PDA

View Full Version : Wand of Whimsy and Magical Weapon



Groza
22-02-2015, 23:30
So if I give a Lord of Change the wand of whimsy and charge it up with spells and then throw him in combat can I use a different magical weapon (for example sword of swift slaying) and still benefit from the bonus to STR and ATK?

furrie
23-02-2015, 06:55
I don't know the exact wording of the wand, but there is still a lot of debat about have multiple magical weapons and the continueing affects of magic weapons. So there is no clear answer, its best to either ask the to or discuss it with your group

Groza
23-02-2015, 14:54
Whenever the bearer successfully casts or dispels a spell, roll a D 6 - the Wand of Whimsy gains a charge on a roll of 5 +. The Wand of Whimsy grants the bearer a bonus to both Strength and Attacks equal to the number of charges.
Now that I read it again it is pretty clear that it doesn't work because it says "the wand of whimsy grants" which would probably mean he has to use it in combat?
It could still be interpreted as just a passive buff though but it's pretty clear that it was not the intention.
It's a shame cause I really can't find a way to make a LoC worthwhile.

aprilmanha
23-02-2015, 15:13
If its a trinket then it would combine, if its a weapon, then you need to be using the weapon to gain its bonuses, and you cannot use 2 weapons at once so no combining effects.

Micalovits
23-02-2015, 15:25
You can actually gain the effect from more than one magic weapon, depending on which one as they are worded differently.
As a example we can look at the Giant blade and Sword of Bloodshed from the Core section.
The giant blade has the following text: "Close combat attacks made with this weapon are resolved at +3 strength" This is pretty clear, you have to attack with this weapon to gain any benefit from it, and it only affects attacks.
The Sword of Bloodshed however has a different wording: "The wielder has +3 attacks" This means that you gain this benefit even if you attack with a different weapon(which you normally can't due to the "i am using this one" rule)
As such, the wand of whimsy will grant you more attacks and strength even though you are attacking with a different weapon, such as the sword of striking for +1 to hit.

This is of course only when going with the rules as written... If you go RAI most people would argue, understandably, that you will only be able to gain the effect from one of them

theunwantedbeing
23-02-2015, 15:54
Yes, you can benefit from both because the rules are written really badly.

Vulgarsty
25-02-2015, 22:57
You can actually gain the effect from more than one magic weapon, depending on which one as they are worded differently.
As a example we can look at the Giant blade and Sword of Bloodshed from the Core section.
The giant blade has the following text: "Close combat attacks made with this weapon are resolved at +3 strength" This is pretty clear, you have to attack with this weapon to gain any benefit from it, and it only affects attacks.
The Sword of Bloodshed however has a different wording: "The wielder has +3 attacks" This means that you gain this benefit even if you attack with a different weapon(which you normally can't due to the "i am using this one" rule)
As such, the wand of whimsy will grant you more attacks and strength even though you are attacking with a different weapon, such as the sword of striking for +1 to hit.

This is of course only when going with the rules as written... If you go RAI most people would argue, understandably, that you will only be able to gain the effect from one of them

I agree with your analysis of the Giant Blade, but disagree with your interpretation of the Sword of Bloodshed

A general legal principle is that one should use the ordinary everyday meaning of words, according to the online Cambridge dictionary (definitions used below)

"bearer" is clear - you simply have to carry the item on you (a person (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/person_1) whose job (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/job) is to carry (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/carry) something)
"wield" however clearly means actively using the item (to hold (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/hold) a weapon (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/weapon) or tool (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/tool) and look (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/look) as if you are going to use it)

this explains why the sword of swift slaying (which grants the bearer ASF is popular with Bretts who always have a lance, and MUST always use the lance on the charge)

Whether as theunwantedbeing being implies, that is the intention, is moot. If the rule writers had a track record of precision and were renowned for their mastery of English, I would accept this was exactly what they intended. Because there are so consistently cack-handed, I reckon they just thought these terms were interchangeable and had an identical meaning when they clearly do not.

Groza
25-02-2015, 23:29
So the overall consensus is that this, or any use of magical weapons in a similar fashion, is not intended but "legal" insofar as following the rules as written goes.

mhsellwood
26-02-2015, 23:02
Does the Wand of Whimsy fall into the Weapons category? If it does then you cannot purchase another magic weapon. So whether you could carry two magical weapons and gain the benefit of both is surely not worth discussing?

On the other hand if it is not a Magic Weapon item then I would argue that you can purchase a magic weapon and wield that. The item grants effectively a passive buff. As an example the beastman Jagged Dagger operates off killed models in close combat but nowhere does it state it is a weapon itself and is purchased as an Arcane item. In fact the FAQ specifically states it is not a magic weapon. So I can use the rules from the jagged dagger and rock a magic weapon.

What is the exact description of the item, and does the Daemon Book clarify how Daemonic Gifts interact with the Main Rulebook items?

Groza
27-02-2015, 00:13
Does the Wand of Whimsy fall into the Weapons category? If it does then you cannot purchase another magic weapon. So whether you could carry two magical weapons and gain the benefit of both is surely not worth discussing?

It is a weapon but you can still have it and other magical weapons. It is purchased as a lesser gift and you can have two lesser gifts. So you can trade a lesser gift roll for a wand of whimsy and another magical weapon from the BRB of up to 25pts. The BRB states that in situations where a model carries two different magical weapons it needs to choose which one it will use at the start of each combat phase.