chariots in the Warhammer World works and are constructed differently from those in our world.
The old rules were damn clunky to use and I like these much better. :)

Lord Lucifer
14-06-2005, 13:47
Play Warhammer Ancient Battles.
Chariots are much softer.



That and the game rocks ;)

Cheers
-Luci :)

gortexgunnerson
14-06-2005, 14:46
I think they are already quite powerful and hence most armies need to include an anti chariot element! As a dwarf player i love to see chariots on the other side. But if you put them back to histirical role of taxi/firing base they would be seriously underpowered as you might get 1 or 2 shots off per turn from an expensive unit. and if you made them cheap in points then the unit would be so expensive to buy the models that noone but staff would be albe to buy them

made_of_metal
14-06-2005, 20:56
I have heard that the WAB chariots are much softer and fit the idea of a chariot better. Also isn't there something about units opening ranks so the chariots just passes right by? That might just be the crazy talking.

Lord Lucifer
15-06-2005, 02:52
No, Drilled units in Warhammer Ancients can open up a lane in their ranks to allow the chariot to pass.
And the Chariots are softer and do fit the idea better