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View Full Version : 3000pt "take-all-comers" Tzeentch Legion of Chaos army, for critique



Fazhak
28-02-2015, 20:37
Hey all,

I'm working on the following and it seems to be shaping up well. Given the potential transition to joint Chaos gameplay, I decided to simply accept that possibility and begin construction of a Legions army. Thus far, it seems fairly strong. Nonetheless, I wanted to submit it for your collective consideration, to see what areas might yet be improved.

I've gone a bit "fluff" here, as I decided that if I am must play a joint Chaos army, it will at least be one that is fun. As such, I went mono-themed and dedicated to Tzeentch... so that, of course, I could let my opponent know that everything he or she does during a game was, "just as planned."

Given this decision, I understand that I'm willfully choosing to not avail myself of strong options like the Beasts of Nurgle, the Skullcannons of Khorne, etc. However, I'm hopeful that the army is still feasible against a variety of opponents, as it is quite quick to the fight and very resilient.

The Beastmen characters go in the Bestigor Herd unit, while the Exalted Heroes go in the unit of Chaos Warriors. Magic is used primarily to buff each such unit via the Lores of Metal and Beasts, respectively. I find that buff spells are often allowed to pass without dispel, as the opponent is more concerned about massive damage spells. This allows me to charge by turn two with units that either have T5 (Bestigor Herd) or 1+ armor saves (Chaos Warriors).

Thanks to its banner, the Bestigor Herd, when "properly" buffed, ignores up to a 2+ armor save. Combined with Stubborn, I try to place it opposing any oncoming cavalry. The Chaos Warriors can grind out most things, especially when buffed by the Lore of Metal. My two main combat heroes, the Wargor and the Exalted Hero (non-BSB) each have 3+ ward saves and solid Toughness, so they've consistently survived their required challenges.

Depending on the opponent, I can either rank both blocks as hordes or in ranks of seven across and five deep (prior to characters). This does mean that I have two blocks of infantry worth over one thousand points each. I am aware of the danger of Pit of Shades, Purple Sun, etc. However, such seems to be an almost inescapable danger every ranked army faces; it appears to me as a condition of the environment. With two level four Wizards available for dispelling, I've thus far seen little need to discredit ranked infantry blocks out-of-hand. Indeed, years of playing Beastmen have made me rather partial to the same.

Three units of scouting Harpies clear up most war machines for me, while the "missile" solo Razorgor Herds guard my flanks and later help combat my opponent's infantry spellcasters. The unit of Pink Horrors is there perhaps for theme, but consistently helps defend the flanks and provides a limited ranged attack option via the Lore of Tzeentch.

I've gone back and forth on the Lord of Change; I realize I could perhaps do just as well with a Daemon of Prince of Tzeentch. However, given the theme, it seems appropriate. As it is, the Greater Daemon flies to threaten my opponent's flanks, while staying within range to buff the unit of Chaos Warriors (if not, also, the Bestigor Herd). That flexibility alone seems helpful.

I look forward to your constructive feedback. Here's the list:

LORDS
Lord of Change
* Level 4 Wizard w/ Lore of Metal

Great Bray-Shaman
* Mark of Tzeentch
* Level 4 Wizard w/ Lore of Beasts
* Gift of Chaos: Gnarled Hide
* Talisman: Talisman of Endurance
* Enchanted Item: Crown of Command

HEROES
Exalted Hero
* Mark of Tzeentch
* Battle Standard Bearer
* Magic Standard: Blasted Standard
* Chaos Mutations & Powers: Scaled Skin
* Shield

Exalted Hero
* Mark of Tzeentch
* Chaos Mutations & Powers: Third Eye of Tzeentch
* Talisman: Talisman of Preservation
* Shield

Wargor
* Mark of Tzeentch
* Magic Armor: Armor of Destiny
* Great Weapon

SPECIAL
Bestigor Herd x 35
* Mark of Tzeentch
* Full Command
* Magic Standard: Razor Standard

Razorgor Herd x 1

Razorgor Herd x 1

Harpies x 5
* Scouts

Harpies x 5
* Scouts

Harpies x 5
* Scouts

CORE
Chaos Warriors x 35
* Mark of Tzeentch
* Full Command
* Magic Standard: Banner of Swiftness
* Shields

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch x 10
* Full Command


I look forward to your feedback, thoughts, and conversation! :)

Fazhak
01-03-2015, 04:11
One question I have is whether I might benefit from taking each of the blocks down to thirty (with some other minor modifications to ensure Core requirements), in order to gain a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch.

