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druchii
29-06-2006, 08:42
Yes.
I know you all love them.
So do I.
Pointy hats included.

Since I've been playing fantasy I've always picked and played some pretty hard-core armies, with very competitive schemes(All knight bretons, Skeleton/necromancer undead).

I've never honestly believed in creating an army based around an opponent, but I DO believe in making an army that my opponent MUST make an army list to specifically counter mine.

Most of the time, the people who I play get to mop the floor, but occassionally I'll run into another person with my own unique take on a certain army (like my best friend who plays an undivided chaos horde, with the immune to psych banner) and I really have a fun game.

I understand the Chaos Dwarves ARE NOT one of these armies, and that's ok. They're going to be my army I use to play newer people, people I want to have fun with (who won't bring a "competitive" army, either because they can't, or don't play that style).

My main questions:
Can chaos dwarves effectively take down "Big, scary" targets? Dragons, steam tanks, giants(not so much) shaggoths, etc?

My initial glance over the list says no. My rockets and earthshakers are, well, shaky at best (a 20 inch move, rather diagonally doesn't help matters, much), and I'd feel kinda bad taking more than four pieces in a 2k army.

Can chaos dwarves be mobile with the greenskins?

Kinda, is what I see. The bull centaurs are a neat idea, but I've never fancied small units of elite troops, I usually get them killed. I also see them as direct competition for my artillery, as I tend to take HUGE core selections (often in excess of 1200 pts/2000) I don't think I'll have room for both a wide smattering of centaurs AND cannons. I'm also adverse to the centaurs, because I've already got a TON of cavalry in my Bret army.

I'll be posting a corresponding post in the army list forums, and I'd love any input.

D

ebolatheripe
30-06-2006, 08:29
A Chaos Dwarf army actually has quite a few ways of dealing with large monsters. A Chaos Dwarf Lord on a great Taurus, Bull Centaur Lord, Magic, large mobs of Sneaky Gits and large Bull Centaur units are very effective against monsters. You can't do it with any other artillery other than Bolt Throwers. You just don't have an obvious answer like an Empire Cannon.

When using Green Skins, a good trick is to have them move at the same rate as your Dwarves until you need the extra movement. I swear most of the time your opponent will forget they can move as fast as they can and it really messes up there plans when you reveal it.

Autobot HQ
30-06-2006, 11:08
Bolt throwers are your friend though at only 30pts a pop :eek: 3 of them will only set you back 90pts and is very good at dealing with big gribblies

gortexgunnerson
30-06-2006, 14:33
Choas dwarfs are an incredable powerful army, taken them as your soft army is a bit of a joke. They have access to some of the best artillery in the game at a cheaper cost. By the hints in your post on army comp and artillery (~4 pieces) I'm guessing you'll end up with a list that looks a bit like

2 Earthshakers
Death rocket
2 bolts
several units of blunderbuses
block or 2 of axemen
2 units of 10 wolf riders
Couple of defensive scroll cadies

Hammer your oppenet with earth shakers halving their move and preventing the use of missile fire as your blocks advance, blunderbus, then engage.

This is a "competetive" list that will smash all those newbies without them ever coming close to threatening your army.

If you want to play an army for fun and a bit of a laugh, especially if your playing in inexperienced players why does your army need to be effective? If your going to teach these people and have fun take something with a bit of everything and very little magic or shooting as those are elements which can win a game without the other person being involved.

(Edit) Just looked in the army list section and think I was pretty close with my guess army lol

ebolatheripe
30-06-2006, 19:01
WARNING: User of two Earthshaker Cannons may result in loss of friends, accusations of power-gaming, Cheesiness, liver infections and diarea.

Freak Ona Leash
30-06-2006, 19:12
WARNING: User of two Earthshaker Cannons may result in loss of friends, accusations of power-gaming, Cheesiness, liver infections and diarea.
Eh? I played against a CD army with an Earthskaer. Sure it was only one of them but it really didnt stick out as particularly good. I think it killed all in all four Dwarf Warriors with shields and kill a Bolt Thrower crew man. What really got me were his Blunderbusses. Ripped open a unit of Longbeards and a unit of Warriors but good. Then the mob of Hobbos(hob-goblins. How i hate them...) and his unmounted Lord (cannon&two units of thunderers+Great Taurus=Sausage grinder) slaughtered the remnants. If you want to make a Power-gaming list, go with a lot of Blunderbusses and Hobbos I guess. Bull Centaurs didnt strike me as particularly nice either, though he only had one unit. He charged them and his Wolf boyz towards my artillery and thunderers. The result wasnt pretty. So, I suggest a primarily "Advance with Blunderbusses and Hobbos. Shoot with Blunders when in range. Mob with Hobbos. Flank with Wolf or Bulls if you take them. Lord on Flying Cow of Doom can be used to flank as well and a Lord of some kind is certainly needed to bolster Hobbo leadership.

ebolatheripe
30-06-2006, 20:05
Against most armies, one Earthshaker is annoying because it can affect the movement of a few units. Two Earthshakers and your opponents army will barely be able to move at all, and people don't like that. It's affect on unit movement is more important than it's killing power. Dwarves would probably be least affected by it because no Dwarf army is going to try to quickly outflank you or use speed to begin with.

Blunderbussers are very useful, but most units of heavy calvary can smash them pretty easily. Against Dwarves Blunderbusses work very well, but some other army's....... not so much.

Sambojin
02-07-2006, 09:24
The chaos dwarf list comes from the days when points weren't really well worked out (as though they are now). This gives you a few absolute bargains in the list. Here's just a few:

1: Ld 10 wizard lord. At a good price, so you really dont lose anything by going magic heavy. Except the lack of magic items.

2: Ld 10 hero. 60pts of pure, unadulterated, hatted goodness. You wont find a bargain like this in any other list, and since CD dont have bugger all magic items to equip him with anyway, it doesnt hurt to have your force led by this guy. Ld 9 sorceror isnt bad either, and a super cheap gobbo or hitty bull centaur. CD probably have the best allround hero selection.

3: The already mentioned, much despised artillery. You can stop half an army going very far, rocket them to death or just fill them full of spears. The bolt throwers are even better than the O+G ones (and they're the best thing since sliced bread). Every bit of artillery is cheap and useful.

4: Hobgoblins. Cheap infantry led by cheap ld 9-10 characters does wonders. Its the best of both worlds, letting you out horde skaven and O+G to a degree. While the wolf riders are expensive per unit, with the high ld you have around and a 4+ save, a unit will usually make it where you want. Also great for screening. Hobs are like gobbos, only better, greener and meaner.

5: Bull centaurs. They may only get a 3+ (5+ when using GW) save, but they dish out a good whack of damage(2S6), and move as far as top of the line cav. If you take one unit, get another and some wolf boyz and they'll do wonders. They're not as good chosen chaos/grails, but at half the points cost, they rip considering. Also they have the ability to put a good combat character in there if you want, not to mention the obligatory War Banner.

6: Sneaky gits. Not spectacular in combat, but its useful to know that if they hold the enemy will be putting up with a ridiculous amount of poisioned attacks next turn.

7: Chaos Dwarfs. Since you have to take them anyway, its good to see you can kit them out. Either cheap and hard, hitty or shooty. They're all good.

I know I just covered 90% of the list there, but there's really that many bargains in the list. You can play a limited attacking roll with centaurs/monsters in the army, but they're really more suited to the infantry horde style. Lots of numbers, lot of leadership and a big whack of shooting. Damn hard to beat them really.

washout
06-07-2006, 08:13
Are CD going to be in 7th edition? Or will they get dropped? I really want to start collecting the army but have the feeling they will not have any rules to play with.

flagu
06-07-2006, 20:11
Well. List from "Ravening Hordes" is leagal, even edition change. Unitil CD get's their own book.

ebolatheripe
06-07-2006, 20:13
Are CD going to be in 7th edition? Or will they get dropped? I really want to start collecting the army but have the feeling they will not have any rules to play with.

Games-Workshop recently released a ruling invalidating the use of armies from the Storm of Chaos book for UK Grand Tournaments and validating Chaos Dwarves and Dogs of War. And Chaos Dwarves have a lot of new referencing in novels and Oger Kingdoms book. They also released three Chaos Dwarves as crew for the hell cannon. They haven't announced there intentions yet other than saying CD wher not a top priority right now, but all indications say yes they will be getting a book eventually. Hopefully they will be getting some kind of update soon after 7th edition comes out. Until then the rules can be downloaded from the GW web sight.

Festus
06-07-2006, 20:40
Hi

Sambojin has a few points there :)

But TBH, I despise BCs, and I only play them in *very* friendly games. But you cannot have too many Hobgob Wolfboyz... :D

What he is missing though, i s the bad points of the CDs list:

No skirmishers, not one.
No scouts whatsoever (heck, even Dwarfs have two different choices in this field).
No real heavy Cavalry (in an Edition of WHFB dubbed Cavalryhammer by the players :( )
Not many Magic Itmes, and many of those are stupid or overcosted (I usually only use the Armour of Gazrakh - 1+AS, apart from the common ones: Enchanted Shield, DMS and WarBanner).
They are Dwarfs without the Boni (no renlentless for CDs) but with the Vulnerabilities (Dwarfgouger).

On a tactical Note: The main Tactic against infantry armies is the synergy between Blunderbusses and the Earthshaker: Make them move slower, so that you can mow them down with yout scrap-gun.
Against fast armies, deploy to defend: Your CD Warriors and your BBs are Dwarf Warriors still: T4, Heavy Armour (Shield) and Ld9 basic!

Your Earthshaker is the most resilient WarMachine (or was it until the recent Dwarf book): 3 Crew with t4 and Heavy Armour, Ws4 and Ld9! What else do you need to see oof those pesky flyers or skirmishers.

Game on, Hashut!
Greetings
Festus

Sambojin
07-07-2006, 08:20
To show if the CD list is relevent, check page 31 of the "Warhammer Starter Set" thread in the rumors section. For a bit of time, you can get a 1400pt army for $85AUS and a pretty variable one for double that. The only units you'll be missing are bolt throwers, O+G, bullcentaurs and maybe one or two others. If you take up chaos dwarfs, you'll probably have to get good at making hats anyway, so for a bargain price you can get: an army, armybook, the rules, accessories and a box to move your army in.

CD will be officially the cheapest army to start to play with as of the release of 7th edition, and is an easy cross-over army from either dwarfs or O+G. With a still relevent (and "competitve") armybook, good variability (horde, shooty, med-cav or magic) the outlook for CD has just got a whole lot brighter.