Does anyone have experience with the Burning Chariot? Is it helpful? Is it worth reducing two blocks to thirty?

Any constructive thoughts on the Burning Chariot's contributions?

Groza
01-03-2015, 11:07
This is an interesting list.
I don't have any input as I've never ran anything similar but I'd like to know how it does on the battlefield, especially against a spread out army.

daftpunkevo
02-03-2015, 18:12
Should be fun, at least this list not rely on the OP core horror spam + Bray shaman item that gives you 12PD each turn...

Fazhak
02-03-2015, 22:34
First and foremost, thank you for your time and comments. I appreciate the conversation!

Regarding the Pink Horror/Shard of the Herdstone lists, I am aware of their existence, but such just seems (for lack of a better term) "too easy" a solution. I view them as similar to the Doombull/Blackened Plate and Trolls "deathstar" unit: each is a bit too obvious to be really creative and fun. Now, I'll probably try both of the above at some point, just to see how it runs, but I don't think I'd want "my" army to built around either concept, as neither is really that personalized or interesting. I like to have themed armies tailored to my own tastes, so that the lists are both (hopefully) competitive and at least somewhat creative.

Regarding spread out deployment situations, my experience is that fewer lists are doing such (dwarves and some versions of elves being the notable exceptions). "Deathstar" point denial types are encountered far more frequently, it seems to me. Nonetheless, I agree that such can be and have been difficult match-ups for this list and others like it.

The Harpies really help with such things. They hunt down the war machines, provide cover, and make simple nuisances of themselves. Terrain placement, prior to deployment, I find to likewise be key to winning such match-ups. I do my best to place as many walls and other types of cover as possible in play. While it does sometimes penalize my larger blocks of infantry, the cover is beneficial during the first turn slog to the opponent's gun line, archers, or other ranged threats.

In the case of spread out "MSU" charger types, rather than ranged types, I find that few can really sustain themselves against my buffed infantry, even if they manage flank charges. The Chaos Warriors hopefully will have their 1+ armor save and 5+ ward save, with banners and other static bonuses, even if they lose their rank bonus at resolution. Even heavy cavalry has a difficulty beating that decisively. If the Chaos Warriors don't break, most flankers will get fewer bonuses on the next round of combat, enabling the Chaos Warriors to thrash them. As for the Bestigor Herd, they re-roll to Hit, ignore most armor saves, and ultimately are Stubborn. A MSU charger army will either engage the blocks if it wants points, or it will cede terrain to my units early on in the game. If the latter, my multiple Wizards have enough magic to focus on small units one at a time, earning me victory points and reducing countercharge threats.

Nonetheless, I am aware that such is a potential area of growth for the army, hence my interest in the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch. I am curious if slightly leaner blocks (down to thirty each), in order to include a Burning Chariot, might not be even more competitive.

Anyway, hope that helps address the very interesting and useful question. Did I respond to your concern? Any further thoughts?

Fazhak
02-03-2015, 22:36
Also, should you and others be interested, I posted my take on a 3000pt Slaanesh Legion of Chaos army here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?406193-3000pt-quot-take-all-comers-quot-Slaanesh-Legion-of-Chaos-army-for-critique. If you'd be up for looking it over and sharing your thoughts, I certainly appreciate the constructive feedback. Thanks, again, for the ongoing conversation! :)

In Dark Trees
06-03-2015, 03:43
I play a magic-heavy Beastmen list (never at such a high points value though) and really worry about this list's ability to cope with lists that refuse to engage it on its terms. By that I mean the kind of lists I play: mobile lists with lots of small, expendable, and speedy units. The harpies and razorgors give the list some much-needed flexibility but--ultimately--this list is about two big bricks of infantry slogging their way across the battlefield. Either they'll reach the enemy or they won't. The Warriors, while durable, aren't especially fearsome and will not be likely to break any durable opposition quickly. The Bestigors are hitty but suffer from the fact that they're the primary threat in the list: remove them and it is rendered toothless. And Bestigors are far from resilient. I think adding chariots, knights, a disc-riding hero, or the Burning Chariot would all give the list more punch and dynamism.